Israel's Occupation Is Morally Indefensible

[RoccoR]

pbel, et al,

The Palestinians have more contributions, from more Donor Nations, made for a longer time, then any single forum of people in the world.

Honestly your constant bullshit analysis is that of an idiot because the Palestinians are the most educated and secular of all the Arabs, Creating an economy with the boot of Israel crushing their necks to the ground and yet surviving under these conditions is a miracle while Israel's success can be traced to the incredible flow of American/Jewish money.

You have no point.

(COMMENT)

No one is hold down the Arab Palestinians; except themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Humanity]

P F Tinmore, pbel, Billo_Really, et al,

Actually, you are wrong.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, did I say that? I did not.

"Delegation solemnly declares that it is the unflinching determination of every Arab in Palestine to defend his country against any power or group of powers or any force going to Palestine to partition the country.​

And you believe that self defense is illegal.

(COMMENT)

I said two very important things:

• This was the equivalency of a declaration of war.
• That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine is a country defined by international borders. The Palestinians were the habitual residents of Palestine and they held Palestinian citizenship.

And you say That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Rocco, you are a hoot.

(COMMENT)

• Palestine was a 'legal entity' but it is not a "sovereign state."
• Citizenship was to the Mandate Territory, not a sovereign country. From 1922 to 1948, Palestine was defined by the Palestine Order in Council as the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
• International Borders for Territory formerly under Mandate were relevant to the Allied Power and used for their administration.
• The Citizenship was to the "Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order. It was not to some undefined Arab State.
• The "territory of Palestine" was an entity "within such boundaries as may be fixed by" the Allied Powers and NOT by a self-determination of any Arab people.

As linked, the "legal entity" status was opened and publicly explained by the Mandatory and the UN in a joint Release (Press Release PAL/138) on the Successor Government.

When the Jewish People Declared Independence, the remainder of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied would have been a UN legal entity. However, the pol-mil error of the Arab League changed the plan thru Arab interference. The West Bank fell under Jordanian authority and the Gaza Strip fell under Egyptian authority. The remainder fell under Israeli control as outline by the multiple Armistice agreements.

If there is a hoot; it flew by me.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco,

I used to find most of your posts informative and MOSTLY balanced...

Lately it seems that you have lost your way a bit...

You are mixing fact with Zionist propaganda, erring on more propaganda than fact these days...

Semantics really do not work in such a polarised subject! I hope that, soon, you can find your 'balance' and provide informative posts again...

"legal entity" or "sovereign state"? Please...

I fear that we can all find our own 'interpretation' of historical declarations, in the end, it's not about how fucked up the British made the region, it's not about the broken promises that were told to the indigenous Arabs...

It's about what is happening now...

Israel exists... Let them be...

Palestinians exist... Let them be...

Arguing about semantics is utterly futile...

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, pbel, Billo_Really, et al,

Actually, you are wrong.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, did I say that? I did not.

"Delegation solemnly declares that it is the unflinching determination of every Arab in Palestine to defend his country against any power or group of powers or any force going to Palestine to partition the country.​

And you believe that self defense is illegal.

(COMMENT)

I said two very important things:

• This was the equivalency of a declaration of war.
• That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine is a country defined by international borders. The Palestinians were the habitual residents of Palestine and they held Palestinian citizenship.

And you say That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Rocco, you are a hoot.

(COMMENT)

• Palestine was a 'legal entity' but it is not a "sovereign state."
• Citizenship was to the Mandate Territory, not a sovereign country. From 1922 to 1948, Palestine was defined by the Palestine Order in Council as the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
• International Borders for Territory formerly under Mandate were relevant to the Allied Power and used for their administration.
• The Citizenship was to the "Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order. It was not to some undefined Arab State.
• The "territory of Palestine" was an entity "within such boundaries as may be fixed by" the Allied Powers and NOT by a self-determination of any Arab people.

As linked, the "legal entity" status was opened and publicly explained by the Mandatory and the UN in a joint Release (Press Release PAL/138) on the Successor Government.

When the Jewish People Declared Independence, the remainder of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied would have been a UN legal entity. However, the pol-mil error of the Arab League changed the plan thru Arab interference. The West Bank fell under Jordanian authority and the Gaza Strip fell under Egyptian authority. The remainder fell under Israeli control as outline by the multiple Armistice agreements.

If there is a hoot; it flew by me.

Most Respectfully,
R

P F Tinmore, pbel, Billo_Really, et al,

Actually, you are wrong.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, did I say that? I did not.

"Delegation solemnly declares that it is the unflinching determination of every Arab in Palestine to defend his country against any power or group of powers or any force going to Palestine to partition the country.​

And you believe that self defense is illegal.

(COMMENT)

I said two very important things:

• This was the equivalency of a declaration of war.
• That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine is a country defined by international borders. The Palestinians were the habitual residents of Palestine and they held Palestinian citizenship.

And you say That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Rocco, you are a hoot.

(COMMENT)

• Palestine was a 'legal entity' but it is not a "sovereign state."
• Citizenship was to the Mandate Territory, not a sovereign country. From 1922 to 1948, Palestine was defined by the Palestine Order in Council as the "territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine."
• International Borders for Territory formerly under Mandate were relevant to the Allied Power and used for their administration.
• The Citizenship was to the "Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order. It was not to some undefined Arab State.
• The "territory of Palestine" was an entity "within such boundaries as may be fixed by" the Allied Powers and NOT by a self-determination of any Arab people.

As linked, the "legal entity" status was opened and publicly explained by the Mandatory and the UN in a joint Release (Press Release PAL/138) on the Successor Government.

When the Jewish People Declared Independence, the remainder of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied would have been a UN legal entity. However, the pol-mil error of the Arab League changed the plan thru Arab interference. The West Bank fell under Jordanian authority and the Gaza Strip fell under Egyptian authority. The remainder fell under Israeli control as outline by the multiple Armistice agreements.

If there is a hoot; it flew by me.

Most Respectfully,
R

That is quite a song and dance there, Rocco.

Palestine is a non self governing territory under foreign rule and always has been.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​

 

[CMike]

They should fully annex all territories captured in 1967.

End of moral dilemma.

Spot on.

Israel should annex all land it captured from the invading armies in 1967.

Well Said.

 

[CMike]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

 

[CMike]

pbel, et al,

You make my point. This has nothing to do with "racism."

Unemployable Palestinians you say? Frankly you're just a jumble of racism.

(COMMENT)

Maybe, I should have added the enormous mix of "underemployment" that is the companion to "unemployable." This is about a focus on a health economy, where the government works hand-in-hand with the venture capitalist, investors and entrepreneur that bring new businesses online and gradually erode both underemployment and open opportunities for those that are educated yet unemployable.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the constant complaint of "racism" from those that would rather degrade the economy in favor of funneling more revenue into the conflict (hostilities); and way from re-investment into the nation.

Everyday is an opportunity for the Arab Palestinians to turn their downward spiraling nation around and develop some real nation building programs. They just don't have the little gray cells to make it happen and, instead, want to blame everyone but themselves for their self-generating misfortune. But then, if this is how they choose to exercise their right of self-determination; all we can do is watch them shoot themselves in the foot and slowly bleed to death.

Most Respectfully,
R

Honestly your constant bullshit analysis is that of an idiot because the Palestinians are the most educated and secular of all the Arabs, Creating an economy with the boot of Israel crushing their necks to the ground and yet surviving under these conditions is a miracle while Israel's success can be traced to the incredible flow of American/Jewish money.

You have no point.

Whatever you are taking must be illegal.

 

[CMike]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, did I say that? I did not.

"Delegation solemnly declares that it is the unflinching determination of every Arab in Palestine to defend his country against any power or group of powers or any force going to Palestine to partition the country.​

And you believe that self defense is illegal.

(COMMENT)

I said two very important things:

• This was the equivalency of a declaration of war.
• That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine is a country defined by international borders. The Palestinians were the habitual residents of Palestine and they held Palestinian citizenship.

And you say That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Rocco, you are a hoot.

You mean they were part of the British empire?

 

[CMike]

The arab governments grant their "citizens" virtually no rights.

There is no due process. Woman have even less rights than no rights (I am being sarcastic)

Why would anyone wish a people be under an arab government dictatorship?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, did I say that? I did not.

"Delegation solemnly declares that it is the unflinching determination of every Arab in Palestine to defend his country against any power or group of powers or any force going to Palestine to partition the country.​

And you believe that self defense is illegal.

(COMMENT)

I said two very important things:

• This was the equivalency of a declaration of war.
• That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine is a country defined by international borders. The Palestinians were the habitual residents of Palestine and they held Palestinian citizenship.

And you say That the territory WAS NOT their country to defend.

Rocco, you are a hoot.

You mean they were part of the British empire?

Certainly not.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The arab governments grant their "citizens" virtually no rights.

There is no due process. Woman have even less rights than no rights (I am being sarcastic)

Why would anyone wish a people be under an arab government dictatorship?

Like Marah?

 

[pbel]

pbel, et al,

The Palestinians have more contributions, from more Donor Nations, made for a longer time, then any single forum of people in the world.

Honestly your constant bullshit analysis is that of an idiot because the Palestinians are the most educated and secular of all the Arabs, Creating an economy with the boot of Israel crushing their necks to the ground and yet surviving under these conditions is a miracle while Israel's success can be traced to the incredible flow of American/Jewish money.

You have no point.

(COMMENT)

No one is hold down the Arab Palestinians; except themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

personally, I think you're full of bull, but I will give you a chance to prove your numbers by some documentation with verifiable numbers per capita contributions to Israel's and Palestine's Economies from outside sources.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

 

[P F Tinmore]

pbel, et al,

The Palestinians have more contributions, from more Donor Nations, made for a longer time, then any single forum of people in the world.

Honestly your constant bullshit analysis is that of an idiot because the Palestinians are the most educated and secular of all the Arabs, Creating an economy with the boot of Israel crushing their necks to the ground and yet surviving under these conditions is a miracle while Israel's success can be traced to the incredible flow of American/Jewish money.

You have no point.

(COMMENT)

No one is hold down the Arab Palestinians; except themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

personally, I think you're full of bull, but I will give you a chance to prove your numbers by some documentation with verifiable numbers per capita contributions to Israel's and Palestine's Economies from outside sources.

Of course it does not help that Israel has fleets of equipment and bombs and missiles for the purpose of destroying anything and everything Palestinian.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

Link?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

Link?

Here you go, Sparky.

Teachers Guide - Muslims | Teacher Center | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[P F Tinmore]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

Link?

Here you go, Sparky.

Teachers Guide - Muslims | Teacher Center | FRONTLINE | PBS

This is not a religious conflict.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

Link?

Here you go, Sparky.

Teachers Guide - Muslims | Teacher Center | FRONTLINE | PBS

This is not a religious conflict.

Was my link too high-level for you?

 

[P F Tinmore]

1) it wasn't imoral

2) It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

Link?

Here you go, Sparky.

Teachers Guide - Muslims | Teacher Center | FRONTLINE | PBS

This is not a religious conflict.

Was my link too high-level for you?

No, just irrelevant.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It wasn't their homeland. Their homeland is either Jordan or Egypt.

Or even further away.

Link?

Here you go, Sparky.

Teachers Guide - Muslims | Teacher Center | FRONTLINE | PBS

This is not a religious conflict.

Was my link too high-level for you?

No, just irrelevant.

Why is proof that the Muslim Arabs weren't from "Palestine" irrelevant?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Very odd.

That is quite a song and dance there, Rocco.

Palestine is a non self governing territory under foreign rule and always has been.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​

(COMMENT)

You pull this material up quite frequently. I have two questions:

Q1: Who had jurisdiction over the West Bank and Gaza Strip when this was written in 1960?

Q2: When did A/RES/1514(XV) enter into forces as International Law?
​

I think you will find that the immediate action should have been taken by the Jordanians and Egyptians. OH wait! I'm wrong!

• The Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination relative to accepting Jordanian Annexation.

• The All-Palestine Government was merged into the United Arab Republic in 1959, and then dissolved. The Gaza Strip was handed to the Egyptian military administration.
​

Most Respectfully,
R