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But Jesus did not lead Gods armies to the earth, proving you in error. As well Rev 21:4--This has not occurred either. Nor has Rev 20:14-- You need a new teacher, most assuredly a new religion, one out of the darkness they teach you. they are these-2Cor 11:12-15That was the tribulation. It was local and the new Christians avoided it because they went to Pella.
There were foreign troops fighting under Titus and Vespasian in the attack on Jerusalem. They assembled at Meggido. It was a shortcut to Roman citizenship.
He could have chosen to sin and fail his task, its why satan tempted him. But he didn't fail.Jesus was tempted, in many things, as we are. But it means there was really struggle for him, it does not mean that he would ever sin. He knows the struggle, and now he would help us who really follow him through our struggles.
If God would choose to do sin, he could have done so. The temptation Jesus had was the struggle experienced to yet not sin, while he was still never sinning, however much the struggle.He could have chosen to sin and fail his task, its why satan tempted him. But he didn't fail.
Jesus isn't God, he is Gods son, all sons are made. God always was and always will be.If God would choose to do sin, he could have done so. The temptation Jesus had was the struggle experienced to yet not sin, while he was still never sinning, however much the struggle.
This seems off topic from what the thread was about, but do you just choose the parts of the Bible that you would believe? Or are you trusting the version Jehovah's Witnesses use from men of whom it was shown in court that they could not translate from Greek? The first chapter of John shows the Word was with God and was God, and the Word became flesh and dwelled among the people. Luke 1:35 shows the angel Gabriel saying to Mary who would become mother to him, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Since then, in the incarnation, he is known as the Son of God. But rather than being produced biologically he has always been, as more scriptures show. But it does not mean you are not saved if you do not know that. But you should learn more.Jesus isn't God, he is Gods son, all sons are made. God always was and always will be.
.I made a planet and people with many mini-me.
They acted naughty, so I drowned most of them
I had a son by one of them, and then killed him so people would love Me.
Has it never occurred to you that you take things to a literal level which is very strange .Jesus isn't God, he is Gods son, all sons are made. God always was and always will be.
When one is lead by holy spirit they don't need to understand Greek, God understands it better than any mortal.This seems off topic from what the thread was about, but do you just choose the parts of the Bible that you would believe? Or are you trusting the version Jehovah's Witnesses use from men of whom it was shown in court that they could not translate from Greek? The first chapter of John shows the Word was with God and was God, and the Word became flesh and dwelled among the people. Luke 1:35 shows the angel Gabriel saying to Mary who would become mother to him, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Since then, in the incarnation, he is known as the Son of God. But rather than being produced biologically he has always been, as more scriptures show. But it does not mean you are not saved if you do not know that. But you should learn more.
Pertaining to the topic, as the incarnation Jesus would not sin. The heavenly Father always knew that the incarnation would be sent among humans on the earth to save many of them, when otherwise all would perish with their sins. There was not risk that God would be wrong, it was the way there is salvation available for us. There were temptations Jesus still had to go through and struggle with as other men, but it was not with risk that he would sin, as we would. God already knew all the temptations would be overcome. We need his presence to help us overcome temptation to avoid still sinning.
In the Greek lexicons, At both John 1:1, and 2 Cor 4:4, the true God is called-Ton Theon,= God, but called Theon-God in other spots in the NT when mentioned alone.. He was called Ton Theon at both spots to show a difference, because in both spots another is called Theon=god when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon. This is 100% fact.Has it never occurred to you that you take things to a literal level which is very strange .
But against that you will not mind talking about Mummy God in this family saga .
Where did she come from ? What happened to her ? Were there any brothers and sisters ?
When one is lead by holy spirit they don't need to understand Greek, God understands it better than any mortal.
In the Greek lexicons the word is called-god( Theon) the true God is called(Ton Theon)- God, to show the difference at John 1:1, the same occurs at 2 Cor 4:4. Yet they have god( Theon, and God( Ton Theon) at 2 Cor 4:4 in the translations that are erred at John 1:1)- translating works the same at both spots.
Jesus chose with his free will to not sin, he could have sinned, its why the devil tempted him.
There was no other Savior when Isaiah was written. Jesus became a savior upon completion of his Earthly duties to die a sinless existence.Nice try. But you haven't proved anything.
Isaiah 43:10-11
"Understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me. I myself am Yahweh. Besides me, there is no savior."
Isaiah 44:6-8
"I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God. Who is like me? Who will call, and will declare it, and set it in order for me, since I established the ancient people? Let them declare the things that are coming, and that will happen. Don’t fear, neither be afraid. Haven’t I declared it to you long ago, and shown it? You are my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? Indeed, there is not. I don’t know any other Rock."
Isaiah 45:5-6
"I am Yahweh, and there is no one else. Besides me, there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known me, that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is no one besides me. I am Yahweh, and there is no one else."
Hebrews 1:8
To the Son he says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."
There was never a gamble, God knew Jesus would not sin, and he is the incarnation of God.
There was no other Savior when Isaiah was written. Jesus became a savior upon completion of his Earthly duties to die a sinless existence.
Satan wouldn't have wasted his time trying to get Jesus to sin unless there was a chance. Plus there would be no justice if he couldn't have sinned.
Justice = A perfect mortal, rebelled and sinned---A perfect mortal lived and did not sin, yet paid in full the wages of sin= death, the ransom sacrifice to buy back what Adam had lost.
Even marx admitted that he sold his soul. His poetry confirms it.
Lucifer was among the morning stars who lived in the presence of God the Father and his son Jesus Christ. He saw the glory of the Father and desired to be like him along with all the other spirit children of the Father. When the Father presented a plan for all of us to become more like the Father by coming to a fallen world, having our memory of our premortal existence removed, and maintaining our free will to choose good over evil. When Lucifer heard the plan of the Father, he thought to device his own plan which included taking away the free will of mankind. He presented his plan before the Father but the Father rejected his plan. This made Lucifer angry. He felt that his plan was better and sought to usurp the authority of God by starting a war in heaven by trying to lead away other children of God from following God's plan The Father rejected Lucifer's plan because it was important that for man to progress and become more like the Father, they need to choose to be good beings of their own free will and volition. Thus without free will it could not bring about the progression of mankind to become a good being in and of themselves by using their own free will to choose good over evil. Lucifer was very successful and got one third of all the hosts of heaven to follow his plan. After doing this, God cast Satan and his followers out of heaven and they became Satan and his demons. We read about this war in heaven in the Book of Revelation:
Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Isaiah also mentions the fall of Lucifer from heaven:
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Other latter-day verses speak of this conflict that occurred in heaven also:
Doctrine and Covenants 76:25-49
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.
40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—
41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;
42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;
43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.
44 Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment—
45 And the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows;
46 Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;
47 Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again;
48 Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation.
49 And we heard the voice, saying: Write the vision, for lo, this is the end of the vision of the sufferings of the ungodly.
Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
The war that began in heaven continues still upon the earth. Satan lost the war in heaven but now hopes to cause all those of us who sided with God to lose our salvation into the kingdom of heaven and if he can he wishes to make us all sons of perdition. Thus it is incumbent upon us to truly learn and know the will of God and to understand it so that we are not deceived by that wicked one. God has ensured our free will and so it is up to us to choose good over evil in this life and salvation over damnation.
That was a spiritual battle.But Jesus did not lead Gods armies to the earth, proving you in error. As well Rev 21:4--This has not occurred either. Nor has Rev 20:14-- You need a new teacher, most assuredly a new religion, one out of the darkness they teach you. they are these-2Cor 11:12-15
God knows what his will will accomplish in the future. He doesn't know all the future. Any can repent and turn around, they must choose with their free will to do so, its not predestined.Think about the logic of that. It is revelation of God speaking. God knows all. There is not a future hidden from God, especially least of all possible what God was already planning. God in this revelation did not say, "besides me, there is no savior, until...". God said there is none, and that was to always be understood, being in the Bible as it was meant to be. And, there is no other God. Not any other, in reality. If Christ, who is fully in union with the heavenly Father, his Father, and never in disagreement, is a god, it can only mean, logically, with scriptures showing this from God's own revelation, that he is God, the one and only in reality. The original language written that we know of this from is not showing anything contrary to it, there is only one God, the one we are to trust.
None are saved by knowing this, so I do not usually talk about it. I do with someone as you making it central to what you want to argue about. But I would give more place to speaking of faith, with repentance and real trust, that any must have for coming to Christ, and with just believing in your works to have opportunity for everlasting life, you have yet to come to that to really have salvation. That is important, even much more, whether you come to understand these things about Christ or not. And then you would understand that even with being tempted Christ was not going to sin, even if it involved great struggle in his body and even with the devil not even understanding that, as God knew already. So we coming to him, in reality, can trust Christ's help through our temptations, and his example shows there is strength for that. May you really come to Christ.
After that battle and the 1000 year reign of Christ,satan gets thrown into the lake of fire and so does death and Hades(grave) yet people die everyday. Its been over 1900 years. Any can look at this world and see that satan is still the god of this system of things.That was a spiritual battle.
