Jane Roe going to Supreme Court.....

[Mr. P]

Isn't that kind of like asking for a link to a statement like, there are clouds? At the point of conception is when human development begins, or in the case of a chicken where that chicken's development begins ergo the beginning of life.

No, not at all..she stated...

Life begins at moment of conception-period.

I take that as a factual statement on her part..So, I'd just like to see the factual proof.

There are clouds.

Is a statement that can be proven.

 

[dilloduck]

No, not at all..she stated...
I take that as a factual statement on her part..So, I'd just like to see the factual proof.
Is a statement that can be proven.

a fact that also an be proven is that this "thing" was created from the cells from a man and a woman. I think maybe we can all agree on that. Why is it that only the woman has a choice in this matter ??

 

[Mr. P]

No link,just my belief. ...

Okay...maybe you may want to phrase it that way.."My belief is".

Don't get me wrong,I'm not saying that you don't have morals if you believe in abortion,just that yours and mine don't click.

Why does everyone make the assumption that if you ask a question of a Pro-Life person you are Pro-Abortion?

 

[no1tovote4]

No, not at all..she stated...
I take that as a factual statement on her part..So, I'd just like to see the factual proof.
Is a statement that can be proven.

My point is, where else would life begin? Simply a question. I explained why I thought it was as obvious as the clouds. But if necessary I will attempt to find a link.

 

[krisy]

a fact that also an be proven is that this "thing" was created from the cells from a man and a woman. I think maybe we can all agree on that. Why is it that only the woman has a choice in this matter ??

This is another problem I have with abortion....the father has no say. Why don't father's have rights as well? He is fully expected to take care of the child when he or she is born. It's simply not fair or right.

 

[Mr. P]

either one.

So then, what your saying is...Since you had a one night stand and she got pregnant, and do to complications she may die, You as THE FATHER have the choice of her or the fetus living, but she doesn't?

 

[krisy]

Okay...maybe you may want to phrase it that way.."My belief is".

Why does everyone make the assumption that if you ask a question of a Pro-Life person you are Pro-Abortion?

Mr. P, I got from an earlier post of yours that you weren't necessarily pro choice,but maybe didn't believe that Roe V Wade should be overturned. When I said that maybe your and my morals just don't click,I meant more generally. Anyone that is pro choice.

 

[krisy]

So then, what your saying is...Since you had a one night stand and she got pregnant, and do to complications she may die, You as THE FATHER have the choice of her or the fetus living, but she doesn't?

Good point,and that issue needs to be dealt with somehow( I really don't know ). But,I have a funny feeling that most abortions are done simply because the mother just doesn't want the child. We won't know for sure because a woman can walk in and say anything ot nothing at all. She doesn't need an excuse to have one.

 

[Mr. P]

My point is, where else would life begin? Simply a question. I explained why I thought it was as obvious as the clouds. But if necessary I will attempt to find a link.

First note..I asked for a differentiation between 'Life' and 'Living'.

 

[dilloduck]

So then, what your saying is...Since you had a one night stand and she got pregnant, and do to complications she may die, You as THE FATHER have the choice of her or the fetus living, but she doesn't?

whoa dude----you went straight to the extreme here. Let's try the moderate aspects of my posit first.

 

[no1tovote4]

First note..I asked for a differentiation between 'Life' and 'Living'.

My assertion is there would be none. Therefore no existing scientific link that would define a difference in those. One, life, is provable the other is a state of mind, living, and not provable but based in opinion. The original statement is life begins at conception and I would reassert that with the above statements.

 

[Mr. P]

whoa dude----you went straight to the extreme here. Let's try the moderate aspects of my posit first.

Whoa? No..the anti-folks are always dealing in extremes..Fair is fair.
If one is anti-abortion, then one is anti-abortion...If there are exceptions, well
then they may be more Pro-Choice.

 

[dilloduck]

Whoa? No..the anti-folks are always dealing in extremes..Fair is fair.
If one is anti-abortion, then one is anti-abortion...If there are exceptions, well
then they may be more Pro-Choice.

np I'll take it from there----first of all if the mothers own life is in REAL danger the the choice should be hers alone----If not, the father should have an opportunity to keep his child--married or not.

 

[no1tovote4]

np I'll take it from there----first of all if the mothers own life is in REAL danger the the choice should be hers alone----If not, the father should have an opportunity to keep his child--married or not.

If we assert that Abortion is a choice of the mother, in order to make it logically equal it would be her choice whether to carry the baby or not but it should be the father's choice whether to support it or not as well.

If the father can be forced to pay for the baby even though he wished for it to be aborted, then the mother should not have the right to end a pregnancy if the father should wish to care for the child. Since the Mother does have a legal right to the choice of carrying the child, and she can force the Father to pay regardless of his feelings about the child all of the "rights" in those cases are lopsided and against males on a whole.

 

[dilloduck]

If we assert that Abortion is a choice of the mother, in order to make it logically equal it would be her choice whether to carry the baby or not but it should be the father's choice whether to support it or not as well.

If the father can be forced to pay for the baby even though he wished for it to be aborted, then the mother should not have the right to end a pregnancy if the father should wish to care for the child. Since the Mother does have a legal right to the choice of carrying the child, and she can force the Father to pay regardless of his feelings about the child all of the "rights" in those cases are lopsided and against males on a whole.

agreed---logically equal must be an oxymoron I guess

face it---pro-choicers simply want women to be in total charge of reproduction.

 

[krisy]

agreed---logically equal must be an oxymoron I guess

face it---pro-choicers simply want women to be in total charge of reproduction.

That's true. I just can't imagine being a father and wanting and loving a growing child and having the mother abort that child for no reason other than the child is not convenient. I'm wondering dillo,how were things before abortion was legal? I was born in 1973. I have never thought to ask my parents for some reason. Mom was born in 51 and dad in 46. What I mean is,I guess if you got prego than that's just the way it was? You dealt with it and gave the baby up for adoption?

 

[no1tovote4]

That's true. I just can't imagine being a father and wanting and loving a growing child and having the mother abort that child for no reason other than the child is not convenient. I'm wondering dillo,how were things before abortion was legal? I was born in 1973. I have never thought to ask my parents for some reason. Mom was born in 51 and dad in 46. What I mean is,I guess if you got prego than that's just the way it was? You dealt with it and gave the baby up for adoption?

Often abortions were performed illegally. Those that didn't get abortions would often "go on vacation" for about 9 months and come back with no child, they were usually given up for adoption.

There were many deaths due to no Anti-bacterial drugs such as Penecillin. Even the back-door abortions done in doctor's offices were often fraught with peril for the woman. When Penecillin became a reality and regularly used this process was made more safe for women, even the illegal ones, and about six years later abortion became legal due to Roe v. Wade and the argument became moot.

 

[Bonnie]

np I'll take it from there----first of all if the mothers own life is in REAL danger the the choice should be hers alone----If not, the father should have an opportunity to keep his child--married or not.

100% with you on this!!!! It is extremely unfair that fathers married to moms, or not, get no say in the baby they are 50% responsible for creating.............

But intellectually you and I both know why this is done the way it is!!

 

[Bonnie]

That's true. I just can't imagine being a father and wanting and loving a growing child and having the mother abort that child for no reason other than the child is not convenient. I'm wondering dillo,how were things before abortion was legal? I was born in 1973. I have never thought to ask my parents for some reason. Mom was born in 51 and dad in 46. What I mean is,I guess if you got prego than that's just the way it was? You dealt with it and gave the baby up for adoption?

I think a few went to Cuba in the 60's? But you are right, back then people did cope rightly or wrongly... at least the baby stood a chance of living and being loved by adoptive parents. No chance now, and no say now either!

 

[krisy]

Often abortions were performed illegally. Those that didn't get abortions would often "go on vacation" for about 9 months and come back with no child, they were usually given up for adoption.

There were many deaths due to no Anti-bacterial drugs such as Penecillin. Even the back-door abortions done in doctor's offices were often fraught with peril for the woman. When Penecillin became a reality and regularly used this process was made more safe for women, even the illegal ones, and about six years later abortion became legal due to Roe v. Wade and the argument became moot.

I guess I knew the good part of the answer on that one. My mom's mom was 16 years old and pregnant in 1950. Can you imagine?!!! She was taken out of school,I know that much. Dad was in the service. My momwas given up at 2 weeks or days for adoption and the 2 best people in the world adopted her. I couldn't have had better grandparents.