Japanese abandon six nuclear reactors

[Chris]

The spent rods are also not in reactors. That is why they are called spent rods, Idiot.

Want to try again?

The spent rods are being kept in a containment pool of water. After that, they are moved outside the facility to an onsite area.

Exactly my point. The OP claimed that 3 reactor cores had no containment buildings. When I called him on that he started babbling about spent fuel rods and suppression pools.

There is no fuel in reactors 4, 5, and 6, except the spent rods with no containment vessels.

Do you get it now?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The ongoing radioactivity releases from damaged nuclear reactors in Japan after last week's historic earthquake are creating "one of the most challenging humanitarian operations ever conducted," according to Cmdr. Jeff Davis, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's 7th Fleet in Japan.

Davis said Tuesday that for the second time, U.S. helicopter crews have been exposed to elevated, albeit low, levels of radiation during flights near Japan's nuclear reactors. In addition, the Navy is moving three incoming ships to a new location because of "radiological and navigation hazards" at their intended destination on the eastern coast of Honshu, according to Davis.

Just as in an incident on Sunday, the crew members were stripped of contaminated clothing, scrubbed down with soap and water and tested. In all cases, they no longer tested positive for radiation exposure.

On Sunday, tests detected low levels of radioactivity on 17 U.S. Navy helicopter crew members when they returned to the USS Ronald Reagan after conducting disaster relief missions in Japan, the military said Monday.

Navy says radiation releases pose challenging environment - CNN.com

People who live on top of 6 nuclear reactors always find it challenging when politicians tell them that they cannot get closer than 50 miles to a nuclear reactor.

Just saying.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

600-1000 millisiervients which is nearly a lifetime dose.

No water in the fuel tank holding fuel for #4 reactor, and workers can't even do the minimal work to try to restore water because radiation levels too high.

A US team pulled out and is heading home because it is too dangerous to work.

It's all coming unglued.

I guess that depends on where you live. In parts of the Iran, India, and Europe it would take 20 years to reach that dose level, and I am pretty sure they live around 3 to 4 times that long.

BBC News - Q&A: Health effects of radiation exposure

Thank you for contributing to the hype and panic and making the world a worse place to live.

 

[Ravi]

There are articles mentioning radiation in Tokyo. Just pointing out that there is a lot of media hype going on. The folks in charge in Japan don't fully understand what is/has happened because it's still unfolding so how the media can print things like 'Chernobyl Happening' and the like need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I have read and heard that radiation has been detected in Tokyo but a low levels that are not dangerous. Not sure how that is considered media hype.

If you have granite counter tops in your house they will peg a Geiger counter. Radiation is always detectable, so pointing out that some has been detected is the equivalent of pointing out that we breathe air. Why mention it unless you are trying to scare people?

Higher levels of radiation than normal.

Nice to see how easily you place your trust in the government when you want to believe.

 

[skeptic]

from your article:

Exposure to moderate levels of radiation - above one gray - can result in radiation sickness, which produces a range of symptoms.

Nausea and vomiting often begin within hours of exposure, followed by diarrhoea, headaches and fever.

After the first round of symptoms, there may be a brief period with no apparent illness, but this may be followed within weeks by new, more serious symptoms.

At higher levels of radiation, all of these symptoms may be immediately apparent, along with widespread - and potentially fatal - damage to internal organs.

Exposure to a radiation dose of four gray will typically kill about half of all healthy adults.

For comparison, radiation therapy for cancer typically involves several doses of between one and seven gray at a time - but these doses are highly controlled, and usually specifically targeted at small areas of the body.

A sievert is essentially equivalent to a gray, but tends to be used to measure lower levels of radiation, and for assessing long-term risk, rather than the short-term acute impact of exposure.

My understanding is that 1000 millisiervierts = 1 gray.

Yes, it does Sievert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, you were saying what exactly?

 

[Ravi]

Hey, Windbag...how about you go on over there and see what is really going on and report back to us?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The spent rods are being kept in a containment pool of water. After that, they are moved outside the facility to an onsite area.

Exactly my point. The OP claimed that 3 reactor cores had no containment buildings. When I called him on that he started babbling about spent fuel rods and suppression pools.

There is no fuel in reactors 4, 5, and 6, except the spent rods with no containment vessels.

Do you get it now?

I see.

What you are actually lying about is something else. You say there are 6 reactors, 4 of which have partial meltdowns, and 3 of them have no fuel in the core.

4 + 3 = 6

 

[Valerie]

I have read and heard that radiation has been detected in Tokyo but a low levels that are not dangerous. Not sure how that is considered media hype.

If you have granite counter tops in your house they will peg a Geiger counter. Radiation is always detectable, so pointing out that some has been detected is the equivalent of pointing out that we breathe air. Why mention it unless you are trying to scare people?

Higher levels of radiation than normal.

Nice to see how easily you place your trust in the government when you want to believe.

IIRC...He was one crying over the airport scanner radiation exposure?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have read and heard that radiation has been detected in Tokyo but a low levels that are not dangerous. Not sure how that is considered media hype.

If you have granite counter tops in your house they will peg a Geiger counter. Radiation is always detectable, so pointing out that some has been detected is the equivalent of pointing out that we breathe air. Why mention it unless you are trying to scare people?

Higher levels of radiation than normal.

Nice to see how easily you place your trust in the government when you want to believe.

Granite counter tops have a higher radiation level than normal background radiation. A lot higher than the 10 to 20 times being reported in Tokyo.

Nice to see how easy it is for you to miss my point.

 

[Old Rocks]

Nuclear Power Plant Explosion | Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant | Nuclear Accident

Now, a fifth reactor at the power plant complex is losing water level. The operators are using the (what seems to be) undamaged emergency diesel generator from Unit No. 6 to make enough electricity so that both Units No. 5 and 6 can run the pumps necessary to keep their cores covered with water. The operators at Fukushima seem to be doing as good a job as the situation allows. They should be commended.


Also this morning (March 16), it has been reported that the fire in the refueling deck area of Unit No. 4 has re-ignited. It took nearly three hours to put this one out largely due to a reduced workforce at the power plant complex. The reactor was not on fire, which was broadcast by a few news media outlets.

Also, the previous press reports of the containment structural damage at Unit No. 3 releasing raw radioactive steam into the outside environment, were incorrect. As we now know has been the case with Unit No. 4, the steam being seen is coming from the evaporation of the Unit No. 3 spent fuel pool. Not the reactor containment itself. It seems the containment is still doing its job quite well. Hey, three foot thick, steel reinforced concrete is pretty darn difficult to blow open.

 

[k2skier]

Six abandoned reactors...four with partial meltdowns and three with spent fuel rods and no containment vessel. This is a disaster of the first magnitude for the people of Japan.

Unbelievable!

No containment vessels? Disaster of the first magnitude? Are you always this ridiculously over the top?

Here are a few facts for you to ponder.

All of the reactors at Fukushima Daiichi are completely shutdown. They have been shutdown since the quake first occured, and were offline before the tsunami hit the plant.

It is probable that one containment vessel is cracked, the other five are intact.

There is absolutely no way that a total meltdown can occur. The only heat left is residual heat from the reaction before the shutdown.
Even if they stopped the cooling efforts completely there would be no dangerous plume of radioactive materials.

The only danger that exists is from panic and ignorance. I want to thank you for making the world a more dangerous place. I hope your pathetic life feels a little more real as a result of your attempt to spread misinformation and fear, because it is the last time I know just how stupid you are know, and will gladly point it out to everyone. You have just succeeded in making rdean look like an intelligent, well informed, and moderate person.

If anyone wants to know what the real problem is that Japan faces I suggest you look at the photos of the devastation left by the tsunami. For those who want a reference to show that I actually know what I am talking about I would suggest that you read this essay by a Nuclear Engineer.

Anti-Nuclear Press Puts Japanese Lives at Risk - By Robert Zubrin - The Corner - National Review Online

Do you put your foot in your ignorant mouth often? Or is this a special occasion?

Questions persisted for decades about the ability of the Mark 1 to handle the immense pressures that would result if the reactor lost cooling power

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest

The problems we identified in 1975 were that, in doing the design of the containment, they did not take into account the dynamic loads that could be experienced with a loss of coolant,"

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest - ABC News

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you have granite counter tops in your house they will peg a Geiger counter. Radiation is always detectable, so pointing out that some has been detected is the equivalent of pointing out that we breathe air. Why mention it unless you are trying to scare people?

Higher levels of radiation than normal.

Nice to see how easily you place your trust in the government when you want to believe.

IIRC...He was one crying over the airport scanner radiation exposure?

No.

I was pointing out that the type of radiation from one of the two scanners being used is ionizing radiation, which has been proven to have harmful effects in smaller doses than the government is saying is safe. There is a difference between normal background radiation from radioactivity and that generated by machines that are designed in such a way as to penetrate the top layers of your skin and reflect off your cells. One is something we live with, and the other is something we should avoid because it is more dangerous than normal x-rays.

 

[Valerie]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Six abandoned reactors...four with partial meltdowns and three with spent fuel rods and no containment vessel. This is a disaster of the first magnitude for the people of Japan.

Unbelievable!

No containment vessels? Disaster of the first magnitude? Are you always this ridiculously over the top?

Here are a few facts for you to ponder.

All of the reactors at Fukushima Daiichi are completely shutdown. They have been shutdown since the quake first occured, and were offline before the tsunami hit the plant.

It is probable that one containment vessel is cracked, the other five are intact.

There is absolutely no way that a total meltdown can occur. The only heat left is residual heat from the reaction before the shutdown.
Even if they stopped the cooling efforts completely there would be no dangerous plume of radioactive materials.

The only danger that exists is from panic and ignorance. I want to thank you for making the world a more dangerous place. I hope your pathetic life feels a little more real as a result of your attempt to spread misinformation and fear, because it is the last time I know just how stupid you are know, and will gladly point it out to everyone. You have just succeeded in making rdean look like an intelligent, well informed, and moderate person.

If anyone wants to know what the real problem is that Japan faces I suggest you look at the photos of the devastation left by the tsunami. For those who want a reference to show that I actually know what I am talking about I would suggest that you read this essay by a Nuclear Engineer.

Anti-Nuclear Press Puts Japanese Lives at Risk - By Robert Zubrin - The Corner - National Review Online

Do you put your foot in your ignorant mouth often? Or is this a special occasion?

Questions persisted for decades about the ability of the Mark 1 to handle the immense pressures that would result if the reactor lost cooling power

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest

The problems we identified in 1975 were that, in doing the design of the containment, they did not take into account the dynamic loads that could be experienced with a loss of coolant,"

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest - ABC News

Ancient history.

The fact is that all of the reactors completely shut down, just as they were designed to do in the even of an earthquake. There were no breaches during the 40 years of operation despite the concerns you point out, and the danger now is not from the pressure sustained during the reaction, it is from a complete failure of all backup cooling systems because a tsunami wiped out both the backup generators and the grid supply of power that would normally be used to run the pumps. Something I feel free to point out that not even the people with 20/20 hindsight foresaw.

 

[Ravi]

If you have granite counter tops in your house they will peg a Geiger counter. Radiation is always detectable, so pointing out that some has been detected is the equivalent of pointing out that we breathe air. Why mention it unless you are trying to scare people?

Higher levels of radiation than normal.

Nice to see how easily you place your trust in the government when you want to believe.

IIRC...He was one crying over the airport scanner radiation exposure?

Yep, airport scanners: bad. Nuclear meltdowns: no big deal.

 

[k2skier]

No containment vessels? Disaster of the first magnitude? Are you always this ridiculously over the top?

Here are a few facts for you to ponder.

All of the reactors at Fukushima Daiichi are completely shutdown. They have been shutdown since the quake first occured, and were offline before the tsunami hit the plant.

It is probable that one containment vessel is cracked, the other five are intact.

There is absolutely no way that a total meltdown can occur. The only heat left is residual heat from the reaction before the shutdown.
Even if they stopped the cooling efforts completely there would be no dangerous plume of radioactive materials.

The only danger that exists is from panic and ignorance. I want to thank you for making the world a more dangerous place. I hope your pathetic life feels a little more real as a result of your attempt to spread misinformation and fear, because it is the last time I know just how stupid you are know, and will gladly point it out to everyone. You have just succeeded in making rdean look like an intelligent, well informed, and moderate person.

If anyone wants to know what the real problem is that Japan faces I suggest you look at the photos of the devastation left by the tsunami. For those who want a reference to show that I actually know what I am talking about I would suggest that you read this essay by a Nuclear Engineer.

Anti-Nuclear Press Puts Japanese Lives at Risk - By Robert Zubrin - The Corner - National Review Online

Do you put your foot in your ignorant mouth often? Or is this a special occasion?

Questions persisted for decades about the ability of the Mark 1 to handle the immense pressures that would result if the reactor lost cooling power

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest

The problems we identified in 1975 were that, in doing the design of the containment, they did not take into account the dynamic loads that could be experienced with a loss of coolant,"

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest - ABC News

Ancient history.

The fact is that all of the reactors completely shut down, just as they were designed to do in the even of an earthquake. There were no breaches during the 40 years of operation despite the concerns you point out, and the danger now is not from the pressure sustained during the reaction, it is from a complete failure of all backup cooling systems because a tsunami wiped out both the backup generators and the grid supply of power that would normally be used to run the pumps. Something I feel free to point out that not even the people with 20/20 hindsight foresaw.

Try reading, (with comprehension this time) the whole article, then read up on GE Mark 1 reactors...They were a poor design and had to be retro fitted with upgrades that MAY help under catastrophic failures, like they have now.

To say it's impossible for a complete meltdown is beyond ignorant at this point, pure speculation...

Undoubtedly, he said, the containment structures at that Fukushima Daiichi plant are facing significant amounts of pressure -- and testing the very questions he was studying on paper more than three decades earlier. While he knew then that the Mark 1 had design limits, he said, no one knows now whether those limits will be surpassed.

 

[Valerie]

Do you put your foot in your ignorant mouth often? Or is this a special occasion?

Questions persisted for decades about the ability of the Mark 1 to handle the immense pressures that would result if the reactor lost cooling power

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest

The problems we identified in 1975 were that, in doing the design of the containment, they did not take into account the dynamic loads that could be experienced with a loss of coolant,"

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest - ABC News

Ancient history.

The fact is that all of the reactors completely shut down, just as they were designed to do in the even of an earthquake. There were no breaches during the 40 years of operation despite the concerns you point out, and the danger now is not from the pressure sustained during the reaction, it is from a complete failure of all backup cooling systems because a tsunami wiped out both the backup generators and the grid supply of power that would normally be used to run the pumps. Something I feel free to point out that not even the people with 20/20 hindsight foresaw.

Try reading, (with comprehension this time) the whole arcticle, then read up on GE Mark 1 reactors...

Undoubtedly, he said, the containment structures at that Fukushima Daiichi plant are facing significant amounts of pressure -- and testing the very questions he was studying on paper more than three decades earlier. While he knew then that the Mark 1 had design limits, he said, no one knows now whether those limits will be surpassed.

I was just reading about that!

GE Trio Quit in 1970s Over Japan Reactor Design

GE Trio Quit in 1970s Over Japan Reactor Design, ABC Says - Bloomberg

 

[k2skier]

General Electric Mark 1 Reactor ‘Cheaper and Easier’ to Build | Taylor Marsh – TaylorMarsh.com – News, Opinion and Weblog on Progressive Politics

The warnings were stark and issued repeatedly as far back as 1972: If the cooling systems ever failed at a “Mark 1” nuclear reactor, the primary containment vessel surrounding the reactor would probably burst as the fuel rods inside overheated. Dangerous radiation would spew into the environment.

Now, with one Mark 1 containment vessel damaged at the embattled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant and other vessels there under severe strain, the weaknesses of the design — developed in the 1960s by General Electric — could be contributing to the unfolding catastrophe.



G.E. began making the Mark 1 boiling-water reactors in the 1960s, marketing them as cheaper and easier to build — in part because they used a comparatively smaller and less expensive containment structure.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do you put your foot in your ignorant mouth often? Or is this a special occasion?

Questions persisted for decades about the ability of the Mark 1 to handle the immense pressures that would result if the reactor lost cooling power

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest

The problems we identified in 1975 were that, in doing the design of the containment, they did not take into account the dynamic loads that could be experienced with a loss of coolant,"

Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientist To Quit In Protest - ABC News

Ancient history.

The fact is that all of the reactors completely shut down, just as they were designed to do in the even of an earthquake. There were no breaches during the 40 years of operation despite the concerns you point out, and the danger now is not from the pressure sustained during the reaction, it is from a complete failure of all backup cooling systems because a tsunami wiped out both the backup generators and the grid supply of power that would normally be used to run the pumps. Something I feel free to point out that not even the people with 20/20 hindsight foresaw.

Try reading, (with comprehension this time) the whole article, then read up on GE Mark 1 reactors...They were a poor design and had to be retro fitted with upgrades that MAY help under catastrophic failures, like they have now.

To say it's impossible for a complete meltdown is beyond ignorant at this point, pure speculation...

Undoubtedly, he said, the containment structures at that Fukushima Daiichi plant are facing significant amounts of pressure -- and testing the very questions he was studying on paper more than three decades earlier. While he knew then that the Mark 1 had design limits, he said, no one knows now whether those limits will be surpassed.

I already admitted the design is considered to be flawed. How does that change my point that they have worked until now?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

General Electric Mark 1 Reactor ‘Cheaper and Easier’ to Build*|*Taylor Marsh – TaylorMarsh.com – News, Opinion and Weblog on Progressive Politics

The warnings were stark and issued repeatedly as far back as 1972: If the cooling systems ever failed at a “Mark 1” nuclear reactor, the primary containment vessel surrounding the reactor would probably burst as the fuel rods inside overheated. Dangerous radiation would spew into the environment.

Now, with one Mark 1 containment vessel damaged at the embattled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant and other vessels there under severe strain, the weaknesses of the design — developed in the 1960s by General Electric — could be contributing to the unfolding catastrophe.



G.E. began making the Mark 1 boiling-water reactors in the 1960s, marketing them as cheaper and easier to build — in part because they used a comparatively smaller and less expensive containment structure.

Yet they have not burst, despite your attempts to make me fear for all life on the planet.