It's All Over!!!

[SAYIT]

How Skeptics Confronted 9/11 Denialism

by John Ray [exerpted for brevity]

"Skeptics today bemoan the overwhelming proportion of people who claim to believe in all manner of conspiracy theories from the JFK assassination to the origins of HIV-AIDS. For that reason, it may be worthwhile to take a moment to stop and celebrate one area in which skeptical advocacy has been overwhelming successful: the world of 9/11 conspiracies...

A tragedy on a scale at least comparable to Pearl Harbor or the Kennedy assassination was bound to inspire a conspiracy subculture, but the takeoff success of the viral Internet documentary Loose Change and the movement it created was unprecedented...

Yet, in just under four years, the 9/11 “truth movement” has ground to a halt. Apart from the fundamental incoherence of their theories, the downfall of the 9/11 denier juggernaut was good old-fashioned skepticism at its finest, the kind that conjures visions of James Randi challenging psychics and faith healers on their home turfs and winning...

Staking their fortunes almost solely on Internet-based content may have been the 9/11 deniers’ biggest mistake. What seems like a perfect place for pseudoscience — the Internet is un-edited, without fact-checkers or minimum publishing standards of any kind — also became a perfect place for a rapid-response system of blogs and forums to fight back...

The Internet forced many “ground-level” 9/11 deniers — those who spread the gospel on popular social networking sites like Facebook and in their own blogosphere — into a rhetorical corner.

Instantaneous information traps old, well-discussed claims into sheer redundancy. In three years of debating 9/11 deniers, I have encountered almost the exact same laundry list of claims on dozens of occasions. The same resources have been successful in debunking 9/11 myths since their inception, tipping the debate against them..."

Skeptic » eSkeptic » Wednesday, June 4th, 2008

 

[Toro]

The James Randi Educational Forum is a great debunking source.

 

[Mr. Jones]

The James Randi Educational Forum is a great debunking source.

Yes of course the all knowing 9-11 truth debunker who likes little boys..You people are a fucking joke...

 

[SAYIT]

The James Randi Educational Forum is a great debunking source.

Yes of course the all knowing 9-11 truth debunker who likes little boys..You people are a fucking joke...

Typical point by point refutation by a typically lame CT. Way to go, Princess. BTW, grow the fuck up.

 

[Mr. Jones]

The James Randi Educational Forum is a great debunking source.

Yes of course the all knowing 9-11 truth debunker who likes little boys..You people are a fucking joke...

Typical point by point refutation by a typically lame CT. Way to go, Princess. BTW, grow the fuck up.

Oh what's the matter poobut? Your hero turned out to be closet faggot child molester, and your other "skeptic" hero only knows how to rag on strawmen? Hey here's a thought...try abstaining from getting shitfaced so much and posting while drunk...nothing worse then a stupid drunk who thinks he knows what he's talking about....Just a little helpful advice poobut.

 

[Votto]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

 

[Freemason9]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

I believe I respectfully disagree. I believe that certain intelligence sources and black ops people were quite aware of the 9-11 plot, and likely assisted with the process to enable an American military agenda in the Middle East. An Iraq invasion was the ultimate goal--Afghanistan was an unfortunate byproduct that was necessary because of the Taliban influence with OBL.

In other words, Al Qaeda conducted the 9-11 attack--and they did so easily, with a little "nudge" from interests we have no control over.

The nutcases out there promoting "controlled demolition" and "missiles" fired at the Pentagon were merely disinformation strings that made all conspiracy theories involving 9-11 look stupid.

Why do I believe this?

(1) The attacks were too well orchestrated, too well planned, and too successful to be the product of a bunch of ragtag terrorists.

(2) There was obviously some prior knowledge of AQ activities before this happened.

(3) The political outcome of the attacks enabled the establishment of the "Department of Homeland Security," vastly more invasive surveillance of American citizens, and a gigantic uptick in defense industry contracts.

(4) The outcome also provided an excuse to invade Iraq.

Those guys needed high-level help; they could not have pulled that off on their own.

 

[Mr. Jones]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

Poo? Are you kidding? Government consists of people..people who are out of control and out of touch with the people they are supposed to be advocating for.
Corporations and special interests conspire with them so both party's can gain, and Americans don't.
You talk of conspiracies as though a "conspiracy" is some made up shit like Santa Claus.
You've been conditioned to dismiss the possibilities of things for fear of being ostracized, while real conspiracies are truly ripping your nation apart.
People have been conditioned to believe that only the conspiracies that the state claims, are true and real, no matter how fucking ridiculous or contrary to science, or lacking evidence they may be.
Some of you people put Bigfoot and reptilian aliens in the same category as the attack of 9-11. You can't get any
more idiotic then that. It's fucking shocking the level of ignorant stupidity that is displayed by some of you. Guess what...there is a huge difference, and folks know it
Fucking idiots come on here and can't seem to differentiate between total BS and and an attack on YOUR nation that is the most profound thing you, your family and for some, your kids have ever had to experience to date.
Dumbfucks posting idiotic shit and think they're clever when they can't even rub 2 brain cells together to create the spark of an intelligent thought that pertains to an event like 9-11.
I'm not surprised this nation is in the shit shape that it is in with the level of stupidity and ignorance displayed by some posters. It's no surprise we have morons and criminals leading the country as a result.

And you believe all the grand and elaborate BS and unlikely stories from a historically notorious lying entity, and even argue on their behalf about it, instead of questioning the validity of their claims and the ones who are responsible for it. The ones who lied and stole, and who mocked and laughed while
at a podium, pretending to look for the elusive WMD's, much to the delight and laughter of the elites in attendance that never had to face or say goodbye to a loved one killed or wounded in their wars.

The left/right is really no difference, it is only a charade to keep you distracted and stupid, and bickering with each other. They both talk of things like the budget, yet do not ever address the real problem that has enslaved the nation in perpetual debt like the non Federal Reserve.

We actually elect people that promise one thing and do the exact opposite, from both branches. Every fucking time...all the fucking time.
Obama pleged to have the most open administration and talked a good game especially against the Bush regime, but it is anything but that.
Some observant citizens complain. Some idiots complain about birth certificates, when the result is the same no matter where he was born or who spawned him.

Some of us bitch and moan and complain to the elected officials, maybe sign some petition that probably gets laughed at and shit canned anyway, but the interests that control them ultimately win out over the people all the time.
You aren't free to really mount any sort of real protests. You've seen what happens when we do, the pepper spraying, the brutalization of protestors, harassment, even killings.
So you figure you'll join against the protesting side out of cowardice and fear.

They even have the audacity to allow poison in our food and water, and even tell us what we can grow, and even eat.
If you don't abide by their laws and rules, they'll find a way to get you to do what they want. One way or another. We aren't free to say no, so it's easier to just stop saying NO
to whatever it is we don't agree with. If we don't, we run the risk of being noticed or getting in trouble, or maybe being ostracized and ridiculed by other cowards and making things bad for ourselves. This seems to be the collective thinking, and it is rampant on these message boards.
What would some of you do if there was another "terrorist" attack, and martial law was declared and they came to confiscate all firearms, or some economic "problem" and all the gold, silver, platinum etc..was to be turned in or confiscated AGAIN?

If you protest and stand against what you feel is unjust, you can be dragged through the Just-Us system until the lawyers fees bankrupt you, and you lose everything you ever earned, perhaps get sick because of the ordeal and die.
That's fine by them because they don't give a shit about you and yours anyway.
This has happened around the country, to good people. We know this is true, and it is a valid reason for being afraid. Fear is counted on to obtain the obedience the desire from us.
Many of our fellow citizens have been persecuted, and have lost all they have, and even died as a result of government tyranny, theft and corruption, but since it may not have happened to you or anyone you know, you don't care, not stopping to think and realizing that something similar may effect you personally someday.
What if there was no recourse, no system even in place, no laws to protect you from the injustice? What if what was in place for centuries to afford you protection from injustice had been taken away?
This is already happening here in America, but you don't think so or don't care because it hasn't personally effected you.
You feel safe in the perceived safety of the little cocoon, you call a life. Forced having to trust the people that you are compelled to believe in and trust with your safety and your life. You think you are being given a "choice" but in the end of a billion dollar circus that is called a campaign, you only have 2 choices, that do not address the real issues effecting any real change or positive direction.
We look for comfort in things we perceive we can control as an alternative. Hand me the remote...

We have been and still are being controlled, cajoled and manipulated into siding against our own best interests as a nation divided in a supposedly free republic. We have become complacent and lazy, medicated into a docile stupor to where the mere thought of
being summoned to observe and think something may be wrong with our conditioned social or world views is too much to fathom. It's too much effort, and the easy way out is always the most desired, and in many cases denial to the fullest extent is preferable then facing an uncomfortable truth.

Those in authority and in charge, are and have, incrementally instilled a sense of obedience to, and a fear of, a system that does not benefit or uplift us or humanity in general, and they depend on these 2 things to make you the obedient little debt slave you are and they envision that your children will continue to be.
Our ancestors were their debt slaves yesterday we are their debt slaves today and our children will be the debt slaves of tomorrow. The difference is that our ancestors had the capacity to realize this at one time and joined in unison to resist, and win.
They left a legacy of what they fought against and reminded us to be ever vigilant and guard against corruption and government tyranny.
Today one is taught to think that these things are out dated or extinct, or that they can never be resurrected, especially in America but they have permeated every facet of our society and are present everywhere.

Think about this for once...We vote for people that constantly say one thing, but then participate in ways counter to their words and take up legislation and causes that undermine your rights away and put limitations on the freedoms the nation has in place.
Why is that? What is behind their sudden turn of opinion and actions?

Perhaps tomorrow your kids wont even know the definition of the word "freedom".
People don't seem to care either, because after all, they went to work today, stopped by Applebees for drinks, used their social media that is being monitored to spy on them like Twitter and Facebook and experienced no problems, so they figure it doesn't effect them, what's the harm?.
Not realizing it is an incremental process that takes place hardly noticeable, setting us up for the day when some "executive" declaration of some sort is declared that isn't agreed with and we look to dust off those freedoms and rights we took for granted would always be there, (they're on some paper or something right?) but to our ignorant surprise are no longer valid, perhaps having been done away with a little at a time as part of some other bills pushed through congress, not read or noticed by those you voted into office to secure your safety. Maybe part of some emergency financial budget bill...

The public wouldn't notice because we are too busy attending to our lives jobs and families, blissfully thinking it could never happen here. Have you bothered to look at what attachments are in some of the bills your lawmakers and representatives are involved with?

These things have happened before. Seemingly intelligent people in free societies.
The same way the German people went along, slowly, incrementally, psychologically.
So when you may have asked "how could they have let that evil man Hitler do all those things"?
Now you know.
The architects of the German psychological molding machine were studied and used in many places. The atrocities and tactics the Nazis used and were condemned to death for are the same being used by our own government, and in South Africa, and in today's Israel.
It doesn't take a genius to look at things like this and make the comparisons or figure it out.

It does take some willing effort as the information and the history is vast, and we must stop depending on and having blind faith and confidence in others to tell us everything or "take care of" everything for us and stop the unquestioning blind faith approach.

Conspiracies that are detrimental to Americans, in all manner of things including and especially their government are very real. Those that say otherwise are very much mistaken and have been conditioned to deny this truth, and have evolved into nothing more then unthinking idiots who advocate on behalf of their own slavery.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtqaH-hnFs&feature=player_embedded]THE AMERICAN IDIOT - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Toro]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

Poo? Are you kidding? Government consists of people..people who are out of control and out of touch with the people they are supposed to be advocating for.
Corporations and special interests conspire with them so both party's can gain, and Americans don't.
You talk of conspiracies as though a "conspiracy" is some made up shit like Santa Claus.
You've been conditioned to dismiss the possibilities of things for fear of being ostracized, while real conspiracies are truly ripping your nation apart.
People have been conditioned to believe that only the conspiracies that the state claims, are true and real, no matter how fucking ridiculous or contrary to science, or lacking evidence they may be.
Some of you people put Bigfoot and reptilian aliens in the same category as the attack of 9-11. You can't get any
more idiotic then that. It's fucking shocking the level of ignorant stupidity that is displayed by some of you. Guess what...there is a huge difference, and folks know it
Fucking idiots come on here and can't seem to differentiate between total BS and and an attack on YOUR nation that is the most profound thing you, your family and for some, your kids have ever had to experience to date.
Dumbfucks posting idiotic shit and think they're clever when they can't even rub 2 brain cells together to create the spark of an intelligent thought that pertains to an event like 9-11.
I'm not surprised this nation is in the shit shape that it is in with the level of stupidity and ignorance displayed by some posters. It's no surprise we have morons and criminals leading the country as a result.

And you believe all the grand and elaborate BS and unlikely stories from a historically notorious lying entity, and even argue on their behalf about it, instead of questioning the validity of their claims and the ones who are responsible for it. The ones who lied and stole, and who mocked and laughed while
at a podium, pretending to look for the elusive WMD's, much to the delight and laughter of the elites in attendance that never had to face or say goodbye to a loved one killed or wounded in their wars.

The left/right is really no difference, it is only a charade to keep you distracted and stupid, and bickering with each other. They both talk of things like the budget, yet do not ever address the real problem that has enslaved the nation in perpetual debt like the non Federal Reserve.

We actually elect people that promise one thing and do the exact opposite, from both branches. Every fucking time...all the fucking time.
Obama pleged to have the most open administration and talked a good game especially against the Bush regime, but it is anything but that.
Some observant citizens complain. Some idiots complain about birth certificates, when the result is the same no matter where he was born or who spawned him.

Some of us bitch and moan and complain to the elected officials, maybe sign some petition that probably gets laughed at and shit canned anyway, but the interests that control them ultimately win out over the people all the time.
You aren't free to really mount any sort of real protests. You've seen what happens when we do, the pepper spraying, the brutalization of protestors, harassment, even killings.
So you figure you'll join against the protesting side out of cowardice and fear.

They even have the audacity to allow poison in our food and water, and even tell us what we can grow, and even eat.
If you don't abide by their laws and rules, they'll find a way to get you to do what they want. One way or another. We aren't free to say no, so it's easier to just stop saying NO
to whatever it is we don't agree with. If we don't, we run the risk of being noticed or getting in trouble, or maybe being ostracized and ridiculed by other cowards and making things bad for ourselves. This seems to be the collective thinking, and it is rampant on these message boards.
What would some of you do if there was another "terrorist" attack, and martial law was declared and they came to confiscate all firearms, or some economic "problem" and all the gold, silver, platinum etc..was to be turned in or confiscated AGAIN?

If you protest and stand against what you feel is unjust, you can be dragged through the Just-Us system until the lawyers fees bankrupt you, and you lose everything you ever earned, perhaps get sick because of the ordeal and die.
That's fine by them because they don't give a shit about you and yours anyway.
This has happened around the country, to good people. We know this is true, and it is a valid reason for being afraid. Fear is counted on to obtain the obedience the desire from us.
Many of our fellow citizens have been persecuted, and have lost all they have, and even died as a result of government tyranny, theft and corruption, but since it may not have happened to you or anyone you know, you don't care, not stopping to think and realizing that something similar may effect you personally someday.
What if there was no recourse, no system even in place, no laws to protect you from the injustice? What if what was in place for centuries to afford you protection from injustice had been taken away?
This is already happening here in America, but you don't think so or don't care because it hasn't personally effected you.
You feel safe in the perceived safety of the little cocoon, you call a life. Forced having to trust the people that you are compelled to believe in and trust with your safety and your life. You think you are being given a "choice" but in the end of a billion dollar circus that is called a campaign, you only have 2 choices, that do not address the real issues effecting any real change or positive direction.
We look for comfort in things we perceive we can control as an alternative. Hand me the remote...

We have been and still are being controlled, cajoled and manipulated into siding against our own best interests as a nation divided in a supposedly free republic. We have become complacent and lazy, medicated into a docile stupor to where the mere thought of
being summoned to observe and think something may be wrong with our conditioned social or world views is too much to fathom. It's too much effort, and the easy way out is always the most desired, and in many cases denial to the fullest extent is preferable then facing an uncomfortable truth.

Those in authority and in charge, are and have, incrementally instilled a sense of obedience to, and a fear of, a system that does not benefit or uplift us or humanity in general, and they depend on these 2 things to make you the obedient little debt slave you are and they envision that your children will continue to be.
Our ancestors were their debt slaves yesterday we are their debt slaves today and our children will be the debt slaves of tomorrow. The difference is that our ancestors had the capacity to realize this at one time and joined in unison to resist, and win.
They left a legacy of what they fought against and reminded us to be ever vigilant and guard against corruption and government tyranny.
Today one is taught to think that these things are out dated or extinct, or that they can never be resurrected, especially in America but they have permeated every facet of our society and are present everywhere.

Think about this for once...We vote for people that constantly say one thing, but then participate in ways counter to their words and take up legislation and causes that undermine your rights away and put limitations on the freedoms the nation has in place.
Why is that? What is behind their sudden turn of opinion and actions?

Perhaps tomorrow your kids wont even know the definition of the word "freedom".
People don't seem to care either, because after all, they went to work today, stopped by Applebees for drinks, used their social media that is being monitored to spy on them like Twitter and Facebook and experienced no problems, so they figure it doesn't effect them, what's the harm?.
Not realizing it is an incremental process that takes place hardly noticeable, setting us up for the day when some "executive" declaration of some sort is declared that isn't agreed with and we look to dust off those freedoms and rights we took for granted would always be there, (they're on some paper or something right?) but to our ignorant surprise are no longer valid, perhaps having been done away with a little at a time as part of some other bills pushed through congress, not read or noticed by those you voted into office to secure your safety. Maybe part of some emergency financial budget bill...

The public wouldn't notice because we are too busy attending to our lives jobs and families, blissfully thinking it could never happen here. Have you bothered to look at what attachments are in some of the bills your lawmakers and representatives are involved with?

These things have happened before. Seemingly intelligent people in free societies.
The same way the German people went along, slowly, incrementally, psychologically.
So when you may have asked "how could they have let that evil man Hitler do all those things"?
Now you know.
The architects of the German psychological molding machine were studied and used in many places. The atrocities and tactics the Nazis used and were condemned to death for are the same being used by our own government, and in South Africa, and in today's Israel.
It doesn't take a genius to look at things like this and make the comparisons or figure it out.

It does take some willing effort as the information and the history is vast, and we must stop depending on and having blind faith and confidence in others to tell us everything or "take care of" everything for us and stop the unquestioning blind faith approach.

Conspiracies that are detrimental to Americans, in all manner of things including and especially their government are very real. Those that say otherwise are very much mistaken and have been conditioned to deny this truth, and have evolved into nothing more then unthinking idiots who advocate on behalf of their own slavery.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtqaH-hnFs&feature=player_embedded]THE AMERICAN IDIOT - YouTube[/ame]

You conspiracy morons are the dumbest, most gullible idiots on the planet. You are the exact opposite of skeptics, willing to believe the most fantastic and improbable of events because you are totally submerged in your pathological hatred of government. This pathological hatred makes you unable to discern context. You guys take every nuance and discrepancy as proof of your little conspiracy theories but totally ignore massive, overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You use singular past events to rationalize any conspiracy, and have virtually no understanding of probabilities. You guys are a joke, rightfully condemned to the lunatic, nutter fringe of society, totally obsessed as you are unable to deal with randomness.

Other than that, have a nice weekend.

 

[Mr. Jones]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

Poo? Are you kidding? Government consists of people..people who are out of control and out of touch with the people they are supposed to be advocating for.
Corporations and special interests conspire with them so both party's can gain, and Americans don't.
You talk of conspiracies as though a "conspiracy" is some made up shit like Santa Claus.
You've been conditioned to dismiss the possibilities of things for fear of being ostracized, while real conspiracies are truly ripping your nation apart.
People have been conditioned to believe that only the conspiracies that the state claims, are true and real, no matter how fucking ridiculous or contrary to science, or lacking evidence they may be.
Some of you people put Bigfoot and reptilian aliens in the same category as the attack of 9-11. You can't get any
more idiotic then that. It's fucking shocking the level of ignorant stupidity that is displayed by some of you. Guess what...there is a huge difference, and folks know it
Fucking idiots come on here and can't seem to differentiate between total BS and and an attack on YOUR nation that is the most profound thing you, your family and for some, your kids have ever had to experience to date.
Dumbfucks posting idiotic shit and think they're clever when they can't even rub 2 brain cells together to create the spark of an intelligent thought that pertains to an event like 9-11.
I'm not surprised this nation is in the shit shape that it is in with the level of stupidity and ignorance displayed by some posters. It's no surprise we have morons and criminals leading the country as a result.

And you believe all the grand and elaborate BS and unlikely stories from a historically notorious lying entity, and even argue on their behalf about it, instead of questioning the validity of their claims and the ones who are responsible for it. The ones who lied and stole, and who mocked and laughed while
at a podium, pretending to look for the elusive WMD's, much to the delight and laughter of the elites in attendance that never had to face or say goodbye to a loved one killed or wounded in their wars.

The left/right is really no difference, it is only a charade to keep you distracted and stupid, and bickering with each other. They both talk of things like the budget, yet do not ever address the real problem that has enslaved the nation in perpetual debt like the non Federal Reserve.

We actually elect people that promise one thing and do the exact opposite, from both branches. Every fucking time...all the fucking time.
Obama pleged to have the most open administration and talked a good game especially against the Bush regime, but it is anything but that.
Some observant citizens complain. Some idiots complain about birth certificates, when the result is the same no matter where he was born or who spawned him.

Some of us bitch and moan and complain to the elected officials, maybe sign some petition that probably gets laughed at and shit canned anyway, but the interests that control them ultimately win out over the people all the time.
You aren't free to really mount any sort of real protests. You've seen what happens when we do, the pepper spraying, the brutalization of protestors, harassment, even killings.
So you figure you'll join against the protesting side out of cowardice and fear.

They even have the audacity to allow poison in our food and water, and even tell us what we can grow, and even eat.
If you don't abide by their laws and rules, they'll find a way to get you to do what they want. One way or another. We aren't free to say no, so it's easier to just stop saying NO
to whatever it is we don't agree with. If we don't, we run the risk of being noticed or getting in trouble, or maybe being ostracized and ridiculed by other cowards and making things bad for ourselves. This seems to be the collective thinking, and it is rampant on these message boards.
What would some of you do if there was another "terrorist" attack, and martial law was declared and they came to confiscate all firearms, or some economic "problem" and all the gold, silver, platinum etc..was to be turned in or confiscated AGAIN?

If you protest and stand against what you feel is unjust, you can be dragged through the Just-Us system until the lawyers fees bankrupt you, and you lose everything you ever earned, perhaps get sick because of the ordeal and die.
That's fine by them because they don't give a shit about you and yours anyway.
This has happened around the country, to good people. We know this is true, and it is a valid reason for being afraid. Fear is counted on to obtain the obedience the desire from us.
Many of our fellow citizens have been persecuted, and have lost all they have, and even died as a result of government tyranny, theft and corruption, but since it may not have happened to you or anyone you know, you don't care, not stopping to think and realizing that something similar may effect you personally someday.
What if there was no recourse, no system even in place, no laws to protect you from the injustice? What if what was in place for centuries to afford you protection from injustice had been taken away?
This is already happening here in America, but you don't think so or don't care because it hasn't personally effected you.
You feel safe in the perceived safety of the little cocoon, you call a life. Forced having to trust the people that you are compelled to believe in and trust with your safety and your life. You think you are being given a "choice" but in the end of a billion dollar circus that is called a campaign, you only have 2 choices, that do not address the real issues effecting any real change or positive direction.
We look for comfort in things we perceive we can control as an alternative. Hand me the remote...

We have been and still are being controlled, cajoled and manipulated into siding against our own best interests as a nation divided in a supposedly free republic. We have become complacent and lazy, medicated into a docile stupor to where the mere thought of
being summoned to observe and think something may be wrong with our conditioned social or world views is too much to fathom. It's too much effort, and the easy way out is always the most desired, and in many cases denial to the fullest extent is preferable then facing an uncomfortable truth.

Those in authority and in charge, are and have, incrementally instilled a sense of obedience to, and a fear of, a system that does not benefit or uplift us or humanity in general, and they depend on these 2 things to make you the obedient little debt slave you are and they envision that your children will continue to be.
Our ancestors were their debt slaves yesterday we are their debt slaves today and our children will be the debt slaves of tomorrow. The difference is that our ancestors had the capacity to realize this at one time and joined in unison to resist, and win.
They left a legacy of what they fought against and reminded us to be ever vigilant and guard against corruption and government tyranny.
Today one is taught to think that these things are out dated or extinct, or that they can never be resurrected, especially in America but they have permeated every facet of our society and are present everywhere.

Think about this for once...We vote for people that constantly say one thing, but then participate in ways counter to their words and take up legislation and causes that undermine your rights away and put limitations on the freedoms the nation has in place.
Why is that? What is behind their sudden turn of opinion and actions?

Perhaps tomorrow your kids wont even know the definition of the word "freedom".
People don't seem to care either, because after all, they went to work today, stopped by Applebees for drinks, used their social media that is being monitored to spy on them like Twitter and Facebook and experienced no problems, so they figure it doesn't effect them, what's the harm?.
Not realizing it is an incremental process that takes place hardly noticeable, setting us up for the day when some "executive" declaration of some sort is declared that isn't agreed with and we look to dust off those freedoms and rights we took for granted would always be there, (they're on some paper or something right?) but to our ignorant surprise are no longer valid, perhaps having been done away with a little at a time as part of some other bills pushed through congress, not read or noticed by those you voted into office to secure your safety. Maybe part of some emergency financial budget bill...

The public wouldn't notice because we are too busy attending to our lives jobs and families, blissfully thinking it could never happen here. Have you bothered to look at what attachments are in some of the bills your lawmakers and representatives are involved with?

These things have happened before. Seemingly intelligent people in free societies.
The same way the German people went along, slowly, incrementally, psychologically.
So when you may have asked "how could they have let that evil man Hitler do all those things"?
Now you know.
The architects of the German psychological molding machine were studied and used in many places. The atrocities and tactics the Nazis used and were condemned to death for are the same being used by our own government, and in South Africa, and in today's Israel.
It doesn't take a genius to look at things like this and make the comparisons or figure it out.

It does take some willing effort as the information and the history is vast, and we must stop depending on and having blind faith and confidence in others to tell us everything or "take care of" everything for us and stop the unquestioning blind faith approach.

Conspiracies that are detrimental to Americans, in all manner of things including and especially their government are very real. Those that say otherwise are very much mistaken and have been conditioned to deny this truth, and have evolved into nothing more then unthinking idiots who advocate on behalf of their own slavery.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtqaH-hnFs&feature=player_embedded]THE AMERICAN IDIOT - YouTube[/ame]

You conspiracy morons are the dumbest, most gullible idiots on the planet.

Why because we aren't the most gullible and don't fall for the dumbest unprovable, fantastic stories like the OCT, or the OBL death and burial at sea? I'm not at all closed minded to these and am willing to listen to whatever proof you might have to convince me I'm wrong.
But this coming from an individual who believes in one of the most unlikeliest of conspiracies, that depends on unprovable science, physics and wild circumstances, that upon further review is a farce is an expected and stupid statement.

You are the exact opposite of skeptics, willing to believe the most fantastic and improbable of events because you are totally submerged in your pathological hatred of government.

And your unprovable non scientific, physically impossible, most improbable and fantastic explanation of the event of 9-11 is true because why again?
I have no pathological hatred of government, I do detest lies that send our people to die, and infringe on our nations laws, and freedoms, and used to resort to things that civilized societies abhor like torture.
Again, government is made up of people, it is supposed to benefit us but if there are bad people within it who use their authority within the government in bad ways very bad things can happen.
Bad people, even just a few can=bad government. Government in and of itself is a good thing and is needed,
Understand now?

This pathological hatred makes you unable to discern context.

There is nothing pathological about being aware, alert, and having the ability to dicern between reality and fiction.
You take the meaning of "conspiracy" and what it implies out of context, and imply it to mean nutty, crazy, way out etc.. when it is nothing of the sort, and in fact occurs all the time. Try a little harder to discern this next time.

You guys take every nuance and discrepancy as proof of your little conspiracy theories but totally ignore massive, overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

You fail to analyze any nuance and discrepancy that may hurt your preconceived notions.
I, personally take the facts as presented to me and analyze them and the outcomes and come up with a physical impossibility.
All you do is say we are crazy, take things out of context etc and leave out any rational explanation as to why we are such for having our opinion. We provide you with the reasons and the rationale, and you rebuttal with nothing but this type of BS. That isn't very clever of you, and you show a rather immature level of discussion.
Why don't you try explaining something along the lines say
" I believe the 9-11 event happened as I am told because of------------."
That would be a start, or don't you have anything you contribute or could share with us
that would provide anything of use or insightful?

Massive steel buildings imploding and ejecting tons of debris away from the collapse front while still managing to come down upon itself with "only minimal resistance"
is not a nuance, or small a discrepancy.

I'm sure we'd like to know what your overwhelming evidence is that can dismiss science and physical laws and properties. Seriously what can you point to as overwhelming evidence that solidifies your beliefs that
1.steel can be reduced to such weakened states without the need of the extreme temperatures available to do so?
2. a smaller mass can reduce a much larger one and totally overcome it in near free fall time and acceleration. 2 times on 9-11.

You use singular past events to rationalize any conspiracy, and have virtually no understanding of probabilities.

Any conspiracy? Care to be more specific, I was talking about 9-11.
A consistent series of singular past events, in time can no longer be considered as such, because it then becomes a pattern.Consistently spewing Lies that lead to wars, are a pattern, not a singular event and can not be considered coincidences.
You also have no understanding of improbabilities and when declaring one has occurred, the level of proof and evidence needed to convince people one has occurred..
The WTC complex buildings collapsed because of fires, it is said. This has never before happened in history, therefore it is deemed an improbable event.
So what proof or evidence have you that this improbability did indeed occur?

You guys are a joke, rightfully condemned to the lunatic, nutter fringe of society, totally obsessed as you are unable to deal with randomness.

Ah the ad homenem when there is nothing of substance for you to reply with, brilliant.
You know everything you are accusing me of is exactly what you are displaying, you know that don't you?

Other than that, have a nice weekend.

Knowing how pathetic you are
will add to it, thanks.

 

[Richard-H]

I believe:

1. Mohammud Atta was a double agent working for Al Queda and Pakistani Intellegence.

2. Atta's group of terrorists were trained by Al Queda for the 9/11 attacks.

3. Al Queda did not order the attacks to be executed.

4. The Bush Administration gave Anthrax to Pakistani intelligence who then gave it to Atta & Co., so the that they would send it to 'The American Media' and give the U.S. an excuse to invade Afghanistan.

5. Mohammud Atta & several on his team accidentally poisoned themselves with the Anthrax.

6. Dying, Atta decided on his own to launch the 9/11 attacks.

7. Atta gave the remaining Anthrax to other members of his cell and instructed them to send the Anthrax to "The American Media".

8. 9/11

9. Misunderstanding their orders, Atta's stooges sent the first anthrax to the company name "American Media", then figure out what had been intended and sent the rest to various American media & news agencies.

10. The Bush administration arrested the remaining members of Atta's cell and put them away in Guantanamo bay so as to be sure that they could never divulge the source of the anthrax.

11. Bin Laden decides to accept the credit and blame for the 9/11 attacks because it would have been useless to deny it and it would have caused him to lose face in the terrorist world if he had denied it.

 

[SAYIT]

The left/right is really no difference, it is only a charade to keep you distracted and stupid, and bickering with each other. They both talk of things like the budget, yet do not ever address the real problem that has enslaved the nation in perpetual debt like the non Federal Reserve.

Your screed is so scattershot and paranoia-laden I was forced to cherry pick what I believe to be at the core of all CTs. You think you are smarter and more focused than anyone who does not share your insipid beliefs and all who ridicule them must be agents of Big Bro. Here's a clue for you, Princess:
Get out of your Mom's basement and get a life.

 

[SAYIT]

The James Randi Educational Forum is a great debunking source.

Yes of course the all knowing 9-11 truth debunker who likes little boys..You people are a fucking joke...

Of course, you provide no source for your "knowledge" of Randi because it does not exist. Like all your CT BS, it's all in your tiny, little pinhead, Princess. However, the man has garnered a boatload of recognition for his work debunking frauds. No wonder one so lame as you would libel him:
In 1981, asteroid 3163 Randi was named after Randi, who has always been an active amateur observer. His friend Carl Sagan encouraged his interest.[13]
MacArthur Foundation Fellowship for his investigations of the claims of Uri Geller and TV "faith healers." 1986[106]
American Physical Society Joseph A. Burton Forum Award 1989[107]
Richard Dawkins Award 2003[108]
Philip J. Klass Award 2007[109]
Independent Investigations Group (IIG) awarded a Lifetime Achievement Award, August 2007. Previous recipients Carl Sagan and Harry Houdini.[110]
Committee for Skeptical Inquiry In Praise of Reason Award, 2009
Elected a Committee for Skeptical Inquiry Fellow, 2010[111]
Academy of Magical Arts Lifetime Achievement Fellowship, April 2012[112]
American Humanist Association Lifetime Achievement Award, June 2012[113]

James Randi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SAYIT]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

I believe I respectfully disagree. I believe that certain intelligence sources and black ops people were quite aware of the 9-11 plot, and likely assisted with the process to enable an American military agenda in the Middle East. An Iraq invasion was the ultimate goal--Afghanistan was an unfortunate byproduct that was necessary because of the Taliban influence with OBL.

In other words, Al Qaeda conducted the 9-11 attack--and they did so easily, with a little "nudge" from interests we have no control over.

The nutcases out there promoting "controlled demolition" and "missiles" fired at the Pentagon were merely disinformation strings that made all conspiracy theories involving 9-11 look stupid.

My take is that all CTs have an irresistible need to feel superior to the rest of us and some even need to feel superior to other CTs. Sort of a smartest of the smartest in their own little minds.
A convention of these CT loons would boil down to a shouting match with one CT screaming "My CT is factual and yours is bogus" which would elicit the response "No, my CT is factual and you are an agent of disinformation!" Frankly, IMHO they are all pompous loons.

 

[georgephillip]

I can understand why rightwingers would be government conspiracy theorists. It's because they think big government is inherently evil. What I don't understand is why those on the left are as well like 9/11 goof balls or those that theorize about JFK. After all, it is their goal to make government bigger and more powerful so they can presumably do more of this poo.

I believe I respectfully disagree. I believe that certain intelligence sources and black ops people were quite aware of the 9-11 plot, and likely assisted with the process to enable an American military agenda in the Middle East. An Iraq invasion was the ultimate goal--Afghanistan was an unfortunate byproduct that was necessary because of the Taliban influence with OBL.

In other words, Al Qaeda conducted the 9-11 attack--and they did so easily, with a little "nudge" from interests we have no control over.

The nutcases out there promoting "controlled demolition" and "missiles" fired at the Pentagon were merely disinformation strings that made all conspiracy theories involving 9-11 look stupid.

My take is that all CTs have an irresistible need to feel superior to the rest of us and some even need to feel superior to other CTs. Sort of a smartest of the smartest in their own little minds.
A convention of these CT loons would boil down to a shouting match with one CT screaming "My CT is factual and yours is bogus" which would elicit the response "No, my CT is factual and you are an agent of disinformation!" Frankly, IMHO they are all pompous loons.

So you can explain how two planes collapsed three steel framed skyscrapers?
How about WTC7?
2.25 seconds of free fall acceleation?
Are you afraid of a full congressional investigation into 911 for the same reasons you obfuscate Israel's deliberate attack of the USS Liberty?

 

[SAYIT]

I believe I respectfully disagree. I believe that certain intelligence sources and black ops people were quite aware of the 9-11 plot, and likely assisted with the process to enable an American military agenda in the Middle East. An Iraq invasion was the ultimate goal--Afghanistan was an unfortunate byproduct that was necessary because of the Taliban influence with OBL.

In other words, Al Qaeda conducted the 9-11 attack--and they did so easily, with a little "nudge" from interests we have no control over.

The nutcases out there promoting "controlled demolition" and "missiles" fired at the Pentagon were merely disinformation strings that made all conspiracy theories involving 9-11 look stupid.

My take is that all CTs have an irresistible need to feel superior to the rest of us and some even need to feel superior to other CTs. Sort of a smartest of the smartest in their own little minds.
A convention of these CT loons would boil down to a shouting match with one CT screaming "My CT is factual and yours is bogus" which would elicit the response "No, my CT is factual and you are an agent of disinformation!" Frankly, IMHO they are all pompous loons.

So you can explain how two planes collapsed three steel framed skyscrapers?
How about WTC7?
2.25 seconds of free fall acceleation?
Are you afraid of a full congressional investigation into 911 for the same reasons you obfuscate Israel's deliberate attack of the USS Liberty?

Ya got me, Princess. I'm an Israeli disinformation agent trying to keep really smart peeps like you from figuring out what really happened on 9/11.

 

[Mr. Jones]

My take is that all CTs have an irresistible need to feel superior to the rest of us and some even need to feel superior to other CTs. Sort of a smartest of the smartest in their own little minds.

I see you're feeling a bit insecure, as can be expected as you seem to know nothing about this topic and resort to little fits and childish smear tactics.

A convention of these CT loons would boil down to a shouting match with one CT screaming "My CT is factual and yours is bogus" which would elicit the response "No, my CT is factual and you are an agent of disinformation!" Frankly, IMHO they are all pompous loons.

So humorous but sad at the same time, to witness such insecurity and total failure on your part when you have nothing to offer to the discussion at hand. You could try to read up and familiarize yourself with the topic but you obviously find it is beyond your level of comprehension poobutt.

The left/right is really no difference, it is only a charade to keep you distracted and stupid, and bickering with each other. They both talk of things like the budget, yet do not ever address the real problem that has enslaved the nation in perpetual debt like the non Federal Reserve.

Your screed is so scattershot and paranoia-laden I was forced to cherry pick what I believe to be at the core of all CTs. You think you are smarter and more focused than anyone who does not share your insipid beliefs and all who ridicule them must be agents of Big Bro. Here's a clue for you, Princess:
Get out of your Mom's basement and get a life.

Insipid is what can described what you consider a response to most posters who have a different opinion about 9-11 then yours. There are quite a few people on here that are indeed smarter and more focused on this topic then you, and a quick glance at what you post will confirm this.
While there is proof that there are people that can be considered "agents" put in place to use various means to ridicule those that do not believe the OCT narrative, it doesn't take an employee working in a call center type environment pretending to be a regular Joe on message boards and comments sections, there are many who are just plain usefull idiots that do not think for themselves out of cowardice. This better describes you, as you aren't versed enough in what you try to participate in to be considered an adequate "agent", unless your specific job duty only entails posting insipid, childish rants and ad hominem.
In your response above, you once again do not provide anything interesting that solidifies your belief about the topic.
You instead resort to the same ole BS of saying we are paranoid CTers, living in someones basement, while replying with nothing that defends your positions.
You are only here to ridicule, distract or inflame and doing a shamefully poor job in the process.

 

[Mr. Jones]

My take is that all CTs have an irresistible need to feel superior to the rest of us and some even need to feel superior to other CTs. Sort of a smartest of the smartest in their own little minds.
A convention of these CT loons would boil down to a shouting match with one CT screaming "My CT is factual and yours is bogus" which would elicit the response "No, my CT is factual and you are an agent of disinformation!" Frankly, IMHO they are all pompous loons.

So you can explain how two planes collapsed three steel framed skyscrapers?
How about WTC7?
2.25 seconds of free fall acceleation?
Are you afraid of a full congressional investigation into 911 for the same reasons you obfuscate Israel's deliberate attack of the USS Liberty?

Ya got me, Princess. I'm an Israeli disinformation agent trying to keep really smart peeps like you from figuring out what really happened on 9/11.

No you're entirely too stupid to be that. That's readily obvious. It's also obvious how you ignore the questions he asked you, and you respond with the quick lame reply.
You MO is to run away from confrontation like an insecure little child.

 

[SAYIT]

My take is that all CTs have an irresistible need to feel superior to the rest of us and some even need to feel superior to other CTs. Sort of a smartest of the smartest in their own little minds.

I see you're feeling a bit insecure, as can be expected as you seem to know nothing about this topic and resort to little fits and childish smear tactics.

Childish smear tactics? Evidently I hit a nerve and I'll tell you what I do know: All CTs invariably need psuedoscience, half-truths and outright lies to support your fantasies.

So humorous but sad at the same time, to witness such insecurity and total failure on your part when you have nothing to offer to the discussion at hand. You could try to read up and familiarize yourself with the topic but you obviously find it is beyond your level of comprehension poobutt.

Indeed I "read up" pretty much everytime one of you loons dumps another load of CT crap here and each time your "proof" has been readily and easily debunked. It is you who never questions the BS that oozes from your seedy CT World.

The left/right is really no difference, it is only a charade to keep you distracted and stupid, and bickering with each other. They both talk of things like the budget, yet do not ever address the real problem that has enslaved the nation in perpetual debt like the non Federal Reserve.

Your screed is so scattershot and paranoia-laden I was forced to cherry pick what I believe to be at the core of all CTs. You think you are smarter and more focused than anyone who does not share your insipid beliefs and all who ridicule them must be agents of Big Bro. Here's a clue for you, Princess:
Get out of your Mom's basement and get a life.

Insipid is what can described what you consider a response to most posters who have a different opinion about 9-11 then yours. There are quite a few people on here that are indeed smarter and more focused on this topic then you, and a quick glance at what you post will confirm this.

Yes there are peeps here who are smarter than me, Princess (present company excluded) but there is something very wrong about adults who scour the fetid bowels of the WWW to find all manner of insipid CTs which they accept as truth without question. Ironically, The Skeptics Society would be a leading voice in the CT World if your BS had validity. Unfortunately for you 9/11 "truthers," they seem to find the CT World's "facts" to be far more fertile ground for their skepticism.

While there is proof that there are people that can be considered "agents" put in place to use various means to ridicule those that do not believe the OCT narrative, it doesn't take an employee working in a call center type environment pretending to be a regular Joe on message boards and comments sections, there are many who are just plain usefull idiots that do not think for themselves out of cowardice. This better describes you, as you aren't versed enough in what you try to participate in to be considered an adequate "agent", unless your specific job duty only entails posting insipid, childish rants and ad hominem.
In your response above, you once again do not provide anything interesting that solidifies your belief about the topic.
You instead resort to the same ole BS of saying we are paranoid CTers, living in someones basement, while replying with nothing that defends your positions.
You are only here to ridicule, distract or inflame and doing a shamefully poor job in the process.

While I have certainly had relatively rational disagreements with the few relatively rational CTs here, I have found the die hards like you to be so lacking in reason and factual knowledge as to render adult conversation impossible. I admit I do not suffer fools well and while I have great patience with children I have little for adults who act like children. Grow up and get out of your Mommy's basement, Princess. Get a life.

 

[SAYIT]

So you can explain how two planes collapsed three steel framed skyscrapers?
How about WTC7?
2.25 seconds of free fall acceleation?
Are you afraid of a full congressional investigation into 911 for the same reasons you obfuscate Israel's deliberate attack of the USS Liberty?

Ya got me, Princess. I'm an Israeli disinformation agent trying to keep really smart peeps like you from figuring out what really happened on 9/11.

No you're entirely too stupid to be that. That's readily obvious. It's also obvious how you ignore the questions he asked you, and you respond with the quick lame reply.
You MO is to run away from confrontation like an insecure little child.

His "questions" have been reliably answered in dozens of current posts here, by the NIST report, and by dozens of credible sources. You might want to "read up" on the subject.
He wasn't asking sincere questions about 9/11, he was trying to turn this into another USS Liberty debate, a subject he and I have exhausted where it belongs ... on the Israel/Palestine board.