It's not a Muslim ban, but....

[frigidweirdo]

So, the right are getting all in a tizz because the Media has called Trump's attempt at a ban on 7 countries, all of the Muslim, as a Muslim ban. Sure, it's not a Muslim ban, it doesn't include countries that the US finds convenient to pretend they're not strict Muslims because they happen to have a lot of oil and are willing to be two faced about their relationship with the US.

British Muslim teacher taken off US-bound flight: I was treated like a criminal

But then you have a British school teacher, on a school trip. And he gets taken off the plane. Five teachers, and the only teacher to get treated like this was called Mohammed. Oh, what a surprise.

It's not a ban, but certainly the US is making Islam the enemy, and making the lives of Muslims who go to the US much harder.

How many Christians have rights in these countries? Since you're our resident justice warrior now.

So, your point is, if many Muslim countries don't give rights to Christians, then we should be equally as bad as they are? Oh, amazing.

Muslims in the Mid East region don't respect individuals that believe in other faiths, it's embedded into their culture, with a rhetoric that refers to those religious "outsiders" as infidels. They have a choice to accept and coexist among other religions, this particular faith AND culture chooses not to. As a result, our president has a constitutional obligation as well as the clear written legislation, to limit refugees and especially those who may bring harm to the citizens of this country. There isn't anything in prior legislation that says such act to limit refugees entry is based on special "permission" of the court, it DOES state the president has the ultimate authority on the issue.

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

 

[9thIDdoc]

So, the right are getting all in a tizz because the Media has called Trump's attempt at a ban on 7 countries, all of the Muslim, as a Muslim ban. Sure, it's not a Muslim ban, it doesn't include countries that the US finds convenient to pretend they're not strict Muslims because they happen to have a lot of oil and are willing to be two faced about their relationship with the US.

British Muslim teacher taken off US-bound flight: I was treated like a criminal

But then you have a British school teacher, on a school trip. And he gets taken off the plane. Five teachers, and the only teacher to get treated like this was called Mohammed. Oh, what a surprise.

It's not a ban, but certainly the US is making Islam the enemy, and making the lives of Muslims who go to the US much harder.

Muslims have made America their enemy.
Only fair to return the favor.

The funny thing is, who started it? I mean, who was in whose countries causing problems?

The first attack in the USA by Muslim extremists was a shooting at Langley in 1993 (as far as I can tell). The US was in Muslim countries interfering from the end of WW2. The West has been in Muslim countries for hundreds of years, mostly the British and the French. The British essentially made Israel a country which also didn't help matters and the US has supported Israel for a long time.

The big thing in modern times though was the Iraq War, it has caused so many more problems. Very convenient for the right though, they then get to be tough on the terror and problems they created.

So? Totally beside the point. There is a hugh difference between "causing problems" and deliberate terrorism that most especially targets civilian women and children.

Yes, there's a huge difference. There's a huge difference between apples and oranges, but they're both fruit.

The actions of the US will haunt the world for decades, if not centuries. The invasion of Iraq will go down as one of the defining moments of the 21st Century, for all the wrong reasons. Someone makes a terrorist attack, the impact is usually not that far reaching, but the invasion of Iraq.... much worse.

Actually the invasion(s) of Iraq are something I am pleased with and proud of. It's about time for a new one. The problems have been the actions of our politicians after the invasions succeeded. Once taken it should become a US territory complete with US law and governance.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

So, the right are getting all in a tizz because the Media has called Trump's attempt at a ban on 7 countries, all of the Muslim, as a Muslim ban. Sure, it's not a Muslim ban, it doesn't include countries that the US finds convenient to pretend they're not strict Muslims because they happen to have a lot of oil and are willing to be two faced about their relationship with the US.

British Muslim teacher taken off US-bound flight: I was treated like a criminal

But then you have a British school teacher, on a school trip. And he gets taken off the plane. Five teachers, and the only teacher to get treated like this was called Mohammed. Oh, what a surprise.

It's not a ban, but certainly the US is making Islam the enemy, and making the lives of Muslims who go to the US much harder.

How many Christians have rights in these countries? Since you're our resident justice warrior now.

So, your point is, if many Muslim countries don't give rights to Christians, then we should be equally as bad as they are? Oh, amazing.

Muslims in the Mid East region don't respect individuals that believe in other faiths, it's embedded into their culture, with a rhetoric that refers to those religious "outsiders" as infidels. They have a choice to accept and coexist among other religions, this particular faith AND culture chooses not to. As a result, our president has a constitutional obligation as well as the clear written legislation, to limit refugees and especially those who may bring harm to the citizens of this country. There isn't anything in prior legislation that says such act to limit refugees entry is based on special "permission" of the court, it DOES state the president has the ultimate authority on the issue.

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

When it comes to atheists respect and overall tolerance for Christians or those that openly practice their faith, you may have a point.

However let me make my original point a little more clear. How many in this country are intentionally jailed by their government, or killed by its citizens and justified by the practice of their faith for believing in any other form of religion other than the one religious faith the nation follows as a part of their culture?

 

[whitehall]

Treated like a criminal? Immigrant Muslems who take the freedom of the U.S. for granted get away with being pretty sensitive these days. Try violating Sharia law and get locked up in the countries that Obama deemed a threat to security and learn what the phrase "treated like a criminal" means.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, the right are getting all in a tizz because the Media has called Trump's attempt at a ban on 7 countries, all of the Muslim, as a Muslim ban. Sure, it's not a Muslim ban, it doesn't include countries that the US finds convenient to pretend they're not strict Muslims because they happen to have a lot of oil and are willing to be two faced about their relationship with the US.

British Muslim teacher taken off US-bound flight: I was treated like a criminal

But then you have a British school teacher, on a school trip. And he gets taken off the plane. Five teachers, and the only teacher to get treated like this was called Mohammed. Oh, what a surprise.

It's not a ban, but certainly the US is making Islam the enemy, and making the lives of Muslims who go to the US much harder.

Muslims have made America their enemy.
Only fair to return the favor.

The funny thing is, who started it? I mean, who was in whose countries causing problems?

The first attack in the USA by Muslim extremists was a shooting at Langley in 1993 (as far as I can tell). The US was in Muslim countries interfering from the end of WW2. The West has been in Muslim countries for hundreds of years, mostly the British and the French. The British essentially made Israel a country which also didn't help matters and the US has supported Israel for a long time.

The big thing in modern times though was the Iraq War, it has caused so many more problems. Very convenient for the right though, they then get to be tough on the terror and problems they created.

So? Totally beside the point. There is a hugh difference between "causing problems" and deliberate terrorism that most especially targets civilian women and children.

Yes, there's a huge difference. There's a huge difference between apples and oranges, but they're both fruit.

The actions of the US will haunt the world for decades, if not centuries. The invasion of Iraq will go down as one of the defining moments of the 21st Century, for all the wrong reasons. Someone makes a terrorist attack, the impact is usually not that far reaching, but the invasion of Iraq.... much worse.

Actually the invasion(s) of Iraq are something I am pleased with and proud of. It's about time for a new one. The problems have been the actions of our politicians after the invasions succeeded. Once taken it should become a US territory complete with US law and governance.

Well, it doesn't surprise me that people see destruction, stupidity, fear making, etc as a good thing.

Personally I think Bush did what he did deliberately. It was all to disrupt OPEC, to make a new common enemy and increase that common enemy so the right could combat it for generations to come. I see why some people see this as positive, I see why some people think using the lives of US servicemen and women for their own goals. I don't, however, think it is a good thing.

A new one? So you want to create MORE problems, spend MORE money on the military, enriching the defense contractors, killing US servicemen and women, all for profit and fear?

You think the US could control Iraq? Not likely. If the US started doing that sort of thing, the US would suddenly find itself short on allies and long on enemies willing to fight back.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, the right are getting all in a tizz because the Media has called Trump's attempt at a ban on 7 countries, all of the Muslim, as a Muslim ban. Sure, it's not a Muslim ban, it doesn't include countries that the US finds convenient to pretend they're not strict Muslims because they happen to have a lot of oil and are willing to be two faced about their relationship with the US.

British Muslim teacher taken off US-bound flight: I was treated like a criminal

But then you have a British school teacher, on a school trip. And he gets taken off the plane. Five teachers, and the only teacher to get treated like this was called Mohammed. Oh, what a surprise.

It's not a ban, but certainly the US is making Islam the enemy, and making the lives of Muslims who go to the US much harder.

How many Christians have rights in these countries? Since you're our resident justice warrior now.

So, your point is, if many Muslim countries don't give rights to Christians, then we should be equally as bad as they are? Oh, amazing.

Muslims in the Mid East region don't respect individuals that believe in other faiths, it's embedded into their culture, with a rhetoric that refers to those religious "outsiders" as infidels. They have a choice to accept and coexist among other religions, this particular faith AND culture chooses not to. As a result, our president has a constitutional obligation as well as the clear written legislation, to limit refugees and especially those who may bring harm to the citizens of this country. There isn't anything in prior legislation that says such act to limit refugees entry is based on special "permission" of the court, it DOES state the president has the ultimate authority on the issue.

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

When it comes to atheists respect and overall tolerance for Christians or those that openly practice their faith, you may have a point.

However let me make my original point a little more clear. How many in this country are intentionally jailed by their government, or killed by its citizens and justified by the practice of their faith for believing in any other form of religion other than the one religious faith the nation follows as a part of their culture?

The problem is people like to get real specific in order to justify things.

It's like "How many people pick their nose in this country by using their 3rd toe nail which is painted pink and yellow and has been used as a weapon five times in the last 6 days?"

Well, probably none, but that doesn't mean people don't pick their nose.

You've been very specific, and I fail to see how this helps. Okay, in the US people are less likely to do what people in the Middle East do, they do it in a different way. It doesn't make either one better or worse, does it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Treated like a criminal? Immigrant Muslems who take the freedom of the U.S. for granted get away with being pretty sensitive these days. Try violating Sharia law and get locked up in the countries that Obama deemed a threat to security and learn what the phrase "treated like a criminal" means.

The same old argument of, well their countries aren't great, are they. Well, that doesn't make the US good.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

How many Christians have rights in these countries? Since you're our resident justice warrior now.

So, your point is, if many Muslim countries don't give rights to Christians, then we should be equally as bad as they are? Oh, amazing.

Muslims in the Mid East region don't respect individuals that believe in other faiths, it's embedded into their culture, with a rhetoric that refers to those religious "outsiders" as infidels. They have a choice to accept and coexist among other religions, this particular faith AND culture chooses not to. As a result, our president has a constitutional obligation as well as the clear written legislation, to limit refugees and especially those who may bring harm to the citizens of this country. There isn't anything in prior legislation that says such act to limit refugees entry is based on special "permission" of the court, it DOES state the president has the ultimate authority on the issue.

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

When it comes to atheists respect and overall tolerance for Christians or those that openly practice their faith, you may have a point.

However let me make my original point a little more clear. How many in this country are intentionally jailed by their government, or killed by its citizens and justified by the practice of their faith for believing in any other form of religion other than the one religious faith the nation follows as a part of their culture?

The problem is people like to get real specific in order to justify things.

It's like "How many people pick their nose in this country by using their 3rd toe nail which is painted pink and yellow and has been used as a weapon five times in the last 6 days?"

Well, probably none, but that doesn't mean people don't pick their nose.

You've been very specific, and I fail to see how this helps. Okay, in the US people are less likely to do what people in the Middle East do, they do it in a different way. It doesn't make either one better or worse, does it?

That's because you either don't know or choose to be ignorant to the view of other faiths in Muslim Mid East countries. Perhaps you feel that region shares the same rights and views as the United States as it pertains to an appreciation for the freedoms of religion with a view to uphold the freedom of speech. That kind of perception often happens with those who don't travel overseas and beyond the boundary of the United States, or choose to bury their head in the sand as to not allow themselves to see the religious persecution that takes place within these other Mid East countries.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, your point is, if many Muslim countries don't give rights to Christians, then we should be equally as bad as they are? Oh, amazing.

Muslims in the Mid East region don't respect individuals that believe in other faiths, it's embedded into their culture, with a rhetoric that refers to those religious "outsiders" as infidels. They have a choice to accept and coexist among other religions, this particular faith AND culture chooses not to. As a result, our president has a constitutional obligation as well as the clear written legislation, to limit refugees and especially those who may bring harm to the citizens of this country. There isn't anything in prior legislation that says such act to limit refugees entry is based on special "permission" of the court, it DOES state the president has the ultimate authority on the issue.

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

When it comes to atheists respect and overall tolerance for Christians or those that openly practice their faith, you may have a point.

However let me make my original point a little more clear. How many in this country are intentionally jailed by their government, or killed by its citizens and justified by the practice of their faith for believing in any other form of religion other than the one religious faith the nation follows as a part of their culture?

The problem is people like to get real specific in order to justify things.

It's like "How many people pick their nose in this country by using their 3rd toe nail which is painted pink and yellow and has been used as a weapon five times in the last 6 days?"

Well, probably none, but that doesn't mean people don't pick their nose.

You've been very specific, and I fail to see how this helps. Okay, in the US people are less likely to do what people in the Middle East do, they do it in a different way. It doesn't make either one better or worse, does it?

That's because you either don't know or choose to be ignorant to the view of other faiths in Muslim Mid East countries. Perhaps you feel that region shares the same rights and views as the United States as it pertains to an appreciation for the freedoms of religion with a view to uphold the freedom of speech. That kind of perception often happens with those who don't travel overseas and beyond the boundary of the United States, or choose to bury their head in the sand as to not allow themselves to see the religious persecution that takes place within these other Mid East countries.

Or perhaps I've been to the Middle East, been to a monastery in the Middle East....

I'm not ignorant here and I don't see how you can make such a statement from what I said. You've just gone on the attack You didn't actually say what problem you have with what I said, and you didn't make your own argument.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Muslims in the Mid East region don't respect individuals that believe in other faiths, it's embedded into their culture, with a rhetoric that refers to those religious "outsiders" as infidels. They have a choice to accept and coexist among other religions, this particular faith AND culture chooses not to. As a result, our president has a constitutional obligation as well as the clear written legislation, to limit refugees and especially those who may bring harm to the citizens of this country. There isn't anything in prior legislation that says such act to limit refugees entry is based on special "permission" of the court, it DOES state the president has the ultimate authority on the issue.

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

When it comes to atheists respect and overall tolerance for Christians or those that openly practice their faith, you may have a point.

However let me make my original point a little more clear. How many in this country are intentionally jailed by their government, or killed by its citizens and justified by the practice of their faith for believing in any other form of religion other than the one religious faith the nation follows as a part of their culture?

The problem is people like to get real specific in order to justify things.

It's like "How many people pick their nose in this country by using their 3rd toe nail which is painted pink and yellow and has been used as a weapon five times in the last 6 days?"

Well, probably none, but that doesn't mean people don't pick their nose.

You've been very specific, and I fail to see how this helps. Okay, in the US people are less likely to do what people in the Middle East do, they do it in a different way. It doesn't make either one better or worse, does it?

That's because you either don't know or choose to be ignorant to the view of other faiths in Muslim Mid East countries. Perhaps you feel that region shares the same rights and views as the United States as it pertains to an appreciation for the freedoms of religion with a view to uphold the freedom of speech. That kind of perception often happens with those who don't travel overseas and beyond the boundary of the United States, or choose to bury their head in the sand as to not allow themselves to see the religious persecution that takes place within these other Mid East countries.

Or perhaps I've been to the Middle East, been to a monastery in the Middle East....

I'm not ignorant here and I don't see how you can make such a statement from what I said. You've just gone on the attack You didn't actually say what problem you have with what I said, and you didn't make your own argument.

On the contrary I have already shared the problem, stating my point again in greater specifics for you to follow the kind of culture that exists there. Judging by your prior response, you don't appear to take the subject very seriously. As I've stated, there exists a strong established "religious culture" where muslims have persecuted people who have converted to other faiths. Christianity, as a common example of such persecution. I know because I have served overseas and I'm not blind to it. Those nations within the region are predominantly Muslim and they like to keep it that way, there is no open freedom of religious expression outside of their "own" Muslim faith or its political factions. Why do you think the palestianians, for example, raise their children through indoctrination to hate Jews? They also treat women as property with a second class view, this is all a part of their lifestyle. They don't have a respect beyond what their Islamic views dictate. That region is not the same Muslim faith that the left would like to project, as being the same as those American citizens who practice that religion within the United States. They have a hatred for Jews, and have a hatred for the western "culture" in general (not necessarily the United States) for their chosen moral acceptance of what they (and their strong Muslim faith) find repulsive. They don't simply condemn over there, they've put people to death for what they don't agree with. There are radical Muslim extremists who take it a step further and believe it's their calling in "cleansing" the western world of those who don't believe as they do. These radicals also have the financial support of certain Mid East governments who are sympathetic towards that view. That is the reality of the culture we face, who behead ... stone to death ... or in-prison those who are contrary to their way of life, one that's strictly dictated by their strong devoted Muslim religious view.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, there are people in the Middle East who don't respect other people's faiths. There are also people in the USA who don't respect other people's faiths. There are those in the US govt and many voters who also support those in govt who don't respect other people's beliefs and go around the world taking over Muslim countries for their own benefits too.

It's embedded in their culture, apparently.

When it comes to atheists respect and overall tolerance for Christians or those that openly practice their faith, you may have a point.

However let me make my original point a little more clear. How many in this country are intentionally jailed by their government, or killed by its citizens and justified by the practice of their faith for believing in any other form of religion other than the one religious faith the nation follows as a part of their culture?

The problem is people like to get real specific in order to justify things.

It's like "How many people pick their nose in this country by using their 3rd toe nail which is painted pink and yellow and has been used as a weapon five times in the last 6 days?"

Well, probably none, but that doesn't mean people don't pick their nose.

You've been very specific, and I fail to see how this helps. Okay, in the US people are less likely to do what people in the Middle East do, they do it in a different way. It doesn't make either one better or worse, does it?

That's because you either don't know or choose to be ignorant to the view of other faiths in Muslim Mid East countries. Perhaps you feel that region shares the same rights and views as the United States as it pertains to an appreciation for the freedoms of religion with a view to uphold the freedom of speech. That kind of perception often happens with those who don't travel overseas and beyond the boundary of the United States, or choose to bury their head in the sand as to not allow themselves to see the religious persecution that takes place within these other Mid East countries.

Or perhaps I've been to the Middle East, been to a monastery in the Middle East....

I'm not ignorant here and I don't see how you can make such a statement from what I said. You've just gone on the attack You didn't actually say what problem you have with what I said, and you didn't make your own argument.

On the contrary I have already shared the problem, stating my point again in greater specifics for you to follow the kind of culture that exists there. Judging by your prior response, you don't appear to take the subject very seriously. As I've stated, there exists a strong established "religious culture" where muslims have persecuted people who have converted to other faiths. Christianity, as a common example of such persecution. I know because I have served overseas and I'm not blind to it. Those nations within the region are predominantly Muslim and they like to keep it that way, there is no open freedom of religious expression outside of their "own" Muslim faith or its political factions. Why do you think the palestianians, for example, raise their children through indoctrination to hate Jews? They also treat women as property with a second class view, this is all a part of their lifestyle. They don't have a respect beyond what their Islamic views dictate. That region is not the same Muslim faith that the left would like to project, as being the same as those American citizens who practice that religion within the United States. They have a hatred for Jews, and have a hatred for the western "culture" in general (not necessarily the United States) for their chosen moral acceptance of what they (and their strong Muslim faith) find repulsive. They don't simply condemn over there, they've put people to death for what they don't agree with. There are radical Muslim extremists who take it a step further and believe it's their calling in "cleansing" the western world of those who don't believe as they do. These radicals also have the financial support of certain Mid East governments who are sympathetic towards that view. That is the reality of the culture we face, who behead ... stone to death ... or in-prison those who are contrary to their way of life, one that's strictly dictated by their strong devoted Muslim religious view.

The thing in the Middle East is that many of the countries are reactionary. It's not got much to do with Islam per se, but more to do with life.

Islam has been on the back foot for a long time. The Christian West has come in with aggressive policies that usually include taking over the country and deciding what happens. The British and French Empires started this, the US is continuing. Iraq didn't do what the US wanted, so it was invaded and a puppet govt put in place. Libya didn't, its leader was removed.

Islam has become more and more entrenched, more reactionary to this sort of thing, and as such it has led to what you see as a culture of religious persecution. It's not really hard to see how going around the world invading and bombing allows the hard right to recruit more towards their policies.

Why do they teach their kids to hate Jews? Because it's an easy policy to throw at people, it's Nationalism. Hate this group, you're better than this group but this group is doing things to hurt you, so we must fight back. Sounds great, but at the end of the day it makes things worse for the people. Again, you go around the world invading and bombing and you're going to see more of this sort of thing.

Hatred for the West is even simpler. I mean, who wouldn't hate the countries that go around bombing and invading and interfering all in the name of oil?