It's a False Doctrine That People Go To Heaven Immediately After Death

[hobelim]

roflmao!!! Why post such ignorance??? Sinners that confess and repent just as the thief on the cross next to jesus go to be with god the split second after death!!

i guess that leaves you out. Unless you repent of your idolatrous worship of a man, desecration of the teachings of jesus, setting aside the laws of god and teaching others to do the same, one second after death, one second too late, you will discover that you have no place among the righteous and never did.

no worries for me!!! Ptl. Gismys=god is my source=gismys!!! Ptl. ===but you???

Right, no worries for you. That must be why you are always on the verge of hysteria.

I might believe you if I didn't see you with my own eyes brazenly perjuring yourself in the name of God as an expression of your religious devotion every day and every night as if you were completely oblivious to the fact that you appear before more highly evolved creatures to be little more than a pusillanimous worm secreting hubris, a joke and object of ridicule filled to bursting with greed, envy and false pride, claiming the name of the Lord in a pathetic attempt to compensate for your insecurities and for your feelings of inadequacy and self loathing for deliberately choosing to be such a spineless and deceitful coward..


May I bring you some clothes your majesty?

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

And you know this how? For some religion is a comfort, as is belief in heaven. Who the hell do you think you are to take that away from them? Maybe you oughta just STFU.

My friend, The Gospel isn't about feelings, as in what individuals feel about certain issues.

It's about The Truth.

It's very comforting for humans to believe that their loved ones aren't really dead, but looking down on them in heaven, that doesn't make it true.

Doesn't make it not true either.

I believe in Thus Said The Lord, and The Lord didn't say we get an instant trip to Heaven upon death.

Sorta left that impression though, no?

First of all, what the bible says may or may not really be the complete truth. It says a lot of contradictory things, one can accept parts of it or none of it and still believe in God or in Christianity.

Here's the deal, you can believe whatever you want, fine by me. But stomping on somebody's else's beliefs, I kinda have a problem with that. Marginalizing someone else for having a different viewpoint, that ain't cool in my book. I tend to lose a lot of respect for those who do that.

I don't think calling bullshit on Christians who say things that are contrary to the teachings of Christianity is marginalizing them. Calling them on the carpet, maybe, but certainly not marginalizing them.

 

[Clement]

No interpretation needed! Trust the Holyspirit TO GUIDE BELIEVERS INTO ALL TRUTH! The Bible interprets it's sself.

I wish I had a nickel for everybody I have met who claims he has The Holy Spirit and spouts the worst kind of heresies imaginable. Saying you have the Spirit doesn't make it so. In fact, I am preaching on this very thing next Sunday, and on how we know when someone has the Spirit.

The spiritually minded are not carnally minded, or not worldly minded, if you prefer. See 1 Corinthians 2 and 3.

Getting back to the OP, I would like for him to show us what he has before the argument starts.

What what do I have?

Not sure what you mean sir?

Where is the proof of your assertions? You said you had proof. I'd like to know exactly what it is you claim to know.

Also, a few pages back, you said this:

Moreover, it's dangerous to your eternal salvation.

How so?

Let me also add that I find it hard to take anyone seriously who heaps scorn on their own brothers and sisters in Christ, as you did when you dissed the Catholic church. Is it possible there are some doctrines you don't understand?

 

[MarcATL]

I wish I had a nickel for everybody I have met who claims he has The Holy Spirit and spouts the worst kind of heresies imaginable. Saying you have the Spirit doesn't make it so. In fact, I am preaching on this very thing next Sunday, and on how we know when someone has the Spirit.

The spiritually minded are not carnally minded, or not worldly minded, if you prefer. See 1 Corinthians 2 and 3.

Getting back to the OP, I would like for him to show us what he has before the argument starts.

What what do I have?

Not sure what you mean sir?

Where is the proof of your assertions? You said you had proof. I'd like to know exactly what it is you claim to know.

Also, a few pages back, you said this:

Moreover, it's dangerous to your eternal salvation.

How so?

Let me also add that I find it hard to take anyone seriously who heaps scorn on their own brothers and sisters in Christ, as you did when you dissed the Catholic church. Is it possible there are some doctrines you don't understand?

My proof is Scripture sir.

You will note I posted texts with just about every post.

If not, I can post text to back-up my claims.

As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, this isn't the time nor place...aka, start a thread on that. That will be a doozy.

 

[Clement]

What what do I have?

Not sure what you mean sir?

Where is the proof of your assertions? You said you had proof. I'd like to know exactly what it is you claim to know.

Also, a few pages back, you said this:

Moreover, it's dangerous to your eternal salvation.

How so?

Let me also add that I find it hard to take anyone seriously who heaps scorn on their own brothers and sisters in Christ, as you did when you dissed the Catholic church. Is it possible there are some doctrines you don't understand?

My proof is Scripture sir.

You will note I posted texts with just about every post.

If not, I can post text to back-up my claims.

As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, this isn't the time nor place...aka, start a thread on that. That will be a doozy.

Please do, the Cliff Notes version will be fine.

Okay, I will start a separate thread on the RCC.

 

[Avatar4321]

So are you a Buddhist, or are you calling Jesus a liar when he told the thief on the other cross, that he would be with him in heaven that day?

You are falsely assuming paradise and heaven are the same place. You'd know that if you read through the thread.

Christ told Mary after His resurrection that he had not yet ascended to heaven. Which means He would be lying of paradise was the same place.

There is a place between death and resurrection where the spirits of the dead dwell awaiting for their resurrection. This is the place Christ would meet the Thief. This is where Christ preached to the dead.

Jesus EMPTYED PARADISE when he arose from the dead, now for believers it is ABSENT FROM THE BODY PRESENT WITH GOD!!!

Where does the Bible say that?

There is still a time between death and resurrection. Unless you're proposing that when we die we immediately come back to life. I think people would have noticed that.

 

[Avatar4321]

So are you a Buddhist, or are you calling Jesus a liar when he told the thief on the other cross, that he would be with him in heaven that day?

You are falsely assuming paradise and heaven are the same place. You'd know that if you read through the thread.

Christ told Mary after His resurrection that he had not yet ascended to heaven. Which means He would be lying of paradise was the same place.

There is a place between death and resurrection where the spirits of the dead dwell awaiting for their resurrection. This is the place Christ would meet the Thief. This is where Christ preached to the dead.

No, Jesus said that he had not yet ascended to the Father which does not mean that he had not yet entered the kingdom of heaven, the realm of eternal life, which he must have or else he wouldn't have been standing there talking to her after being killed.

....And as the first fruits of the dead, every time Jesus taught before he was killed he was preaching to the dead who were awaiting resurrection in the tomb of false religion.

If one had to wait until they were physically dead before they entered the kingdom of heaven how is it that Jesus told the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven ahead of the them?

The resurrection is not about the resumption of a former existence, it is entry into a new existence.

If a person does not ascend into heaven while they still have a physical body, how could they possibly do it without one?

No one can repent from the grave.

1) no one is saying that a person does not ascend while they have a physical body. Quite the opposite.
2) who says no one can repent from the grave? Final judgment isnt until after the resurrection. And there are millions who do not know Christ who have yet to hear the Gospel and never will in this life.

 

[Avatar4321]

You are falsely assuming paradise and heaven are the same place. You'd know that if you read through the thread.

Christ told Mary after His resurrection that he had not yet ascended to heaven. Which means He would be lying of paradise was the same place.

There is a place between death and resurrection where the spirits of the dead dwell awaiting for their resurrection. This is the place Christ would meet the Thief. This is where Christ preached to the dead.

No, Jesus said that he had not yet ascended to the Father which does not mean that he had not yet entered the kingdom of heaven, the realm of eternal life, which he must have or else he wouldn't have been standing there talking to her after being killed.

....And as the first fruits of the dead, every time Jesus taught before he was killed he was preaching to the dead who were awaiting resurrection in the tomb of false religion.

If one had to wait until they were physically dead before they entered the kingdom of heaven how is it that Jesus told the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven ahead of the them?

The resurrection is not about the resumption of a former existence, it is entry into a new existence.

If a person does not ascend into heaven while they still have a physical body, how could they possibly do it without one?

No one can repent from the grave.

ROFLMAO!!! Why post such ignorance??? sinners that confess and repent just as the thief on the cross next to Jesus go to be with God the split second after death!!

And yet, Jesus Christ who didn't sin didn't go to His Father until after His resurrection.

 

[GISMYS]

No, Jesus said that he had not yet ascended to the Father which does not mean that he had not yet entered the kingdom of heaven, the realm of eternal life, which he must have or else he wouldn't have been standing there talking to her after being killed.

....And as the first fruits of the dead, every time Jesus taught before he was killed he was preaching to the dead who were awaiting resurrection in the tomb of false religion.

If one had to wait until they were physically dead before they entered the kingdom of heaven how is it that Jesus told the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven ahead of the them?

The resurrection is not about the resumption of a former existence, it is entry into a new existence.

If a person does not ascend into heaven while they still have a physical body, how could they possibly do it without one?

No one can repent from the grave.

ROFLMAO!!! Why post such ignorance??? sinners that confess and repent just as the thief on the cross next to Jesus go to be with God the split second after death!!

And yet, Jesus Christ who didn't sin didn't go to His Father until after His resurrection.

THINK!!silly tard!!! JESUS HAD NOT FINISHED HIS WORK ON EARTH,JESUS STAYED ON EARTH ANOTHER 40 DAYS and over 500 people saw him alive and well!!!

 

[The Irish Ram]

No interpretation needed! Trust the Holyspirit TO GUIDE BELIEVERS INTO ALL TRUTH! The Bible interprets it's sself.

I wish I had a nickel for everybody I have met who claims he has The Holy Spirit and spouts the worst kind of heresies imaginable. Saying you have the Spirit doesn't make it so. In fact, I am preaching on this very thing next Sunday, and on how we know when someone has the Spirit.

The spiritually minded are not carnally minded, or not worldly minded, if you prefer. See 1 Corinthians 2 and 3.

Getting back to the OP, I would like for him to show us what he has before the argument starts.

Make sure of your lesson before you teach it. Teachers and preachers are held to a different standard by God.

The spiritually minded can also be and act as carnally as anyone else, depending on which spirit they are relying on at the time. We are made in our Father's image. We are a triune. We have a spirit, a soul and a flesh that likes to act out in spite of the addition of a portion of the Holy Spirit that God will supply if we ask. We can even force the Holy Spirit to containment under our "free will." It doesn't leave, but it ceases to function while we are into "self".
King David is a perfect example. Certainly spiritually minded to the point of being called the apple of God's eye. And yet was lead by his own spirit and flesh to lust and murder. Asking for and receiving the Holy Spirit does not mean we always give it the free reign we should.

When we do we act like this:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; ...

When we don't we end up praying this, like David did:

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

As for our subsequent destinations, people that accept Christ's offer of dying for our sins in our place, do indeed step right out of our clay suit at our last breath and enter Heaven instantaneously.

When Christ died on the cross He gained the key to the gate of death. Prior to that, those who died in God but had no one yet to remove their sins, were taken to a place called Paradise or Abraham's Bosom, to wait for Christ to 1. pay their debt and 2. come and retrieve them.
And He did. He brought them back to earth with Him for 40 days, and then to Heaven with Him. There is no longer a need for a Paradise waiting room. Christ defeated death. If we are in Christ, we go straight up to Him now:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be ...
absent from the body and present with the Lord. ...

The counter place to Paradise, which was within shouting distance of Paradise, is Hades, that continues to be filled with those who die/have died and did not accept God or Christ. They are waiting for their day in court at the White Throne Judgment so they can plead their case.

Here is a description of their waiting room:

.......and the rich man also died and (his body)> was buried. "In Hades (his soul)> he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'…

Christ emptied only one of those 2 locations. Hades remains to this day and will until the White Throne Judgment.


One of Christ's reward for the job He did on the cross is eternity with the brothers and sisters He suffered to save. Our eternal salvaged souls are the reward He got for dying in our place. And when He comes back here, His reward is coming with Him.
He, in His reconditioned clay body, and we, reunited with ours.

Jesus is our reward from a Father who loves us. We are Jesus' reward from a Father who loves Him. It's great how God worked that out.



Die in Christ and go straight up. Live like you are rewarded and a reward.

 

[Againsheila]

I base all my beliefs on God's Word...The Bible.

What do you base your beliefs on sir?

Faith.

I'm not a sir, madame.

How do you know what happens when you die? You base it on a book? On faith? On ... the hokey pokey?

What is your faith based on ma'am?

Your feelings?

My faith is based on Scripture, aka God's Word, aka The Bible.

The Bible is selective. It was based on a convention in 325 AD. The people there decided what went into the Bible and what didn't. I base my faith on my faith. The Bible was inspired by God, but written by man and is therefor fail able. They left out books such as the Book of Judas, the Book of Mary and several books about Jesus's early life. I'm still learning about the history of the Bible an of Jesus's life so my faith, is based on my interpretations and what I feel inside. You can put your faith on a book that was put together by men 325 years after Jesus died who wanted to control a religion (The Catholic Faith) that had little to do with Jesus and everything to do with control over the masses, but basically, there is nothing more backing up your faith than there is backing up my faith.

P.S. Yes, I consider myself a Christian. I don't think Jesus wanted his followers to be controlled by leadership such as the Vatican and people like Fred Phelps.

 

[koshergrl]

You are falsely assuming paradise and heaven are the same place. You'd know that if you read through the thread.

Christ told Mary after His resurrection that he had not yet ascended to heaven. Which means He would be lying of paradise was the same place.

There is a place between death and resurrection where the spirits of the dead dwell awaiting for their resurrection. This is the place Christ would meet the Thief. This is where Christ preached to the dead.

No, Jesus said that he had not yet ascended to the Father which does not mean that he had not yet entered the kingdom of heaven, the realm of eternal life, which he must have or else he wouldn't have been standing there talking to her after being killed.

....And as the first fruits of the dead, every time Jesus taught before he was killed he was preaching to the dead who were awaiting resurrection in the tomb of false religion.

If one had to wait until they were physically dead before they entered the kingdom of heaven how is it that Jesus told the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven ahead of the them?

The resurrection is not about the resumption of a former existence, it is entry into a new existence.

If a person does not ascend into heaven while they still have a physical body, how could they possibly do it without one?

No one can repent from the grave.

ROFLMAO!!! Why post such ignorance??? sinners that confess and repent just as the thief on the cross next to Jesus go to be with God the split second after death!!

Bingo.

"And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise."

 

[Againsheila]

No, Jesus said that he had not yet ascended to the Father which does not mean that he had not yet entered the kingdom of heaven, the realm of eternal life, which he must have or else he wouldn't have been standing there talking to her after being killed.

....And as the first fruits of the dead, every time Jesus taught before he was killed he was preaching to the dead who were awaiting resurrection in the tomb of false religion.

If one had to wait until they were physically dead before they entered the kingdom of heaven how is it that Jesus told the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven ahead of the them?

The resurrection is not about the resumption of a former existence, it is entry into a new existence.

If a person does not ascend into heaven while they still have a physical body, how could they possibly do it without one?

No one can repent from the grave.

ROFLMAO!!! Why post such ignorance??? sinners that confess and repent just as the thief on the cross next to Jesus go to be with God the split second after death!!

Bingo.

"And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise."

Because you just negged me for what I said, and refuse to accept messages, I'll tell you on the board, read up on The First Council of Nicaea. I've read several books, including the Bible. What I have not read is anything put out by The Atheist League. I'm a Christian, I was raised a Christian and I have defended Christians and will continue to defend them, what I will not defend are people like you who think because you read it in the Bible, it must be completely true with no propaganda at all. Again, read up on The First Council of Nicacea. What, you think the Bible just dropped out of thin air?

And to show how much better I am at being a Christan than you are, I won't even neg you back. Go with God, and I hope you learn something before you meet him face to face.

God Bless,
Sheila

 

[MaxGrit]

The Bible is selective. It was based on a convention in 325 AD. The people there decided what went into the Bible and what didn't.

I base my faith on my faith. The Bible was inspired by God, but written by man and is therefor fail able. They left out books such as the Book of Judas, the Book of Mary and several books about Jesus's early life.

I'm still learning about the history of the Bible an of Jesus's life so my faith, is based on my interpretations and what I feel inside. You can put your faith on a book that was put together by men 325 years after Jesus died who wanted to control a religion (The Catholic Faith) that had little to do with Jesus and everything to do with control over the masses, but basically, there is nothing more backing up your faith than there is backing up my faith.

Where did you get this junk information?

It's OK that you believe the Bible is not inerrant. However, your reasons for that belief should be based on in-depth knowledge of the issue.

"Between knowing nothing and knowing a great deal there is something which is very dangerous. That is knowing a little. Knowing just enough to be dangerous.

The prophet Hosea reserved some of his most scathing language for those who failed at the point of knowledge. It was not that they had no knowledge; it was not that they were completely ignorant. It was that they knew just enough to be dangerous. 'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. . . You shall stumble by day and by night.'

When we know just a little about the Christian faith, we know only enough to be dangerous. When we do not take the time to understand it in depth, we ourselves are the first victims of our lack of knowledge."


A good place to start your research is christian-history.org

To build a good foundation of knowledge, buy and read the book, "Everyone is a Theologian" by RC Sproul.

 

[Againsheila]

The Bible is selective. It was based on a convention in 325 AD. The people there decided what went into the Bible and what didn't.

I base my faith on my faith. The Bible was inspired by God, but written by man and is therefor fail able. They left out books such as the Book of Judas, the Book of Mary and several books about Jesus's early life.

I'm still learning about the history of the Bible an of Jesus's life so my faith, is based on my interpretations and what I feel inside. You can put your faith on a book that was put together by men 325 years after Jesus died who wanted to control a religion (The Catholic Faith) that had little to do with Jesus and everything to do with control over the masses, but basically, there is nothing more backing up your faith than there is backing up my faith.

Where did you get this junk information?

"Between knowing nothing and knowing a great deal there is something which is very dangerous. That is knowing a little. Knowing just enough to be dangerous.

The prophet Hosea reserved some of his most scathing language for those who failed at the point of knowledge. It was not that they had no knowledge; it was not that they were completely ignorant. It was that they knew just enough to be dangerous. 'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. . . You shall stumble by day and by night.'

When we know just a little about the Christian faith, we know only enough to be dangerous. When we do not take the time to understand it in depth, we ourselves are the first victims of our lack of knowledge."


A good place to start your research is christian-history.org

The Council of Nicaea (Nicea) and the Bible

 

[MaxGrit]

Ask yourself:

Does certain scriptures inherently have authority because it is the inspired word of God?

Or did man, in the Council of Nicaea, bestow authority on certain scriptures that inherently have no authority?

 

[GISMYS]

Who really thinks God would not cause the Council of Nicaea to choose only His inspired books of Scripture to be in the Holybible?

 

[MaxGrit]

The Bible was written by people, inspired by God, who wrote about how they experienced God. Occasionally, God chooses to speak using the active voice, influencing the writer through direct inspiration. It follows that the Bible definitely contains the word of God, and also the word of men writing about their experiences with the divine.

Infallible means that the Bible can't fail in its purpose, whatever purpose God wills for it. True.

Inerrant means there is no factual errors, errors in general, scientific errors, historical errors, etc. in the Bible. Not true.

Biblical inerrancy is highly implausible with information that comes from the field of computer aided Biblical textual criticism, as well as information from new archeological discoveries.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Shelia, the men gathered at Nicaea didn't sit down and write the book. They asked the Holy Spirit which works to include in a book.
Christ gave the Torah it's validity by calling it the word of God. More specifically, every word in it is from God. That is how trustworthy the OT is. The New Testament is equally trustworthy:

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..

 

[hobelim]

Who really thinks God would not cause the Council of Nicaea to choose only His inspired books of Scripture to be in the Holybible?

Ugh.

Jesus telling his disciples, who all argued about who was going to be the greatest, that they had the authority to loose and bind as they see fit was done for the same reason that Judas was put in charge of the money purse.

it was a test specifically designed to target their weakness.

"He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who lifts the sword to kill is bound by the sword to be killed."

By the time of the council of Nicaea no one understood the hidden meaning of the words and subjects about which they had become so dogmatic. They understood neither scripture or the power of God, neither did they understand Jesus or the words from God that he spoke and from the depths of that confusion and arrogance the antichrist was conjured by superstitious people who knew nothing and cared less about Jewish thought, belief or literary expressions.

And no, God made no mistakes, people like you have in thinking you could perjure yourself in the name of God with impunity.