Its time to legalize secession.

[para bellum]

I think there are two reasons that secession language was left out of the Constitution. One is that it would have only made it more difficult to get States to ratify, and it was difficult enough as it was. The Framers did not consider the Constitution was perfect; they expected changes and included the mechanism for modification in Article V.

Second is that the Constitution is a Compact between the States to create a Federal Government. The document that came out of Philadelphia in 1789 had no teeth until it was ratified by the States. If they had included a provision that said ratification can never be undone, how many States would have ratified?

At it's core, the Constitution is not a coercive document. It may have been the general understanding that since a State can join by a vote of the Legislature, one can also leave by the same process?

 

[bendog]

I think there are two reasons that secession language was left out of the Constitution. One is that it would have only made it more difficult to get States to ratify, and it was difficult enough as it was. The Framers did not consider the Constitution was perfect; they expected changes and included the mechanism for modification in Article V.

Second is that the Constitution is a Compact between the States to create a Federal Government. The document that came out of Philadelphia in 1789 had no teeth until it was ratified by the States. If they had included a provision that said ratification can never be undone, how many States would have ratified?

At it's core, the Constitution is not a coercive document. It may have been the general understanding that since a State can join by a vote of the Legislature, one can also leave by the same process?

That was one view, but the SC gutted it in White v. Texas.

The other view is that to get the states' buy in, the nascent nation created the BoR, which orginally only proscribed power exercised by the federal govt. The federalists acquiesced to the anti-federalists, maininly in southern states. It was a bargain that the secessionists were stuck with.

 

[Zincwarrior]

It is worth noting that Jefferson Davis was never prosecuted after the Civil War for treason or insurrection. That's pretty conspicuous, isn't it?

The reason was that the Attorney General was afraid that if he were convicted and appealed the case to the Supreme Court, the Court might just say that the South had the right to secede, which would make a lot of people look silly. And a lot of dead people pissed off.

IIRC but Davis was pardoned.
SCOTUS ruled that secessionism not a Constitutional right. Texas v. White.

 

[WorldWatcher]

IIRC but Davis was pardoned.
SCOTUS ruled that secessionism not a Constitutional right. Texas v. White.

Correct, he was pardoned by President Johnson in 1868. However he remained ineligible to run for or hold office because a Presidential pardon did not restore his eligibility under A14S3.

IIRC, the Amnesty Act of 1872 didn't restore that ability either as he and certain other high ranking Confederates were excluded from the restoration of ability to hold office.

WW

 

[there4eyeM]

Perpetual Union.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

No secession.

If a part of the country secedes then that means they gave up on the country. America as a whole and America needs to be fixed and not divided up.

Dicing it up into parts will just further destroy the country beyond what it already is.

The US government is not a fixer upper. It's time to demolish it and perhaps build several new countries in its stead.

 

[Richard-H]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

I've argued for this before. I think it's a great idea.

But before any state can secede it must be by popular referendum in several elections in a row. Like 4 election each 4 years apart or something like that.

One maverick legislature or popular vote shouldn't trigger this.

 

[Leviticus]

I've argued for this before. I think it's a great idea.

But before any state can secede it must be by popular referendum in several elections in a row. Like 4 election each 4 years apart or something like that.

One maverick legislature or popular vote shouldn't trigger this.

I personally don't think it should be allowed unless at leave fifty percent of the people of the state vote for it. It shouldn't be up to the legislature of the state.Or it's representatives. It should only be allowed by a direct vote by the people.

 

[Invisibleflash]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

There Should be a constitutional amendment allowing for negotiations between a state and the federal government over possible secession.

Such amendment should include five requirements that are mandatory and not negotiable. Meaning that these things must happen in order for a state to secede.

1; All residents of a former state that claim citizenship in that state as a sovereign nation Shall be construed as to have renounced US citizenship. This means they lose all rights as US citizens and will be considered foreigners. If they wish to reclaim US citizenship later they will have to go through The naturalization process like any other foreigner.

2; The united states shall not give Military or economic aid to any former state that has seceded for a period of no less than ten years. Nor shall there be any trade Deal made between the united states and a former state during that period. Meaning that they are on their own if they are invaded, They are all their own if their economy collapses, And they will not have any form of free trade with the united states.

3; Former states shall be required to pay for the use of US waters. This means if texas secedes and wants to use the mississippi river to trade with canada, They have to pay the United States for the right to ship on the river because it is considered sovereign US waters.

4; Former states shall have no right to federal munitions located in their state. All arms, military vehicles, missiles, and other military equipment belonging to the US shall be removed from the state. Any Interference in this process will be an act of war and will be met with full military force.

5; Any former state which has succeeded from the US Which wishes to return to the united states shall be required to hold territory status for a period of no less than 20 years prior to being allowed to apply for statehood. This shall include the same limitation and restrictions of other federal territories, Such as having no representatives on the electoral college, They're delegates to congress having no right to vote on bills, And other such restrictions.

Options are...

Ship all illegals to dem sanctuary cities and states.
Official secession
Unofficial secession
Vote dem as an accelerationist to hasten the collapse.
Do nothing and live as tax slaves under perpetual dem rule...and be disarmed.

 

[lennypartiv]

I believe that it's time to create a legal mechanism in the constitution that will allow for peaceful secession.

I'd prefer we give the following states to Canada: California, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine.