Zone1 Jesus Christ: The MYTH

[BreezeWood]

Why?

You think religious dogma matters. It doesn't.

two faced texas desert dweller ...

 

[GLASNOST]

I neither believe nor disbelieve in the existence of God but I have always assumed (rather strongly) that Jesus Christ existed as a mere prophet. I accepted that everything else about him is hog-wash. But now I am not so sure he existed at all.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

What part of my opinion do you disagree with?

 

[ding]

What part of my opinion do you disagree with?

The part where you didn't list the reasons for your beliefs.

 

[ding]

two faced texas desert dweller ...

Why do you believe I should condemn the bible?

 

[JoeB131]

You worry about that way more than I do. I focus on the journey, not the destination. I walk with God now.

Okay, but let's say you found out there is no afterlife, and what you did in this one had no effect. No heaven or Hell, you just die, and that's it? Would all the grovelling still be important to you?

I don't think like you do. None of that matters. All that matters is my relationship with God. If that is right, all of my other relationships are right.

Yes, we get that, you need to grovel in front of your imaginary friend, who amazingly, validates all your bigotries. God hates gays and Mexicans, just like you do. And Mexican God hates the Gringos, just like they do. See how that works out?

You can't see the forest for the trees. You think religious dogma matters. It doesn't. The most important thing is to seek God with all your heart. Everything else takes care of itself.

But that's messed up, yo! The most important thing should be to treat other people decently. If there is a higher power, he should be focused on how much you helped others, not on how often you grovelled in the right Church.

What would you consider a right answer? How would you know the right answer?

Evaluation and evidence.

For instance, when my mom died, and Sr. Mary Butch said the stupidest thing I ever heard in my life, (and I post on USMB, and hear a lot of stupid stuff) I did an evaluation, and decided the right answer is, there probably isn't a God. I had my doubts before that. But that was the winning stroke.

Conversely, I used to vote Republican. And then 2008 happened and I found myself with an underwater mortgage, a busted 401K and was forced to take a job that paid me considerably less than I was making. Then I realized the Republicans only really care about rich people and I should stop pretending I make enough money for them to care about.

Only 44% of the world's population is proficient in basic math. Only 20% of the population speaks the world's most widely spoken language. The majority of the population, is not proficient in math; over eighty percent do not speak English, and over fifty-percent are not Catholic. What about it? Are you suggesting this is something everyone should be wailing and grinding their teeth over?

I think who the supreme being is should have more universal acceptance than what language you speak.

Hey, only 50% of the people in my home speak English. the other 50% (Mrs. B131) speaks Mandarin. Now, is this a huge problem? Nope. With Google Translate, we are usually able to communicate effectively.

 

[ding]

Okay, but let's say you found out there is no afterlife, and what you did in this one had no effect. No heaven or Hell, you just die, and that's it? Would all the grovelling still be important to you?

Absolutely, but it's not groveling. That's just your anti-Christian bigotry talking. I don't think you can help yourself. You aren't in control. You've transfered your control to an extenal source.

But to your point.... The benefit of faith far exceeds that of atheism. It's literally the argument Paschal was making. That even if God does not exist, the benefit from believing God does exist is worth it.

 

[ding]

Yes, we get that, you need to grovel in front of your imaginary friend, who amazingly, validates all your bigotries. God hates gays and Mexicans, just like you do. And Mexican God hates the Gringos, just like they do. See how that works out?

Incorrect. You mock what you don't understand. Belief in God throughout history has been overwhelming. Every human society throughout history has held a belief in a power greater than man. From a Darwinian persepctive, this can only be true if that belief offered a functional advantage. Which it does.

God doesn't hate anyone. Why would he?

 

[ding]

But that's messed up, yo! The most important thing should be to treat other people decently. If there is a higher power, he should be focused on how much you helped others, not on how often you grovelled in the right Church.

How is my saying, religious dogma doesn't matter messed up? If one seeks God with all their heart, they will treat others with respect and decency... which you aren't doing.

 

[JoeB131]

But to your point.... The benefit of faith far exceeds that of atheism. It's literally the argument Paschal was making. That even if God does not exist, the benefit from believing God does exist is worth it.

But it begs the question, what if someone else turns out to be right? What if the Muslims are right?

Incorrect. You mock what you don't understand. Belief in God throughout history has been overwhelming. Every human society throughout history has held a belief in a power greater than man. From a Darwinian persepctive, this can only be true if that belief offered a functional advantage. Which it does.

What advantage was there to worshipping Zeus if Zeus didn't exist.

Yes, religion can play a role in explaining an unexplainable universe. Plague? God Must be angry. Famine? God must be angry. Swarm of Locust? God must be angry.

Except now... we have medicines for the plague, proper farming techniques to control the famines, and insecticides to control the locusts.

How is my saying, religious dogma doesn't matter messed up? If one seeks God with all their heart, they will treat others with respect and decency... which you aren't doing.

So why can't you simply just treat people decently without grovelling in front of a sky pixie?

 

[ding]

But it begs the question, what if someone else turns out to be right? What if the Muslims are right?

What part of dogma doesn't matter didn't you understand?

 

[Hafar1014]

How is my saying, religious dogma doesn't matter messed up? If one seeks God with all their heart, they will treat others with respect and decency... which you aren't doing.

Christian antisemitism, often termed anti-Judaism when referring to religious opposition, is a long-standing history of prejudice and violence rooted in theological disputes and societal scapegoating. While many modern denominations have formally repudiated these views, several "well-known" instances and themes have shaped this legacy:
Jews for Jesus +1

Historical Figures & Theological Roots

• John Chrysostom
  (4th Century): A prominent early Church Father whose series of homilies, Adversus Judaeos ("Against the Jews"), contained violent denunciations. He described synagogues as "temples of demons" and Jews as "assassins of Christ".
• Martin Luther
  (16th Century): Initially hopeful for Jewish conversion, the leader of the Reformation later wrote the vitriolic treatise On the Jews and Their Lies (1543). He advocated for burning synagogues, destroying Jewish homes, and seizing their wealth.
• Jewish Deicide: The "Christ-killer" accusation—the belief that Jews are collectively and eternally responsible for the death of Jesus—served as the theological foundation for centuries of persecution.
  Wikipedia +6

Pernicious Myths & Accusations

• The Blood Libel: A recurring false accusation, first recorded in the 1144 case of William of Norwich, claiming that Jews murdered Christian children to use their blood in religious rituals like baking matzah.
• Host Desecration: The belief that Jews would "torture" the consecrated host (Eucharist wafer) to symbolically re-enact the crucifixion of Christ.
• The Black Death (1348–1350): During the bubonic plague, Jews were frequently scapegoated and accused of poisoning wells to destroy Christendom, leading to massacres and the wiping out of entire communities.
  The Holocaust Explained +2

Significant Events & Persecutions

• The Crusades: While aimed at reclaiming the Holy Land, crusaders often massacred Jewish communities across Europe (notably the Rhineland massacres in 1096) as "enemies of God".
• The Spanish Inquisition (1478): Established to ferret out "crypto-Jews"—converts (conversos) suspected of secretly practicing Judaism. This era culminated in the Alhambra Decree (1492), which expelled all Jews from Spain.
• Ghettos and Segregation: In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the bull Cum nimis absurdum, which forced Jews in the Papal States to live in walled ghettos and wear distinctive clothing or badges.
  Wikipedia +5

Modern Shifts & Repudiation

• Nostra Aetate (1965): A landmark declaration by the Vatican that officially rejected the charge of collective Jewish guilt for the death of Jesus.
• Lutheran Repudiation: In 1994, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and other Lutheran bodies publicly rejected and apologized for
  Martin Luther’s
  antisemitic writings.
  Wikipedia +3

13 sites

• Religious antisemitism - Wikipedia
  Christian antisemitism * Christian religious antisemitism is often expressed as anti-Judaism (i.e., it is argued that the antipath...
  
  Wikipedia
  
  
  
• Antisemitism in Christianity - Wikipedia
  * In Judaism, Jesus is not recognized as the Messiah and he is also viewed as one of many failed Jewish Messiah claimants as well ...
  
  Wikipedia
  
  
  
• Martin Luther and antisemitism - Wikipedia
  Martin Luther and antisemitism. ... You can help expand this article with text translated from the corresponding article in German...
  
  Wikipedia
  
  

Show all

 

[ding]

What advantage was there to worshipping Zeus if Zeus didn't exist.

If you believe Zeus loves you and is pruning you, then you would get the same benefits. Google, "what is the value of worship."

Yes, religion can play a role in explaining an unexplainable universe. Plague? God Must be angry. Famine? God must be angry. Swarm of Locust? God must be angry.

These are polytheistic beliefs. These are not the beliefs of monotheists.

Except now... we have medicines for the plague, proper farming techniques to control the famines, and insecticides to control the locusts.

What do you have for your soul?

 

[ding]

Christian antisemitism, often termed anti-Judaism when referring to religious opposition, is a long-standing history of prejudice and violence rooted in theological disputes and societal scapegoating. While many modern denominations have formally repudiated these views, several "well-known" instances and themes have shaped this legacy:
Jews for Jesus +1

Historical Figures & Theological Roots

• John Chrysostom
  (4th Century): A prominent early Church Father whose series of homilies, Adversus Judaeos ("Against the Jews"), contained violent denunciations. He described synagogues as "temples of demons" and Jews as "assassins of Christ".
• Martin Luther
  (16th Century): Initially hopeful for Jewish conversion, the leader of the Reformation later wrote the vitriolic treatise On the Jews and Their Lies (1543). He advocated for burning synagogues, destroying Jewish homes, and seizing their wealth.
• Jewish Deicide: The "Christ-killer" accusation—the belief that Jews are collectively and eternally responsible for the death of Jesus—served as the theological foundation for centuries of persecution.
  Wikipedia +6

Pernicious Myths & Accusations

• The Blood Libel: A recurring false accusation, first recorded in the 1144 case of William of Norwich, claiming that Jews murdered Christian children to use their blood in religious rituals like baking matzah.
• Host Desecration: The belief that Jews would "torture" the consecrated host (Eucharist wafer) to symbolically re-enact the crucifixion of Christ.
• The Black Death (1348–1350): During the bubonic plague, Jews were frequently scapegoated and accused of poisoning wells to destroy Christendom, leading to massacres and the wiping out of entire communities.
  The Holocaust Explained +2

Significant Events & Persecutions

• The Crusades: While aimed at reclaiming the Holy Land, crusaders often massacred Jewish communities across Europe (notably the Rhineland massacres in 1096) as "enemies of God".
• The Spanish Inquisition (1478): Established to ferret out "crypto-Jews"—converts (conversos) suspected of secretly practicing Judaism. This era culminated in the Alhambra Decree (1492), which expelled all Jews from Spain.
• Ghettos and Segregation: In 1555, Pope Paul IV issued the bull Cum nimis absurdum, which forced Jews in the Papal States to live in walled ghettos and wear distinctive clothing or badges.
  Wikipedia +5

Modern Shifts & Repudiation

• Nostra Aetate (1965): A landmark declaration by the Vatican that officially rejected the charge of collective Jewish guilt for the death of Jesus.
• Lutheran Repudiation: In 1994, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and other Lutheran bodies publicly rejected and apologized for
  Martin Luther’s
  antisemitic writings.
  Wikipedia +3

13 sites

• Religious antisemitism - Wikipedia
  Christian antisemitism * Christian religious antisemitism is often expressed as anti-Judaism (i.e., it is argued that the antipath...
  
  Wikipedia
  
  
  
• Antisemitism in Christianity - Wikipedia
  * In Judaism, Jesus is not recognized as the Messiah and he is also viewed as one of many failed Jewish Messiah claimants as well ...
  
  Wikipedia
  
  
  
• Martin Luther and antisemitism - Wikipedia
  Martin Luther and antisemitism. ... You can help expand this article with text translated from the corresponding article in German...
  
  Wikipedia
  

Show all

I hope that all of us or none of us will be judged by our worst behaviors.

 

[Hafar1014]

If you believe Zeus loves you and is pruning you, then you would get the same benefits. Google, "what is the value of worship."

These are polytheistic beliefs. These are not the beliefs of monotheists.

What do you have for your soul?

Father son holy ghost, Mary worship and a devil. Thats polytheism

 

[ding]

Father son holy ghost, Mary worship and a devil. Thats polytheism

I disagree. You mock what you don't understand.

 

[Hafar1014]

I disagree. You mock what you don't understand.

Its basic math and cant be understood

 

[ding]

Its basic math and cant be understood

I can't say it anymore clear than I already have.

 

[JoeB131]

If you believe Zeus loves you and is pruning you, then you would get the same benefits. Google, "what is the value of worship."

So imaginary gods are just as valuable as "real ones".

These are polytheistic beliefs. These are not the beliefs of monotheists.

Have you actually read the bible? the Bible blamed just about every setback Israel suffered to Yahweh being angry about something.

 

[Hafar1014]

I can't say it anymore clear than I already have.

Christianity is polytheism in practice and denial isnt clarity.

 

[GLASNOST]

Okay, but let's say you found out there is no afterlife, and what you did in this one had no effect. No heaven or Hell, you just die, and that's it? Would all the grovelling still be important to you? ... we get that you need to grovel in front of your imaginary friend, who amazingly, validates all your bigotries. God hates gays and Mexicans, just like you do. And Mexican God hates the Gringos, just like they do. See how that works out?

Very well spoken, Joe.

... The most important thing should be to treat other people decently. If there is a higher power, he should be focused on how much you helped others, not on how often you grovelled in the right Church.

Yes, there's the most important thing [or whatever it's called] because if there is a God or an afterlife, treating other people decently probably won't be deemed a bad thing. Will we get "good points" for it? No one knows. But getting "bad points" for it just doesn't sit right.