Issues on which I disagree with the right

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh come on. That is the ancient and totally discredited Domino Theory.
First of all, there are no countries that are even remotely communist and there never were unless you go back to primitive hunter/gatherers.
Second is that countries claiming to be communist, like the USSR and China, were never significant allies, and instead fought each other more than they fought us.

We never had to fight any wars, and instead what we did was to massacre and support puppet dictators.
For example, we installed Syngman Rhee in South Korea, even though he had fled Korea originally after massive felonies, and he then proceeded to massacre tens of thousands of innocent villages after we forced Korea to take him back.
In Vietnam the list of evil US backed dictators is very long and obvious.
So obvious that even Buddhists who should be anti-communists, were setting themselves on fire in protest of them.

The facts are we gained wealth by stealing it from all over the world, and that is why we were constantly sending in troops to suppress local rebellions against our repressive puppets. The School of the Americas at Ft. Bennings GA, and all the South American dictatorships we support, is proof of that. Valid governments to not need to be taught how to conduct torture.

Your problem is you live in your own little world. Laws we have are not legal, Communist countries are not really Communist, the voting system is rigged so no third party ever stands a chance. You are too divorced from reality to have a serious discussion.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

i didn't say they weren't pointless.
i didn't say they don't do more damage than good
i didn't say it wasn't the profiteers in action

i said human nature is to argue and fight.

Now we have a serious problem on our hands with China. China is threatening Taiwan and may invade them. Once they take over Taiwan, Japan will be in their cross hairs next if our leadership is so weak we don't get involved.

 

[iceberg]

But I still do not think war would still happen unless there were evil people lying about something in order to get the war started.
For example, the US was drawn into WWI by false propaganda, like that German soldiers were barbecuing and eating Belgian infants.

The Bayonet Baby Effect

The Bayonet Baby Effect At the beginning of the WW1 (1914), the British press were reporting that Germans were tossing Belgian babies into the air and catching them with their bayonets like the Nor…

antzml.wordpress.com

there will be a variety of reasons and evil people certainly top the list. evil can also be human nature.

we fight. we argue. it's childish more often than not but it's "human nature".

if we can't go a day with fighting in here what makes anyone think something larger in scale has a chance?

 

[Rigby5]

Your problem is you live in your own little world. Laws we have are not legal, Communist countries are not really Communist, the voting system is rigged so no third party ever stands a chance. You are too divorced from reality to have a serious discussion.

My professions do not allow for any mistakes.
I have to constantly correlate so much information that I can never allow any mistakes.

So it is obvious to me all the mistakes we currently are making and have been making throughout history.
The war on drugs is almost identical to Prohibition. If Prohibition was not wrong, why did we end it?
If Vietnam was not wrong, then why did we end it?
If slavery was not wrong, then why did we fight a Civil War in order to end it?
If burning witches was not wrong, then why did we end it?

If you look at asset forfeiture, it is obviously illegal because it allows prosecutors to benefit from their prosecutions, tainting their actions.
Mandated sentences are obviously illegal because each individual has a right to be judge by their immediate actions, not by some category defined by distant legislators.

The facts are that obviously there are always going to be some laws inherently illegal.
Society started corrupt and ignorant, and we slowly learned and demanded real justice.

The fact this is even being argued is an indicator we still have a very long way to go.

 

[Rigby5]

Now we have a serious problem on our hands with China. China is threatening Taiwan and may invade them. Once they take over Taiwan, Japan will be in their cross hairs next if our leadership is so weak we don't get involved.

Wrong.
The Taiwanese do NOT like the mainland fugitives who took over Taiwan by force.

{...
During the immediate postwar period, the Kuomintang (KMT) administration on Taiwan was repressive and extremely corrupt compared with the previous Japanese rule, leading to local discontent. Anti-mainlander violence flared on February 28, 1947, prompted by an incident in which a cigarette seller was injured and a passerby was indiscriminately shot dead by Nationalist authorities.[78] During the ensuing crackdown by the KMT administration in what became known as the February 28 Incident, tens of thousands of people were killed or arrested, and the incident became a taboo topic of discussion for the entire martial law era.

From the 1930s onward the Chinese Civil War was underway in mainland China between Chiang Kai-shek's ROC government and the Communist Party of China led by Mao Zedong. When the Communists gained complete control of Mainland China in 1949, two million refugees, predominantly from the Nationalist government, military, and business community, fled to Taiwan. On October 1, 1949 the People's Republic of China (P.R.C.) was founded in mainland China by the victorious communists; several months before, Chiang Kai-shek had established a provisional ROC capital in Taipei and moved his Nanjing-based government there. Under Nationalist rule, the mainlanders dominated the government and civil services.[79]
...}

History of Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Elections were not allowed in Taiwan until 1996.
The government in Taiwan is likely the most corrupt and hated in the entire world.
And ONCE again, the US is on the side of evil dictators.

Taiwan should either be restored to Japan or China mainland.

 

[Rigby5]

there will be a variety of reasons and evil people certainly top the list. evil can also be human nature.

we fight. we argue. it's childish more often than not but it's "human nature".

if we can't go a day with fighting in here what makes anyone think something larger in scale has a chance?

Arguing and conflict is one thing, but war is deliberate murder, dehumanizing, evil, and pointless.

 

[dblack]

My professions do not allow for any mistakes.
I have to constantly correlate so much information that I can never allow any mistakes.

So it is obvious to me all the mistakes we currently are making and have been making throughout history.

That's amazing. An all-knowing deity in our midst. Whodathunkit?

 

[Rigby5]

That's amazing. An all-knowing deity in our midst. Whodathunkit?

No, with incorrect or incomplete data, I also can make mistakes.
I just do not accept all the false programming and conditioning people are put through and tend to believe.
It is a question of developing a critical analytic nature.
We can all see the false assumptions and conditioning if we want to, but most do not want to.
It does not make them happier, but less happy.
Ignorance is bliss for most people.

 

[iceberg]

Arguing and conflict is one thing, but war is deliberate murder, dehumanizing, evil, and pointless.

I never said it wasn't.

I said it's part of human nature.

 

[dblack]

No, with incorrect or incomplete data, I also can make mistakes.

Well, shit. You had me all excited there. I was going to vote for you for godking.

 

[Rigby5]

I never said it wasn't.

I said it's part of human nature.

Can't be.

Well, shit. You had me all excited there. I was going to vote for you for godking.

There is a difference between good analytic skills and being all knowing.
But analytic skills are something anyone can work on and improve.
You just have to start by questioning more.

 

[Rigby5]

I never said it wasn't.

I said it's part of human nature.

Original human nature evolved from the fact we were once primates living in the safety of tree tops, and something changed, that brought us done to where the predators were, without any claws, fangs, armor, or speed to protect us.
So we had to group in order to survive.
Like Meerkats.
When a predator attacked one, the rest had to instantly come to its rescue, even though that meant many more had to die.
That is what finally ended the predator attacks.

So then no, war is not human nature.
Human nature is the opposite of war.
We have natural, inherent, social empathy.
When we are tricked into war, it is very destructive, and no one comes out unscathed.

 

[iceberg]

Can't be.


There is a difference between good analytic skills and being all knowing.
But analytic skills are something anyone can work on and improve.
You just have to start by questioning more.

so, war can't be a part of human nature, yet we've been doing it as long as we've had humans.

OK. you must be right.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Government needs to butt-out except when there is extortion like from a monopoly, and clearly big Pharma, insurance companies, and health care multi nationals are guilty of unfair monopoly tactics.

The War on Drugs should totally end.
It is inherently illegal, harmful, and totally corrupt.
I would never recommend drugs, but making anything illegal that harms no one else, causes problems to greatly amplify.

Yes we CAN live without wars.
The only war the US was ever unavoidable was the War of 1812.
The rest were all immoral, illegal, and deliberately cause by the US to some degree.

They were legal moral and not caused by the US your history is a sham

 

[Soupnazi630]

Oh come on. That is the ancient and totally discredited Domino Theory.
First of all, there are no countries that are even remotely communist and there never were unless you go back to primitive hunter/gatherers.
Second is that countries claiming to be communist, like the USSR and China, were never significant allies, and instead fought each other more than they fought us.

We never had to fight any wars, and instead what we did was to massacre and support puppet dictators.
For example, we installed Syngman Rhee in South Korea, even though he had fled Korea originally after massive felonies, and he then proceeded to massacre tens of thousands of innocent villages after we forced Korea to take him back.
In Vietnam the list of evil US backed dictators is very long and obvious.
So obvious that even Buddhists who should be anti-communists, were setting themselves on fire in protest of them.

The facts are we gained wealth by stealing it from all over the world, and that is why we were constantly sending in troops to suppress local rebellions against our repressive puppets. The School of the Americas at Ft. Bennings GA, and all the South American dictatorships we support, is proof of that. Valid governments to not need to be taught how to conduct torture.

Korea and Vietnam were started by communists and we were justified in fighting to defend against that aggression

The School of the Americas was beneficial to the region and to us

 

[Rigby5]

so, war can't be a part of human nature, yet we've been doing it as long as we've had humans.

OK. you must be right.

Before we became sedentary agriculturalists, there is not much evidence of war.
Only after agriculture was there production surplus, currency, and then mercenaries.
Ony then did war become a profession.
Only then were weapons intended only for war, developed.
Only then were there monarchs and priests who pushed for wars that they did not risk anything in.

 

[Rigby5]

so, war can't be a part of human nature, yet we've been doing it as long as we've had humans.

OK. you must be right.

Humans have been around for millions of years, and war seems to not exist much until 2500 BC.

 

[braalian]

Before we became sedentary agriculturalists, there is not much evidence of war.
Only after agriculture was there production surplus, currency, and then mercenaries.
Ony then did war become a profession.
Only then were weapons intended only for war, developed.
Only then were there monarchs and priests who pushed for wars that they did not risk anything in.

True, but it’s not as if we were living in some sort of innocent, Eden-like paradise before agriculture and villages and monarchs.

Life was brutal and short and there was plenty of tribal and ritualistic violence. The discoveries of un-contacted, pre-agricultural tribes right up to modern day shows us that.

 

[iceberg]

Before we became sedentary agriculturalists, there is not much evidence of war.
Only after agriculture was there production surplus, currency, and then mercenaries.
Ony then did war become a profession.
Only then were weapons intended only for war, developed.
Only then were there monarchs and priests who pushed for wars that they did not risk anything in.

and if it wasn't for human nature it never. would have developed.

 

[iceberg]

Humans have been around for millions of years, and war seems to not exist much until 2500 BC.

fighting has always been around. war is an Escalation of that.