"Israeli policies don't affect anti-Semitism"

of course Israel's action has an effect on anti-Semitism, yes there is always minority hard-core anti-Semitic groups but they are plain and simple racists, they also hate blacks & Asians. its only a issue when law abiding middle class 'normal' people start thinking in this way. Israel and the banks are just the thing to help these group recruit from the mass population. and those that bundle anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism only make it worse if you see whats going on in isreal and it makes you angry you need to understand its the Zionist (a political movement) who are the problem, but no you are going to constantly be called an anti-Semitic, which will force some people to become one.
 
Too bad at least 2 billion people disagree with you.

Sorry Dick (may I call you Dick?), but the Bible has no legal significance whatsoever.

Use it to argue a case in court and they put you in a straight jacket and lock you up.
 
Yup, the same 'Jews'

It's one thing to criticize Israels policies, but if you don't believe in Israel should exist, you are not a Jew. Doesn't matter if you have payes, or the hat, or whatnot, but the guys in the picture are the fakest Jews you will ever see.

What a bigoted and moronic thing to say.

These Jews live in Israel. They have no problem with Jews living in Israel. They simply don't believe that Jews should have any sort of soverign entity in the Land of Israel until the Messiah comes. Their beliefs are 100% grounded in the Bible and the Talmud. There was a massive debate among Orthodox Jews before 1948 and after 1948 as to whether Jewish soverignity in the Land of Israel violated Jewish law and tradition.

Your attitudes are disgusting and bigoted.

Defeat67, you're an idiot. I'm not talking about those Jews.

I'm talking about the ones that DOn'T live in ISrael and think Israel should not exist at all.

Do you even know what a bigot is?? It doesn't even apply to what I said.
Go read a dictionary before you use words like that that you don't understand
 
Yup, the same 'Jews'

It's one thing to criticize Israels policies, but if you don't believe in Israel should exist, you are not a Jew. Doesn't matter if you have payes, or the hat, or whatnot, but the guys in the picture are the fakest Jews you will ever see.

Serious question Toast.

Don't these guys have actual religious rationalizations for their view that Israel shouldn't exist? Saying they aren't "Jews" or are fake seems a bit much.

Yes there are some Jews that believe Israel should not have come into existence until the Messiah comes. Many of these Jews are citizens of Israel believe it or not lol.
 
Defeat67, you're an idiot. I'm not talking about those Jews.

I'm talking about the ones that DOn'T live in ISrael and think Israel should not exist at all.

Do you even know what a bigot is?? It doesn't even apply to what I said.
Go read a dictionary before you use words like that that you don't understand

So Jews who don't live in Israel and don't believe that Jews should have an independent and soverign state in the Land of Israel until the Messiah comes, due to well grounded Biblical and Talmudic understanding, are not real Jews?

That's a bigoted and intolerant thing for you to say against I assume to be you fellow Jews.

Since when is their a litmus test on who is a Jew? Since when do certain religious beliefs strip one of their Jewishness? Your ignorance and bigotry is a disgrace to your people.
 
Defeat67, you're an idiot. I'm not talking about those Jews.

I'm talking about the ones that DOn'T live in ISrael and think Israel should not exist at all.

Do you even know what a bigot is?? It doesn't even apply to what I said.
Go read a dictionary before you use words like that that you don't understand

So Jews who don't live in Israel and don't believe that Jews should have an independent and soverign state in the Land of Israel until the Messiah comes, due to well grounded Biblical and Talmudic understanding, are not real Jews?

That's a bigoted and intolerant thing for you to say against I assume to be you fellow Jews.

Since when is their a litmus test on who is a Jew? Since when do certain religious beliefs strip one of their Jewishness? Your ignorance and bigotry is a disgrace to your people.

Why, Herr Weil Ich Weiss, your own Sunni brethren don't believe that the Shia are actually Muslims since their beliefs are somewhat different. Let's not forget how they also don't consider the Ahmadiyyas as Muslims because the Ahmadiyyas don't consider Mohammed as the final prophet but some other man. Regardhess how different Jews think of other Jews, they are not busy blowing up their Houses of Worship like your Sunni brethren do. Now that to me is a bigoted and intolerant thing to do and is a disgrace to Muslims.
 
of course Israel's action has an effect on anti-Semitism, yes there is always minority hard-core anti-Semitic groups but they are plain and simple racists, they also hate blacks & Asians. its only a issue when law abiding middle class 'normal' people start thinking in this way. Israel and the banks are just the thing to help these group recruit from the mass population. and those that bundle anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism only make it worse if you see whats going on in isreal and it makes you angry you need to understand its the Zionist (a political movement) who are the problem, but no you are going to constantly be called an anti-Semitic, which will force some people to become one.
Seems to me it's the Jew-haters who are pushing this "Jews cause anti-Semitism". Hitler and Goebbels made a living out of that claim. Their progeny keep it alive.
 
Seems to me it's the Jew-haters who are pushing this "Jews cause anti-Semitism". Hitler and Goebbels made a living out of that claim. Their progeny keep it alive.

So you believe the Holocaust didn't affect world views about Germans?

Interesting.
 
Try actually reading something about them before become an "authority".

I know all about Naturie Karta and their meetings with Iran. This makes them imbeciles, not false-Jews.

There was a massive debate among Orthodox Jews before Israel was founded and after the founding, as to whether Jewish soveignity in the Land of Israel violated Jewish law before the Messiah came. One large stream of Orthodoxy, I believe they are called Agudath Israel, decided to accept it on the basis of Jewish need due to the Holocaust. But other streams remain totally against Jewish soverignty in the Land of Israel while accepting Jewish settlement in the land and even taking social financial benefits from the State (hypocrites).

Anyone who says all Jews must accept the legitimacy of the State of Israel or they are no longer a Jew, even if their beliefs are grounded in Jewish law, is a bigot and a fool.

Jews don't stop being Jews just because of political beliefs.

OMG! Jews disagreed and didn't murder each other?
No wonder the Jews haven't lost a war since 1948.
 
Too bad at least 2 billion people disagree with you.

Sorry Dick (may I call you Dick?), but the Bible has no legal significance whatsoever.

Use it to argue a case in court and they put you in a straight jacket and lock you up.

You may call me anything you desire if God keeps making the Arabs lose.
I'm happy to do my part.

And I'm still waiting for some Torah explanations that don't make sense in English.
On the other hand, YOU don't make sense in ANY language.
 
Seems to me it's the Jew-haters who are pushing this "Jews cause anti-Semitism". Hitler and Goebbels made a living out of that claim. Their progeny keep it alive.

So you believe the Holocaust didn't affect world views about Germans?

Interesting.
Yes, interesting. Your kind don't believe the Holocaust occured, then you cite the Holocaust. Interesting indeed.
 
Defeat67, you're an idiot. I'm not talking about those Jews.

I'm talking about the ones that DOn'T live in ISrael and think Israel should not exist at all.

Do you even know what a bigot is?? It doesn't even apply to what I said.
Go read a dictionary before you use words like that that you don't understand

So Jews who don't live in Israel and don't believe that Jews should have an independent and soverign state in the Land of Israel until the Messiah comes, due to well grounded Biblical and Talmudic understanding, are not real Jews?

That's a bigoted and intolerant thing for you to say against I assume to be you fellow Jews.

Since when is their a litmus test on who is a Jew? Since when do certain religious beliefs strip one of their Jewishness? Your ignorance and bigotry is a disgrace to your people.

Anti-Israel Jews, INCLUDING the bearded ones, DO NOT have a Biblical argument; they're argument is POLITICAL.
Your continuous use of this strawman proves you never read a about them.

And by the way, LOTS of anti-Israel Jews buy MILLIONS of dollars worth of Israeli Bonds.
You see, MOST if the only want to APPEAR to be politically correct.
 
Anti-Israel Jews, INCLUDING the bearded ones, DO NOT have a Biblical argument; they're argument is POLITICAL.
Your continuous use of this strawman proves you never read a about them.

And by the way, LOTS of anti-Israel Jews buy MILLIONS of dollars worth of Israeli Bonds.
You see, MOST if the only want to APPEAR to be politically correct.

Non-Zionist and anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews have a very grounded Biblical and Talmudic argument for their beliefs.

Haredim and Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many different ideological reasons for religious opposition to Zionism; however, the main two are most widely expressed by Hasidim and Lithuanian Haredeim.

Historically, many dynasties in Hasidism have expressed anti-Zionist opinions because of the 'Three Oaths'. The Talmud, in Ketubot 111a, mentions that the Jewish people have been bound by three oaths: 1) not to ascend to Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel) as a group using force; 2) not to rebel against the nations of the world; and 3) that the nations of the world would not persecute the nation of Israel excessively.[33] Some consider the establishment of the State of Israel to be a violation of these oaths. The first Hasidic anti-Zionist movement was Agudath Israel, established in Poland in 1912.[34] Hareidi groups and people actively and publicly opposing Zionism are Satmar,[35] Toldos Aharon,[36] Neturei Karta.[35]

Lithuanian Haredim, sometimes called mitnagdim, take a different approach to their beliefs from their Hassidic counterparts. Lithuanian religious Jews oppose the state not because of the three oaths midrash but because they feel that Zionism epitomizes secularity and Jewish desire to be void of Torah. Many Lithuanian religious Jews, such as Rabbi Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, have been involved with Zionist politics as Israel progressively becomes more Jewish-oriented.[citation needed]

Amongst the Ashkenazi Orthodox rabbinical leadership, religious Zionists form a minority.[37] Generally speaking, most Sephardi Haredi authorities have never shared the anti-Zionism of their Ashkenazi counterparts, and some (such as the late Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu) are strongly affiliated with Religious Zionism, taking a similar stance to the Hardal movements.[citation needed]. However, there are anti-Zionist elements in the Sefardic communities as well. It is known that the late Baba Sali supported and celebrated the anti-Zionist views of the Satmar Rebbe

Three Oaths - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anti-Zionist arguments that consider the Three Oaths[edit]

An overview of some of the primary claims made by anti-Zionists concerning the Three Oaths:
Although the Three Oaths are Aggadic in style, precedent shows when Aggadic material in the Talmud presents novel legal material (as opposed to punishments and rewards relating to legal material expounded elsewhere in the Talmud), that material is codified as halacha, unless there is a specific reason not to.[41]
Even if the oaths are to be seen as decrees, the existence of the modern State of Israel does not constitute proof that the decree has ended, because the state's future is still uncertain.[25]
The Satmar Rebbe, in his book Vayoel Moshe maintains that Maimonides spoke of the Three Oaths as binding. (See Modern Debate on the Appropriate Understanding of Maimonides above)
The oaths are between the Jewish people and God, and the gentiles and God respectively. The fact that the gentiles violated their oath does not tacitly mean that the Jewish people are free to do so as well. Historically, atrocities prior to the Holocaust have generally not prompted rabbinic encouragement of mass immigration to Israel, though there have been some notable exceptions.[42][43]
Living in Eretz Yisroel is not a general mitzvah for the Jews collectively, only individuals (see discussion of Rashbash (Solomon ben Simon Duran) in Nachmanides section above).
The Balfour Declaration never covered the Oaths.
The State of Israel has expanded its borders beyond the areas mandated by the UN and have thus expanded the borders without the permission of the nations.
The United Nations approval of the establishment of the State of Israel does not constitute permission from the nations of the world. The Halacha attaches no significant value to the United Nations. The relevant approval should be that of some of the other people who live in the land (in this instance, the Palestinian Arabs).[44]
In response to the Zionists' use of Rabbi Chaim Vital (see above), the Satmar Rebbe argued that Vital's remarks refer not to the Three Oaths incumbent on the Jewish people, but to God's oath not to redeem the Jewish people unless they repent out of love. This oath lasts a thousand years; after that point even repentance out of fear can bring the redemption.[45]
In response to questions of why God would allow the Zionists some measure of success if Zionism is against the Talmud; anti-Zionist religious Jews respond with the following; "The fallacy of the argument lies in the undeniable fact that there is evil in this world. Hashem allows people free will to choose to do wrong, and even to be successful in doing wrong on a large scale. ... Why Hashem decided to grant their efforts some degree of success is one of the mysteries of our era. But the fact that they succeeded is no more a proof that they were doing the right thing, than is the fact that the Germans succeeded in killing six million Jews a proof that they were doing the right thing."[46]

Many Haredim who subscribe to the anti-Zionist view still immigrate to the Land of Israel. Their rationalization is that they do so only as individuals and families, but not as members of the organized mass-immigration, and that they come to the Land solely to live there, not in order to conquer it or rule over it. Such Haredim accordingly do not believe themselves to be in violation of the Three Oaths.
 
The kind who try to convince the world that Jews cause all the ills of the world.

So now you are lying about me? Good job. I hope you're proud of your lies.

I don't subscribe to such idiocy and I scold folks who do.
 
15th post
"Although the Three Oaths are Aggadic in style, precedent shows when Aggadic material in the Talmud presents novel legal material (as opposed to punishments and rewards relating to legal material expounded elsewhere in the Talmud), that material is codified as halacha, unless there is a specific reason not to.[41]
"
This oath lasts a thousand years; after that point even repentance out of fear can bring the redemption.[45]

Aggadata...cool!

It's been about a year since I've read this.
Israel was chosen by the UN, not the survivors.
The survivors would have gone to America if they had the choise.
Guess which country didn't want such an influx of Jews?
Yep...America.
Jews have a philosophy...If it fails, God doesn't want it to succeed.
Guess what? It hasn't failed.

Jews disagree and don't kill each other...aren't you jealous?
 
"Although the Three Oaths are Aggadic in style, precedent shows when Aggadic material in the Talmud presents novel legal material (as opposed to punishments and rewards relating to legal material expounded elsewhere in the Talmud), that material is codified as halacha, unless there is a specific reason not to.[41]
"
This oath lasts a thousand years; after that point even repentance out of fear can bring the redemption.[45]

Aggadata...cool!

It's been about a year since I've read this.
Israel was chosen by the UN, not the survivors.
The survivors would have gone to America if they had the choise.
Guess which country didn't want such an influx of Jews?
Yep...America.
Jews have a philosophy...If it fails, God doesn't want it to succeed.
Guess what? It hasn't failed.

Jews disagree and don't kill each other...aren't you jealous?

Tell that to Yitzhak Rabin.
 
"Although the Three Oaths are Aggadic in style, precedent shows when Aggadic material in the Talmud presents novel legal material (as opposed to punishments and rewards relating to legal material expounded elsewhere in the Talmud), that material is codified as halacha, unless there is a specific reason not to.[41]
"
This oath lasts a thousand years; after that point even repentance out of fear can bring the redemption.[45]

Aggadata...cool!

It's been about a year since I've read this.
Israel was chosen by the UN, not the survivors.
The survivors would have gone to America if they had the choise.
Guess which country didn't want such an influx of Jews?
Yep...America.
Jews have a philosophy...If it fails, God doesn't want it to succeed.
Guess what? It hasn't failed.

Jews disagree and don't kill each other...aren't you jealous?

Tell that to Yitzhak Rabin.

My favorite strawman.
ONE Jew is assassinated by ONE Jew and we pretty much went into a universal state of mourning over such a horrific act.
In the meanwhile Muslims slaughter Muslims en-masse for DECADES and jump for joy in public.
 
Back
Top Bottom