Jesus on Marriage...

[BDBoop]

You are being bad here BDBoop, I have neg repped you for being what I feel is dishonest in this thread.....my first one in 5 months

The spinning and ignoring the facts you are doing is just bad. Sorry if you are offended by my criticism of you in this thread.

And now you know why.

yes and I feel like a douche for negging you earlier....wanted to say that publicly

It only seems fair, since you did announce that you neg repped me.

 

[BDBoop]

Actually, the ancient Aramaic word used very specific (I believe it was guara) and pertaining only to sex with someone other than a spouse. This was congruent with the ancient Greek texts as well. This is one of those text that every original maunscript is exact on.
My view of it is different than yours. Like many, many things in the Bible, it is one that needs understanding of the cultural context. I don't know if you're aware of it but at the time, men would marry girls between the age of 12 - 15. Then when they hit their 20's, they were stronger, more independent and "old". They could not legall divorce their husbands BUT the hubbies would see young girls walking around and well Hmmmm. Unfortunately, wives require feeding and such. Too many can make you broke. Same with kids. So they would divorce the wife and decide whether any kids through them were worth keeping. If not, they're all on the streets. Since the wife was no longer a virgin, no man would marry her. So she was left with two options: Begging or prostitution. Nice guys, those ancient Jews, eh?
So my take on this verse? I simply ignore it. I know that sounds like GASP!!!! What a heretic! But seriously, all Christians do that with lots of verses. And for good reason. A lot of verses were written specifically for the cultural circumstances of the time.
Also, keep in mind, there were HUNDREDS of Gospels, epistles etc... Lots of them directly contradicted what eventually became Catholic doctrine, so they were simply thrown out. Which means that tens of thousands of verses were dumped already. Well heck. If a bunch of power-hungry control freaks can dump 70%+ of the original Bible, I can take my understanding of the context and let me heart guide me.

Did I mention I have my degree in Christian theology? I actually thought about another career path, once upon a time but there is an old saying "No one comes out of seminary with the beliefs they went in with." Happens. )

You rock.

Yes, it figures you would like stupidity and hypocrisy.

I don't think a degree in Christian theology can be equated to stupidity, but your mileage may vary.

 

[BDBoop]

Jewish Ceremonial Law and it's not in Leviticus 18...

Beastiality and Homosexuality are... And Homosexuality is called Abomination... Beastiality is called Confusion.

Don't bear False Witness.



peace...

No, it's not in Leviticus 18. But then, I didn't say it was, did I.


Lev 11:10

Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

He only reads the parts of the Bible that excite him.

Oh, don't I know it. And then he starts 'divide and conquer' threads while he does the fap-fap dance.

 

[IndependntLogic]

My take on "other than adultry" does not necessarily mean just having an affair with another person. Adultry in a marriage could mean many things...maybe it's the love of yourself more than you love your wife (or husband). This love of yourself more could also have something to do with how you treat your spouse. It could get violent if he or she doesn't feel the same way about you...you think he or she should love you the same way you love yourself. When that doesn't happen...that's where abuse comes in.

This is why i've always believed God would never want someone stay with anyone who abuses them. There are no other reasons to get a divorce.

So it all comes down to what does God "entirely" mean by adultry?

Actually, the ancient Aramaic word used very specific (I believe it was guara) and pertaining only to sex with someone other than a spouse. This was congruent with the ancient Greek texts as well. This is one of those text that every original maunscript is exact on.
My view of it is different than yours. Like many, many things in the Bible, it is one that needs understanding of the cultural context. I don't know if you're aware of it but at the time, men would marry girls between the age of 12 - 15. Then when they hit their 20's, they were stronger, more independent and "old". They could not legall divorce their husbands BUT the hubbies would see young girls walking around and well Hmmmm. Unfortunately, wives require feeding and such. Too many can make you broke. Same with kids. So they would divorce the wife and decide whether any kids through them were worth keeping. If not, they're all on the streets. Since the wife was no longer a virgin, no man would marry her. So she was left with two options: Begging or prostitution. Nice guys, those ancient Jews, eh?
So my take on this verse? I simply ignore it. I know that sounds like GASP!!!! What a heretic! But seriously, all Christians do that with lots of verses. And for good reason. A lot of verses were written specifically for the cultural circumstances of the time.
Also, keep in mind, there were HUNDREDS of Gospels, epistles etc... Lots of them directly contradicted what eventually became Catholic doctrine, so they were simply thrown out. Which means that tens of thousands of verses were dumped already. Well heck. If a bunch of power-hungry control freaks can dump 70%+ of the original Bible, I can take my understanding of the context and let me heart guide me.

Did I mention I have my degree in Christian theology? I actually thought about another career path, once upon a time but there is an old saying "No one comes out of seminary with the beliefs they went in with." Happens. )

No you didn't say you had a degree...
I do know the Bible isn't complete...because of what you pointed out. So i do know too that what i take from the Bible i need to follow my heart to know what to believe and how to interpret it. None of us are going to know exactly what God was say in most of it because "times have changed". Much of what was spoken about had to do with THAT time, not this. We won't know for sure of anything until we're out of this world and with God.

There are so many interpretations of the Bible and so many different types of people and beliefs it's no wonder everyone has problems understanding. But, some things are VERY clear. Especially in the NT where Jesus teaches us...what He says i take literally. Like with this OP...it's very clear what Jesus said about homosexuality. But many people will come right out and say that it's not even in the Bible!

I wish i had the time to really study the Bible like i should. I really want to know the truth about all of it. I really don't even believe that someone that gets a degree, like you have, REALLY knows the complete truth...you "were" taught by man. But you're probably closer to it than i am .

I admire your faith, your open mindedness, your civility and your humility. There are so many Christians who drive people away from our faith, with their thinly veiled hatred and judgmentalism but you are truly the light on the hill that cannot be hidden. It is a pleasure having a discussion with you and please know that, with something as complex and convoluted as the history of the Christian faith, even if we do not agree, I can respect anyone who handles themselves the way you do.
As far as the passages on divorce in Matthew 5 and Luke 16, I think your statement "follow my heart" is exactly right. That's all any of us can do with the entire Bible.
Remember, you're talking about a book that wasn't even written down for hundreds of years. The entire Torah (and later, other books) was memorized and passed from generation to generation. It's been through dozens of translations.
So really, when you follow your heart, your view as 100% as accurate as any Bible scholar out there.
And I give you credit. A coward, when faced with something as challenging as the divorce / remarry verses, would have thrown a fit, dodged the challenge and insisted we discuss only what they want to discuss.
You rose to the challenge. What strength!

Hey, did you know there's an ancient Aramaic saying that goes "It's easier to get a ROPE through the eye of a needle, that it is for a rich man to go to heaven"?
Did you know that the symbol for the word "rope" is different from the word "camel" only by a single dot above one letter?
Now, what would happen if someone finished working on a scroll, rolled it up (which is what they did) and squished a small bug that happened to be on the scroll (happened all the time) in just the right place?
Hmmmm.

 

[mal]

Jewish Ceremonial Law and it's not in Leviticus 18...

Beastiality and Homosexuality are... And Homosexuality is called Abomination... Beastiality is called Confusion.

Don't bear False Witness.



peace...

No, it's not in Leviticus 18. But then, I didn't say it was, did I.


Lev 11:10

Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

He only reads the parts of the Bible that excite him.

Awe... How sweet.



peace...

 

[Catalist]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPTeCZ_gpDo]Jesus' Gay Marriage Sing Along! - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[BluePhantom]

Provide one Quote from the Old or New Testaments that has God or Jesus even Tolerant of Homosexuality...
I'll be here.

peace...

Jesus was silent before Pontius Pilate. He knew when it was a waste of time. Thus it is with you. It's not like you have an open mind. You remind me of Muslims who use the Qu'Ran to kill people. You have a religion based on seperation, judgmentalism and hatred.
Oh well. It's not like you're alone or even unusual.
For centuries, prophets have brought messages of love and peace.
And always, The Message has been ignored and worship of the Messenger has been used as justification for petty judgmentalism, violence, elitism etc...

From my book The Las Vegas Times Dictionary (available on Amazon, shameless plug time!)

Bible: n A holy tome which tells people four things:
1. There is one God and He is not found in a church.
2. Don’t judge others, focus on your own path.
3. Love and tolerate everyone. Especially those you might be tempted to look down upon or call your enemies.
4. Don’t go around hurting or murdering each other. Really, it’s not very nice and God doesn’t like it.
The result of man’s interpretation of this book has been:
1. The belief that God can only be found in a church – and it must be the right one.
2. The condemnation by members of one church, of others who do not go to the same church.
3. A self-righteousness and judgmental intolerance of anyone deemed “sinful” by those who consider their own sins to be of superior quality and
4. The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, KKK, bombing of planned parenthood centers, and the election of Conservative politicians.

So yes, don't worry about that plank in your eye. Tell us how wrong and sinful and what an abomination other people are. Throw the first stone. Judge thy neighbor. Those whom you consider the lowest, will be uh... the lowest. Hate thy enemy. Got it.

So basically, you have the ability to love and accept those of whom you judge worthy of your personal approval and are comfortable with. Impressive brand of religion ya got there...

Must be one of the most anti-Christian postings on this forum.

Unfortunately, he is absolutely correct. I have been meaning to get in on this thread for days now but delayed as I didn't have time and my responses would require a lot of typing which I was not at leisure to do, but IL is right on the nose here. Most translations of the Bible today in English are quite different from what it says in the original languages and according to the culture of the times. I have made reference to this countless times on other threads, but in essence the Church selectively took what suited their purposes (and the purposes of Rome), discarded the rest, intentionally twisted critical words and phrases, flat out lied in many cases about what the scriptures say, and created a business based upon a corruption of the teachings of Jesus.

That's not to say that the Bible should be ignored, but those who simply read it and obey it usually have a very convoluted idea of what Christianity is all about compared to those who read it (and as many of the rejected books that they can get their hands on) while studying and applying the history, languages, cultures, and traditions of the times, where those things came from, and how they influenced the authors of the Bible.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Jesus was silent before Pontius Pilate. He knew when it was a waste of time. Thus it is with you. It's not like you have an open mind. You remind me of Muslims who use the Qu'Ran to kill people. You have a religion based on seperation, judgmentalism and hatred.
Oh well. It's not like you're alone or even unusual.
For centuries, prophets have brought messages of love and peace.
And always, The Message has been ignored and worship of the Messenger has been used as justification for petty judgmentalism, violence, elitism etc...

From my book The Las Vegas Times Dictionary (available on Amazon, shameless plug time!)

Bible: n A holy tome which tells people four things:
1. There is one God and He is not found in a church.
2. Don’t judge others, focus on your own path.
3. Love and tolerate everyone. Especially those you might be tempted to look down upon or call your enemies.
4. Don’t go around hurting or murdering each other. Really, it’s not very nice and God doesn’t like it.
The result of man’s interpretation of this book has been:
1. The belief that God can only be found in a church – and it must be the right one.
2. The condemnation by members of one church, of others who do not go to the same church.
3. A self-righteousness and judgmental intolerance of anyone deemed “sinful” by those who consider their own sins to be of superior quality and
4. The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, KKK, bombing of planned parenthood centers, and the election of Conservative politicians.

So yes, don't worry about that plank in your eye. Tell us how wrong and sinful and what an abomination other people are. Throw the first stone. Judge thy neighbor. Those whom you consider the lowest, will be uh... the lowest. Hate thy enemy. Got it.

So basically, you have the ability to love and accept those of whom you judge worthy of your personal approval and are comfortable with. Impressive brand of religion ya got there...

Must be one of the most anti-Christian postings on this forum.

Unfortunately, he is absolutely correct. I have been meaning to get in on this thread for days now but delayed as I didn't have time and my responses would require a lot of typing which I was not at leisure to do, but IL is right on the nose here. Most translations of the Bible today in English are quite different from what it says in the original languages and according to the culture of the times. I have made reference to this countless times on other threads, but in essence the Church selectively took what suited their purposes (and the purposes of Rome), discarded the rest, intentionally twisted critical words and phrases, flat out lied in many cases about what the scriptures say, and created a business based upon a corruption of the teachings of Jesus.

That's not to say that the Bible should be ignored, but those who simply read it and obey it usually have a very convoluted idea of what Christianity is all about compared to those who read it (and as many of the rejected books that they can get their hands on) while studying and applying the history, languages, cultures, and traditions of the times, where those things came from, and how they influenced the authors of the Bible.

Hmmm. A fellow theologian. Nice to see. Artevelde might have a sliver of credibility if he had added anything of substance at all to that sentence e.g. "Jesus did not say X" or whatever.
Instead he just says my post is "anti-Christian", without specifying how or why. Oh well.

Hey, are you familiar with the Lamsa Bible?

 

[Newby]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

 

[BDBoop]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

You make me long for football season, so you could go right from church to dinner to the game without us having to see your smiling face.

 

[Newby]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

You make me long for football season, so you could go right from church to dinner to the game without us having to see your smiling face.

Where's your love, acceptance, and tolerance Betty? Tsk tsk..

 

[BDBoop]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

You make me long for football season, so you could go right from church to dinner to the game without us having to see your smiling face.

Where's your love, acceptance, and tolerance Betty? Tsk tsk..

Lord, but you're easy.

 

[Newby]

You make me long for football season, so you could go right from church to dinner to the game without us having to see your smiling face.

Where's your love, acceptance, and tolerance Betty? Tsk tsk..

Lord, but you're easy.

Easy? Okay... lets compare post count and time on the board and see who's face is around here more.. it ain't me... actually i think this is the first weekend ive ever been on the board. Sorry to ruin your day..

Well, not really...

 

[mal]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

+1



peace...

 

[IndependntLogic]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

+1



peace...

No. Apparently you guys are a little slow on the uptick. I claim I DO understand the comments and more importantly, their cultural context - something which you and Mal are completely clueless about, when it comes to The Bible.

Thus, like those who consctructed The Bible, although on a much smaller scale, there are many verses I know simply don't apply anymore or in our current culture. You do the same thing, btw.

 

[mal]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

+1



peace...

No. Apparently you guys are a little slow on the uptick. I claim I DO understand the comments and more importantly, their cultural context - something which you and Mal are completely clueless about, when it comes to The Bible.

Thus, like those who consctructed The Bible, although on a much smaller scale, there are many verses I know simply don't apply anymore or in our current culture. You do the same thing, btw.

How is being Wrong working out for you?...



peace...

 

[BDBoop]

Where's your love, acceptance, and tolerance Betty? Tsk tsk..

Lord, but you're easy.

Easy? Okay... lets compare post count and time on the board and see who's face is around here more.. it ain't me... actually i think this is the first weekend ive ever been on the board. Sorry to ruin your day..

Well, not really...

Okay, and this "apropos of nothing" moment was brought to you by Newby.

 

[IndependntLogic]

You are a theologian yet you claimed to not understand Christs comments on slavery and how they related to the culture in His time? Seriously?

+1



peace...

No. Apparently you guys are a little slow on the uptick. I claim I DO understand the comments and more importantly, their cultural context - something which you and Mal are completely clueless about, when it comes to The Bible.

Thus, like those who consctructed The Bible, although on a much smaller scale, there are many verses I know simply don't apply anymore or in our current culture. You do the same thing, btw.

How is being Wrong working out for you?...



peace...

Oh I've already proven I'm right and you Cut & Ran. But I can do it right now. I can prove you are clueless about cultural context, ancient hebrew tradition and idiom etc... as applicable to The Bible right now. I suppose if you grew a pair, you might be up for the challenge but I would suggest you dodge, change the subject, avoid, evade, maybe sling some petty insults or Cut & Run again, like you have all thread.
Seriously. You're going into a battle of knowledge unarmed.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Well THAT got them to Cut & Run pretty quickly!
Suddenly, Mal and Newby are nowhere to be found!

So predictible.

LOL!!!!

 

[Newby]

Well THAT got them to Cut & Run pretty quickly!
Suddenly, Mal and Newby are nowhere to be found!

So predictible.

LOL!!!!

What a pompous Ass you are.. a real legend in your own mind..