Israel’s Big Lie of “Self-Defence”

[Billo_Really]

Gaza has been autonomous since 2005, mass murder cheerleader.

Then why can't they fish and farm without getting shot at by the IDF? Why can't humanitarian aid go into Gaza by sea? Israel has no jurisdiction in Gazan territorial waters, so why the acts of piracy by the IDF?

WHO THE FUCK SHOOTS AT PEOPLE FISHING?

 

[Rawley]

I said the Israeli right is murdering innocent civilians in Gaza. The IDF has already stated they were told by their commanders that no one is innocent in Gaza. No different than Germany's position on the Warsaw Ghetto.

And you seek no sick irony in calling the Jews Nazis.

 

[surada]

And you seek no sick irony in calling the Jews Nazis.

Israel holding over $250m it owes Iran for oil in secret account

A secret government bank account holds funds Israel owes Iran for oil it received before the 1979 revolution. Israel refuses to reveal who has been depositing money into and withdrawing money from the account.

www.haaretz.com

 

[Billo_Really]

And you seek no sick irony in calling the Jews Nazis.

I haven't said anything about the Jews! You want it to be about Jews, but it is not. It's about the Israeli right being really fucked up human beings. I completely support the Israeli left. I support all the Israeli protests on the Netanfuckyou government.

The Israeli right are Nazis, not Jews. This is not a religious issue, no matter how much you try to make it one.

 

[Rawley]

Israel holding over $250m it owes Iran for oil in secret account

A secret government bank account holds funds Israel owes Iran for oil it received before the 1979 revolution. Israel refuses to reveal who has been depositing money into and withdrawing money from the account.

www.haaretz.com

OK. And you think this somehow supports BIllo's antisemitic nonsense that the Jews are nazis?

 

[Rawley]

I haven't said anything about the Jews! You want it to be about Jews, but it is not. It's about the Israeli right being really fucked up human beings. I completely support the Israeli left. I support all the Israeli protests on the Netanfuckyou government.

The Israeli right are Nazis, not Jews. This is not a religious issue, no matter how much you try to make it one.

Cracks me up when antisemites hide behind 'It's not about the Jews, it's about Israel'

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

According to IHL, it doesn't matter who was sovereign. That land was not Israel's.

It wasn't Israel's, wasn't Jordan's, wasn't Egypt's, wasn't Turkey's.

Who did it belong to?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You can't give, what you don't have! That is not Israel's land to give, it's the land Israel must leave. Not Israel proper, just the OPT.

Russia and Poland get to keep that land?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel holding over $250m it owes Iran for oil in secret account

A secret government bank account holds funds Israel owes Iran for oil it received before the 1979 revolution. Israel refuses to reveal who has been depositing money into and withdrawing money from the account.

www.haaretz.com

Why should Israel give money to the terrorist mullahs?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

at 1979, Israel owed about a billion dollars to Iran for business conducted before the Iranian revolution. Some of the debt arose from oil purchased by Israel, and a larger amount from the operation of the Trans-Israel oil pipeline and associated port facilities, which were a joint venture between Israeli companies and the National Iranian Oil Company. Israel decided against paying the debt at a meeting in 1979 and granted legal indemnity to Israeli companies which owed it. At least one Israeli bank account is known to hold $250 million owed to Iran.

Since the 1980s, Iran has been suing in the European courts for payment of the debts and has won several cases. However, payment of the debts is legally complicated by the international sanctions against Iran and by the fact that Israel classifies Iran as an enemy state. In May 2015, a Swiss court ordered the Eilat Ashkelon Pipeline Company to pay $1.1 billion to Iran, which Israel refuses to do.

And what countries were those again?

 

[HeyNorm]

That's your claim, not mine. Can't you back up what you say? You said I was a Jew hater. Why? What is the reason for saying that? Why would I be a Jew hater, you fucking piece of shit? We both know why! Because you cannot defend Israeli atrocities, so you try to re-frame the argument into Jew hate. Well, this issue has nothing to do with Jews, but everything to do with your hatred of Muslims. If the shoe fits...

Dude, did you get some under cooked Jew baby? Indigestion?

 

[HeyNorm]

I said the Israeli right is murdering innocent civilians in Gaza. The IDF has already stated they were told by their commanders that no one is innocent in Gaza. No different than Germany's position on the Warsaw Ghetto.

All the fault of Hamas. You keep leaving that part out.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

They are not occupiers, they are the occupied. Or, if you want to go back to the Zionist migration, Zionists are the settlers and Palestinians are the natives.

Care to comment on the following?

"...the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives … ‘Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination …’
- Ahad Ha'am
‘[the Zionists] wax angry towards those who remind them that there is still another people in Eretz Yisrael that has been living there and does not intend at all to leave its place. - Ahad Ha'am in 1914

You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there. And the people already living there were Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs.

Funny lie

 

[Shusha]

According to IHL, it doesn't matter who was sovereign. That land was not Israel's. There isn't a country on earth, including the Israeli High Court, that recognizes Israel's right to that land.

"According to IHL"...

You are not going to get away with that crap with me. Name a document, any document, any part of "IHL" which says what you claim it says. Be specific.

I'll give you a hint. Where is the boundary between Egypt and Israel? Where is the boundary between Jordan and Israel? Which documents legally provide for those boundaries? How were those boundaries determined?

Israel has not only the best sovereign claim to those territories, but the ONLY sovereign claim to those territories. There is no one else who has a claim to those territories. (Golan Heights excepted).

 

[Shusha]

By the Romans? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that or the Holocaust in Europe.

The argument I've been hearing from that side says that the Palestinians have ALWAYS been there. So, they would have had something to do with the Roman expulsion, no? Which side did the Palestinians fight for back then?

 

[Shusha]

The blockade started because Israel didn't like the results of a free and fair election in Gaza. It is punitive punishment for electing Hamas.

The belligerence from Gaza (rockets) started within HOURS of the disengagement. End the belligerence, then the blockade will end.

As far as the settlers, according to IHL, an occupational force cannot change the demographics of an occupied territory by transferring a part of their population (Israeli nationals) into the area that is occupied. So yes, the settlers are illegal.

The sole source of the (incorrect) claim that Israeli Jews can't live in certain places is the GCIV Article 49. Which: 1. Does not apply to non-international conflicts. 2. Applies only to deportees and transferees. 3. Does not apply when there is no occupation (and there is no occupation). 4. Says nothing about "changing the demographics", that is colorful language, but not accurate. And 5. Is applied to Israel uniquely, and not applied to other States where there really is an occupation, which is discrimination against Israel.

UN resolution 242 tells Israel to get the fuck out of the OPT! Have they done that? Fuck no! So no, 242 is not complete! What did I tell you about being obtuse?

242 requires the States in conflict to live in peace, and within secure and recognized boundaries. Done. Check. The peace treaties between the parties to the conflict end the conflict.

You do not see both sides of the argument and I do.

Oh, I do. You know how reasonable I can be. But we have to stop lying, and we have to stop changing and re-wording existing laws to demonize Israel, and we have to stop applying law differently to Israel compared to the rest of the world. It is discrimination. The first step in that is ending the dogmatic recitation of untruths like, "end the occupation".

The only legal way to deal with an occupation, is to end it. There is no other solution. It has been this way since 1948. Why don't you do your homework first on the "laws of occupation", before showing your ignorance on this subject?

There. is. no. occupation. Gaza is the sovereign territory of which State?

 

[Shusha]

2.2 million people in Gaza are not belligerents.

Individually? No, of course they are not.

They are an occupied population, who is not even allowed to have weapons to defend itself.

Defend itself from what? Israel disengaged from Gaza. Between weapons and water, choose water.

An occupied population has no options it has control over. All the control, is in the occupier, which is Israel.

This makes no sense. Are you saying the people of Gaza couldn't (can't) develop an economy? That they can't build ports, and hotels, and desalination plants? That they can't farm and grow food? That they can't create music, and art, and architecture? That they can't develop technology and places of education? Even with BILLIONS of dollars of aide? You sure have a low opinion of the people of Gaza. I think I believe in them quite a bit more than you do. Well, did. Everything changed on October 7.

 

[Shusha]

You can't give, what you don't have! That is not Israel's land to give, it's the land Israel must leave. Not Israel proper, just the OPT.

It is silly in the extreme to insist on the 1949 Armistice Lines as being any sort of "requirement". They were explicitly defined NOT to be a requirement or pre-condition in every. single. legal. document.

 

[sparky]

Defend itself from what?

Zionists

~S~

 

[Shusha]

Zionists

~S~

There hasn't been an Israeli, or a Jew, or a "Zionist" in Gaza since 2005. So what you mean, is that the very idea of a "Zionist" is a threat? Hmmmm...there's a word for that.