It is certainly true that those who support abortion are monsters...

[Dana7360]

Slavery was ended after a bloody Civil War that cost the lives of 600,000 Americans, and it might take something like that to end abortion. But abortion will end, that day is coming, because those on our side will never stop fighting until it ends.

No, abortion will never end. All you'll succeed in doing is leaving the law up to the states so states like mine will forever keep abortion safe and legal. The states that take rights and freedoms from women will cause a lot of innocent women to die unnecessary early deaths. You want to kill women whose pregnancies have gone wrong. Which is so far beyond sick I just don't have the words to describe my disgust for you and those like you.

In the early 90s an initiative was on the ballot for all citizens of my state to vote on. It's one of the three times the people of my state have had the opportunity to vote on the abortion issue.

That vote went the same way the other two votes went, choice won. That time the issue was no matter what a judge says, no matter what the congress in DC does, abortion stays legal and safe in my state. It passed with a healthy margin of over 60% voting for it.

So all you're going to do is create dead women and a very huge backlash against you and those like you who believe you have the right to take freedom, rights and life from women.

You don't have that right and you're going to see legislation that will prevent you people from turning women's bodies into political pawns for your political convenience.

By the way, abortion is at it's highest approval ratings right now in our nation. You people have always been in the minority on this so go ahead, tick off the majority. Just be prepared for the consequences of your extremely bad choices.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Slavery was ended after a bloody Civil War that cost the lives of 600,000 Americans, and it might take something like that to end abortion. But abortion will end, that day is coming, because those on our side will never stop fighting until it ends.

No, abortion will never end. All you'll succeed in doing is leaving the law up to the states so states like mine will forever keep abortion safe and legal. The states that take rights and freedoms from women will cause a lot of innocent women to die unnecessary early deaths. You want to kill women whose pregnancies have gone wrong. Which is so far beyond sick I just don't have the words to describe my disgust for you and those like you.

In the early 90s an initiative was on the ballot for all citizens of my state to vote on. It's one of the three times the people of my state have had the opportunity to vote on the abortion issue.

That vote went the same way the other two votes went, choice won. That time the issue was no matter what a judge says, no matter what the congress in DC does, abortion stays legal and safe in my state. It passed with a healthy margin of over 60% voting for it.

So all you're going to do is create dead women and a very huge backlash against you and those like you who believe you have the right to take freedom, rights and life from women.

You don't have that right and you're going to see legislation that will prevent you people from turning women's bodies into political pawns for your political convenience.

By the way, abortion is at it's highest approval ratings right now in our nation. You people have always been in the minority on this so go ahead, tick off the majority. Just be prepared for the consequences of your extremely bad choices.

The river of shit is getting deep in here, so I had to break these out.

 

[sakinago]

Permitting abortion is the state wiping people’s asses for them. People who, despite contraception being the cheapest, most available, and easier to use than anytime in history, still have unprotected sex and are shocked when participating in the act of reproduction produces a baby. And then they ask the government if it’s ok to take a mulligan on it. It’s undeniable human life that we turn our consciousness off too and say, “go ahead and scrape it out, shit happens.” We don’t say that when people get blitzed and then hop behind a wheel and kill someone. Just because you can’t physically see it, that makes it better? It’s letting people who should know better make stupid decisions and erasing the consequences of that decision for them.

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

It’s my business just like it’d be anyone’s business to say people should be able to choose to euthanize the low functioning mentally retarded or autistic. This isn’t an issue of people injecting themselves into others business, it’s an issue ending human life or not.

Again you are trying to equate the living with the unborn. They’re not the same and you saying they are doesn’t make it so.

Again you are stripping women of their right to self determination and control of very personal decisions affecting their lives, their families and their futures.

IT’S NOT YOUR DECISION. YOU HAVE NO VOICE HERE.

Again, you are trying to force your uneducated, unscientific worldview onto others. You want to be ignorant and believe the unborn aren't alive, you have the Constitutional right to do so, just as you have the right to believe the Earth is flat if that's your little red wagon. But you don't get to make the rest of us pretend that your oblivion to facts is worthy of respect.

I’m not asking for your respect. I’m asking that you stay out of decisions that are none of your business and that the government has no stake in.

A fetus has no rights or standing at law. The state has no stake in it rights to the life of that fetus. Only the mother has that right. Therefore the woman’s rights are the only ones that matter unless she herself decides to proceed with the pregnancy and the fetus is viable.

When my birth control failed and I had an unplanned pregnancy, it was at a very bad time in my life. My marriage was hanging by a thread, and I had just received an acceptable letter from a top universities in North America for their MBA program. The baby was due two weeks before classes started. I had the baby. The marriage ended when he was 2, and I never got that MBA.

That was my CHOICE.

Being pro-choice robs no one of their beliefs or their responsibilities. Being pro-choice is doing what you believe is right and letting others do the same.

Whether someone chooses to have a baby or an abortion it is none of YOUR business.

The government does have a stake. If governments main directive is to protect “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” as laid out in DOI, then science, then abortion falls under that directive if a fetus is human life. You can try to argue it isn’t really life or human life, that goes against science that’s been esablished long ago and has withstood since. You can argue things “ personhood”, which is a completely abstract term, without a true definition because it’s only vaguely applicable to fields like philosophy where they don’t even have an agreed upon definition. You can try to argue from the legal side that it’s settled law. That’s a silly argument since no law, not even the bill of rights, are considered settled law (or at least are no longer considered settled law until someone decides they don’t like the law anymore). Immigration law could be considered “settled law” by the same exact standards. Roe V Wade wasn’t even a case about whether or not a fetus is life, it was about it not being fair some states allowed it and others didn’t. RVW did admit a fetus did have a right to life after a certain point, that standard was plucked out of the sky by those very same judges without any scientific/medical reasoning. They also extended the 4th in a bizarre way that doesn’t make any sense, since while there’s HIPPA (added much later) medical information is only private and personal from select parties. So even if you believed a fetus is no different than a benign tumor, that wouldn’t fall under the 4th amendment to begin with since government does indeed collect that data, especially when you’re on Medicare or Medicaid, they know it all. Not to mention, your rights end when they infringe in others rights. You have a right to bear arms, you don’t have the right to murder someone. Roe V Wade almost entirely skipped over the main issue at hand which would’ve been, is a fetus life. Instead they said it’s not fair for states to ban it, even though that’s unconstitutional since if anything it’d be a state by state issue according to the 10th amendment since there is zero mention of anything of the sorts in the enumerated powers, especially with the terms they were using in the justification of it.

If there was someone who was determined to be brain dead, but doctors all agreed that they had 86% chance of making a full recovery in 7-8 months, which those chances increasing every month they survive, is it ok to pull the plug on that person?

I am not saying that pregnancies don’t happen at inoppertune times, or that kids are cheap or easy endevors. I am saying sex is not inconsequential, it has huge consequences. However, there are extremely easy, cheap, accessible, and highly effective ways to remove the largest consequence of sex, and leave the minor ones behind to reality TV drama.

 

[buttercup]

If there was someone who was determined to be brain dead, but doctors all agreed that they had 86% chance of making a full recovery in 7-8 months, which those chances increasing every month they survive, is it ok to pull the plug on that person?

Excellent question for the proaborts. The only thing I would say differently is that, unlike a person said to be brain-dead, by the time most abortions occur, the pre-born baby has brain activity, and like your example, it is continually increasing, as time goes on.

 

[Dana7360]

There was no such thing as abortions before Roe VS. Wade. Oddly enough, though, there were a hell of a lot, of D & C's!

That happened in my state until the people of my state had the opportunity to vote to make abortion legal in my state in the 1968 election.

It was the first of three times the people of my state were asked their opinion on the abortion issue through the vote. That first time as with the other two times, choice won.

Abortion became legal in my state over 3 years before Roe V. Wade was decided at the supreme court.

That's when the D&C procedures dramatically dropped in my state. For some mysterious reason.

Abortion can be made illegal again but that's not going to stop abortion from happening. Since abortion is at an all time high approval in our nation right now, the backlash on conservatives will be swift and hard.

Conservatives are going to have to take responsibility for forcing their views on our nation but as we all know, they will point fingers of blame at all of us who were right.

By law in my state abortion stays legal and safe. We will see a patchwork of laws throughout the nation. We will see the system that we women have set up to get women out of conservative states to states that keep abortion safe and legal. I've been donating to that system for years and I'm very proud of the work we women have been doing. The system will just get larger and more women will be funding it.

Women in conservative states will start dying due to pregnancies that went wrong. We will see women in those states being prosecuted and put in prison for having a miscarriage. Women will have to prove a miscarriage in those states and if they don't they will go to prison.

Yes that's what the conservatives want for America in the 21st century.

 

[Vandalshandle]

There was no such thing as abortions before Roe VS. Wade. Oddly enough, though, there were a hell of a lot, of D & C's!

What in the hell are you gabbling about? I assume you're trying to be clever in some fashion.

You might want to look up the medical definition of what a D & C is, before displaying your ignorance.

You might want to look up the abortion laws prior to Roe v Wade before displaying your ignorance.

There were many places in which abortions could be performed legally, and there was no need to "hide" it as you're trying to imply. Do medical records record the procedure as a dilation and curettage when that's the method used? Yes, they did and do, because it's necessary to be exactly correct and clear in medical records.. Were people using precise medical terminology as a way of disguising abortions prior to Roe v Wade? No, that's ridiculous.

Actually, you are obviously too young to know that D & C's were routinely performed so that the word "abortion" did not have to appear in the medical records. In short, Roe Vs Wade did nothing to change the fact that abortions had already been routinely done, Reversing R Vs W. would simply mean that more D & C's would again be performed.

 

[Lesh]

Arguing the pros and cons of abortion with anti-abortion freaks is a fruitless endeavor.

Choice is popular regardless of how the nutjobs feel.

What needs to be pointed out is that choice is under attack...in the Supreme Court and in EVERY state.

Don't think your state is safe. They will target your state next

 

[Synthaholic]

If you think abortion is wrong, don’t have an abortion. It’s that simple.

If you think killing a Jew is wrong, then don't kill a Jew. Otherwise, it's none of your business.

See how that works?

Except a Jew is already a living, breathing person, who has already been born.

An unborn child is just as much a person as the Jew. That's what you don't understand.

Apparently not, since I also don’t recognize the concept of ‘unborn’. Or ‘the undead’, for that matter.

Yes, and Nazis didn't recognize the humanity of Jews, either.

And the Klan didn't recognize the humanity of blacks.

So you're in good company...

Again: living, breathing, already born beings.

 

[Lesh]

Arguing the pros and cons of abortion with anti-abortion freaks is a fruitless endeavor.

Choice is popular regardless of how the nutjobs feel.

What needs to be pointed out is that choice is under attack...in the Supreme Court and in EVERY state.

Don't think your state is safe. They will target your state next

Again. There is no arguing with anti-abortion freaks

 

[Dragonlady]

Im not trying to justify abortion. I think it is inhumane to destroy potential human life like that. I just dont want the state wiping my ass for me like you.

Permitting abortion is the state wiping people’s asses for them. People who, despite contraception being the cheapest, most available, and easier to use than anytime in history, still have unprotected sex and are shocked when participating in the act of reproduction produces a baby. And then they ask the government if it’s ok to take a mulligan on it. It’s undeniable human life that we turn our consciousness off too and say, “go ahead and scrape it out, shit happens.” We don’t say that when people get blitzed and then hop behind a wheel and kill someone. Just because you can’t physically see it, that makes it better? It’s letting people who should know better make stupid decisions and erasing the consequences of that decision for them.

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

 

[sakinago]

Permitting abortion is the state wiping people’s asses for them. People who, despite contraception being the cheapest, most available, and easier to use than anytime in history, still have unprotected sex and are shocked when participating in the act of reproduction produces a baby. And then they ask the government if it’s ok to take a mulligan on it. It’s undeniable human life that we turn our consciousness off too and say, “go ahead and scrape it out, shit happens.” We don’t say that when people get blitzed and then hop behind a wheel and kill someone. Just because you can’t physically see it, that makes it better? It’s letting people who should know better make stupid decisions and erasing the consequences of that decision for them.

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

No, this is the central question to the abortion debate. Is a fetus life, and does it have a right to life. That question was not addressed by Row V wade, doesn’t even apply to the 4th amendment since it rights do not extend to the infringing on other rights, if that’s still in question, and also doesn’t apply since it doesn’t have anything to do with privacy since it’s an incredibly unprivate act that both the medical community and the government both keep extensive records on. Unless of course you believe government has no right to get involved in anything pertaining to medicine, which I’m taking an educated guess you don’t. RVW, is also a violation of both the 9th and 10th amendments. Which I’m taking an educated guess you were all for the 10th when the SCOTUS stuck down DOMA and said it was a states right issue since the fed did not have those powers granted in the enumerated rights. And then 2 years later cited the 9th saying stated have no say in the matter. You could argue the 9th, but then again the government was given the responsibility to protect life. So that’s out of the question for RVW.

Stop avoiding the actual question behind abortion. You should’nt have to avoid it like you are if you have all the answers. Is a fetus life, and does fall under the protection of life.

 

[Dana7360]

Arguing the pros and cons of abortion with anti-abortion freaks is a fruitless endeavor.

Choice is popular regardless of how the nutjobs feel.

What needs to be pointed out is that choice is under attack...in the Supreme Court and in EVERY state.

Don't think your state is safe. They will target your state next

There is only one way that my state's law that guarantees that abortion stays legal and safe is if the nation's supreme court rules that abortion is unconstitutional.

The people of my state voted very loudly 26 years ago when we passed the law that guarantees that abortion stays legal and safe in my state.

My state congress can't reverse it nor can my state's supreme court.

 

[Dragonlady]

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

No, this is the central question to the abortion debate. Is a fetus life, and does it have a right to life. That question was not addressed by Row V wade, doesn’t even apply to the 4th amendment since it rights do not extend to the infringing on other rights, if that’s still in question, and also doesn’t apply since it doesn’t have anything to do with privacy since it’s an incredibly unprivate act that both the medical community and the government both keep extensive records on. Unless of course you believe government has no right to get involved in anything pertaining to medicine, which I’m taking an educated guess you don’t. RVW, is also a violation of both the 9th and 10th amendments. Which I’m taking an educated guess you were all for the 10th when the SCOTUS stuck down DOMA and said it was a states right issue since the fed did not have those powers granted in the enumerated rights. And then 2 years later cited the 9th saying stated have no say in the matter. You could argue the 9th, but then again the government was given the responsibility to protect life. So that’s out of the question for RVW.

Stop avoiding the actual question behind abortion. You should’nt have to avoid it like you are if you have all the answers. Is a fetus life, and does fall under the protection of life.

The question is not when does life begin. Life begins at birth. That is the legal definition of life since the dawn of time.

You wish to ascribe some other definition to the beginning of life in order that you can enforce your definition of morality on pregnant women.

Your sole purpose in this is to strip a woman of her privacy rights and her right to security of person. There is no way that you can frame an abortion law that doesn’t say that women aren’t allowed to make their own decisions in these matters, in which case, the Handmaids Tale is becoming reality.

Abortion laws don’t affect the rich. They will either find a doctor who will accommodate their wishes, or go to a jurisdiction where abortion is legal. It is the poor who suffer under these laws.

Society suffers too because unwanted children are lower in IQ, higher in delinquency levels, and generally don’t become as productive.

 

[sakinago]

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

No, this is the central question to the abortion debate. Is a fetus life, and does it have a right to life. That question was not addressed by Row V wade, doesn’t even apply to the 4th amendment since it rights do not extend to the infringing on other rights, if that’s still in question, and also doesn’t apply since it doesn’t have anything to do with privacy since it’s an incredibly unprivate act that both the medical community and the government both keep extensive records on. Unless of course you believe government has no right to get involved in anything pertaining to medicine, which I’m taking an educated guess you don’t. RVW, is also a violation of both the 9th and 10th amendments. Which I’m taking an educated guess you were all for the 10th when the SCOTUS stuck down DOMA and said it was a states right issue since the fed did not have those powers granted in the enumerated rights. And then 2 years later cited the 9th saying stated have no say in the matter. You could argue the 9th, but then again the government was given the responsibility to protect life. So that’s out of the question for RVW.

Stop avoiding the actual question behind abortion. You should’nt have to avoid it like you are if you have all the answers. Is a fetus life, and does fall under the protection of life.

The question is not when does life begin. Life begins at birth. That is the legal definition of life since the dawn of time.

You wish to ascribe some other definition to the beginning of life in order that you can enforce your definition of morality on pregnant women.

Your sole purpose in this is to strip a woman of her privacy rights and her right to security of person. There is no way that you can frame an abortion law that doesn’t say that women aren’t allowed to make their own decisions in these matters, in which case, the Handmaids Tale is becoming reality.

Abortion laws don’t affect the rich. They will either find a doctor who will accommodate their wishes, or go to a jurisdiction where abortion is legal. It is the poor who suffer under these laws.

Society suffers too because unwanted children are lower in IQ, higher in delinquency levels, and generally don’t become as productive.

Well shit, didn’t know that IQ levels relied on whether or not the child was wanted, that’s some pretty interesting science. Almost said something way too mean, I’ll abstain. Is that some new epigenetics stuff coming fresh out of the world of science that you so clearly inhabit?

And no that is not even close to the definition of the beginning of life, not by law, not even by science.

And handmaidens tale, wow...Amazon comes out with one show and all of a sudden, people like me who believe in the importance of using birth control so they don’t pregnant, is the exact same as justifying raping women because that’s all their good for. Forgive me if I think birth control is vastly more important and vastly less morally wrong (birth control isn’t morally wrong) than killing you’re own offspring.

So if life begins at birth, why is it we have time limits on abortion? That doesn’t make a whole lotta sense. Why is it it’s a double homicide when a pregnant women is murdered, even if she’s on her way to get an abortion? That’s also weird. Why is it a fetus meets all the requirements of life as defined by science? I’m not understanding any of this, please explain. How is it life all of a sudden just happens once a fully formed friggen baby passes through the birth canal, in the words of Ron Burgendy makes me think “boy that escalated quickly.”

 

[Cecilie1200]

Permitting abortion is the state wiping people’s asses for them. People who, despite contraception being the cheapest, most available, and easier to use than anytime in history, still have unprotected sex and are shocked when participating in the act of reproduction produces a baby. And then they ask the government if it’s ok to take a mulligan on it. It’s undeniable human life that we turn our consciousness off too and say, “go ahead and scrape it out, shit happens.” We don’t say that when people get blitzed and then hop behind a wheel and kill someone. Just because you can’t physically see it, that makes it better? It’s letting people who should know better make stupid decisions and erasing the consequences of that decision for them.

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

Excuse me, WHO appointed you to decide what is and isn't a question of morality? At what point did I, or anyone, indicate that we gave a piss into a windstorm whether or not YOU thought something involved morality, or even that we acknowledged your ability to recognize morality? Of all the unmitigated, sheer nerve!

You know the REAL reason why the abortion issue is so rancorous and unsolvable? It's because self-absorbed, tunnel-visioned leftists like you flat frigging REFUSE to even try to understand where pro-lifers are coming from, and think it's perfectly acceptable to stick your fingers in your ears and dismissively issue statements like "It isn't a question of morality". Newflash, honey: YOU are not defining the question all by your onesie, based on nothing more than, "I want to do this, and therefore THIS is what reality is going to be, now give me my way!" There's a whole other side to this debate, and waving them away airily is just another way of saying, "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to have to admit it."

Just for the record, I didn't bother to read a single other word of your self-serving twaddle. Your first sentence said everything that needs to be known about you and your argument. You don't merit the respect needed to read the rest of your post as though you're going to say something worthwhile.

 

[Dragonlady]

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

Excuse me, WHO appointed you to decide what is and isn't a question of morality? At what point did I, or anyone, indicate that we gave a piss into a windstorm whether or not YOU thought something involved morality, or even that we acknowledged your ability to recognize morality? Of all the unmitigated, sheer nerve!

You know the REAL reason why the abortion issue is so rancorous and unsolvable? It's because self-absorbed, tunnel-visioned leftists like you flat frigging REFUSE to even try to understand where pro-lifers are coming from, and think it's perfectly acceptable to stick your fingers in your ears and dismissively issue statements like "It isn't a question of morality". Newflash, honey: YOU are not defining the question all by your onesie, based on nothing more than, "I want to do this, and therefore THIS is what reality is going to be, now give me my way!" There's a whole other side to this debate, and waving them away airily is just another way of saying, "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to have to admit it."

Just for the record, I didn't bother to read a single other word of your self-serving twaddle. Your first sentence said everything that needs to be known about you and your argument. You don't merit the respect needed to read the rest of your post as though you're going to say something worthwhile.

If you didn’t read my post, your ridiculous rant about it has no validity.

Who are YOU to judge what is moral or right?

Your not “pro-life” and never have been. Your opposed to abortion but that wasn’t an attractive thing to most people so you gussied up your anti-woman, anti-abortion misogyny by dressing it up as “pro-life”.

None are your policies are “pro-life”. They’re all anti-abortion. You don’t care about women dying in childbirth at high levels in the US. You only care about banning abortion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What part of this is ANY OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS????

The decision to have a baby is none of your concern. It’s not your life. It’s not your family. You don’t want to be responsible for this child. You don’t want to pay for its health care, housing or education.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

No, this is the central question to the abortion debate. Is a fetus life, and does it have a right to life. That question was not addressed by Row V wade, doesn’t even apply to the 4th amendment since it rights do not extend to the infringing on other rights, if that’s still in question, and also doesn’t apply since it doesn’t have anything to do with privacy since it’s an incredibly unprivate act that both the medical community and the government both keep extensive records on. Unless of course you believe government has no right to get involved in anything pertaining to medicine, which I’m taking an educated guess you don’t. RVW, is also a violation of both the 9th and 10th amendments. Which I’m taking an educated guess you were all for the 10th when the SCOTUS stuck down DOMA and said it was a states right issue since the fed did not have those powers granted in the enumerated rights. And then 2 years later cited the 9th saying stated have no say in the matter. You could argue the 9th, but then again the government was given the responsibility to protect life. So that’s out of the question for RVW.

Stop avoiding the actual question behind abortion. You should’nt have to avoid it like you are if you have all the answers. Is a fetus life, and does fall under the protection of life.

Yeah, see, it's not a question SHE wants to ask or deal with, so she figures she can just declare it not an issue, because how dare anyone think THEY get any sort of input into the question if it contradicts what Her Imperial Highness, Dragonlady Queen of the Universe, decrees reality should be?

God forbid she actually lower herself to listen to the other side and take two seconds to contemplate where they're coming from and why. SHE doesn't want it that way, ergo it's silly and not worth dignifying.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Amazing how that standard applies to literally nothing else in your worldview EXCEPT abortion.

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

Excuse me, WHO appointed you to decide what is and isn't a question of morality? At what point did I, or anyone, indicate that we gave a piss into a windstorm whether or not YOU thought something involved morality, or even that we acknowledged your ability to recognize morality? Of all the unmitigated, sheer nerve!

You know the REAL reason why the abortion issue is so rancorous and unsolvable? It's because self-absorbed, tunnel-visioned leftists like you flat frigging REFUSE to even try to understand where pro-lifers are coming from, and think it's perfectly acceptable to stick your fingers in your ears and dismissively issue statements like "It isn't a question of morality". Newflash, honey: YOU are not defining the question all by your onesie, based on nothing more than, "I want to do this, and therefore THIS is what reality is going to be, now give me my way!" There's a whole other side to this debate, and waving them away airily is just another way of saying, "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to have to admit it."

Just for the record, I didn't bother to read a single other word of your self-serving twaddle. Your first sentence said everything that needs to be known about you and your argument. You don't merit the respect needed to read the rest of your post as though you're going to say something worthwhile.

If you didn’t read my post, your ridiculous rant about it has no validity.

Who are YOU to judge what is moral or right?

Your not “pro-life” and never have been. Your opposed to abortion but that wasn’t an attractive thing to most people so you gussied up your anti-woman, anti-abortion misogyny by dressing it up as “pro-life”.

None are your policies are “pro-life”. They’re all anti-abortion. You don’t care about women dying in childbirth at high levels in the US. You only care about banning abortion.

Talk to the hand, Ego Lass. You and I both know that you'd declare my "rant" to "have no validity" no matter what happened, because you consistently make it very clear that anything you don't like and don't want to be true is by definition invalid.

My "rant" was about the part I did read, so unless you're now going to try to pretend that you did NOT relegate to yourself the right to dictate what the debate is about based solely on your own personal whims, it is 100% valid.

What's invalid is any sleazy, self-serving attempt to justify your garbage and your hubris, which is why I didn't bother reading it.

Who am I to judge what's moral or right? I'm a human being who is a citizen of this society, and thus has the right and responsibility to participate in the decision-making as to what kind of society it is. Just like you are.

And you know shit about "my policies" or anything else, no matter how much omniscience and infallibility you (very mistakenly) flatter yourself that you have. But then, it's not like I could expect you to talk about anything I ACTUALLY have to say, since you in your supremeness have declared that my half of the debate isn't part of the debate at all, haven't you? So I guess it follows that you'd have to make up my argument for me and waste everyone's time telling me how wrong "my" argument is.

The only real question right now is why you're even bothering to post to this message board, Your Majesty, since you're carrying on BOTH sides of the debate in your own lint-filled skull.

 

[Dragonlady]

I’m not avoiding the question because I fear the answer. I avoid the question because there is it’s not relevant to the debate.

You cannot ascribe right’s to a fetus. It is both morally and legally wrong to do so. Because in doing so, you are stripping rights from its mother and her rights and her beliefs about that fetus are the only opinions that matter in decisions regarding its future.

Anything less means that women have no right to security of person.

 

[Dragonlady]

That’s because there is nothing else remotely similar to pregnancy and childbirth, and nothing that impacts a woman’s life more than the decision as to whether or not to have a baby. This is true regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy.

And here’s reality. Leaving this decision to the woman, her partner and her caregiver’s costs the state nothing. All of this bullshit around trying to force a woman to have a child she cannot afford, is an expensive waste of taxpayers’ money.

If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t have one. This is my belief. I believe that abortion is wrong, so I didn’t have one.

Choice is something I have marched for. For myself and my daughters. Not having an abortion is a choice.

Ahhh, so you've decided that this one thing of all others in the world is just so special and important that it is exempt from YOUR OWN MORAL STANDARDS. As far as I'm concerned, what I just heard is, "Right and wrong are defined by what I, and only I, want at the moment."

The abortion debate isn’t a question of morality. It’s a question of privacy and my right to control my life and the size of my family.

You keep trying to make this discussion about something else - your version of morality, or what you think your God would want.

I chose to have my baby. There was a cost. I never got my MBA. And I’ve never regretted my decision. But it was my decision to make.

Another friend found out she was pregnant after she had separated from her husband. She chose to end the pregnancy and wait until she was in a better situation. She had just moved to a new city to start a new life and hadn’t even found a job at that point. She also wanted to sever all ties with her husband going forward. A child is an unbreakable tie.

I am a religious woman. I believe that God have us the ability to choose. Not all embryos are viable. Just as all conditions are not ideal. God gave us choice because in times of war, famine, or other catastrophes, it’s not always possible or reasonable for women to have babies. Sometimes, the risk to both mother and child is too great.

Whatever your beliefs, allowing women to make their own choices based on their own beliefs and their own situations is the best route to go.

Pro-choice is the only unreasonable solution.

Excuse me, WHO appointed you to decide what is and isn't a question of morality? At what point did I, or anyone, indicate that we gave a piss into a windstorm whether or not YOU thought something involved morality, or even that we acknowledged your ability to recognize morality? Of all the unmitigated, sheer nerve!

You know the REAL reason why the abortion issue is so rancorous and unsolvable? It's because self-absorbed, tunnel-visioned leftists like you flat frigging REFUSE to even try to understand where pro-lifers are coming from, and think it's perfectly acceptable to stick your fingers in your ears and dismissively issue statements like "It isn't a question of morality". Newflash, honey: YOU are not defining the question all by your onesie, based on nothing more than, "I want to do this, and therefore THIS is what reality is going to be, now give me my way!" There's a whole other side to this debate, and waving them away airily is just another way of saying, "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to have to admit it."

Just for the record, I didn't bother to read a single other word of your self-serving twaddle. Your first sentence said everything that needs to be known about you and your argument. You don't merit the respect needed to read the rest of your post as though you're going to say something worthwhile.

If you didn’t read my post, your ridiculous rant about it has no validity.

Who are YOU to judge what is moral or right?

Your not “pro-life” and never have been. Your opposed to abortion but that wasn’t an attractive thing to most people so you gussied up your anti-woman, anti-abortion misogyny by dressing it up as “pro-life”.

None are your policies are “pro-life”. They’re all anti-abortion. You don’t care about women dying in childbirth at high levels in the US. You only care about banning abortion.

Talk to the hand, Ego Lass. You and I both know that you'd declare my "rant" to "have no validity" no matter what happened, because you consistently make it very clear that anything you don't like and don't want to be true is by definition invalid.

My "rant" was about the part I did read, so unless you're now going to try to pretend that you did NOT relegate to yourself the right to dictate what the debate is about based solely on your own personal whims, it is 100% valid.

What's invalid is any sleazy, self-serving attempt to justify your garbage and your hubris, which is why I didn't bother reading it.

Who am I to judge what's moral or right? I'm a human being who is a citizen of this society, and thus has the right and responsibility to participate in the decision-making as to what kind of society it is. Just like you are.

And you know shit about "my policies" or anything else, no matter how much omniscience and infallibility you (very mistakenly) flatter yourself that you have. But then, it's not like I could expect you to talk about anything I ACTUALLY have to say, since you in your supremeness have declared that my half of the debate isn't part of the debate at all, haven't you? So I guess it follows that you'd have to make up my argument for me and waste everyone's time telling me how wrong "my" argument is.

The only real question right now is why you're even bothering to post to this message board, Your Majesty, since you're carrying on BOTH sides of the debate in your own lint-filled skull.

Now you’re just blithering.

The whole debate is not about when the fetus has life. The debate is whether or not a woman is entitled to make private decisions about her life and her body without state interference. Does she in fact have “security of person” as set out in the Constitiution and the Bill of Rights.

It’s a very simple yes or no question.

I live in a country that has no abortion law. No restrictions on abortion at all. And the government pays for your abortion - no copay, no extra billing.

Our abortion rate is half what yours is. Tell me again how you oppose abortion because I don’t believe you for a second.