Israel Snubs U.S.

[Orange_Juice]

The expansionist Israel state is again on the march, I see

From the UK Independent:

Israel has has taken a decisive first step towards reviving a controversial plan for a Jewish settlement in the West Bank which it was forced to withdraw two years ago under pressure from the US.


The military's civil administration has announced plans to go ahead with the construction of at least 20 homes in the Jordan Valley for settlers evacuated from the Gaza Strip in 2005.

Peace Now, which campaigns against settlement, believes the move is part of a larger plan which could mean the establishment of about 100 homes in Maskiot, in the Jordan Valley.

The plan, initially approved by the then Defence Minister, Amir Peretz, in 2006, ended up being shelved after a vigorous protest by the US State Department. The US made no immediate comment on the revival of the plan as Palestinian and Israeli negotiators struggle to fulfil George Bush's aspiration of an outline agreement on a two-state solution by the end of the year.

 

[editec]

I SO don't get why the Israeli government insists on putting settlements in the PA lands.

Do they WANT those Israeli to be targets for radical Arabs!?

I suspect that the population Israeli, like the USA is ambivilant about what it really wants.

I don't follow polling of the Isreali people, but I would not be surprised to learn that their population is as divided on these issues as the US population seems to be.

Anyone have any credible information about Isreali sentiments?

 

[Reality]

I SO don't get why the Israeli government insists on putting settlements in the PA lands.

Do they WANT those Israeli to be targets for radical Arabs!?

I suspect that the population Israeli, like the USA is ambivilant about what it really wants.

I don't follow polling of the Isreali people, but I would not be surprised to learn that their population is as divided on these issues as the US population seems to be.

Anyone have any credible information about Isreali sentiments?

Best I could do:

Among Israelis 44% support and 54% oppose a Palestinian state in the entirety of “Judea, Samaria” and the Gaza Strip except for several large blocks of settlements in 3% of the West Bank which will be annexed to Israel. Israel will evacuate all other settlements, and the Palestinians will receive in return territory of similar size along the Gaza Strip. In June 2006, 47% of the Israelis supported this component while 47% opposed it.

Survey Research Unit

 

[jillian]

I SO don't get why the Israeli government insists on putting settlements in the PA lands.

Do they WANT those Israeli to be targets for radical Arabs!?

I suspect that the population Israeli, like the USA is ambivilant about what it really wants.

I don't follow polling of the Isreali people, but I would not be surprised to learn that their population is as divided on these issues as the US population seems to be.

Anyone have any credible information about Isreali sentiments?

Perhaps you should read the actual facts instead of the anti-Israel spin?

I have no doubt that Israel will do things to pressure a settlement, but on the other hand, from the same article:

Government sources suggested the Defence Minister, Ehud Barak, had not yet given his final approval, and Mark Regev, spokesman for Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, said no plans had been submitted to his office. He said that Israel would honour its commitment "not to build new settlements, nor to outwardly expand existing ones".

Israel relaunches plan for West Bank settlement in snub to US - Middle East, World - The Independent


BTW, before you pounce, I don't think there should be settlements either.

 

[jillian]

The expansionist Israel state is again on the march, I see

From the UK Independent:

When you post an article, post a link please.

 

[Shogun]

I SO don't get why the Israeli government insists on putting settlements in the PA lands.

Do they WANT those Israeli to be targets for radical Arabs!?

I suspect that the population Israeli, like the USA is ambivilant about what it really wants.

I don't follow polling of the Isreali people, but I would not be surprised to learn that their population is as divided on these issues as the US population seems to be.

Anyone have any credible information about Isreali sentiments?

absolutely. It perpetuated the Martyr excuse for expansionism.

 

[editec]

Perhaps you should read the actual facts instead of the anti-Israel spin?

Not a bad idea.

I have no doubt that Israel will do things to pressure a settlement, but on the other hand, from the same article:

Put pressure on? Yeah, you see... that's exactly what I don't get.

How about just flat out saying "DON'T DO IT."

Israel relaunches plan for West Bank settlement in snub to US - Middle East, World - The Independent


BTW, before you pounce, I don't think there should be settlements either.[/quote]

I had no plan to pounce.

I don't presume to know your positions on things until you tell me what they are pretty damned specifically since it is clear to me that you think in thoughtful naunces no less than I and other here usually do.

Isn't that obvious by now?

And If I think somebody is an unthinking partisan given to excessive blather, I'm reasonably sure they'll hang themselves without my help, Jill.

I may sell them rope, though.

Freedom of speech.

It's a double edged sword.

 

[jillian]

Not a bad idea.[/Q?UOTE]

It should happen more often.

Put pressure on? Yeah, you see... that's exactly what I don't get.

How about just flat out saying "DON'T DO IT."

I think in negotiating, everyone takes harder lines when they're not getting movement. Happens in litigation all the time. When there's movement, stated positions get modified.

I had no plan to pounce.

I don't presume to know your positions on things until you tell me what they are pretty damned specifically since it is clear to me that you think in thoughtful naunces no less than I and other here usually do.

Isn't that obvious by now?

And If I think somebody is an unthinking partisan given to excessive blather, I'm reasonably sure they'll hang themselves without my help, Jill.

I may sell them rope, though.

Freedom of speech.

It's a double edged sword.

Heh... fair enough to all that. Thank you for the compliment. Backatcha.

 

[editec]

Okay...thanks to Jill's link I got to read the article.

Putting aside the obvious editorial bias one finds in the article, it DOES look like the Isreali government is giving support to the establishment of these settlements.

Assuming this is not pure disinformation..

The military's civil administration has announced plans to go ahead with the construction of at least 20 homes in the Jordan Valley for settlers evacuated from the Gaza Strip in 2005.

I have to say I do not understand why on earth the Israeli government does this sort of thing.

THIS is the kind of stupid provocative policy that makes people (like many on this board) think that Isreal is not AT ALL serious about finding a path to peace, and let's face it, it drives the Palestinians justifiably crazy, too.

I realize that Israel is not a monolithic single minded society, but perhaps others here (and world wide) are not yet fully aware that there is a battle raging for the soul of Isreal, just as there is a battle raging for the soul of the USA.

And of course, we all know that events like this are fodder for the Jew Haters, no less than many of Bush's stupid provocative policies are fodder for America Haters world wide.

 

[Orange_Juice]

When you post an article, post a link please.

Are you not an administrator? Don't you know the rules for posting links?

I'm almost there, almost

 

[Orange_Juice]

Are you not an administrator? Don't you know the rules for posting links?

I'm almost there, almost

Actucally, I am there now

 

[Orange_Juice]

Do people actually think this is something new? This is just yet another example of what has been happening continously for years. Funny thing is, you can't find it in the American press. Even when the UK government comes out loudly denouncing more settlements the American media totally ignores it

 

[jillian]

Best I could do:


Survey Research Unit

And? I'm surprised the numbers are as high as they are given Judea/Samaria contains Jerusalem. Or is there something else you're trying to say that I'm missing?

 

[jillian]

Are you not an administrator? Don't you know the rules for posting links?

I'm almost there, almost

Nope... Gunny is administrator. I'm a moderator.

And you were there after 16 posts, I believe.

 

[jillian]

Do people actually think this is something new? This is just yet another example of what has been happening continously for years. Funny thing is, you can't find it in the American press. Even when the UK government comes out loudly denouncing more settlements the American media totally ignores it

Because someone who calls Israel an "expansionist" state is soooooooooo credible. The only times Israel has "expanded" is when it's been attacked.

So, without the revision of history, perhaps there ARE things that can be discussed if the anti-Israel contingent can control themselves.

 

[Shogun]

thank god someone thought to ARM palis with video cameras to combat the usual Scarlet A bullshit.

Israeli soldier filmed shooting at Palestinian
Man says he was shot in toe with rubber bullet while bound, blindfolded

Israel has been building the separation barrier since 2002, saying it's a temporary defense against Palestinian attackers. However, the barrier extends into the West Bank, incorporating Jewish settlement blocs and seizing land from Palestinian villages, prompting claims it's a land grab and an attempt by Israel to draw its border unilaterally.

Israeli filmed shooting at Palestinian - Israel-Palestinians - MSNBC.com

 

[editec]

Israel has been building the separation barrier since 2002, saying it's a temporary defense against Palestinian attackers.

Can't blame them for trying, I suppose. Won't work, of course, but it might marginally help. the question is does it help more than it hurts?

However, the barrier extends into the West Bank, incorporating Jewish settlement blocs and seizing land from Palestinian villages, prompting claims it's a land grab and an attempt by Israel to draw its border unilaterally.

And doing that is WRONG, of course.

 

[Orange_Juice]

Because someone who calls Israel an "expansionist" state is soooooooooo credible. The only times Israel has "expanded" is when it's been attacked.

So, without the revision of history, perhaps there ARE things that can be discussed if the anti-Israel contingent can control themselves.

The settlements are expansions. There is no way around that. Israel was attacked in 1967? I thought the Isareli attacked the Eqyptain water company before that starting the hostilities?

 

[jillian]

Can't blame them for trying, I suppose. Won't work, of course, but it might marginally help. the question is does it help more than it hurts?



And doing that is WRONG, of course.

Does it help more than it hurts? I have mixed feelings about that, actually. I think it helps in Israel's safety, but hurts in terms of world perception. On the other hand, if the things I read on this board are indicative of where world perception is, it would only be pacified by Israel being yet another Arab country. So on that level, Israel really isn't going to care to much what people think who want to see it destroyed, IMO.

As for the "fence", it's mostly gate, anyway... and they have a right to defend their borders. Even if they're wrong, Shogie doesn't get offended by Egypt's border fence. Nor does he mind Jews being killed by palestinians. The funny thing is that Abbas is for a two-state solution, but palestinian propagandists like Shogie want an Arab Israel.

I'm sure that would work out very well for the Jews there.

 

[Shogun]

Can't blame them for trying, I suppose. Won't work, of course, but it might marginally help. the question is does it help more than it hurts?



And doing that is WRONG, of course.

But you wont hear the local enablers admitting as much so much as blaming jooo haters for pointing out the expansion.

and yes, I can blame them for trying when the tactic is using a wall to creep out more and more land. Google nbc nightly news for 7/23/08, i believe, and watch their story about these cams.

WATCH as the Israeli military protects ISRAELIS who are squatting on some pali land. I realize video lenses are antisemetic but the evidence is available for those who give a damn about more than an ethnic common denominator.