JFK false flag victim

[rightwinger]

the main evidence that Oswald did not act alone was the fact he was silenced by Ruby

Ruby was evidence Oswald acted alone

On November 24, Ruby drove into town with one of his pet dogs and sent an emergency money order at the Western Union on Main Street to one of his employees. The time stamp of completion for the cash transaction on the money order was 11:17 A.M. Ruby then walked one half block to the nearby Dallas police headquarters, where he made his way into the basement via either the Main Street ramp[27] or a stairway accessible from an alleyway next to the Dallas Municipal Building.[28] At 11:21 am CST — while authorities were escorting Oswald through the police basement to an armored car that was to take him to the nearby county jail — Ruby stepped out from a crowd of reporters and fired a single round from his .38 revolver into Oswald's abdomen, fatally wounding him


Jack Ruby - Wikipedia

Nobody knew exactly when Oswald would be escorted out. Someone planning to murder Oswald would have been waiting for an hour or more. FOUR MINUTES before Oswald was escorted out, Ruby was sending a money order. He arrived in the basement approximately two minutes before Oswald

All true but some other details prove even more.

Oswald was held in the police station all weekend. He already had a black eye and was looking pretty pathetic after wearing the same clothes all weekend. Therefore the police allowed him to get cleaned up and provided some clean clothes taken from his boarding house room. HE actually preened and examined himself for a short while changing his clothes until he settled on the sweater and shirt combination which he was wearing when he was shot by Ruby. he wanted to look as good as possible since he knew he would be on TV.

The point is this behavior actually influenced the precise moment he was led out into the basement. He actually had some control over the exact moment of his meeting with Ruby.

These facts combined with Ruby;s behavior leading up to the shooting proves conclusively that it was not the result of a plan or plot. Ruby's actions were spur of the moment and Oswald unintentionally made it possible for Ruby to shoot him.

It was a coincidental meeting and nothing more.

The time stamp you describe was very precise and places Ruby a block away only a few minutes before the shooting and he had to wait his turn to send the money order. It was also common for him to loan money to some of his employees who needed financial help.

These are not the actions of someone involved in a plot they are the actions of someone who saw an immediate opportunity and jumped on it.

Had Oswald not screwed around with his wardrobe he would have been led out minutes earlier and Ruby would not have been there to shoot him.

Ruby also had his favorite dog in the car. Someone planning to assainate Oswald would have made arrangements to have someone watch his dog.
He wouldn’t bring the dog with him

 

[Wolfstrike]

you guys are dismissing large basic facts, for people's theories of details

everyone knows the police let ruby in.when ruby hit oswald it was a pro hit that damaged approx 5 vital organs

 

[rightwinger]

you guys are dismissing large basic facts, for people's theories of details

everyone knows the police let ruby in.when ruby hit oswald it was a pro hit that damaged approx 5 vital organs

Facts like there is no way Ruby could have planned to shoot Oswald?

 

[Soupnazi630]

you guys are dismissing large basic facts, for people's theories of details

everyone knows the police let ruby in.when ruby hit oswald it was a pro hit that damaged approx 5 vital organs

Wrong.

You have it backwards and it is you dismissing facts which prove you wrong.

Your theory that he was let in and that it was a pro hit is completely and irrefutably proven false by evidence and facts.

You have no evidence of any kind to support it.

 

[Soupnazi630]

you guys are dismissing large basic facts, for people's theories of details

everyone knows the police let ruby in.when ruby hit oswald it was a pro hit that damaged approx 5 vital organs

Exactly how does hitting five vital organs make it a PRO HIT and since when was Ruby a PRO hit man?

No one knows what you claim and you have no evidence of any kind to support what you claim to know

 

[candycorn]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

 

[Soupnazi630]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Only one is a coincidence. The fact that he worked in the TSBD which was right next to the presidents route.

The rest are not coincidence since they are simply his background and the details of his life and have nothing to do with the assassination.

As for working in the TSBD he was hired to work there BEFORE the motorcade route was planned. The route was planned to go in front of the building because that specific route offered the only access to the Stemmons freeway which needed to be taken in order to reach the intended destination which was the Texas international trade mart.

They needed to go to the trade mart because it was the most suitable building in Dallas to hold the political lunch which was Kennedy's purpose in visiting Dallas. The ultimate decisions in these matters were made by Kennedy himself. For example a visit to Dallas had been in the planning for some time. The original itinerary involved going to The university of Texas in Dallas where Kennedy would be awarded an Honorary PHD in political science. He changed his mind some weeks before the visit and instead hd his staff plan for the political lunch because he needed to solve some very serious problems with the leading members of the democrat party in texas which was threatening his chances for re-election.

This decision ultimately directed the destination and the route taken to get there. So yes it is just coincidence unless you believe Kennedy himself was involved in planning his own murder.

The fact that Oswald was a communist who tried living in the USSR and then made an attempt to emigrate to Cuba is irrelevant.

 

[rightwinger]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

 

[Soupnazi630]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except for the anarchist part. He was a communist.

 

[rightwinger]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except for the anarchist part. He was a communist.

He was both

 

[candycorn]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Only one is a coincidence. The fact that he worked in the TSBD which was right next to the presidents route.

The rest are not coincidence since they are simply his background and the details of his life and have nothing to do with the assassination.

As for working in the TSBD he was hired to work there BEFORE the motorcade route was planned. The route was planned to go in front of the building because that specific route offered the only access to the Stemmons freeway which needed to be taken in order to reach the intended destination which was the Texas international trade mart.

They needed to go to the trade mart because it was the most suitable building in Dallas to hold the political lunch which was Kennedy's purpose in visiting Dallas. The ultimate decisions in these matters were made by Kennedy himself. For example a visit to Dallas had been in the planning for some time. The original itinerary involved going to The university of Texas in Dallas where Kennedy would be awarded an Honorary PHD in political science. He changed his mind some weeks before the visit and instead hd his staff plan for the political lunch because he needed to solve some very serious problems with the leading members of the democrat party in texas which was threatening his chances for re-election.

This decision ultimately directed the destination and the route taken to get there. So yes it is just coincidence unless you believe Kennedy himself was involved in planning his own murder.

The fact that Oswald was a communist who tried living in the USSR and then made an attempt to emigrate to Cuba is irrelevant.

Its one of those things that We’ll just agree to disagree.

 

[candycorn]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except you just can’t become a Russian citizen much less fly there for shits and giggles. You have to be allowed to do both. He was
You just can’t defect back to the US. You have to be allowed. He was.
You usually can’t take your Russian wife with you when you leave the Soviet Union and defect to their geopolitical rival. You have to be allowed. He was.

That is just part of it.

 

[rightwinger]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except you just can’t become a Russian citizen much less fly there for shits and giggles. You have to be allowed to do both. He was
You just can’t defect back to the US. You have to be allowed. He was.
You usually can’t take your Russian wife with you when you leave the Soviet Union and defect to their geopolitical rival. You have to be allowed. He was.

That is just part of it.

Oswald entered the USSR on a tourist Visa and asked for permanent residency once he got there. His initial request was rejected and he finally got a permanent residency.
He was given a low level manufacturing job and was not treated like he had fantasized.
The Soviets were glad to be rid of him

 

[candycorn]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except you just can’t become a Russian citizen much less fly there for shits and giggles. You have to be allowed to do both. He was
You just can’t defect back to the US. You have to be allowed. He was.
You usually can’t take your Russian wife with you when you leave the Soviet Union and defect to their geopolitical rival. You have to be allowed. He was.

That is just part of it.

Oswald entered the USSR on a tourist Visa and asked for permanent residency once he got there. His initial request was rejected and he finally got a permanent residency.
He was given a low level manufacturing job and was not treated like he had fantasized.
The Soviets were glad to be rid of him

Possibly.

And then he decided to defect back to the US.

Quick question; how many people do you think did that during the Kennedy/Kruschev years?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except you just can’t become a Russian citizen much less fly there for shits and giggles. You have to be allowed to do both. He was
You just can’t defect back to the US. You have to be allowed. He was.
You usually can’t take your Russian wife with you when you leave the Soviet Union and defect to their geopolitical rival. You have to be allowed. He was.

That is just part of it.

Actually it happened more often than you think. He never became a Russian citizen he was only a resident.

US government documents about this have always told us one side of the story. After the fall fo the USSR we learned the other side when they opened their archives. It turns out at first that the Soviet government did not want Oswald to live there because they felt he was an idiot and they were correct. They changed their mind after he attempted suicide. The reason for this change was an upcoming summit meeting between Ike and the Soviet leadership which they felt would be threatened if the media made a big story about the loony American guy who wanted to live there so badly he was willing to kill himself.

So they shuffled him out to Minsk in the middle of no where. When he and his wife decided to leaver the USSR allowed them to do so but only after months of red tape and bureaucratic hassling.

Yes in fact when one was allowed to leave the USSR ( as opposed to defecting ) one was typically allowed to bring one's family.

He was odd and his behavior was odd but it is all irrelevant and has nothing to do with the assassination.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Don’t know what it adds up to but there are a lot of strange variables about Oswald that do not make much sense to me.

For one thing, here is a guy who defected from one super power to another during the hottest part of the cold war…and back again. Was allowed to leave with his Russian wife and come back to the US. Was vocal in the pro-cube movement. Went to he Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City right before he shot Kennedy. And on top of all that, he just happened to be working in one of the buildings that afforded him a great shot at the President.

Seems like an awful lot of coincidences to me

Oswald was an anarchist with self esteem issues

He went to Russia and expected to be treated like a hero........he wasn’t
He came home expecting to be mobbed by the press........he wasn’t
The FBI checked him out and figured he was a nut
So he tried to assassinate Gen Walker and failed
Then he read in the paper that the parade route would go by his window........

The rest is history

Except you just can’t become a Russian citizen much less fly there for shits and giggles. You have to be allowed to do both. He was
You just can’t defect back to the US. You have to be allowed. He was.
You usually can’t take your Russian wife with you when you leave the Soviet Union and defect to their geopolitical rival. You have to be allowed. He was.

That is just part of it.

Oswald entered the USSR on a tourist Visa and asked for permanent residency once he got there. His initial request was rejected and he finally got a permanent residency.
He was given a low level manufacturing job and was not treated like he had fantasized.
The Soviets were glad to be rid of him

Possibly.

And then he decided to defect back to the US.

Quick question; how many people do you think did that during the Kennedy/Kruschev years?

Wrong he did not defect anywhere.

One cannot defect from the USA in the first place as it is a free country and you are welcome to leave if you like.

The Soviets did not want him in the first place and had no problems with him returning to the USA.

 

[rightwinger]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?
They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?
Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

 

[candycorn]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?

Well, that is one way to look at it. Another way would be (if you’re a national superpower) is this: Americans have it very well in the world—which is the truth. At any one time 1/2 of the nation wishes the President were someone else.—which is true. A shocking amount of the time sees the VP who will, by law, become president if the President is killed….was a recent political rival of the President; which in the case of LBJ was the truth. I’m not sure that is enough to move the needle but if you take into account that

99% of the nation has it better than 100% of the rest of the world
50% the nation isn’t going to “miss” the President
and the VP is going to become the President who may or may not be part of the 50%

I would wonder if that wasn’t enough to sway some national actor.

They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?

All good points. We know Oswald said he was a patsy. Which would account for him not having an escape plan. Perhaps someone was supposed to meet him which would account for his going home and the erratic behavior after he shot the President.
As for the Professional Assassin, I think Rumsfeld put it best when he said (paraphrasing); you don’t go to war with the army you wish you had; you go with the one you got.

More about this later….

Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

Would I trust Oswald with this job? Not sure. However, if you’re Cuba and you have limited resources…you bring up to Russia that you want blood for the Bay of Pigs but they turn you down…you look at your list of options. Oswald isn’t your mail-order assassin for darn sure….but if you’re Cuba, you don’t exactly have a bunch of options in the James Bond department do you?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a lone nut. I think that there are way too many coincidences for that to be the case and that any spy agency or surveillance service would have had him marked and accounted for if he was anywhere near Dallas when the President was visiting… I wouldn’t be surprised though if Cuba enlisted him and then left him to fend for himself.
Thanks to Jack Ruby; we never heard Oswald’s side of the story.

 

[TomParks]

Oswald was waiting by the phone in the lunchroom then goes to his boarding house to get his gun...why? He was scared. Most likely he went to the theatre to meet someone but we will never know. What we do know is Oswald was pretending to be a communist while hanging out with right wingers in New Orleans.

 

[rightwinger]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?

Well, that is one way to look at it. Another way would be (if you’re a national superpower) is this: Americans have it very well in the world—which is the truth. At any one time 1/2 of the nation wishes the President were someone else.—which is true. A shocking amount of the time sees the VP who will, by law, become president if the President is killed….was a recent political rival of the President; which in the case of LBJ was the truth. I’m not sure that is enough to move the needle but if you take into account that

99% of the nation has it better than 100% of the rest of the world
50% the nation isn’t going to “miss” the President
and the VP is going to become the President who may or may not be part of the 50%

I would wonder if that wasn’t enough to sway some national actor.

They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?

All good points. We know Oswald said he was a patsy. Which would account for him not having an escape plan. Perhaps someone was supposed to meet him which would account for his going home and the erratic behavior after he shot the President.
As for the Professional Assassin, I think Rumsfeld put it best when he said (paraphrasing); you don’t go to war with the army you wish you had; you go with the one you got.

More about this later….

Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

Would I trust Oswald with this job? Not sure. However, if you’re Cuba and you have limited resources…you bring up to Russia that you want blood for the Bay of Pigs but they turn you down…you look at your list of options. Oswald isn’t your mail-order assassin for darn sure….but if you’re Cuba, you don’t exactly have a bunch of options in the James Bond department do you?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a lone nut. I think that there are way too many coincidences for that to be the case and that any spy agency or surveillance service would have had him marked and accounted for if he was anywhere near Dallas when the President was visiting… I wouldn’t be surprised though if Cuba enlisted him and then left him to fend for himself.
Thanks to Jack Ruby; we never heard Oswald’s side of the story.

I just hold conspiracies to a higher threshold than Lee Harvey Oswald

A bunch of hotheads in a Dallas bar could have come up with a better assassin than Oswald

But USSR, Cuba, Mafia...CIA????
A botched assassination would have brought down any one of them. You would think they have better resources........Look how Putin kills people