it's very simple

[Working Man]

Forget about the global economy, there really is only one. That is China's.

Ours is full of hopes and dreams, but that is about it.

Look at the countries that have taken the bread and butter jobs from us. Shoes, clothes, forged products,etc... Are they not the ones harboring terrorists, or other anti US types??? I still say that China is helping North Korea. So in effect, we are helping the bad guys.

You want to smother terrorism??? Cut off the funding. There is no reason we can't produce $39 cotton shirts here. No reason we can't make $80 shoes here. No reason we can't make $25 hydraulic jacks,,,, well wait on this one.. The F'n lawyers and their product liability crap... But, you get the drift..

 

[nosarcasm]

lawsuits are not a major cost factor in the manufacturing
industry.

Your answer to isolationism and tariffs would not work
well for the large US based companies that operate
world wide.

 

[Hobbit]

The primary answer is the tax code. If income and stealth taxes didn't cripple U.S. owned and operated businesses, jobs would flood to America faster than our seive-like southern fence could fill them.

 

[Mariner]

U.S. tax code is a mess. We could save a lot of money by simplifying it. But do you honestly think that with lower taxes, we'd suddenly have tons of jobs?

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Take a look at states within the U.S. that have aimed for a low tax "business-friendly" environment, such as Alabama. You can move your business to Alabama and pay a lot less in taxes than in Massachusetts. So how come Massachusetts is bursting with jobs, profits, and wealth? Because we have a more educated workforce, due in part to strong public education, good job training, and a decent safety net that picks people up when they fall down. Taxes can pay for things, in other words, that improve business for all. If India built better roads, for example, all its businesses would become more profitable immediately.

China and other 3rd world countries outcompete us because they have minimal environmental and occupational safety rules, a very low standard of living, and a huge excess of workers who are therefore willing to accept lower wages. In America, people are expensive and things are cheap. In China and India, it's the other way around--you can pay someone to wash your floors every day for less than you'd pay for a vacuum cleaner.

Over time, the 3rd world countries will develop 1st world tastes and demand 1st world safety and environmental controls. Then things will even out--but America may no longer be in the lead. We're simply unable to fill our science and technology slots with our home-grown talent. When the foreign pool dries up, we're history.

Another way China is beating us now is thanks to this current Republican willingness to borrow and spend. China holds $250 billion of our foreign debt, almost all of it amassed during GW Bush. They cash in half of that tomorrow and our economy tanks. Hence, we can't take them to task about human rights abuses in Tibet, censorship, or other issues. I blame Bush and the Republican Party for being willing to sell out our independence that way. In ten years of controlling the budget process in Congress, the budget has risen from 1.5 to 2.5 trillion dollars. A billion dollars A DAY in interest payments. Living in fear of taxes, and on the international credit card, George Bush style.

Mariner.

 

[Avatar4321]

The primary answer is the tax code. If income and stealth taxes didn't cripple U.S. owned and operated businesses, jobs would flood to America faster than our seive-like southern fence could fill them.

I agree to a point. The Tax code is overly burdensome. But I think we also cant underestimate the extremely powerful unions who can also cripple companies and ironically destroy their own jobs. I have never understhood why a union will choose to refuse to endure cut backs rather than have everyone loose their jobs because the company goes bankrupt. Or why they will encourage employees to strike costing the business tons of money because they dont want to pay 2% of their medical insurance. Its absurd.

On top of that we need to educate people on what raising the minimum wage does to the economy.

 

[Mariner]

Yes, unions over-reach sometimes. But historically unions were key to balancing the power of large corporations who treated their workers badly. 12-hour workdays were the norm in factories a century ago. Unionization created a big chunk of the middle class in this country, when it raised workers' salaries enough that a single worker could be breadwinner for the family (this lasted until tariffs against foreign goods, such as Japanese cars, were lifted). Certain industries and areas seem ripe for unionization now, from medicine to Walmart employees. The "physician's organization" I belong to, a sort of union, has successfully raised our salaries here much closer to the national norm. Previously, Harvard could trade on its prestige and pay physicians 1/2 or 1/3 what they could make elsewhere.

Mariner.

 

[Hobbit]

U.S. tax code is a mess. We could save a lot of money by simplifying it. But do you honestly think that with lower taxes, we'd suddenly have tons of jobs?

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Take a look at states within the U.S. that have aimed for a low tax "business-friendly" environment, such as Alabama. You can move your business to Alabama and pay a lot less in taxes than in Massachusetts. So how come Massachusetts is bursting with jobs, profits, and wealth? Because we have a more educated workforce, due in part to strong public education, good job training, and a decent safety net that picks people up when they fall down. Taxes can pay for things, in other words, that improve business for all. If India built better roads, for example, all its businesses would become more profitable immediately.

China and other 3rd world countries outcompete us because they have minimal environmental and occupational safety rules, a very low standard of living, and a huge excess of workers who are therefore willing to accept lower wages. In America, people are expensive and things are cheap. In China and India, it's the other way around--you can pay someone to wash your floors every day for less than you'd pay for a vacuum cleaner.

Over time, the 3rd world countries will develop 1st world tastes and demand 1st world safety and environmental controls. Then things will even out--but America may no longer be in the lead. We're simply unable to fill our science and technology slots with our home-grown talent. When the foreign pool dries up, we're history.

Another way China is beating us now is thanks to this current Republican willingness to borrow and spend. China holds $250 billion of our foreign debt, almost all of it amassed during GW Bush. They cash in half of that tomorrow and our economy tanks. Hence, we can't take them to task about human rights abuses in Tibet, censorship, or other issues. I blame Bush and the Republican Party for being willing to sell out our independence that way. In ten years of controlling the budget process in Congress, the budget has risen from 1.5 to 2.5 trillion dollars. A billion dollars A DAY in interest payments. Living in fear of taxes, and on the international credit card, George Bush style.

Mariner.

Actually, one of the best state economies is Delaware, the most business friendly state in the union. Look how many companies are incorporated there. Massachussetts also has a booming economy not because of better public education. It's because Massachussetts has an infastructure that both supports and demands high jobs. It was one of the first places settled in this country, meaning it's grown into an urban powerhouse. That means that a lot of people live there and don't really want to move, not to mention the businesses and schools that have popped up over the years and really can't move. Areas that have been urban for a while always have a good economy, regardless of the tax code.

However, the reason American companies move overseas is that if they're headquartered here, they must pay U.S. income taxes on everything they buy and must also pay accountants to make sure they pay their taxes correctly. If they headquarter overseas, they only pay U.S. income tax on what is sold here, and only pay taxes to the foreign country on what's sold there (for example, Germany has a value added tax that is refunded for any product sold overseas).

 

[Gunny]

U.S. tax code is a mess. We could save a lot of money by simplifying it. But do you honestly think that with lower taxes, we'd suddenly have tons of jobs?

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Take a look at states within the U.S. that have aimed for a low tax "business-friendly" environment, such as Alabama. You can move your business to Alabama and pay a lot less in taxes than in Massachusetts. So how come Massachusetts is bursting with jobs, profits, and wealth? Because we have a more educated workforce, due in part to strong public education, good job training, and a decent safety net that picks people up when they fall down. Taxes can pay for things, in other words, that improve business for all. If India built better roads, for example, all its businesses would become more profitable immediately.

China and other 3rd world countries outcompete us because they have minimal environmental and occupational safety rules, a very low standard of living, and a huge excess of workers who are therefore willing to accept lower wages. In America, people are expensive and things are cheap. In China and India, it's the other way around--you can pay someone to wash your floors every day for less than you'd pay for a vacuum cleaner.

Over time, the 3rd world countries will develop 1st world tastes and demand 1st world safety and environmental controls. Then things will even out--but America may no longer be in the lead. We're simply unable to fill our science and technology slots with our home-grown talent. When the foreign pool dries up, we're history.

Another way China is beating us now is thanks to this current Republican willingness to borrow and spend. China holds $250 billion of our foreign debt, almost all of it amassed during GW Bush. They cash in half of that tomorrow and our economy tanks. Hence, we can't take them to task about human rights abuses in Tibet, censorship, or other issues. I blame Bush and the Republican Party for being willing to sell out our independence that way. In ten years of controlling the budget process in Congress, the budget has risen from 1.5 to 2.5 trillion dollars. A billion dollars A DAY in interest payments. Living in fear of taxes, and on the international credit card, George Bush style.

Mariner.

"Almost" a good post. But you just couldn't help posting that last paragraph taking a shot a Bush.

 

[Working Man]

"Almost" a good post. But you just couldn't help posting that last paragraph taking a shot a Bush.

GW gets a shot because he deserves one. That boy had better start paying attention to where he is sailing this ship cause the rocks are ripping the hull out and water is pouring in!

GW is giving our country away,, or is he just selling shares of our heritage and our future to the likes of China??? In this light he and Bill Clinton must be in competition to see who could whore the US out.

GW, the whole house, the whole senate and the dopes that voted for liberals are the reasons why we are screwed. I don't see an appreciable number of politicians, nor the public clammering to make things better for the workforce, hence the economy.


Discovery Channel is showing a program on Extreme Machines at this momment. The very iron mines we used to billed this country up in WW1 and WWII are being sold off to China. THis depletes our resources, fources OUR last manufacturing plants to compete unfairly, and makes us look like the third world country we USED to take advantage of... No, I am not bragging that we did, but now we are at a point where the shoe is on the other foot.. I don't like what I am seeing, and don't believe that we in the US are going to be "free" like we used to know it.

For companies like Catapiller I send this thought,, SCREW YOU BASTARDS!!! You helped screw yourselves, and this country. Now you are going to be eaten up by the same monster you woke up from a dormant snooze.. Your company can't compete to buy the Iron ore pellets that your company needs to build equipment..You are going down...Up your tail pipes with your cheap Chink clothes too...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

U.S. tax code is a mess. We could save a lot of money by simplifying it. But do you honestly think that with lower taxes, we'd suddenly have tons of jobs?

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Take a look at states within the U.S. that have aimed for a low tax "business-friendly" environment, such as Alabama. You can move your business to Alabama and pay a lot less in taxes than in Massachusetts. So how come Massachusetts is bursting with jobs, profits, and wealth? Because we have a more educated workforce, due in part to strong public education, good job training, and a decent safety net that picks people up when they fall down. Taxes can pay for things, in other words, that improve business for all. If India built better roads, for example, all its businesses would become more profitable immediately.

China and other 3rd world countries outcompete us because they have minimal environmental and occupational safety rules, a very low standard of living, and a huge excess of workers who are therefore willing to accept lower wages. In America, people are expensive and things are cheap. In China and India, it's the other way around--you can pay someone to wash your floors every day for less than you'd pay for a vacuum cleaner.

Over time, the 3rd world countries will develop 1st world tastes and demand 1st world safety and environmental controls. Then things will even out--but America may no longer be in the lead. We're simply unable to fill our science and technology slots with our home-grown talent. When the foreign pool dries up, we're history.

Another way China is beating us now is thanks to this current Republican willingness to borrow and spend. China holds $250 billion of our foreign debt, almost all of it amassed during GW Bush. They cash in half of that tomorrow and our economy tanks. Hence, we can't take them to task about human rights abuses in Tibet, censorship, or other issues. I blame Bush and the Republican Party for being willing to sell out our independence that way. In ten years of controlling the budget process in Congress, the budget has risen from 1.5 to 2.5 trillion dollars. A billion dollars A DAY in interest payments. Living in fear of taxes, and on the international credit card, George Bush style.

Mariner.

China is not going to "cash in" or else it will suffer economically as well.

Free trade worldwide is our future. There can be no other way, otherwise we will artificially restrict ourselves into a corner. So what if old style manufacturing is taken over by third world countries? The American entrepreneur is our future - which is something liberals have a very hard time conceptualizing. In case you haven't noticed, America is now in the "information age" - a whole new paradigm. Let's not fear the changes that the future will bring, let's embrace them.

 

[Adam's Apple]

I agree with Screaming Eagle. Globalization and outsourcing are here to stay and will only increase as the years go by. Americans had better get used to the idea and prepare themselves to the extent possible by educating themselves about the far-reaching effects of globalization and outsourcing.

If you want to read a really good book on the topic, pick up a copy of The World Is Flat by Tom Friedman. It's one of the best written and most interesting books I've ever read. Most of us think of manufacturing and textiles when we think of outsourcing, but the scope is much, much larger than that. Even McDonald's in some parts of the country is using a call service to handle their drive-through orders.

 

[Adam's Apple]

I particularly liked a comment Friedman made in his book. He said our parents would tell us to eat our dinner because there were starving children in China and India. Now we tell our kids to do their homework because there are starving children in China and India who are preparing to take their jobs. That point should be driven home in every American family.

Our kids have got to start taking education seriously, especially science, math, and engineering. That's where the high-paying jobs are going to be in the technological world looming in the future. And if places like Intel and Microsoft can't find quality American workers to do their jobs, they will move their businesses to where they can find such quality workers.

 

[Working Man]

I particularly liked a comment Friedman made in his book. He said our parents would tell us to eat our dinner because there were starving children in China and India. Now we tell our kids to do their homework because there are starving children in China and India who are preparing to take their jobs. That point should be driven home in every American family.

Our kids have got to start taking education seriously, especially science, math, and engineering. That's where the high-paying jobs are going to be in the technological world looming in the future. And if places like Intel and Microsoft can't find quality American workers to do their jobs, they will move their businesses to where they can find such quality workers.

yep, you're right. And the Indians, Pakistanis etc, are coming over in droves to take the jobs away from American youth who are too busy with their Ipods, videogames, loud mufflers, yo yo yo homie music etc.....

China is producing 6:1 engineering grads vs the US.. I am sure other countries are getting the jump on the American kids too.. GEEE,, what a shock this is...

What nationality is your doctor???? Where did he, or she go to Med school??? The imported doctors attend our schools many times, while US born students go to Grenada, etc for their med certificates.. Not sure who I want to probe my caverns looking for problems...

 

[Annie]

yep, you're right. And the Indians, Pakistanis etc, are coming over in droves to take the jobs away from American youth who are too busy with their Ipods, videogames, loud mufflers, yo yo yo homie music etc.....

China is producing 6:1 engineering grads vs the US.. I am sure other countries are getting the jump on the American kids too.. GEEE,, what a shock this is...

What nationality is your doctor???? Where did he, or she go to Med school??? The imported doctors attend our schools many times, while US born students go to Grenada, etc for their med certificates.. Not sure who I want to probe my caverns looking for problems...

Wow, that deserves rep! The ability to see the forces at work on one end of the spectrum. On the other end, our 'lowest educated' want to be paid maximum $$$ based on 'manual labor'. Not much can be done about some jobs, we can't outsource garbage collections, but answering phones? Data entry? If you owned a business, what would your choice be?

Truth to tell, Americans have always wanted more per hour than others and usually can make it. Creativity combined with productivity gets one there. It's why we have a history of coming up with the new sources of economic endeavors and should always encourage that. Right about now, new thinking on energy and military issues seem on the table and related.

We need to make education more rigorous, yet the overwhelming emphasis on 'math and science' may be misguided in intensity. Civics, with added values related education can lead children to want to be better disciplined, responsible, and willing to work hard. Instead we have well meaning, but poorly executed 'character classes.' The Great Books can help provide students, again especially when used towards the young, with both role models and inspiration for wanting to be great. Combine the readiness of their minds with good teachers of math, science and the rest, sit back and watch.

 

[Adam's Apple]

Combine the readiness of their minds with good teachers of math, science and the rest, sit back and watch.

The "readiness of their minds" seems to be the problem that needs attention for America to continue its lead in the globalized world of tomorrow. I'm not a teacher, so I have no first-hand knowledge of the kinds of kids coming through the pipe today. But I don't believe they're getting the kind of basic education that will enable them to excel in math, science, engineering, languages, etc. that will be needed to maintain America's lead in the globalized world.

 

[Annie]

The "readiness of their minds" seems to be the problem that needs attention for America to continue its lead in the globalized world of tomorrow. I'm not a teacher, so I have no first-hand knowledge of the kinds of kids coming through the pipe today. But I don't believe they're getting the kind of basic education that will enable them to excel in math, science, engineering, languages, etc. that will be needed to maintain America's lead in the globalized world.

That's what I was trying to address. In most schools, the subjects that lead to 'readiness in thinking', ie the humanities, are dreadfully undertaught and mistaught. Kids are not learning the nuances in thinking, instead spending their days producing 'products' to demonstrate their understanding of whatever 'process' the teacher is trying to have the students integrate into their banks of knowledge. The problem, as I see it, too often they are teaching a specific piece of information, failing to help the students see how whatever 'it' is, is just a slice of something much larger. For example: studying a particular state, failing to make the connection of 'region' or 'country as regions.'

From what I can tell, this goes a long way towards explaining our failure at geography. Same thing is happening across the curriculum.

 

[Gunny]

GW gets a shot because he deserves one. That boy had better start paying attention to where he is sailing this ship cause the rocks are ripping the hull out and water is pouring in!

GW is giving our country away,, or is he just selling shares of our heritage and our future to the likes of China??? In this light he and Bill Clinton must be in competition to see who could whore the US out.

GW, the whole house, the whole senate and the dopes that voted for liberals are the reasons why we are screwed. I don't see an appreciable number of politicians, nor the public clammering to make things better for the workforce, hence the economy.


Discovery Channel is showing a program on Extreme Machines at this momment. The very iron mines we used to billed this country up in WW1 and WWII are being sold off to China. THis depletes our resources, fources OUR last manufacturing plants to compete unfairly, and makes us look like the third world country we USED to take advantage of... No, I am not bragging that we did, but now we are at a point where the shoe is on the other foot.. I don't like what I am seeing, and don't believe that we in the US are going to be "free" like we used to know it.

For companies like Catapiller I send this thought,, SCREW YOU BASTARDS!!! You helped screw yourselves, and this country. Now you are going to be eaten up by the same monster you woke up from a dormant snooze.. Your company can't compete to buy the Iron ore pellets that your company needs to build equipment..You are going down...Up your tail pipes with your cheap Chink clothes too...

I do not disagree with much of your sentiment, but placing the blame on Bush as if he could do anything about it is just wrong. I just find it rather odd that one minute he's an idiot who needs a nanny to dress him; yet, the next he can cause hurricanes to strike NO and single-handedly destroy our domestic economy.

This "whoring out" of our Nation began long ago, when we decided it was up to us to support other Nations' economies, and when trade unions priced themselves out of business.

I am by no means advocating what amounts to the globalization of our economy, I'm just trying to figure out how it is all the fault of one man.

Do you honestly think Bush could get laws through Congress jacking up import tariff's and penalizing the Hell out of companies whose plants are outside or borders? Or a law that allows US businesses to be owned by only US citizens?

Reagan jacking the import tariff on two-door SUVs really worked.