Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[P F Tinmore]

The UN does not state that it is ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians which have the right to self-determination in Palestine.

Link?

Are you seriously claiming that the UN has made a statement that ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians have a right to self-determination in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate?!

Please provide a link to that.

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Nor did it create a legal condition whereby the two peoples of the Mandate could not EACH have self-determination and separate.

The Treaty of Lausanne did not mention two people.

Exactly. Then it could not have created a legal condition which restricted rights of one of the two peoples.

There weren't two peoples only the Palestinians.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The UN does not state that it is ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians which have the right to self-determination in Palestine.

Link?

Are you seriously claiming that the UN has made a statement that ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians have a right to self-determination in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate?!

Please provide a link to that.

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Wasn't the Partition Plan envisioned by the UN?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Nor did it create a legal condition whereby the two peoples of the Mandate could not EACH have self-determination and separate.

The Treaty of Lausanne did not mention two people.

Neither does it even mention Palestine at all.

It didn't mention Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, or Iraq either.

Do you have a point?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Nor did it create a legal condition whereby the two peoples of the Mandate could not EACH have self-determination and separate.

The Treaty of Lausanne did not mention two people.

Exactly. Then it could not have created a legal condition which restricted rights of one of the two peoples.

There weren't two peoples only the Palestinians.

Well, there are now. Isn't this debate futile?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The UN does not state that it is ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians which have the right to self-determination in Palestine.

Link?

Are you seriously claiming that the UN has made a statement that ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians have a right to self-determination in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate?!

Please provide a link to that.

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Wasn't the Partition Plan envisioned by the UN?

It did and it flopped.

Resolution 181 was never implemented by the Security Council.

 

[Hollie]

The UN does not state that it is ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians which have the right to self-determination in Palestine.

Link?

Are you seriously claiming that the UN has made a statement that ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians have a right to self-determination in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate?!

Please provide a link to that.

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Wasn't the Partition Plan envisioned by the UN?

It did and it flopped.

Resolution 181 was never implemented by the Security Council.

Hasn't that been addressed for you multiple times now?

Rhetorical question as the obvious answer is yes. Really, dear, you spam multiple threads with the same cutting and pasting.

 

[Hollie]

Nor did it create a legal condition whereby the two peoples of the Mandate could not EACH have self-determination and separate.

The Treaty of Lausanne did not mention two people.

Exactly. Then it could not have created a legal condition which restricted rights of one of the two peoples.

There weren't two peoples only the Palestinians.

".... in the country of Disney.... oops, I mean the country of Pal'istan."

 

[P F Tinmore]

Link?

Are you seriously claiming that the UN has made a statement that ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians have a right to self-determination in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate?!

Please provide a link to that.

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Wasn't the Partition Plan envisioned by the UN?

It did and it flopped.

Resolution 181 was never implemented by the Security Council.

Hasn't that been addressed for you multiple times now?

Rhetorical question as the obvious answer is yes. Really, dear, you spam multiple threads with the same cutting and pasting.

Look it up for yourself.

 

[Shusha]

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Do you even hear yourself talk? UNGA 273(III).

 

[Hollie]

Are you seriously claiming that the UN has made a statement that ONLY the Arab Muslim Palestinians have a right to self-determination in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate?!

Please provide a link to that.

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Wasn't the Partition Plan envisioned by the UN?

It did and it flopped.

Resolution 181 was never implemented by the Security Council.

Hasn't that been addressed for you multiple times now?

Rhetorical question as the obvious answer is yes. Really, dear, you spam multiple threads with the same cutting and pasting.

Look it up for yourself.

I did. There was never a "county of Pal'istan".

How many more times are you going to spam multiple threads with the same cutting and pasting?

 

[Shusha]

There weren't two peoples only the Palestinians.

There were. And are. To claim otherwise is just silly.

But let's go along with your silly argument for just a minute. Let's say that all the Jewish people and all the Arab Muslim people are just "Palestinians". What legal instrument or precedent are you using to claim that after the development of two distinct peoples that only one has the right to self-determination? And what legal instrument or precedent are you using to claim that Palestine can't be divided into two distinct nations?

 

[Shusha]

Well, there are now. Isn't this debate futile?

It is futile. Because Tinmore's end game is the destruction of the State of Israel. And that is never going to happen.

 

[Hollie]

Well, there are now. Isn't this debate futile?

It is futile. Because Tinmore's end game is the destruction of the State of Israel. And that is never going to happen.

It's odd because while Tinmore will deny the precepts of the Hamas charter, he lives and breathes those very precepts.

 

[Shusha]

It's odd because while Tinmore will deny the precepts of the Hamas charter, he lives and breathes those very precepts.

I think he publicly denies their methods, but he clearly agrees with their goal.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Do you even hear yourself talk? UNGA 273(III).

Israel is in violation of UNGA 273.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Well, there are now. Isn't this debate futile?

It is futile. Because Tinmore's end game is the destruction of the State of Israel. And that is never going to happen.

It's odd because while Tinmore will deny the precepts of the Hamas charter, he lives and breathes those very precepts.

Israel occupies Palestine. It is not my thing. It is not a Hamas thing. It is an Israel thing.

 

[Shusha]

The UN mentions the Palestinians, nobody else.

Do you even hear yourself talk? UNGA 273(III).

Israel is in violation of UNGA 273.

Again, not my point. The UN clearly "mentions" Israel and Israelis. Don't be daft.

You are trying to present an argument that Israel has no right to exist and you are failing. Israel exists. Israel's right to exist as the Jewish National Homeland is entrenched in international law and treaty. You have absolutely no case here.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, Phoenall, Shusha,et al,

I have to admit, you are quite adept at twisting the facts.

It was never their country to defend. You keep saying that, but the Arab Palestinians did not exercise their sovereignty over any territory pre-1988 Declaration of Independence by the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian People.

You are back to Israeli talking points again.
That preventing the Palestinians from exercise their sovereignty at the point of a gun is a violation of their rights.

(COMMENT)

Whether or not it is a "Talking Point" is irrelevant to the it validity. Absolutely no one "prevented" the Arab Palestinians from exercising their right of swkf determination, sovereignty or independence. I repeat, NO ONE PREVENTED the Arab Palestinians in that regard. However, the Arab did attempt to prevent the rights of the Jewish Immigrants and citizens in that regard; by force in an invasion by the Arab League.

I have produced this treaty and you ignore it because it leaves out Israel, gaza, west bank and Jerusalem

The rules of occupation state that an occupying power does not acquire sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

It is customary under law that the Occupation Power does not exercise certain prerogatives (political transition of territory; Section III --- Occupied Territory, Article 47, GCIV); but that does not physically prevent the action.

Israel DID NOT acquire sovereignty by means of Occupation. Israel declared a limited number of areas as being sovereignly incorporated to the nation. It did so under the deliberation and vote by the Knesset (Parliament). It could have done so with or without the Occupation being in place. When the Jordanian Kingdom cut all ties and abandon certain territories (Terra Nullius), there was no Palestinian Provision Government to assume control (true Terra Nullius). The only nation exercising ANY control was Israel. Thus the decision of the status to the territory was in the hands of Israel.

Israel did not annex territory on the basis of "occupation." The Arab Palestinians have not grievance. The question remains: When the Jordanians abandon the territory, what government was in place?

The act of ensuring a transfer of citizenship from the ceding State to the Mandate did not create a State.

Nobody became the citizens of the Mandate.

(COMMENT)

Now you are just toying with words. This was explained in the First Comment in Posting #808:

(COMMENT)

• Article 16 grants rights and title to the Allied Powers.
• Nowhere, in the entire Treaty, are the Palestinians mentioned by name...
• The Treaty dealt with "nationalities," again not specifically mentioning the Palestinians.
• The Treaty set the authorization to for Mandatories to develop citizenship procedures.
• The citizenship of all those within the boundary defined by the Mandatory, was established under the criteria of the "Palestine Citizenship Order."
​

It remained nearly unchanged from the prcedures outlined in the Palestine Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

And what legal instrument or precedent are you using to claim that Palestine can't be divided into two distinct nations?

Maybe it could but it would have to be approved by the majority of the people.