I've decided to buy an electric car to do my part

[AlexanderPK]

The Saudis have ordered 150,000 electric cars for delivery in early 2026.

Of course they have. Global warming is all they think about day in and day out.

 

[AlexanderPK]

How many cows from Holland you'd need to generate the amount of methane the US blew out of the Nord Streams 1 and 2? The milk and ice cream they'd give could eliminate hunger on the planet for centuries to come.

 

[Foxfyre]

All resource extraction is damaging to the environment but some extractions are far more damaging than others and Lithium mining is far less damaging than production of oil.

Direct lithium extraction, a new method, uses almost no water. Another method employs naturally occurring underground steam instead of outside supplies of water. And as we know from other open pit mines, they can be restored.

With oil we have polutions of ground water, air pollution, spills, and of course greenhouse gas that are fueling climate change. If oil production was centralize like lithium mining we could reduce most the serious damage to the environment but it's not. The problem is global and it lies in the million of producing wells, an estimated 29 million abandoned well most of which are not properly plugged, over 2,000 operating pipelines, over a thousand refiners, 3500 oil tankers operating at sea, and millions of underground storage tanks. In a report by the EPA, it estimated that abandon wells alone in the US are leaking 281 kilotons of methane into air and 10 million barrels of oil into topsoil and ground water every year.

IF we converted every single car in the world to EV's, damage to the environment by lithium would be a small fraction of damage being done now by oil.

The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries

During the Obama-Biden administration, hydraulic fracturing was accused of causing a number of environmental problems—faucets on fire, contamination of drinking…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

 

[Flopper]

Besides, all you need to charge the battery is to plug the cable to the outlet in your car hole. It comes out of thin air, right? I mean electricity.

Generating electricity, transmitting it to the vehicles and using it to run the vehicles is far more efficient than producing gasoline and using to run vehicles.

EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to run the vehicle. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power the wheels. Most of the energy from the gasoline you burn in a your car is used to produce heat which is basically destructive to the engine so we employ a cooling system to protect the engine which requires more energy. Then we have to use more energy to remove pollutants. And still more is used to protect our ears from engine noise, and still more is used to generate electricity for the engine and pumps to circulate coolants and oil. And what little is left is used to turn the wheels.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Generating electricity, transmitting it to the vehicles and using it to run the vehicles is far more efficient than producing gasoline and using to run vehicles.

EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to run the vehicle. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power the wheels. Most of the energy from the gasoline you burn in a your car is used to produce heat which is basically destructive to the engine so we employ a cooling system to protect the engine which requires more energy. Then we have to use more energy to remove pollutants. And still more is used to protect our ears from engine noise, and still more is used to generate electricity for the engine and pumps to circulate coolants and oil. And what little is left is used to turn the wheels.
View attachment 720528

So it's not out of thin air after all. The heat by the way, which is a by-product it seems, heats the driver and those who seat by. Not all of us live in Saudi Arabia, you know. Add our little lithium problem, the price tag that's much higher than that of your average Joe automobile's, the fact that they are subjected to spontaneous combustion once in a while and your ephemeral electric gaines fade away as Greta Tumberg did of late. Doesn't your little cartoon say the same? The guy could have saved some more energy if he had upset the busket directly, leaving out the monkey. ))

 

[Flopper]

So it's not out of thin air after all. The heat by the way, which is a by-product it seems, heats the driver and those who seat by. Not all of us live in Saudi Arabia, you know. Add our little lithium problem, the price tag that's much higher than that of your average Joe automobile's, the fact that they are subjected to spontaneous combustion once in a while and your ephemeral electric gaines fade away as Greta Tumberg did of late. Doesn't your little cartoon say the same? The guy could have saved some more energy if he had upset the busket directly, leaving out the monkey. ))

Statistics compiled by AutoInsuranceEZ found that for every 100,000 EVs, there are about 25 fires each year. That compares to 1,530 car fires in the same number of gas-powered vehicles annually. According to Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, EVs are just as safe or safer than ICE vehicles and are less prone to fires and rollover crashes.

EVs are not only safer but, require less maintenance, not impacted by fuel shortages, better for the environment, and do not expel greenhouse gases. If you don't use your vehicle for towing or making long trips and have a way to charge it at your home or work, it is an ideal replacement for most gas powered vehicles.

I have driven two EV's, a Chevrolet Bolt and Tesla on a 120 mile trip. I found both to be easy to drive, very responsive, and comfortable.

Although the prices of EVs are higher than gas vehicles, the $7500 tax credit can make some vehicles very affordable. For example, the MSRP of the Nissan Leaf after the tax credit is about $21,000.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Statistics compiled by AutoInsuranceEZ found that for every 100,000 EVs, there are about 25 fires each year. That compares to 1,530 car fires in the same number of gas-powered vehicles annually. According to Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, EVs are just as safe or safer than ICE vehicles and are less prone to fires and rollover crashes.

EVs are not only safer but, require less maintenance, not impacted by fuel shortages, better for the environment, and do not expel greenhouse gases. If you don't use your vehicle for towing or making long trips and have a way to charge it at your home or work, it is an ideal replacement for most gas powered vehicles.

I have driven two EV's, a Chevrolet Bolt and Tesla on a 120 mile trip. I found both to be easy to drive, very responsive, and comfortable.

Although the prices of EVs are higher than gas vehicles, the $7500 tax credit can make some vehicles very affordable. For example, the MSRP of the Nissan Leaf after the tax credit is about $21,000.

Well, I wouldn't mind having one myself but only as a second car or a toy, sort of, for short recreational trips. It's fun to drive I bet, it's not noisy, it's dynamic and stuff but under no circumstance would my choice be determined by that green agenda bullshit.

 

[Flash]

Not really
Who wants a limited range rolling fire hazard ..I mean really

There’s nothing new here, but it acts as a good reminder of just bad lithium mining is for the environment:

Electric vehicles are promoted as the solution for combating “climate change.” Governments are currently incentivizing the production of electric vehicles, while punishing the fossil fuel industry. However, lithium mining for electric vehicles is incredibly destructive to the environment, and is about as far from “green” as one could imagine. Not to mention, most of the lithium-ion batteries produced today come from China and require water-intensive mining operations that ravage natural environments throughout Australia, Argentina and Chile. The process depletes ground water, and leaves behind toxic wastewater that contaminates fields and harms wildlife. The mining process is not carbon dioxide free, either. The mining process releases 15,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide emissions for every ton of lithium that is extracted.

LITHIUM mining for electric vehicles is incredibly destructive to the environment and about as far from "green" as you can imagine

By Paul Homewood There’s nothing new here, but it acts as a good reminder of just bad lithium mining is for the environment: Electric vehicles are promoted as the solutio…

notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com

If they weren't so expensive, such a fire hazard and if they weren't an ecological disaster they might be OK for somebody doing a short commute each day providing they had an ICE vehicle as a backup.

 

[Flopper]

Well, I wouldn't mind having one myself but only as a second car or a toy, sort of, for short recreational trips. It's fun to drive I bet, it's not noisy, it's dynamic and stuff but under no circumstance would my choice be determined by that green agenda bullshit.

Second car, yes but they are certainly not toys. If you just drive to work and short trips as most people do, they are great. If you take long vacations or tow a trailers, they are not so great. It all depends how you use the vehicle and whether you can charge the vehicle at home or work.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Second car, yes but they are certainly not toys. If you just drive to work and short trips as most people do, they are great. If you take long vacations or tow a trailers, they are not so great. It all depends how you use the vehicle and whether you can charge the vehicle at home or work.

Okay, next time I have a spare $100000 in my pocket I'll get me a Tesla. Gotta decide what bank should I rob first. ))

 

[Flopper]

If they weren't so expensive, such a fire hazard and if they weren't an ecological disaster they might be OK for somebody doing a short commute each day providing they had an ICE vehicle as a backup.

If they weren't so expensive, such a fire hazard and if they weren't an ecological disaster they might be OK for somebody doing a short commute each day providing they had an ICE vehicle as a backup.

They are not a fire hazard. This is just more bullshit from the opposition. They are safer than gas powered cars. Statistics compiled by AutoInsuranceEZ found that for every 100,000 EVs, there are about 25 fires each year. That compares to 1,530 car fires in the same number of gas-powered vehicles annually.

At one time there was a price differential of about $10,000 between electrics and similarly equipped gas cars but not any more. For cars with an MSRP less than $56,000 which is now most of the EV market, there is a $7,500 tax credit. In addition most states offer EV incentives. In my state, EVs are exempt from sales tax.

I can get a Toyota EV intermediate size similarly equipped at about same same price as gas model after rebates with a range of 250 miles. If it used gas it would be equivalent to 120mpg. I can get a smaller EV such as Nissan Leaf for about $21,000 after rebates.

 

[Flash]

They are not a fire hazard. This is just more bullshit from the opposition. They are safer than gas powered cars. Statistics compiled by AutoInsuranceEZ found that for every 100,000 EVs, there are about 25 fires each year. That compares to 1,530 car fires in the same number of gas-powered vehicles annually.

At one time there was a price differential of about $10,000 between electrics and similarly equipped gas cars but not any more. For cars with an MSRP less than $56,000 which is now most of the EV market, there is a $7,500 tax credit. In addition most states offer EV incentives. In my state, EVs are exempt from sales tax.

I can get a Toyota EV intermediate size similarly equipped at about same same price as gas model after rebates with a range of 250 miles. If it used gas it would be equivalent to 120mpg. I can get a smaller EV such as Nissan Leaf for about $21,000 after rebates.

I have a friend whose house caught on fire because of charging L-I batteries. It wasn't an EV but L-I technology never the less.

To me the fire hazard isn't enough by itself not to buy one of the stupid things but the fact it is terrible technology for vehicles. L-I is fine for powering a weed whacker or drill or something like that but sucks for vehicles.

I would have no problem with an EV if the technology was good providing we build enough fossil fuel and nuclear power stations to charge them. However, L-I is not good technology. Big, heavy, low range, expensive, high charging requirements and not long battery life.

 

[Flopper]

I have a friend whose house caught on fire because of charging L-I batteries. It wasn't an EV but L-I technology never the less.

To me the fire hazard isn't enough by itself not to buy one of the stupid things but the fact it is terrible technology for vehicles. L-I is fine for powering a weed whacker or drill or something like that but sucks for vehicles.

I would have no problem with an EV if the technology was good providing we build enough fossil fuel and nuclear power stations to charge them. However, L-I is not good technology. Big, heavy, low range, expensive, high charging requirements and not long battery life.

I think you will find that the weight of an EV battery, electric motor, and transmission are not much more than a gasoline engine with all the components it needs such a radiator, gasoline tank, transmission, differential, and various fluids.

Lithium Ion technology used in EVs today is different than small scale applications. The actually life of EV batteries is far longer than anticipated. Nissan says that over 98% of the batteries in their 2010 Leaf are still in use. Batteries going into EV's today are expected to have an average life of greater than 15 years.

 

[Flash]

I think you will find that the weight of an EV battery, electric motor, and transmission are not much more than a gasoline engine with all the components it needs such a radiator, gasoline tank, transmission, differential, and various fluids.

Lithium Ion technology used in EVs today is different than small scale applications. The actually life of EV batteries is far longer than anticipated. Nissan says that over 98% of the batteries in their 2010 Leaf are still in use. Batteries going into EV's today are expected to have an average life of greater than 15 years.

Nissen has terrible ranges on their EVs batteries. Like about about 2/3rds to half of what is advertised. Deterioration over time is a problem across the board. It has a lot to do with how they are charged.

The higher end Tesla batteries are better but then you pay an arm and a leg for them. One of the reason they cost $60K or more.

One of my buddies has a Ford hybrid with a L-I battery pack. I don't remember the exact year but it is like four years old or so. Already there has been significant deterioration in the battery. That is in addition to significant electronic problem. A couple of times it just went dead on him in the middle of traffic. Or wouldn't start.

L-I is just not good technology. We will have to do better than that if we are going to have EVs.

Kinda of like the first steam engine cars. Yea they worked but they were shitty technology.

 

[Woodznutz]

I do my part, instead of manufacturing a new car for me, of any type. I buy used cars.

Used cars are renewable, and greener than any EV.

True.

"Use it up,
Wear it out,
Make it do."

WW2 Credo for the home front to support the war effort.

Just bought another used car for $7000. I will spend another $7000 in repairs over the life of the car, then I will junk it.

 

[Woodznutz]

I think you will find that the weight of an EV battery, electric motor, and transmission are not much more than a gasoline engine with all the components it needs such a radiator, gasoline tank, transmission, differential, and various fluids.

Lithium Ion technology used in EVs today is different than small scale applications. The actually life of EV batteries is far longer than anticipated. Nissan says that over 98% of the batteries in their 2010 Leaf are still in use. Batteries going into EV's today are expected to have an average life of greater than 15 years.

Is the Leaf still in production?

 

[Flopper]

Nissen has terrible ranges on their EVs batteries. Like about about 2/3rds to half of what is advertised. Deterioration over time is a problem across the board. It has a lot to do with how they are charged.

The higher end Tesla batteries are better but then you pay an arm and a leg for them. One of the reason they cost $60K or more.

One of my buddies has a Ford hybrid with a L-I battery pack. I don't remember the exact year but it is like four years old or so. Already there has been significant deterioration in the battery. That is in addition to significant electronic problem. A couple of times it just went dead on him in the middle of traffic. Or wouldn't start.

L-I is just not good technology. We will have to do better than that if we are going to have EVs.

Kinda of like the first steam engine cars. Yea they worked but they were shitty technology.

Unlike EVs, the batteries in hybrids provide only about 30% to 40% of the energy to run the car and are not subject to high amperage charges full discharges because they are being constantly charged as you drive them. As a result, they last much longer than batteries in EVs because they are not stressed. I had a Ford Fusion for 6 years drove it across the country a number of times and I put over a hundred thousands miles on it and never had a problem. I now have Hyundai Sonata Hybrid with 85,000 miles and no problems so far.

In my opinion Hybrids are the perfect car for most people who want to reduce greenhouse gases but still have the range and a fuel source wherever they go. Someday we will have charging available everywhere. Till that day, I will stick with hybrids.

 

[Flopper]

I have a friend whose house caught on fire because of charging L-I batteries. It wasn't an EV but L-I technology never the less.

To me the fire hazard isn't enough by itself not to buy one of the stupid things but the fact it is terrible technology for vehicles. L-I is fine for powering a weed whacker or drill or something like that but sucks for vehicles.

I would have no problem with an EV if the technology was good providing we build enough fossil fuel and nuclear power stations to charge them. However, L-I is not good technology. Big, heavy, low range, expensive, high charging requirements and not long battery life.

One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine, so long as the demand is properly management. The biggest mistake the social media keyboard warriors make is the very strange assumption that all cars could be charging at once. The math is in link below.

Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily â They Just Need Proper Management

One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

 

[elektra]

One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine, so long as the demand is properly management. The biggest mistake the social media keyboard warriors make is the very strange assumption that all cars could be charging at once. The math is in link below.

Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily â They Just Need Proper Management

One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

Renewables do not work at night, wind dies down to almost nothing, most nights. Electric cars are inefficient. They are charged with anything but renewable "electricity".

Further, being much heavier, they require heavier, stronger tires, which use more oil. Further the tires get replaced more often, again requiring more fossil fuels.

The batteries are a fire hazard, as the recent deaths in New York city demonstrate.

Get rid of the battery, and I will love electric cars, give them an electric rail. Get rid of the battery, problem solved.

But the idea that you are saving the planet, the climate, saving energy, using less fossil fuels is nothing more than a big fat lie.

 

[Flopper]

Is the Leaf still in production?

There's a 2022 and 2023 model. Consumer Reports Recommends it and 78% of buyers said they would but it again. I looked at the 2022 model and it looked pretty good. With an MSRP of $28,500 and the $7500 tax credit brings it down $21,000 and some states exempt EVs from sales tax which make it a very competitively priced compact hatchback. The high demand and limited supply is a problem with many EVs. Although some dealers may have a few Leafs in stock, ordering one can take months for a delivery.