I've been telling people for a long time

[dfens]

that healthcare is a complete mess. But nobody listened.

Why? Because America! that's why! Every single one you who is getting screwed by obamacare, you can't complain, because there are people on the other end (insurance companies, etc.) and their executives making away with millions of dollars, and you all want to be them.

So suck it up, serfs. Those jets and mansions and hunting trips don't pay for themselves.

 

[PurpleOwl]

single payer healthcare for all!

 

[Boss]

So your premise seems to be that the "complete mess" of health care is somehow related to how much money certain people make in their chosen careers? And that "insurance companies, etc." are somehow running a scam, raking in millions of dollars so they can buy mansions and go on hunting trips? ...And this is why you believe healthcare is a "complete mess"?

If this explains the mentality of most average Americans, it's no wonder we find ourselves in such a mess as a country. Where do I begin?

First of all, health care is a "complete mess" but it's for a VARIETY of reasons... none of which are people who earn top marginal incomes. We need to go way back to pinpoint when the government started meddling in the free market capitalist affairs of health care... it was well before your time. We have nearly a century of government interjecting itself in what the medical industry can and can't do, who they can and can't charge, what standards they must provide and what regulations must be complied with. During this same time, we also have courts ruling what they can be held liable for, how much they can be sued for if found "negligent" and ultimately, their obligations to the general public.

All of this comes in layers of federal, state and sometimes local government. Coupled with the very real fact of life, that medical professionals have spent a lot on being educated as such and demand a high rate of pay for what they do, and the fact they are in high demand... and we have the makings of the "complete mess" ....Oh, but what we REALLY needed to add was the so-called "Affordable Care Act" to complete the mess.

So the "mess" is actually MORE related to the tentacles of government interfering in what should be a free market capitalist enterprise. That's who you should be angry at, not the people who buy mansions and go on hunting trips. They are simply enjoying the benefits of having good-paying jobs in lucrative careers.

 

[320 Years of History]

that healthcare is a complete mess. But nobody listened.

Why? Because America! that's why! Every single one you who is getting screwed by obamacare, you can't complain, because there are people on the other end (insurance companies, etc.) and their executives making away with millions of dollars, and you all want to be them.

So suck it up, serfs. Those jets and mansions and hunting trips don't pay for themselves.

Red:
....And the situation of "those people on the other end (insurance companies, etc.) and their executives" differs how post-Obamacare from what it was pre-Obamacare?

Blue:

• To whom exactly that mattered in the design and implementation of O-care did you complain only to have them not listen?
• Did you actually say something having more substance than "O-care is a complete mess?"
• Did you offer detailed, actionable and well founded solution alternatives?
• If so, would you share them with us so we can see just what it is you proposed and that those people who mattered ignored?

I just want to understand why anyone who mattered in the implementation O-care should have listened to whatever you said.

 

[Onyx]

The PPACA was a huge scheme to take out rival insurance companies and drive more business to the insurance companies that participated in lobbying it.

It produced net growth for the insurance companies, at the expense of working class wallets.

 

[Boss]

The PPACA was a huge scheme to take out rival insurance companies and drive more business to the insurance companies that participated in lobbying it.

It produced net growth for the insurance companies, at the expense of working class wallets.

The whole intent and purpose of Obamacare was to push us to single payer nationalized health care and you are doing your "useful idiot" job in helping promote the class warfare rhetoric to make that happen. What you are eventually going to do is replace the "evil rich" insurance company execs with corrupted political cronies who will simply rob you through your paycheck in taxes. Meanwhile, whenever you reach old age and your government-paid doc tells you that your life isn't worth the effort to save and sends you home to die... remember the guy on the internet who told you what a fool you were, way back when.

 

[Onyx]

The whole intent and purpose of Obamacare was to push us to single payer nationalized health care and you are doing your "useful idiot" job in helping promote the class warfare rhetoric to make that happen

Spare me. I am sorry if the truth serves "evil" agendas. Recognizing reality is a necessity if you want to find solutions.

Also, you are wrong. The purpose of Obamacare was as I laid out. To serve the lobbying insurance companies by knocking out competition and driving in new clients. The insurance companies, being the powerful force that they are, would never allow single payer healthcare.

What you are eventually going to do is replace the "evil rich" insurance company execs with corrupted political cronies who will simply rob you through your paycheck in taxes.

That's not what I support, but that is not my problem either way. If truthful rhetoric is perverted for dishonest means, I would shift no fault on the truth teller.

Meanwhile, whenever you reach old age and your government-paid doc tells you that your life isn't worth the effort to save and sends you home to die... remember the guy on the internet who told you what a fool you were, way back when.

Why? Criticizing he status quo makes me a fool? I never advocated for single payer healthcare, which is something I am dead set against by the way.

What's the deal here? People should shut their mouths, about what is going on, because some of the viable alternatives scare you?

 

[Iceweasel]

that healthcare is a complete mess. But nobody listened.

Why? Because America! that's why! Every single one you who is getting screwed by obamacare, you can't complain, because there are people on the other end (insurance companies, etc.) and their executives making away with millions of dollars, and you all want to be them.

So suck it up, serfs. Those jets and mansions and hunting trips don't pay for themselves.

Dumb thread. Nobody listened to you because you are a fart in a thunderstorm. Health insurance has been a problem for a long time and has been discussed since I can remember, which goes back a ways.

The problem is that government got more and more involved and prices went up and up. And litigation has gone through the roof, many doctors could barely afford their own liability insurance. We were not able to shop across state lines and fewer and fewer companies were willing to cover increasing amounts of coverage.

My rates went up when the state mandated drug and alcohol treatments, psychiatric care and more. I didn't want to pay for that kind of insurance but the government left us with no choice.

The liberals solution was even more government, as usual. Now they want even more. Liberalism is based on ideology, not results. The piss poor results only mean we need to double down and do more of the same.

 

[Iceweasel]

Also, you are wrong. The purpose of Obamacare was as I laid out. To serve the lobbying insurance companies by knocking out competition and driving in new clients. The insurance companies, being the powerful force that they are, would never allow single payer healthcare.

Who do you think wrote the law?

 

[Onyx]

Dumb thread. Nobody listened to you because you are a fart in a thunderstorm. Health insurance has been a problem for a long time and has been discussed since I can remember, which goes back a ways.

So you are attacking him for agreeing with you?

My guess is that his left-wing rhetoric is confusing you, because you never met a libertarian socialist.

The liberals solution was even more government, as usual. Now they want even more. Liberalism is based on ideology, not results. The piss poor results only mean we need to double down and do more of the same.

 

[Onyx]

Who do you think wrote the law?

The president and members of congress in conjunction with a conglomerate of insurance companies.

 

[gipper]

that healthcare is a complete mess. But nobody listened.

Why? Because America! that's why! Every single one you who is getting screwed by obamacare, you can't complain, because there are people on the other end (insurance companies, etc.) and their executives making away with millions of dollars, and you all want to be them.

So suck it up, serfs. Those jets and mansions and hunting trips don't pay for themselves.

Dumb thread. Nobody listened to you because you are a fart in a thunderstorm. Health insurance has been a problem for a long time and has been discussed since I can remember, which goes back a ways.

The problem is that government got more and more involved and prices went up and up. And litigation has gone through the roof, many doctors could barely afford their own liability insurance. We were not able to shop across state lines and fewer and fewer companies were willing to cover increasing amounts of coverage.

My rates went up when the state mandated drug and alcohol treatments, psychiatric care and more. I didn't want to pay for that kind of insurance but the government left us with no choice.

The liberals solution was even more government, as usual. Now they want even more. Liberalism is based on ideology, not results. The piss poor results only mean we need to double down and do more of the same.

Yes...the Left's solution for everything is MORE government, even though government has proven itself ineffective, corrupt, and extremely expensive. Are they stupid or what?

As some predicted when Obamacare was enacted, it was an effort designed to destroy the healthcare system so that government could nationalize HC...every elitist leftist's wet dream. If Cankle's wins, expect it to happen and watch as HC in America descends into the shitter.

 

[Iceweasel]

Who do you think wrote the law?

The president and members of congress in conjunction with a conglomerate of insurance companies.

obie didn't write anything but it was mostly insurance companies and economists. Many in congress didn't read it. Or would understand it if they did.

Key architect of Obamacare admitted that it was passed by exploiting political ignorance
At an October 2013 panel, MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, a key architect of the Affordable Care Act, admitted that it was passed by exploiting political ignorance. If voters had known that the law would work by forcing young and healthy people to provide massive new subsidies for the old and sick, he doubts that it could have gotten through Congress:

 

[Onyx]

obie didn't write anything but it was mostly insurance companies and economists. Many in congress didn't read it. Or would understand it if they did.

I heard Obama wrote the vast majority of the PPACA, but it really does not matter. I oppose it nonetheless.

 

[Iceweasel]

I heard Obama wrote the vast majority of the PPACA,

Nearly 11,000 pages, I don't think so.

 

[Boss]

The whole intent and purpose of Obamacare was to push us to single payer nationalized health care and you are doing your "useful idiot" job in helping promote the class warfare rhetoric to make that happen

Spare me. I am sorry if the truth serves "evil" agendas. Recognizing reality is a necessity if you want to find solutions.

Also, you are wrong. The purpose of Obamacare was as I laid out. To serve the lobbying insurance companies by knocking out competition and driving in new clients. The insurance companies, being the powerful force that they are, would never allow single payer healthcare.

What you are eventually going to do is replace the "evil rich" insurance company execs with corrupted political cronies who will simply rob you through your paycheck in taxes.

That's not what I support, but that is not my problem either way. If truthful rhetoric is perverted for dishonest means, I would shift no fault on the truth teller.

Meanwhile, whenever you reach old age and your government-paid doc tells you that your life isn't worth the effort to save and sends you home to die... remember the guy on the internet who told you what a fool you were, way back when.

Why? Criticizing he status quo makes me a fool? I never advocated for single payer healthcare, which is something I am dead set against by the way.

What's the deal here? People should shut their mouths, about what is going on, because some of the viable alternatives scare you?

You can wrap yourself in self-righteousness and act incredulous all day long, it doesn't salvage your argument. The progressives have been pushing for nationalized health care for more than 60 years... it's Saul Alinsky's #1 Rule for Radicals... Control the healthcare and you control the people.

Does the ACA benefit the insurance lobby? Fuck yes... they wrote the damn thing! But that was never the intent and purpose of the legislation.... it is a segue to full government-run health care. Incrementalism.... that's how the progressives approach EVERY agenda item.

They count on little quislings such as yourself, running around promoting class warfare... bitching about the evil rich insurance execs who are making millions at our expense. This has proven successful in getting really stupid morons to support MORE "government solutions" to heap on top of the very mess government solutions have created.

Here is the only alternative that has ever worked to mitigate unreasonable prices.... Free Market Capitalism!

 

[Rambunctious]

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I can't disagree with the OP...although it is oversimplified.