Israel’s ‘Right to Exist’

[Sunni Man]

GHook93 you are very naive about Palestinians assimulating into Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudia Arabia, or other Arab countries.

True they all speak Arabic and have the same religion and basic culture.

But in all of those countries in the Middle East, bloodlines and heredity mean everything.

Known as tribalism, which involves clans and sub clans. It involves many generations of marriage and intermarriage.

So to have a large non related group of people move into an area and be instantly assimulated isn't going to happen.

 

[auditor0007]

PubliusInfinitum,


Yeah it's true I resent mass murderers and their sychophants on the ideological left that promote their interests.

The Palestinians are the scourge of the earth... Their 'plight' is a result of THEIR CHOICES... THEIR ACTIONS AND THE MASS MURDER OF INNOCENTS...

The fact is, that IF the Palestinians DECIDED TO STOP KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE TODAY... then they'd enjoy peace in their own state... TODAY!

They're the ones that bring war and that means they're the only ones that can stop war... and the misdirection of blaming of Israel is never going to change that OR establish peace.

The truth is so simple that it becomes impossible to comprehend.

 

[Sunni Man]

I saw NO truth??

Just a bunch of lies by the supporters of IsraHell and the ZioNazi pukes

 

[mightypeon]

Actually, the "Barbarian mongols" are one of the funny cases where history was written by the loosers.
The Mongol policy was to demand surrender, and, if that was refused, beat their opponents into submission. If their opponents put up a very hard fight, or if they attacked them after "faking" a surrender, their opponents were executed.

A number of the Russian principalities like Ryazan or Kiev fought them, and lost. Novgorod on the other hand (later also Muscovy) surrendered and gained fairly wide ranging autonomy.
On an even more intersting Sidenote, Dschingis Khan actually had a valid Casus Belli for his inner Mongol (Other khan stole and raped his wife), Chinese (ambassadors seriously maltreated, Chinese supported his enemies and were caught) and Khwarezmian (Local beylick killed about 100 Mongols from a trade expedition in some particularly nasty ways) campaigns.

When the Islamic Khwarezmian (and later the Kalifate of Bagdad) asked other moslem states to support them in defense of Islam, the help was refused, with the Muslim theologists claiming that the "Mongols" had due cause and that they were "fighting against the King/Sultan/Kalif in question not against Islam".

Apart from Hulagu Khan, (who was not a very pleasant person anyway), most Mongols were very tolerant for the time they lived in.
Batu Khan allowed widespread autonomy for the Russian orthodox church, provided they dont proselytyse amongst mongols, the later Crimean Khanate was propably the only Muslim state with a significant alcohol industry.

The early Crusaders for example, did usually not ask for a surrender (much less actually respecting it if it happened) and often massacared their "non Christian" opposition regardless of their particular conduct.

The later crusaders asked for surrenders but did not take them serious, like in the battle of Adrianople.

Considering Mongols in the Holy land, the Mongols advanced quite a bit, but the Battle of Ain Jalut ended their advance and prevented any serious efforts of cooperating with the remaining Crusaders.

 

[GHook93]

GHook93 you are very naive about Palestinians assimulating into Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudia Arabia, or other Arab countries.

True they all speak Arabic and have the same religion and basic culture.

But in all of those countries in the Middle East, bloodlines and heredity mean everything.

Known as tribalism, which involves clans and sub clans. It involves many generations of marriage and intermarriage.

So to have a large non related group of people move into an area and be instantly assimulated isn't going to happen.

True, but you under-estimate the ability to assimulate of people share common language, religion, ethnicity and culture. As-is the refugees are never going to be welcomed into Israel and really I doubt when Palestine receives its independence are they going to welcome them either! Best bet is that vastly undense Arab countries, Saudia Arabia, Libya, Syria, Iraq Yemen, Oman etc resettle the refugees along with willing and able Muslim, European and Western countries.

 

[morpheus]

Not necessarily.

Yes necessarily.

Any land a Jew stood on when the partition was official they owned outright and leagally.

Arabs rejected teh partition and therefore had NO leagal status, so they can't claim they 'owned' anything, and Jews never 'forced them out' of anything, in fact Jews begged them to stay.

Xenophon, you have some serious misconceptions on the subject of international law.

First, saying that the Palestinians' land was stolen from them is just a propaganda slogan with no basis in fact or logic.

I suppose all those Palestinians who remember being driven off their land (including those who have won cases in Israel's supreme court, but have yet to receive any compensation), are only hallucinating.

Second, the fact that you may not think religion is a sufficient reason for the Palestinians' actions is not a reasonable basis for assuming that they don't think it is. If you read the Hamas Covenant, it is clear that for Hamas, religion is the whole reason for their actions and that economic and political motivations play no part in their motivation, goofy blather about stolen land and poverty is just used by them to motivate some Palestinians who might not share their religious ardor.

It's rather goofy and naive to believe that their sole motivation is religious.

The people in th refugee camps are not homeless, obviously, they live in houses or apartments and in the territories the camps now have a wide range of housing facilities ranging from luxury homes and and apartments for the political elite who still want to live among their constituents to essentially working class housing on a par with such housing in the region. Conditions in some Arab countries are much harsher for these people, but one might ask why, three generations later, they are still in camps. Why haven't they integrated in the population of the country they have been living in for three generations or moved somewhere else? There are two reasons. First UNWRA supports the refugees while they remain in the camps and since UNWRA hires from the local population and makes purchases locally when possible, maintaining the people in the camps is a boost to the local economy. If these people were to become citizens of the host country, they would lose the subsidies and benefits they get from UNWRA and the local economy would lose those jobs and that flow of cash.

Actually, the majority of Palestinian refugees living in Jordan are now Jordanian citizens, and thus integrated into Jordanian society.

The other reason they are kept in these camps is that this allows the anti Israeli fanaticism that is a core value of Arab culture to use propaganda terms like homeless and ghetto in their efforts to drive anti Israeli sentiment.

I suppose anti-Israeli sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with the following:

• Israel's continuing occupation of the post-1967 lands, which are not internationally recognized as sovereign Israeli territory, not even by the United States
• Illegal Israeli settlements in the post-1967 occupied lands, according to international law
• Subsequent Israeli governments avoiding commitment to a Palestinian state
• The flawed autonomy afforded to Palestinian authorities including -but not limited to- the West Bank barrier wall built for "security purposes" but instead of being built along the walls of Israel proper (1967 border), it was built deep inside the West Bank cutting off Palestinians from other Palestinians
• Grossly disproportionate military action and sanctions against Gaza for Hamas air strikes into Israel proper

The Palestinians are the scourge of the earth... Their 'plight' is a result of THEIR CHOICES... THEIR ACTIONS AND THE MASS MURDER OF INNOCENTS...

The fact is, that IF the Palestinians DECIDED TO STOP KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE TODAY... then they'd enjoy peace in their own state... TODAY!

They're the ones that bring war and that means they're the only ones that can stop war... and the misdirection of blaming of Israel is never going to change that OR establish peace.

Wrong. The ball is in Israel's court.