Zone1 It looks like Protestants have their own issues vis a vis "bowing down to idols"

[Foxfyre]

well, the problem with that or one of them is that his congregation who send him money.. a lot of them probably can't afford to eat out every Sunday, while he can do whatever he sets his mind to doing. I just don't like that. Maybe it is capitalistic and etc... but .. and also, I have not heard of which charities he gives to. Maybe I'd like him better if I knew more about that?

Priests take a vow of poverty

of course, who knows what goes on in the modern Church. Again, the last valid pope was Pius XII

Still, I'm sure most priests take thesame vow.. poverty, chastity and obedience

Protestants are not required to take a vow of poverty as no Protestant Church offers cradle to grave housing, salary, etc. for anybody. Protestants believe their is no shame in poverty except among those who exploit it for their own purposes and there is no shame in wealth honorably gained and believe that is supported by the scriptures.

Accurate religious teachings, however, do inform us it is wrong to covet or resent those who have more than we do and it teaches us to judge only the actions but not the heart and soul of others. And he personally gets none of the money sent as contributions to his ministry by his own choice. Lakewood Church does a lot of pairing with worthy organizations such as World Vision and does a lot of hands on ministry as well.

I'm not into Osteen's prosperity gospel a great deal, but I do not see any harm in it and his operation seems pretty scandal free to be as large as it is. He gets 45,000 people to church every week. That alone is amazing.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The main point is that protestants scream bloody murder over "how much money the Vatican has"

as a way of rejecting Christ's Church

and then they support people like Olsteen

PLEASE

Vatican gives 10 million to charity a year.
Osteen church gives 60 million to charity a year.

I wonder how Jesus feels about you berating one of His own. I'm reminded of what Jesus said to the disciples when they asked a question about John. "What's it to you?" was His response.

John 21:23​

Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

You need to give Christ His judgment robe back...

 

[1miseryindex]

I'm not into Osteen's prosperity gospel a great deal, but I do not see any harm in it and his operation seems pretty scandal free to be as large as it is. He gets 45,000 people to church every week. That alone is amazing.

This is a big problem in Christianity:

thinking that our own thoughts are God's thoughts. But no, in Isaiah God says: My thoughts are not your thoughts; your ways are not my ways"

So how do we do things according to God's true ways? All we have is the CHURCH he established on Earth. And that Church is very messed up so few seem to realize it is indeed His Church. Even people inside the Catholic Church are confused about things, although the more I myself learn, the less confused I am. God established ONE Church, not the tens of thousands we see in the world today. That is not unity. In the Gospel of John, right b4 the Crucifixion, Jesus prayed that His people would be ONE. That prayer seems to have gone unanswered, although maybe not because it was said by Jesus and how can His prayer not be answered? The answer to this Rubik's Cube is that there is still ONE Church and people either know or highly suspect which Church that is. If they refuse to listen... well, they are not on the Narrow Path Jesus spoke of. He warned us that FEW find it. Mt 7, Lk 13

 

[1miseryindex]

Vatican gives 10 million to charity a year.
Osteen church gives 60 million to charity a year.

I wonder how Jesus feels about you berating one of His own. I'm reminded of what Jesus said to the disciples when they asked a question about John. "What's it to you?" was His response.

John 21:23​

Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

You need to give Christ His judgment robe back...

does Olsteen give millions to LGBT causes?

LOL

not sufficient info, as per usual, in your post

And there are many OTHER things Olsteen does wrong also. He preaches heresy, according to my POV. Doesn't he basically preach that if you are poor, you must have offended God in some HUGE way or another? I guess I could be wrong.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is a big problem in Christianity:

thinking that our own thoughts are God's thoughts. But no, in Isaiah God says: My thoughts are not your thoughts; your ways are not my ways"

So how do we do things according to God's true ways? All we have is the CHURCH he established on Earth. And that Church is very messed up so few seem to realize it is indeed His Church. Even people inside the Catholic Church are confused about things, although the more I myself learn, the less confused I am. God established ONE Church, not the tens of thousands we see in the world today. That is not unity. In the Gospel of John, right b4 the Crucifixion, Jesus prayed that His people would be ONE. That prayer seems to have gone unanswered, although maybe not because it was said by Jesus and how can His prayer not be answered? The answer to this Rubik's Cube is that there is still ONE Church and people either know or highly suspect which Church that is. If they refuse to listen... well, they are not on the Narrow Path Jesus spoke of. He warned us that FEW find it. Mt 7, Lk 13

We do not agree on what the 'one' church is. To you it is a particular denomination. But I read from the scriptures that all believers are the Church whether or not they are affiliated with any particular denomination. And because all humankind is imperfect, all that imperfection exists within the Church and therefore the Church will be imperfect. But despite all its imperfections and sins, it remains the most positive and beneficial force the world has ever known. Should the Rapture come and zap it off what we know as Planet Earth, those remaining will not like what is left behind.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I guess I could be wrong.

As usual...

 

[1miseryindex]

We do not agree on what the 'one' church is. To you it is a particular denomination. But I read from the scriptures that all believers are the Church whether or not they are affiliated with any particular denomination.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination. All the other alleged churches ARE. They were created by mere man, while the Catholic Church was established by Christ Himself.

Yes, the Church is full of imperfect people, and so is every other earthly institution. But Catholics commit murder FAR less often than non-Catholics and there are other stats I could mention.

All Christian religions came from the Catholic one

 

[Foxfyre]

The Catholic Church is not a denomination. All the other alleged churches ARE. They were created by mere man, while the Catholic Church was established by Christ Himself.

Yes, the Church is full of imperfect people, and so is every other earthly institution. But Catholics commit murder FAR less often than non-Catholics and there are other stats I could mention.

All Christian religions came from the Catholic one

All Christians belong to the holy catholic (little 'c') church. I will go with the common and recognized definition of denomination as including the Roman Catholic Church. I respect your beliefs and hope they bless you. I do not share them when it comes to what the 'one real church' is but I do not require that you see it as I see it.

 

[1miseryindex]

All Christians belong to the holy catholic (little 'c') church. I will go with the common and recognized definition of denomination as including the Roman Catholic Church. I respect your beliefs and hope they bless you. I do not share them when it comes to what the 'one real church' is but I do not require that you see it as I see it.

well, that's big of you. It wouldn't do you any good to require that of me anyhow, eh?

LOL

But truth does not change. Either the CC is the true Church or it isn't. I guess it doesn't concern you that you could be egregiously wrong on this? I mean, your eternal salvation requires you to be in the Church CHRIST founded. That seems like a no-brainer.

If that were not so, then it was NOT at all necessary for Christ to BUILD a Church at all!

And yet He did if you accept Mt 16:18 where Jesus says "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it."

Jesus does NOTHING that is frivolous or optional when it comes to our eternal salvation, the most important thing in life. He built His Church as He did because the Church provides the means ofsalvation (despite being full of sinners.. OMG ).

I know what it is like to be in the Catholic Church and I know what it was like OUTSIDE... I can't put into words

the difference

(except that here and there, I try)...

 

[Foxfyre]

well, that's big of you. It wouldn't do you any good to require that of me anyhow, eh?

LOL

But truth does not change. Either the CC is the true Church or it isn't. I guess it doesn't concern you that you could be egregiously wrong on this? I mean, your eternal salvation requires you to be in the Church CHRIST founded. That seems like a no-brainer.

If that were not so, then it was NOT at all necessary for Christ to BUILD a Church at all!

And yet He did if you accept Mt 16:18 where Jesus says "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it."

Jesus does NOTHING that is frivolous or optional when it comes to our eternal salvation, the most important thing in life. He built His Church as He did because the Church provides the means ofsalvation (despite being full of sinners.. OMG ).

I know what it is like to be in the Catholic Church and I know what it was like OUTSIDE... I can't put into words

the difference

(except that here and there, I try)...

Again I allow you your beliefs without judging you or criticizing you for them and I give thanks that you feel blessed by your belief. I know without any reservation whatsoever that I have a relationship with the Christ, the living God revealed to us when Jesus walked the Earth. For me that is what makes me a Christian and not belonging to a specific Christian group called a specific thing. My motive here is not to create doubts within you, but hopefully that it inspires others to understand that the Church is not a building or denomination or a set of catechisms or rules or specific doctrines or dogma though such give comfort and guidance for many. It is made up of all who accept salvation and eternal life in a living God revealed to us by Jesus of Nazareth, Immanuel, God with us.

 

[1miseryindex]

Again I allow you your beliefs without judging you or criticizing you for them and I give thanks that you feel blessed by your belief. I know without any reservation whatsoever that I have a relationship with the Christ, the living God revealed to us when Jesus walked the Earth. For me that is what makes me a Christian and not belonging to a specific Christian group called a specific thing. My motive here is not to create doubts within you, but hopefully that it inspires others to understand that the Church is not a building or denomination or a set of catechisms or rules or specific doctrines or dogma though such give comfort and guidance for many. It is made up of all who accept salvation and eternal life in a living God revealed to us by Jesus of Nazareth, Immanuel, God with us.

so says you. God has a different concept of what His Church is to be like

we had it until some 65 years ago and still have it to some extent.

the thing is

You can't just make up your own religion. Did you know Catholics live longer than Protestants? Maybe there is a reason for that that no one really knows... I don't know the reason except that unhealthy beliefs can cause your body to be unhealthy. In any case, so much for things we don't u/stand. The point is that God set up things the way He wanted and who are we humans to change them? Things changed drastically because of Luther and then went downhill every century since. Look at all the lawlessness around us just because people don't have that anchor the the True Church in their lives?

There is no fear of God anymore.. people just do whatever... and then we all throw up our exasperated hands and wonder WHY WHY??? why is the world so AWFUL... Why is we don't want our children outside much?

Well, all the mayhem in the world right now is because people are not doing things GOD's way.. they think they know what is best for themselves. . don't need HIS Church...

 

[ninja007]

I'll bet u say the same thing about rich Catholics, don't u?

the vaticans 15 billion.

 

[ninja007]

so says you. God has a different concept of what His Church is to be like

we had it until some 65 years ago and still have it to some extent.

the thing is

You can't just make up your own religion. Did you know Catholics live longer than Protestants? Maybe there is a reason for that that no one really knows... I don't know the reason except that unhealthy beliefs can cause your body to be unhealthy. In any case, so much for things we don't u/stand. The point is that God set up things the way He wanted and who are we humans to change them? Things changed drastically because of Luther and then went downhill every century since. Look at all the lawlessness around us just because people don't have that anchor the the True Church in their lives?

There is no fear of God anymore.. people just do whatever... and then we all throw up our exasperated hands and wonder WHY WHY??? why is the world so AWFUL... Why is we don't want our children outside much?

Well, all the mayhem in the world right now is because people are not doing things GOD's way.. they think they know what is best for themselves. . don't need HIS Church...

sadly, you'll find out soon enough that the rcc doesnt save you.. only the blood of Jesus- salvation is a free gift- cults all over the world try to earn their way to heaven.

 

[1miseryindex]

sadly, you'll find out soon enough that the rcc doesnt save you.. only the blood of Jesus- salvation is a free gift- cults all over the world try to earn their way to heaven.

why don't you read some of my posts before making ignorant statements like this?

You PRESUME so much!

you presume that no one can find the Blood of Christ in the Catholic Church, the One Church Christ Himself founded.

Wow... that's some presumption!

it's actually laughable

 

[The Irish Ram]

why don't you read some of my posts before making ignorant statements like this?

You PRESUME so much!

you presume that no one can find the Blood of Christ in the Catholic Church, the One Church Christ Himself founded.

Wow... that's some presumption!

it's actually laughable

You presume that protestant churches should be paupers. You go after our preachers and say nothing about the Catholic church hoarding their money. Osteen's church gives millions and millions more to charity that your "one true church.". So does Franklin Graham. So does Hagee, so does Prince, so does...
As far as Protestant ministers go, why wouldn't God want His preachers to be successful? He wasn't bothered with King David's wealth. Salomon lined his church in gold.

Gee, that could build a lot of low-income housing for poor people! And he'd still have money left to buy a nice car.

You are the disciples in this story:

Matthew 26: 6-13 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came to him with a jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor." Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.

Why are you bothering Joel Osteen and the other givers?