Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

[Skull Pilot]

Only at first then the savings from getting rid of the bloated government agency will overtake the expense of the transition

Ahhhhhh, a tacit admission that you want to kill SS/Medicare all together ...otherwise that "bloated government agency" must continue to exist, don't you think?

If people were in charge of their own money it wouldn't be needed now would it? So why pay for what's not needed?

 

[Skull Pilot]

It isn't the stock market they fear, it's responsibility.

Leftist drones will suffer any indignity, including death, just so they never have to take blame for the outcomes that affect them. Camp yearns for a dictator to rule over him simply because then his fate will never be his fault.

I don't fear responsibility. Quite the opposite. I fear irresponsibility. In this context, I fear the irresponsibility of the dollar averaged moron Warren Buffet wanna be investors.

Why ar you so fearful? Do you need a psychiatrist?

I've read history.

Really which history?

The history of the stock market than has had positive returns in any 40 year period of its existence?

There are only three independent 40 year periods over the history of reliable stock indices in the U.S. Are you claiming you can do statistics with only three sample points?

Then look at 20 year periods.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

Shit even if you got 7% over your working career that money taken for SS would still amount to over a million dollars in your retirement fund

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you make it mandatory savings just like it is now only people get the choice of where to put it.

.......and you'd be willing to subsidize the BAD choices of where people placed that money???? or.......just let them be destitute?

First right wingers bitch and moan that the educational system sucks big time....then you expect for EVERY citizen to be "investment" savvy.......Moronic.

Of course, you'll say that since people have a choice, only the "smart" ones will benefit and thereby creating yet ANOTHER economic division, right?

Anyone can learn the basics of investing.

It's not up to me to subsidize those that don't care enough about their and their family's future that they won't take some time to learn how to handle their own money.

Well, the country you live in, under both major parties has decided it is up to you. They have confirmed their decision repeatedly and consistently for 80 years. They are have not been as judgmental as you in determining why people have not or do not invest the way you have decided they should. You guys take sore losing to outrageous limits.

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

 

[nat4900]

Hey Idiot people already collecting would be grandfathered in

And if you think investing for the long term and then instituting a systematic withdrawal program are the same as day trading then you're even dumber than I thought and that's saying something.

You're getting pissed and missing the point because you're trying to "defend the indefensible"..............Of course, dimwit, I'm not referring to those grandfathered in....but those FUTURE 90 year olds.......AND, as far as "instituting a systematic withdrawal program"....you're asking people to trust some Wall Streeter's "altruistic good intention" over a government program that you hate....Good luck !!!

 

[nat4900]

Then look at 20 year periods.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

So, once you retire and when your electric and gas bill comes in on a monthly basis, you can tell those companies to wait for payment "when the market again picks up"

 

[nat4900]

So why pay for what's not needed?

So, your little alternate system has NO costs involved......and Wall Street is run by a bunch of Mothers Theresa.

 

[Camp]

.......and you'd be willing to subsidize the BAD choices of where people placed that money???? or.......just let them be destitute?

First right wingers bitch and moan that the educational system sucks big time....then you expect for EVERY citizen to be "investment" savvy.......Moronic.

Of course, you'll say that since people have a choice, only the "smart" ones will benefit and thereby creating yet ANOTHER economic division, right?

Anyone can learn the basics of investing.

It's not up to me to subsidize those that don't care enough about their and their family's future that they won't take some time to learn how to handle their own money.

Well, the country you live in, under both major parties has decided it is up to you. They have confirmed their decision repeatedly and consistently for 80 years. They are have not been as judgmental as you in determining why people have not or do not invest the way you have decided they should. You guys take sore losing to outrageous limits.

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

You keep repeating that 15% of your money false statement. The SS you pay are taxes. The half that the employer pays is a tax also. If relieved of paying that tax to the federal government, why would your employer decide to give it to you?
You keep blowing off points that make privatizing look unworkable and unacceptable. Disability insurance, no big deal. Life insurance, same, no big deal. Exaggerated contributions, lets stay in fantasy land and move on. Finally it boils down to you complaining that your taxes are higher than you want them to be. That is your bottom line. You don't like paying the SS tax. Welcome to the "we want lower taxes" club. Your complaint about spending funds on elderly people is no more valid than someone else's complaint about spending money on defense projects or farm subsidies.
Privatizing is nothing more than a scheme to enrich investment firms and insurance companies. Both of them are big time campaign donors.

 

[GHook93]

Liberals try to say that since social security is necessary (which most conservatives believe), that it's a scared cow that can't be touched. It should be amended and privatized the way the Chilean model was privatized

Again, with the Chilean system???.........Right wingers bitch constantly about the ACA mandates to enroll into a HC system.......BUT would welcome what the Chilean government MANDATES of workers to chip in 10% of their salary....Go Figure the hypocrisy.

Here are some of the criticism of what's happening in Chile:

Critics argue that the Chilean system leaves defenseless those independent workers who do not achieve the 20 years of payments required to gain access to a minimum pension, should their funds run out.

This is not a small problem. According to research by Isabel Márquez, research director at the Institute of Pension Fund Normalization, [Chile’s state-run pension system], in a study of 540 people registered in the system, 60.6% will not accumulate sufficient capital to get the minimum self-financed pension. Of those, 86% will also be unable to achieve the 240 contributions required to obtain a government guarantee. The country’s income levels make this situation worse. According to Marquez, 50.8% of all workers who belong to the system have incomes below 200,000 Chilean pesos a month (about $340.)

Chile s Pension Reform An Inspiration to Others - Knowledge Wharton

The ACA has not brought about what it promised and that is what most people have issues with, not just conservatives.

We already get money pulled from our paychecks for SS payments. The Chilean system works and that is why it is spreading like wild fire throughout Latin America, even the socialist in Latin America are adopting this.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hey Idiot people already collecting would be grandfathered in

And if you think investing for the long term and then instituting a systematic withdrawal program are the same as day trading then you're even dumber than I thought and that's saying something.

You're getting pissed and missing the point because you're trying to "defend the indefensible"..............Of course, dimwit, I'm not referring to those grandfathered in....but those FUTURE 90 year olds.......AND, as far as "instituting a systematic withdrawal program"....you're asking people to trust some Wall Streeter's "altruistic good intention" over a government program that you hate....Good luck !!!

It has nothing to do with Wall Street.

You don't need to have anyone manage your money for you. You can go on line and buy mutual funds and ETFs . You can control your own asset allocation to fit in with your own risk aversion and age. When you retire you can pick a safe harbor for your nest egg

And if the fucking government really cared about your well being then it would want you to get a better return on the 15% of your lifetime earnings it takes than a piddly check of 2K a month.

And it wouldn't be raping people's retirement savings in a 401k by taxing the gains as regular income.

Why on earth would you think the fucking government is acting in your best interest?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then look at 20 year periods.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

So, once you retire and when your electric and gas bill comes in on a monthly basis, you can tell those companies to wait for payment "when the market again picks up"

Please read a fucking book on long term investing and then living on a portfolio.

There are even calculators on line that will tell you how long your savings will last.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Anyone can learn the basics of investing.

It's not up to me to subsidize those that don't care enough about their and their family's future that they won't take some time to learn how to handle their own money.

Well, the country you live in, under both major parties has decided it is up to you. They have confirmed their decision repeatedly and consistently for 80 years. They are have not been as judgmental as you in determining why people have not or do not invest the way you have decided they should. You guys take sore losing to outrageous limits.

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

You keep repeating that 15% of your money false statement. The SS you pay are taxes. The half that the employer pays is a tax also. If relieved of paying that tax to the federal government, why would your employer decide to give it to you?
You keep blowing off points that make privatizing look unworkable and unacceptable. Disability insurance, no big deal. Life insurance, same, no big deal. Exaggerated contributions, lets stay in fantasy land and move on. Finally it boils down to you complaining that your taxes are higher than you want them to be. That is your bottom line. You don't like paying the SS tax. Welcome to the "we want lower taxes" club. Your complaint about spending funds on elderly people is no more valid than someone else's complaint about spending money on defense projects or farm subsidies.
Privatizing is nothing more than a scheme to enrich investment firms and insurance companies. Both of them are big time campaign donors.

If companies are forced to put matching funds into employees private accounts they'll start rolling back their own fund matching in other private accounts.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So why pay for what's not needed?

So, your little alternate system has NO costs involved......and Wall Street is run by a bunch of Mothers Theresa.

I don't pay anyone anything to manage my money.

Mutual funds have fully disclosed fees and sales costs. Some MFs have no sales costs.

If I trade in ETFs it only costs me a few bucks per transaction on E trade

 

[Skull Pilot]

Anyone can learn the basics of investing.

It's not up to me to subsidize those that don't care enough about their and their family's future that they won't take some time to learn how to handle their own money.

Well, the country you live in, under both major parties has decided it is up to you. They have confirmed their decision repeatedly and consistently for 80 years. They are have not been as judgmental as you in determining why people have not or do not invest the way you have decided they should. You guys take sore losing to outrageous limits.

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

You keep repeating that 15% of your money false statement. The SS you pay are taxes. The half that the employer pays is a tax also. If relieved of paying that tax to the federal government, why would your employer decide to give it to you?
You keep blowing off points that make privatizing look unworkable and unacceptable. Disability insurance, no big deal. Life insurance, same, no big deal. Exaggerated contributions, lets stay in fantasy land and move on. Finally it boils down to you complaining that your taxes are higher than you want them to be. That is your bottom line. You don't like paying the SS tax. Welcome to the "we want lower taxes" club. Your complaint about spending funds on elderly people is no more valid than someone else's complaint about spending money on defense projects or farm subsidies.
Privatizing is nothing more than a scheme to enrich investment firms and insurance companies. Both of them are big time campaign donors.

Your employer is already forced to give it to you so what does it matter to the employer if he gives it to the government or to you?

You are already forced to give your contribution to the government so what's the difference if you are forced to save it in an account where you can exercise choice where the money goes?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't fear responsibility. Quite the opposite. I fear irresponsibility. In this context, I fear the irresponsibility of the dollar averaged moron Warren Buffet wanna be investors.

Why ar you so fearful? Do you need a psychiatrist?

I've read history.

Really which history?

The history of the stock market than has had positive returns in any 40 year period of its existence?

There are only three independent 40 year periods over the history of reliable stock indices in the U.S. Are you claiming you can do statistics with only three sample points?

Then look at 20 year periods.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

Shit even if you got 7% over your working career that money taken for SS would still amount to over a million dollars in your retirement fund

Eventually as the population ages you'll have more and more older people selling stock and fewer and fewer younger people buying stock.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well, the country you live in, under both major parties has decided it is up to you. They have confirmed their decision repeatedly and consistently for 80 years. They are have not been as judgmental as you in determining why people have not or do not invest the way you have decided they should. You guys take sore losing to outrageous limits.

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

You keep repeating that 15% of your money false statement. The SS you pay are taxes. The half that the employer pays is a tax also. If relieved of paying that tax to the federal government, why would your employer decide to give it to you?
You keep blowing off points that make privatizing look unworkable and unacceptable. Disability insurance, no big deal. Life insurance, same, no big deal. Exaggerated contributions, lets stay in fantasy land and move on. Finally it boils down to you complaining that your taxes are higher than you want them to be. That is your bottom line. You don't like paying the SS tax. Welcome to the "we want lower taxes" club. Your complaint about spending funds on elderly people is no more valid than someone else's complaint about spending money on defense projects or farm subsidies.
Privatizing is nothing more than a scheme to enrich investment firms and insurance companies. Both of them are big time campaign donors.

If companies are forced to put matching funds into employees private accounts they'll start rolling back their own fund matching in other private accounts.

They are already forced to match the FICA contributions so what's your point?

 

[NYcarbineer]

More liberal demagoguery. Bush is talking about privatizing SS for people who are under a certain age--like 50 or 55. If you already have SS, this would not affect you. If you are over 50 or 55, you could choose to stay in SS or opt out and get a reduced benefit. If you're under the age cutoff, then you would have the opportunity to take your SS tax money and invest it as you saw fit.

Are liberals not aware that most private companies have changed from defined-benefit plans to 401Ks? That is basically all the government would be doing by changing from SS to 401Ks and IRAs.

What happens to all the payroll tax the 49 year old made, possibly for 30 years?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why ar you so fearful? Do you need a psychiatrist?

I've read history.

Really which history?

The history of the stock market than has had positive returns in any 40 year period of its existence?

There are only three independent 40 year periods over the history of reliable stock indices in the U.S. Are you claiming you can do statistics with only three sample points?

Then look at 20 year periods.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

Shit even if you got 7% over your working career that money taken for SS would still amount to over a million dollars in your retirement fund

Eventually as the population ages you'll have more and more older people selling stock and fewer and fewer younger people buying stock.

So?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

You keep repeating that 15% of your money false statement. The SS you pay are taxes. The half that the employer pays is a tax also. If relieved of paying that tax to the federal government, why would your employer decide to give it to you?
You keep blowing off points that make privatizing look unworkable and unacceptable. Disability insurance, no big deal. Life insurance, same, no big deal. Exaggerated contributions, lets stay in fantasy land and move on. Finally it boils down to you complaining that your taxes are higher than you want them to be. That is your bottom line. You don't like paying the SS tax. Welcome to the "we want lower taxes" club. Your complaint about spending funds on elderly people is no more valid than someone else's complaint about spending money on defense projects or farm subsidies.
Privatizing is nothing more than a scheme to enrich investment firms and insurance companies. Both of them are big time campaign donors.

If companies are forced to put matching funds into employees private accounts they'll start rolling back their own fund matching in other private accounts.

They are already forced to match the FICA contributions so what's your point?

They don't have to match 401k contributions.

 

[Skull Pilot]

More liberal demagoguery. Bush is talking about privatizing SS for people who are under a certain age--like 50 or 55. If you already have SS, this would not affect you. If you are over 50 or 55, you could choose to stay in SS or opt out and get a reduced benefit. If you're under the age cutoff, then you would have the opportunity to take your SS tax money and invest it as you saw fit.

Are liberals not aware that most private companies have changed from defined-benefit plans to 401Ks? That is basically all the government would be doing by changing from SS to 401Ks and IRAs.

What happens to all the payroll tax the 49 year old made, possibly for 30 years?

You mean the payroll taxes that were taken from him don't you?

 

[Camp]

Well, the country you live in, under both major parties has decided it is up to you. They have confirmed their decision repeatedly and consistently for 80 years. They are have not been as judgmental as you in determining why people have not or do not invest the way you have decided they should. You guys take sore losing to outrageous limits.

I don't tell anyone how to invest so why the fuck should you and the government take 15% of my income and then give me some piddly monthly check?

That choice literally will cost me millions of dollars in lost opportunity

It is a tax imposed on you by your countrymen who have decided it is every ones duty to contribute to a level of support for old people. Unless and until you accept it for what it is and not what you have been brainwashed into believing is a personal pension plan or retirement portfolio you will simply wallow in you misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what SS is. The government gives you opportunities for retirement investments you can control. SS is not one of them.

15% of my lifetime income is a pretty steep fucking price. And the potential return lost on that money is even steeper

And just because the 95% of you who are sheep is no reason for me to be satisfied with the theft of what could be millions of dollars from my net worth

You keep repeating that 15% of your money false statement. The SS you pay are taxes. The half that the employer pays is a tax also. If relieved of paying that tax to the federal government, why would your employer decide to give it to you?
You keep blowing off points that make privatizing look unworkable and unacceptable. Disability insurance, no big deal. Life insurance, same, no big deal. Exaggerated contributions, lets stay in fantasy land and move on. Finally it boils down to you complaining that your taxes are higher than you want them to be. That is your bottom line. You don't like paying the SS tax. Welcome to the "we want lower taxes" club. Your complaint about spending funds on elderly people is no more valid than someone else's complaint about spending money on defense projects or farm subsidies.
Privatizing is nothing more than a scheme to enrich investment firms and insurance companies. Both of them are big time campaign donors.

Your employer is already forced to give it to you so what does it matter to the employer if he gives it to the government or to you?

You are already forced to give your contribution to the government so what's the difference if you are forced to save it in an account where you can exercise choice where the money goes?

The funds your employer pays in taxes does not go into some personal fund that you keep spouting off about. It doesn't exist. It is a tax. What you are suggesting is that the government force your employer to give tax funds like cash directly to and for your financial benefit. What other system does the government have that forces employers to give you money instead of paying taxes. Interesting concept.