Joe Biden is reportedly 'planning first major tax hike in almost 30 years'

[ding]

Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is.

The income tax is based on the fact that the middle class needs to work and will work as long as possible.

Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer

Moving on up…

www.cato.org

.

It's not shrinking the upper end of the middle class is growing and those people are still working for their money and are still paying income tax.

View attachment 469183

Irrelevant.

all that shows is the decrease in lower income households is being offset by the increase on households with 100K or more of income.

And FYI households with over 100K in income pay higher income taxes than the households making 50K.

Which is why the income tax is the government's preferred revenue generator.

It's not irrelevant to your original assertion which was, "Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is."

It is where the money is. It has always been where the money is and FYI a household with 100K in income is middle class

You'd do anything not to admit you were wrong.

I'm not

Sure you are wrong. The middle class is not where the money is at.

 

[ding]

Brad Schiller: The middle class isn’t shrinking | The Daily World

By Brad Schiller

www.thedailyworld.com

The point was about where the tax money is at.

 

[ding]

Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is.

The income tax is based on the fact that the middle class needs to work and will work as long as possible.

Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer

Moving on up…

www.cato.org

.

It's not shrinking the upper end of the middle class is growing and those people are still working for their money and are still paying income tax.

View attachment 469183

Irrelevant.

all that shows is the decrease in lower income households is being offset by the increase on households with 100K or more of income.

And FYI households with over 100K in income pay higher income taxes than the households making 50K.

Which is why the income tax is the government's preferred revenue generator.

It's not irrelevant to your original assertion which was, "Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is."

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

dqydj.com

Look at this chart and tell me is you see any negative changes in any of the income percentiles.

You'll notice the the percentiles between the 20th and 80th percentiles ( the middle class) there has been no negative percentage change therefore the middle class is not shrinking

That wasn't the point I was contesting.

 

[task0778]

Still ... no conserative plan to pay off the national debt? ...

First, you gotta get to the point where you aren't increasing the debt, i.e., balance the budget. Where in this era of spend big or go home isn't likely to happen. There was a time after WWII when Americans had a sense of responsibility to pay their debts, and they did so. Alas, today that sense of responsibility is pretty much gone; fiscal conservatives believe it is the right thing to do so that future generations are not burdened by our debts, but they are outnumbered by the spendthrifts in both parties who buy votes with IOUs. And I do not give Trump a pass here, his tax cuts did help get the economy get stronger. But he didn't cut spending, and part of the reason for that was some in his own party wanted to spend more to get re-elected. Not as much spending as the democrats wanted to do though. Remember the $3.4 trillion COVID Bill they passed?

Let's be honest here, neither party has the high moral ground in this instance. But it is the democrats who want to overspend far too much money to reach their political priorities. They don't give a flyin' **** about the debt, they think money can be printed or created out of thin air with no future consequences. They aren't going to raise taxes to pay off the debt or balance the budget, they're doing it so they can spend even more money, and the sad fact is that fiscal sanity begins with controlling and cutting your spending. At least the GOP is half-ass trying to do that.

 

[Blues Man]

Brad Schiller: The middle class isn’t shrinking | The Daily World

By Brad Schiller

www.thedailyworld.com

The point was about where the tax money is at.

No it's where the income that is taxed is at.

 

[Blues Man]

Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is.

The income tax is based on the fact that the middle class needs to work and will work as long as possible.

Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer

Moving on up…

www.cato.org

.

It's not shrinking the upper end of the middle class is growing and those people are still working for their money and are still paying income tax.

View attachment 469183

Irrelevant.

all that shows is the decrease in lower income households is being offset by the increase on households with 100K or more of income.

And FYI households with over 100K in income pay higher income taxes than the households making 50K.

Which is why the income tax is the government's preferred revenue generator.

It's not irrelevant to your original assertion which was, "Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is."

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

dqydj.com

Look at this chart and tell me is you see any negative changes in any of the income percentiles.

You'll notice the the percentiles between the 20th and 80th percentiles ( the middle class) there has been no negative percentage change therefore the middle class is not shrinking

That wasn't the point I was contesting.

So now you see that the middle class in increasing not decreasing and you're going to change your arguments.

your usual modus operandi

 

[ding]

Brad Schiller: The middle class isn’t shrinking | The Daily World

By Brad Schiller

www.thedailyworld.com

The point was about where the tax money is at.

No it's where the income that is taxed is at.

So you statement that, " Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is" was referring to income and not tax revenue?

 

[Blues Man]

Brad Schiller: The middle class isn’t shrinking | The Daily World

By Brad Schiller

www.thedailyworld.com

The point was about where the tax money is at.

No it's where the income that is taxed is at.

So you statement that, " Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is" was referring to income and not tax revenue?

Take it anyway you want.

 

[ding]

Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is.

The income tax is based on the fact that the middle class needs to work and will work as long as possible.

Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer

Moving on up…

www.cato.org

.

It's not shrinking the upper end of the middle class is growing and those people are still working for their money and are still paying income tax.

View attachment 469183

Irrelevant.

all that shows is the decrease in lower income households is being offset by the increase on households with 100K or more of income.

And FYI households with over 100K in income pay higher income taxes than the households making 50K.

Which is why the income tax is the government's preferred revenue generator.

It's not irrelevant to your original assertion which was, "Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is."

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

dqydj.com

Look at this chart and tell me is you see any negative changes in any of the income percentiles.

You'll notice the the percentiles between the 20th and 80th percentiles ( the middle class) there has been no negative percentage change therefore the middle class is not shrinking

That wasn't the point I was contesting.

So now you see that the middle class in increasing not decreasing and you're going to change your arguments.

your usual modus operandi

That was never my point and I'm not certain that the percentage of middle class isn't declining. It all depends upon where one defines the cutoff which is totally arbitrary. I like nice round numbers. Using nice round numbers it shows that the low and middle class percentages are declining and the upper class numbers are inclining. So the middle class does not seem to be where the money is at. At least not anymore.

 

[ding]

Brad Schiller: The middle class isn’t shrinking | The Daily World

By Brad Schiller

www.thedailyworld.com

The point was about where the tax money is at.

No it's where the income that is taxed is at.

So your statement that, " Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is" was referring to income and not tax revenue?

Take it anyway you want.

It would seem logical that politicians are interested in tax revenue, so I'll take it that way. And based upon the trends, the middle class is not the dominant tax base anymore. So even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class isn't where the money is anymore.

But it was really yours to make as you were the one who said it.

 

[22lcidw]

Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is.

The income tax is based on the fact that the middle class needs to work and will work as long as possible.

Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer

Moving on up…

www.cato.org

.

It's not shrinking the upper end of the middle class is growing and those people are still working for their money and are still paying income tax.

View attachment 469183

Irrelevant.

all that shows is the decrease in lower income households is being offset by the increase on households with 100K or more of income.

And FYI households with over 100K in income pay higher income taxes than the households making 50K.

Which is why the income tax is the government's preferred revenue generator.

It's not irrelevant to your original assertion which was, "Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is."

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

dqydj.com

Look at this chart and tell me is you see any negative changes in any of the income percentiles.

You'll notice the the percentiles between the 20th and 80th percentiles ( the middle class) there has been no negative percentage change therefore the middle class is not shrinking

That wasn't the point I was contesting.

So now you see that the middle class in increasing not decreasing and you're going to change your arguments.

your usual modus operandi

That was never my point and I'm not certain that the percentage of middle class isn't declining. It all depends upon where one defines the cutoff which is totally arbitrary. I like nice round numbers. Using nice round numbers it shows that the low and middle class percentages are declining and the upper class numbers are inclining. So the middle class does not seem to be where the money is at. At least not anymore.

The amount of people increasing in the streets is warning enough. Since the taxes are massively high in Prog areas where utopia was promised.

 

[ding]

Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is.

The income tax is based on the fact that the middle class needs to work and will work as long as possible.

Middle Class Shrinking… As Households Become Richer

Moving on up…

www.cato.org

.

It's not shrinking the upper end of the middle class is growing and those people are still working for their money and are still paying income tax.

View attachment 469183

Irrelevant.

all that shows is the decrease in lower income households is being offset by the increase on households with 100K or more of income.

And FYI households with over 100K in income pay higher income taxes than the households making 50K.

Which is why the income tax is the government's preferred revenue generator.

It's not irrelevant to your original assertion which was, "Even the stupidest politician knows that the middle class is where the money is."

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

dqydj.com

Look at this chart and tell me is you see any negative changes in any of the income percentiles.

You'll notice the the percentiles between the 20th and 80th percentiles ( the middle class) there has been no negative percentage change therefore the middle class is not shrinking

That wasn't the point I was contesting.

So now you see that the middle class in increasing not decreasing and you're going to change your arguments.

your usual modus operandi

That was never my point and I'm not certain that the percentage of middle class isn't declining. It all depends upon where one defines the cutoff which is totally arbitrary. I like nice round numbers. Using nice round numbers it shows that the low and middle class percentages are declining and the upper class numbers are inclining. So the middle class does not seem to be where the money is at. At least not anymore.

The amount of people increasing in the streets is warning enough. Since the taxes are massively high in Prog areas where utopia was promised.

Yeah, the signs are everywhere. The growth in incomes is an illusion. It's all inflation. The ones that suffer the most are the poor and the elderly. The numbers may show a declining lower and middle class and an inclining upper class but what they don't show is discretionary spending. So even while incomes are going up, people are still getting pinched. It's all a consequence of our government's fiscal policy of inflating their way out of debt. It's not sustainable.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yeah, the signs are everywhere. The growth in incomes is an illusion. It's all inflation. The ones that suffer the most are the poor and the elderly. The numbers may show a declining lower and middle class and an inclining upper class but what they don't show is discretionary spending. So even while incomes are going up, people are still getting pinched. It's all a consequence of our government's fiscal policy of inflating their way out of debt. It's not sustainable.

I went to get a new cell phone for my mother last summer. She's 85 and doesn't catch on to technology very well. So a nice simple flip phone like I bought her last time. Went to the Verizon store, and they only had three models. I chose the best one for my mother with the largest numbers so she could see what she's pressing. I asked the salesman why only three models? He told me nobody buys those phones anymore. The one I was buying was the first one he sold in over 4 months. Everybody buys smart phones.

When I think back to what I had as a teen in the 70's, and how much we spend on entertainment, dining, luxuries, and conveniences today, it's no wonder people don't have a lot left. They don't look at these things as conveniences, they look at them as necessities. When I was growing up, few actually went anywhere during their vacation. They just stayed home. Today people are flying all around the country and world several times a year. We went out to McDonald's once a year or so. A movie about twice a year. No cable, just rabbit ears on top of a television. One landline telephone for our entire household of five.

Point is we spend a lot more money on stuff we really don't need to have unlike many years ago.

 

[ding]

Yeah, the signs are everywhere. The growth in incomes is an illusion. It's all inflation. The ones that suffer the most are the poor and the elderly. The numbers may show a declining lower and middle class and an inclining upper class but what they don't show is discretionary spending. So even while incomes are going up, people are still getting pinched. It's all a consequence of our government's fiscal policy of inflating their way out of debt. It's not sustainable.

I went to get a new cell phone for my mother last summer. She's 85 and doesn't catch on to technology very well. So a nice simple flip phone like I bought her last time. Went to the Verizon store, and they only had three models. I chose the best one for my mother with the largest numbers so she could see what she's pressing. I asked the salesman why only three models? He told me nobody buys those phones anymore. The one I was buying was the first one he sold in over 4 months. Everybody buys smart phones.

When I think back to what I had as a teen in the 70's, and how much we spend on entertainment, dining, luxuries, and conveniences today, it's no wonder people don't have a lot left. They don't look at these things as conveniences, they look at them as necessities. When I was growing up, few actually went anywhere during their vacation. They just stayed home. Today people are flying all around the country and world several times a year. We went out to McDonald's once a year or so. A movie about twice a year. No cable, just rabbit ears on top of a television. One landline telephone for our entire household of five.

Point is we spend a lot more money on stuff we really don't need to have unlike many years ago.

Agreed.

The last bubble to burst will be the standard of living bubble. When that happens people will learn just what you are talking about here.

 

[Brain357]

The GOP is in no position to lecture anyone on fiscal responsibility.

If you want to be "fiscally responsible", make spending cuts FIRST, BEFORE cutting taxes.

All you do now is borrow and spend.

They cut taxes and increase military spending....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

First, you gotta get to the point where you aren't increasing the debt, i.e., balance the budget. Where in this era of spend big or go home isn't likely to happen. There was a time after WWII when Americans had a sense of responsibility to pay their debts, and they did so. Alas, today that sense of responsibility is pretty much gone; fiscal conservatives believe it is the right thing to do so that future generations are not burdened by our debts, but they are outnumbered by the spendthrifts in both parties who buy votes with IOUs. And I do not give Trump a pass here, his tax cuts did help get the economy get stronger. But he didn't cut spending, and part of the reason for that was some in his own party wanted to spend more to get re-elected. Not as much spending as the democrats wanted to do though. Remember the $3.4 trillion COVID Bill they passed?

Let's be honest here, neither party has the high moral ground in this instance. But it is the democrats who want to overspend far too much money to reach their political priorities. They don't give a flyin' **** about the debt, they think money can be printed or created out of thin air with no future consequences. They aren't going to raise taxes to pay off the debt or balance the budget, they're doing it so they can spend even more money, and the sad fact is that fiscal sanity begins with controlling and cutting your spending. At least the GOP is half-ass trying to do that.

There is only one way to control the spending, and that is if we ALL pay for it. That's what the Republicans should do. We have a consumption tax strictly for the deficit and debt, say 10 cents on the dollar. If they spend more, we increase the consumption tax. You'd see how fast people would be on their ass to stop wasteful spending like this last 2 trillion dollar Pork bill. Today, nobody cares. Why should they? Spend 10 trillion. It's not going to affect me!

 

[Brain357]

First, you gotta get to the point where you aren't increasing the debt, i.e., balance the budget. Where in this era of spend big or go home isn't likely to happen. There was a time after WWII when Americans had a sense of responsibility to pay their debts, and they did so. Alas, today that sense of responsibility is pretty much gone; fiscal conservatives believe it is the right thing to do so that future generations are not burdened by our debts, but they are outnumbered by the spendthrifts in both parties who buy votes with IOUs. And I do not give Trump a pass here, his tax cuts did help get the economy get stronger. But he didn't cut spending, and part of the reason for that was some in his own party wanted to spend more to get re-elected. Not as much spending as the democrats wanted to do though. Remember the $3.4 trillion COVID Bill they passed?

Let's be honest here, neither party has the high moral ground in this instance. But it is the democrats who want to overspend far too much money to reach their political priorities. They don't give a flyin' **** about the debt, they think money can be printed or created out of thin air with no future consequences. They aren't going to raise taxes to pay off the debt or balance the budget, they're doing it so they can spend even more money, and the sad fact is that fiscal sanity begins with controlling and cutting your spending. At least the GOP is half-ass trying to do that.

There is only one way to control the spending, and that is if we ALL pay for it. That's what the Republicans should do. We have a consumption tax strictly for the deficit and debt, say 10 cents on the dollar. If they spend more, we increase the consumption tax. You'd see how fast people would be on their ass to stop wasteful spending like this last 2 trillion dollar Pork bill. Today, nobody cares. Why should they? Spend 10 trillion. It's not going to affect me!

You are right, nobody cares. Repubs keep giving tax cuts.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Agreed.

The last bubble to burst will be the standard of living bubble. When that happens people will learn just what you are talking about here.

Exactly. I'm a victim of it myself. If my internet or cable goes down, I think it's the end of the Fn world. Then I sit back and ask myself, WTF did I do 30 years ago when we didn't have all theses things?

My father always laughs. He said he pays more for his smart phone bill today than he did for the monthly mortgage on the house we grew up in, which he mostly built himself.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are right, nobody cares. Repubs keep giving tax cuts.

You don't go into debt by taking less in. You go into debt by spending more than you have to. The Democrats want to put that on steroids as we just seen in the Pork bill.

 

[Brain357]

You are right, nobody cares. Repubs keep giving tax cuts.

You don't go into debt by taking less in. You go into debt by spending more than you have to. The Democrats want to put that on steroids as we just seen in the Pork bill.

And trump did both. Hurt revenue growth and drastically increased spending . He inherited a $600 billion deficit and turned into a trillion pre covid. Deficits increase with every repub pres.