Jefferson Davis - He should've died in prison. He was responsible for so much death, destruction, misery.

[jacksonlamb]

What a dumbass. Of course it mattered what Jeff Davis wanted. Jeff Davis refusal of a pardon forced the damnyankees hand. Now they must figure out a way to pardon Davise, who doesn't want a pardon. Now they must figure out what to do since they already declared they would hang Davis for treason. They declared it to the world, that they would hand Davis from a sour apple tree. But, lo and behold, the military lynch mob didn't have their way. It would be in civilian courts. Now the damnyankees shit their pants. The damnyankee lawyers shit their pants. Salmon Chase shit his pants. Andrew Johnson shit his pants. In a real court, Davis would be found not guilty. Oh shit! Thus the guilty damnyankees devised a dog and pony show to set Davis free so that they would not be exposed before the world as guilty of treason and of the deaths and destruction of the War Between The States. They would rather the most hated man in the North go free then their guilt exposed. Jeff Davis refused their pardon. Jeff Davis took no loyalty oath to the Union. Jeff Davis said 'stick up your ass'. And they took it and devised a plan to 'free them' from guilt. Typical damnyankee bullshit.
Sing along now. 'Glory, glory, hallelujah....glory, glory, hallelujah, glory, glory, hallelujah,....the north's treason marches on.
Quantrill

If Davis had gone to trial, it would have been a court martial with a noose as the end result.

He was pardoned by operative law. He had no say at all in it. That's over.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

No, Northern Ireland is no comparison to the South.

You have no idea how much the North hated the South.

The War of Southern Aggression would have put down in a welter of blood if necessary.

The war of southern aggression, what a joke. I'll bet you think the war was to free the slaves don't you.

The south was put down in a welter of blood unless you are unfamiliar with Sherman's tactics. If you did have any education about the civil war, get your money back.

 

[jacksonlamb]

The war of southern aggression, what a joke. I'll bet you think the war was to free the slaves don't you.

The south was put down in a welter of blood unless you are unfamiliar with Sherman's tactics. If you did have any education about the civil war, get your money back.

The war was to put down an arrogant South, which was far too big for its britches.

Admit it got its ass beat very, very, very hard.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

No, you got the false Lost Cause nonsense shit. There was no honor in the South, never was.

Had to have been. Otherwise you and those like you wouldn't be so anxious to change it.

Too bad Lincoln was killed, he wanted a round up of blacks and a return to Africa.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Well, E C B, we are waiting for your feline meowing in little kitty rage.

The South lost because a Just and Righteous Jehovah willed it so.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The war was to put down an arrogant South, which was far too big for its britches.

Admit it got its ass beat very, very, very hard.

Yes, it did. Which has not stopped fools from continuing to lie about it.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Yes, it did. Which has not stopped fools from continuing to lie about it.

It deserved what it got. It's entire leadership should have been tried by military tribunal and shot.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Well, E C B, we are waiting for your feline meowing in little kitty rage.

The South lost because a Just and Righteous Jehovah willed it so.

The south lost because Tecumseh Sherman fought with total war meaning no no combatants. He slaughtered women, children, infants, livestock dogs and cats. He poisoned wells and burned fields of crops. Or, did your education skip over Sherman's March to the Sea. I'll bet it did.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It deserved what it got. It's entire leadership should have been tried by military tribunal and shot.

And yet, we still say "God Bless Jefferson Davis ".

 

[Quantrill]

If Davis had gone to trial, it would have been a court martial with a noose as the end result.

He was pardoned by operative law. He had no say at all in it. That's over.

What a stupid statement. Jeff Davis trial was not going to be a 'court martial'. It was to be held in 'real courts' of law. Not a military tribunal (hanging) where the verdict was already guaranteed.

The Constitution, the rule of law would be presented. Which is why Jeff Davis refused the damnyankee pardon. He wanted his trial. He wanted to show the world the guilt of the yankee assholes.

Yankee assholes were pardoned by a dog and pony show that removed any trial against them. Glory, glory,...hallelujah...glory, glory hallelujah, glory, glory hallelujah, yankee treason marches on.

And the damnyankees today aint got the balls to admit it. They stick to their lies. But they can't hide their lies anymore.

Quantrill

 

[jacksonlamb]

And yet, we still say "God Bless Jefferson Davis ".

No one does.

 

[jacksonlamb]

What a stupid statement. Jeff Davis trial was not going to be a 'court martial'. It was to be held in 'real courts' of law. Not a military tribunal (hanging) where the verdict was already guaranteed.

The Constitution, the rule of law would be presented. Which is why Jeff Davis refused the damnyankee pardon. He wanted his trial. He wanted to show the world the guilt of the yankee assholes.

Yankee assholes were pardoned by a dog and pony show that removed any trial against them. Glory, glory,...hallelujah...glory, glory hallelujah, glory, glory hallelujah, yankee treason marches on.

And the damnyankees today aint got the balls to admit it. They stick to their lies. But they can't hide their lies anymore.

Quantrill

It was to be a military tribunal. You will find nothing about about federal court of law.

 

[Quantrill]

It was to be a military tribunal. You will find nothing about about federal court of law.

Keep your crayons handy to use in that history book of yours.

From (Secession on Trial, Cynthia Nicoletti, Cambridge University Press, 2017):

"Johnson had promised to make treason odious, and he was determined that Davis's would be the first--and most important --prosecution." p.(33)

"The particular charge also related to the forum in which his case would be heard--military or civil. Davis's conviction was virtually assured if the trial were to be conducted in a military court, where the procedural protections of the Bill of Rights, including trial by jury, were suspended." p.(33)

"Stanton and Secretary of State William H. Seward emerged as Davis's most zealous opponents, arguing strenuously in favor of trying Davis before a military commission, primarily for his alleged role in Lincoln's assassination and secondarily for the crime of treason. Seward emphasized that a military trial was necessary, as he had no confidence in the proceeding before a civil court." p.(34)

"Seward was focused on achieving the right outcome. He insisted that Davis's trial had to be conducted before a military commission, before a jury of military officials, as there could be no conviction of such a man, for any offense, before any civil tribunal." p.(35)

"Postmaster General William Dennison maintained....Davis should face treason charges only in civil court, as a military commission could try only cases arising under the law of war." p. (35)

"Welles again argued emphatically for the civil court and an arraignment for treason...even if it meant that Davis would not be convicted." p.(35)

"James Harlan disagreed, believing it would be foolhardy to try Davis before a civil court unless satisfied there would be a conviction." p.(35-36)

"The cabinet was divided, and Johson would not act boldly on his own. The case was just too perilous...Attorney General Speed decided to move forward independently. When the cabinet consulted on the Davis matter on August 22, Speed announced that he had retained two well-known lawyers from outside his office to direct the treason prosecution. William M. Evarts of New York City, and John H. Clifford of New Bedford, Massachusetts, with Evarts taking the lead." p. (37-38)

The trial of Jeff Davis for treason would be held in civil court, not a military hanging court.

Quantrill

 

[jacksonlamb]

Keep your crayons handy to use in that history book of yours.

From (Secession on Trial, Cynthia Nicoletti, Cambridge University Press, 2017):

"Johnson had promised to make treason odious, and he was determined that Davis's would be the first--and most important --prosecution." p.(33)

"The particular charge also related to the forum in which his case would be heard--military or civil. Davis's conviction was virtually assured if the trial were to be conducted in a military court, where the procedural protections of the Bill of Rights, including trial by jury, were suspended." p.(33)

"Stanton and Secretary of State William H. Seward emerged as Davis's most zealous opponents, arguing strenuously in favor of trying Davis before a military commission, primarily for his alleged role in Lincoln's assassination and secondarily for the crime of treason. Seward emphasized that a military trial was necessary, as he had no confidence in the proceeding before a civil court." p.(34)

"Seward was focused on achieving the right outcome. He insisted that Davis's trial had to be conducted before a military commission, before a jury of military officials, as there could be no conviction of such a man, for any offense, before any civil tribunal." p.(35)

"Postmaster General William Dennison maintained....Davis should face treason charges only in civil court, as a military commission could try only cases arising under the law of war." p. (35)

"Welles again argued emphatically for the civil court and an arraignment for treason...even if it meant that Davis would not be convicted." p.(35)

"James Harlan disagreed, believing it would be foolhardy to try Davis before a civil court unless satisfied there would be a conviction." p.(35-36)

"The cabinet was divided, and Johson would not act boldly on his own. The case was just too perilous...Attorney General Speed decided to move forward independently. When the cabinet consulted on the Davis matter on August 22, Speed announced that he had retained two well-known lawyers from outside his office to direct the treason prosecution. William M. Evarts of New York City, and John H. Clifford of New Bedford, Massachusetts, with Evarts taking the lead." p. (37-38)

The trial of Jeff Davis for treason would be held in civil court, not a military hanging court.

Quantrill

That was still in discussion, not a conclusion.

He would have been tried by Tribunal. Johnson would have bowed to Seward in this as in most other matters.

 

[DGS49]

I don't personally remember this, but there was valid cause for concern at the time. Davis knew he would be convicted at trial, but his defense would have been that the CSA had a RIGHT TO SECEDE, and there was real concern that if it ever got to the USSC, they would agree, which would have made the entire Civil War illegitimate. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that demanded that States, once they joined the Union, could never leave.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Davis would have been convicted, quickly and easily. SCOTUS would have upheld it quite quickly. Davis would have had the long drop.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

I don't personally remember this, but there was valid cause for concern at the time. Davis knew he would be convicted at trial, but his defense would have been that the CSA had a RIGHT TO SECEDE, and there was real concern that if it ever got to the USSC, they would agree, which would have made the entire Civil War illegitimate. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that demanded that States, once they joined the Union, could never leave.

Hence no trial. It would have proven it was Lincoln who was the war criminal.

They irony here is that Lincoln would have been far more lenient re the South if he hadn't been assassinated.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

I don't personally remember this, but there was valid cause for concern at the time. Davis knew he would be convicted at trial, but his defense would have been that the CSA had a RIGHT TO SECEDE, and there was real concern that if it ever got to the USSC, they would agree, which would have made the entire Civil War illegitimate. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that demanded that States, once they joined the Union, could never leave.

It was Yankees who were constantly threatening to secede over the first 3-4 decades after the Constitution was ratified.

At the Constitutional Convention Madison specifically rejected including a clause that would allow the Federal govt. to use military force against a state, in fact.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Hence no trial. It would have proven it was Lincoln who was the war criminal.

They irony here is that Lincoln would have been far more lenient re the South if he hadn't been assassinated.

Fallacy of false conversion statment.

 

[jacksonlamb]

It was Yankees who were constantly threatening to secede over the first 3-4 decades after the Constitution was ratified.

At the Constitutional Convention Madison specifically rejected including a clause that would allow the Federal govt. to use military force against a state, in fact.

Immaterial.