Italian and European economy:actual situation

[Alcantara]

I know the sins of the Italians: they are serious.Because of the euro, Italian debt's interest rates from 1999 to 2009 were exceptionally low but the Italian government did not make adequate riforme.Merkel is not guilty: Italians vote for populist politicians! Nation states are outdated, in my opinion.

 

[Kimura]

Dear friends,in Italy there's a strange paradox:some deregulations were made by progressist cabinets,for example by Amato cabinet or Prodi cabinet and they were not made by conservator cabinets(Berlusconi cabinet,for example,that was a populist government).This is very different than Spain or France and more similar to Chile.

My family is from Vicenza, Italy.

Italy should tell the ECB to **** off if need be. The austerity being proposed will destroy the Italian economy. In my opinion, this 'European Project' is an utter ******* disaster. It seems like the ultimate goal is political union, because these technocrats in Brussels seem obsessed with a political union on the Continent.

Italy should go back on the Lira which would vastly improve its situation. They need an exit strategy. The Italian government could announce it would begin taxing in the lira exclusively, and that the state would make payments in the reintroduced lira. Also, the Italian government would have to proclaim a 'when and if' policy for Euro debt with no payment plans set in stone. This could get the ball rolling just off the top of my head.

I disagree, it is not euro the guilt.In Italy the problems are much older than euro: corruption, public debt, bad public administration,populist governments as Berlusconi.The lira was the weakest value in Europe and would not be a solution:Certainly, the excessive austerity is wrong but the euro gave advantages to Italian economy.

The Euro is the problem, because Italy has to operate under fixed budget constraints (austerity), very similar to a pseudo-gold standard in a way. The proposed tax increases and austerity will contract GDP. If Italy was on the lira, they wouldn't need to operate under a fixed budget constraint and Italian exports would increase significantly. If the ECB adopted a legitimate stimulus plan, I would have such a problem with them, but the German's are trying to act cute and it will have dire consequences.

What possible advantages? A common market? Countries can sign trade agreements without being part of the EU or adopting the EU.

I do agree Italy has a corruption and organized crime problem, particularly in the south of the country.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Euro is the problem, because Italy has to operate under fixed budget constraints (austerity),.

actually dear, the Euro is Europes salvation. It prevents them printing money and pretending they have earned it. It prevents the libturds from looking for that free lunch that Milton Friedman warned us about.
THere are no budget constraints except the goods one: you have to learn to live within your means just like every family in the world must.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the euro gave advantages to Italian economy.

yes indeed, it prevents corrupt libturd politicians from printing money and wasting it! If they want to spend money they must tax people who will then throw them out of office.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Italy should go back on the Lira which would vastly improve its situation. .

too stupid of course, it would just allow corrupt politicians to print money at will and waste it creating bubbles that distort and slow down an economy and eventually burst.

As a liberal you lack the IQ for this subject it seems very clear.

 

[Kimura]

Italy should go back on the Lira which would vastly improve its situation. .

too stupid of course, it would just allow corrupt politicians to print money at will and waste it creating bubbles that distort and slow down an economy and eventually burst.

As a liberal you lack the IQ for this subject it seems very clear.

Corruption will occur in Italy regardless of the social unit of account. And bubbles have nothing to do with whether the Euro or Lira is the social unit of account.

I find it amusing you continuously insult people even though you can barely string together sentences in a coherent fashion. Stay classy....

 

[Alcantara]

My family is from Vicenza, Italy.

Italy should tell the ECB to **** off if need be. The austerity being proposed will destroy the Italian economy. In my opinion, this 'European Project' is an utter ******* disaster. It seems like the ultimate goal is political union, because these technocrats in Brussels seem obsessed with a political union on the Continent.

Italy should go back on the Lira which would vastly improve its situation. They need an exit strategy. The Italian government could announce it would begin taxing in the lira exclusively, and that the state would make payments in the reintroduced lira. Also, the Italian government would have to proclaim a 'when and if' policy for Euro debt with no payment plans set in stone. This could get the ball rolling just off the top of my head.

I disagree, it is not euro the guilt.In Italy the problems are much older than euro: corruption, public debt, bad public administration,populist governments as Berlusconi.The lira was the weakest value in Europe and would not be a solution:Certainly, the excessive austerity is wrong but the euro gave advantages to Italian economy.

The Euro is the problem, because Italy has to operate under fixed budget constraints (austerity), very similar to a pseudo-gold standard in a way. The proposed tax increases and austerity will contract GDP. If Italy was on the lira, they wouldn't need to operate under a fixed budget constraint and Italian exports would increase significantly. If the ECB adopted a legitimate stimulus plan, I would have such a problem with them, but the German's are trying to act cute and it will have dire consequences.

What possible advantages? A common market? Countries can sign trade agreements without being part of the EU or adopting the EU.

I do agree Italy has a corruption and organized crime problem, particularly in the south of the country.

Italian economy's problems are oldest than euro.Italy is old country,there are too many differents between North and South.In a restricted eurozone,Northern Italy could have the euro but Souther Italy could be an other Greece or an other Portugal.
Excuse me for my bad English but I believe that a break-up of eurozone could produce the end of Italy and the beginning of two States(and surely Southern Italy could return to lira).

 

[Alcantara]

The Euro is the problem, because Italy has to operate under fixed budget constraints (austerity),.

actually dear, the Euro is Europes salvation. It prevents them printing money and pretending they have earned it. It prevents the libturds from looking for that free lunch that Milton Friedman warned us about.
THere are no budget constraints except the goods one: you have to learn to live within your means just like every family in the world must.

Italy is not Austria or Holland:its polical class could be press money(with lira) and produce a stronge inflation,as in 70-80's.
Todat election haven't a winner,for example.
I Know my country:eurozone isn't a perfect place but lira is a nightmare for Italy...

 

[Rshermr]

Italy should go back on the Lira which would vastly improve its situation. .

too stupid of course, it would just allow corrupt politicians to print money at will and waste it creating bubbles that distort and slow down an economy and eventually burst.

As a liberal you lack the IQ for this subject it seems very clear.

Corruption will occur in Italy regardless of the social unit of account. And bubbles have nothing to do with whether the Euro or Lira is the social unit of account.

I find it amusing you continuously insult people even though you can barely string together sentences in a coherent fashion. Stay classy....

Few take ed seriously. He is a conservative tool with a total lack of economic understanding. He is also an admitted libertarian, unable to name a country where libertarianism has been successful. Because none exist. Not really his fault. Just a form of mental illness.
As such, it is simplest not to bother conversing with him. It is a total waste of time, since ed is completely incapable of understanding the concept of conversation.

 

[Rshermr]

The Euro is the problem, because Italy has to operate under fixed budget constraints (austerity),.

actually dear, the Euro is Europes salvation. It prevents them printing money and pretending they have earned it. It prevents the libturds from looking for that free lunch that Milton Friedman warned us about.
THere are no budget constraints except the goods one: you have to learn to live within your means just like every family in the world must.

Italy is not Austria or Holland:its polical class could be press money(with lira) and produce a stronge inflation,as in 70-80's.
Todat election haven't a winner,for example.
I Know my country:eurozone isn't a perfect place but lira is a nightmare for Italy...

Again, trying to converse with ed is an exercise in futility. As a libertarian, he is simply following a futile train of thought that would allow him to show why libertarian makes any sense at all. He can not understand that there are no libertarian economies successfully working in this world, and I expect him to try intergalactic comparisons soon. Because, you see, in ed's tiny mind, he is certain that no one could possibly prove that libertarianism does not work there.

However, ed does serve the purpose of providing humor. Stupid humor. But humor, none the less.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

He can not understand that there are no libertarian economies successfully working in this world,

of course there are no pure libertarian, socialist, communist, or capitalist economies at all because all economies are mixed so the statement is 100% meaningless.

The pea brained liberal simply lacks the IQ to understand that? Not surprising from a guy who lies often, finds the Walther Duranty
NYTimes objective, and pretends the Fed was not a huge factor in the Reagan years.

 

[Alcantara]

actually dear, the Euro is Europes salvation. It prevents them printing money and pretending they have earned it. It prevents the libturds from looking for that free lunch that Milton Friedman warned us about.
THere are no budget constraints except the goods one: you have to learn to live within your means just like every family in the world must.

Italy is not Austria or Holland:its polical class could be press money(with lira) and produce a stronge inflation,as in 70-80's.
Todat election haven't a winner,for example.
I Know my country:eurozone isn't a perfect place but lira is a nightmare for Italy...

Again, trying to converse with ed is an exercise in futility. As a libertarian, he is simply following a futile train of thought that would allow him to show why libertarian makes any sense at all. He can not understand that there are no libertarian economies successfully working in this world, and I expect him to try intergalactic comparisons soon. Because, you see, in ed's tiny mind, he is certain that no one could possibly prove that libertarianism does not work there.

However, ed does serve the purpose of providing humor. Stupid humor. But humor, none the less.

In my opinion,without euro Italy could be an other Argentina.In 90's italian governments(almost from 1992 to 1997)decided to fight enormous public debt because of decision to enter in the eurozone.Without this difficult enterprise,now Italy probabily wouldn't exist as an United State.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Italy is not Austria or Holland:its polical class could be press money(with lira) and produce a stronge inflation,as in 70-80's.
Todat election haven't a winner,for example.
I Know my country:eurozone isn't a perfect place but lira is a nightmare for Italy...

Again, trying to converse with ed is an exercise in futility. As a libertarian, he is simply following a futile train of thought that would allow him to show why libertarian makes any sense at all. He can not understand that there are no libertarian economies successfully working in this world, and I expect him to try intergalactic comparisons soon. Because, you see, in ed's tiny mind, he is certain that no one could possibly prove that libertarianism does not work there.

However, ed does serve the purpose of providing humor. Stupid humor. But humor, none the less.

In my opinion,without euro Italy could be an other Argentina.In 90's italian governments(almost from 1992 to 1997)decided to fight enormous public debt because of decision to enter in the eurozone.Without this difficult enterprise,now Italy probabily wouldn't exist as an United State.

yes you are right!!! Just as Zimbabwe must not be allowed to print money, Italy must not be allowed to print money!! The temptation to always print money is just too great!! There is nothing good in inflation. It just disrupts and slows an economy. Usually a liberal will lack the IQ to understand this.

 

[Rshermr]

He can not understand that there are no libertarian economies successfully working in this world,

of course there are no pure libertarian, socialist, communist, or capitalist economies at all because all economies are mixed so the statement is 100% meaningless.

The pea brained liberal simply lacks the IQ to understand that? Not surprising from a guy who lies often, finds the Walther Duranty
NYTimes objective, and pretends the Fed was not a huge factor in the Reagan years.

There are successful socialist capitalist economies. Numerous. But there are no successful libertarian capitalist societies. None. Regardless of how hard you try to twist into a pretzel. In fact, it is so bad that lebertarians are now trying to build islands that will be libertarian. But you are a con tool, so rational discussion of the subject is not possible.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There are successful socialist capitalist economies. Numerous.

its like debating a child!! Why then dear be so afraid to name your best example. What does your fear tell you about your IQ and character??

 

[Rshermr]

There are successful socialist capitalist economies. Numerous.

its like debating a child!! Why then dear be so afraid to name your best example. What does your fear tell you about your IQ and character??

Go look for yourself, ed, me boy. Simple to find.
Now, the question that you are avoiding: Either show us the successful libertarian economy, or at least a primarily libertarian economy, that is doing well. Seems you are incapable, dipshit. Go to the web, and you will find all kinds of libertarians trying to name one. And you know what, dipshit, they can not. Now, why do I call you a dipshit. Well, ed me boy, because you are backing a looser and posting dogma. Which makes you, quite obviously, a dipshit. Nothing personal. It is simply obvious. No one wants to hear from a dipshit who backs a looser.

 

[Alcantara]

Again, trying to converse with ed is an exercise in futility. As a libertarian, he is simply following a futile train of thought that would allow him to show why libertarian makes any sense at all. He can not understand that there are no libertarian economies successfully working in this world, and I expect him to try intergalactic comparisons soon. Because, you see, in ed's tiny mind, he is certain that no one could possibly prove that libertarianism does not work there.

However, ed does serve the purpose of providing humor. Stupid humor. But humor, none the less.

In my opinion,without euro Italy could be an other Argentina.In 90's italian governments(almost from 1992 to 1997)decided to fight enormous public debt because of decision to enter in the eurozone.Without this difficult enterprise,now Italy probabily wouldn't exist as an United State.

yes you are right!!! Just as Zimbabwe must not be allowed to print money, Italy must not be allowed to print money!! The temptation to always print money is just too great!! There is nothing good in inflation. It just disrupts and slows an economy. Usually a liberal will lack the IQ to understand this.

Contrary to some opinions,the economic decline of Italy began in early 90's,when the differential of economic growth with its european partners began to grow.
However,during 80's(last century,ovviously), the big inflation and the public's debt's growth were terrible evils of Italian economy but the country grew,ovviously not as in 60's.
In 1992 Italy had a terrible cryse:its value,the lira,has attacked by international speculation and it was a strong recession but, because of some politics,Italian economy began its healing and in the second part of that decennium also Southern Italy,poorest than North,grew in a convergence for the Italy's enter in the Eurozone.
However,aulthough lower interest rates than in 90's because of new value-the euro-Italian governments didn't make necessary reforms and Italian public debt grew in the last decennium, so in 2011 Italy became involved in the sovereign debt's crysis.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In my opinion,without euro Italy could be an other Argentina.In 90's italian governments(almost from 1992 to 1997)decided to fight enormous public debt because of decision to enter in the eurozone.Without this difficult enterprise,now Italy probabily wouldn't exist as an United State.

yes you are right!!! Just as Zimbabwe must not be allowed to print money, Italy must not be allowed to print money!! The temptation to always print money is just too great!! There is nothing good in inflation. It just disrupts and slows an economy. Usually a liberal will lack the IQ to understand this.

Contrary to some opinions,the economic decline of Italy began in early 90's,when the differential of economic growth with its european partners began to grow.
However,during 80's(last century,ovviously), the big inflation and the public's debt's growth were terrible evils of Italian economy but the country grew,ovviously not as in 60's.
In 1992 Italy had a terrible cryse:its value,the lira,has attacked by international speculation and it was a strong recession but, because of some politics,Italian economy began its healing and in the second part of that decennium also Southern Italy,poorest than North,grew in a convergence for the Italy's enter in the Eurozone.
However,aulthough lower interest rates than in 90's because of new value-the euro-Italian governments didn't make necessary reforms and Italian public debt grew in the last decennium, so in 2011 Italy became involved in the sovereign debt's crysis.

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

 

[Alcantara]

yes you are right!!! Just as Zimbabwe must not be allowed to print money, Italy must not be allowed to print money!! The temptation to always print money is just too great!! There is nothing good in inflation. It just disrupts and slows an economy. Usually a liberal will lack the IQ to understand this.

Contrary to some opinions,the economic decline of Italy began in early 90's,when the differential of economic growth with its european partners began to grow.
However,during 80's(last century,ovviously), the big inflation and the public's debt's growth were terrible evils of Italian economy but the country grew,ovviously not as in 60's.
In 1992 Italy had a terrible cryse:its value,the lira,has attacked by international speculation and it was a strong recession but, because of some politics,Italian economy began its healing and in the second part of that decennium also Southern Italy,poorest than North,grew in a convergence for the Italy's enter in the Eurozone.
However,aulthough lower interest rates than in 90's because of new value-the euro-Italian governments didn't make necessary reforms and Italian public debt grew in the last decennium, so in 2011 Italy became involved in the sovereign debt's crysis.

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

After almost a week from Italian election,political situation results very confused and I'm very worried.Because of this uncertainty,financial situation is getting worse.
In fact,during this week rendering's differential between Italian Bond and Deucht Bund drove up to 330/340 points,aulthough it was very far forme the 2011's level.
Now, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano(I remember that his powers are similar to Israelian President, not to French or American President!)could decide to charge Pier Luigi Bersani(center-left coalition's leader)to make a new government but the composition of a possible cabinet remains very uncertain, because of the strong opposition by Beppe Grillo, Five Stars Moviment's spokesman.
Maybe, Italian Republic's President charge on other man but the chanches to get a majority in the Senat, the major house, are now too weak.
However,Italy is not a banana's republicften the sense of responsability won in my country.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Contrary to some opinions,the economic decline of Italy began in early 90's,when the differential of economic growth with its european partners began to grow.
However,during 80's(last century,ovviously), the big inflation and the public's debt's growth were terrible evils of Italian economy but the country grew,ovviously not as in 60's.
In 1992 Italy had a terrible cryse:its value,the lira,has attacked by international speculation and it was a strong recession but, because of some politics,Italian economy began its healing and in the second part of that decennium also Southern Italy,poorest than North,grew in a convergence for the Italy's enter in the Eurozone.
However,aulthough lower interest rates than in 90's because of new value-the euro-Italian governments didn't make necessary reforms and Italian public debt grew in the last decennium, so in 2011 Italy became involved in the sovereign debt's crysis.

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

After almost a week from Italian election,political situation results very confused and I'm very worried.Because of this uncertainty,financial situation is getting worse.
In fact,during this week rendering's differential between Italian Bond and Deucht Bund drove up to 330/340 points,aulthough it was very far forme the 2011's level.
Now, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano(I remember that his powers are similar to Israelian President, not to French or American President!)could decide to charge Pier Luigi Bersani(center-left coalition's leader)to make a new government but the composition of a possible cabinet remains very uncertain, because of the strong opposition by Beppe Grillo, Five Stars Moviment's spokesman.
Maybe, Italian Republic's President charge on other man but the chanches to get a majority in the Senat, the major house, are now too weak.
However,Italy is not a banana's republicften the sense of responsability won in my country.

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?