Israel destroys el-Wafa hospital as staff evacuates all patients

[Ibentoken]

not exactly true----they can be targeted if they are being used
as a military base-----as a fortress or as a place to store weapons.

an interesting factoid----is that the hospital is described as
a REHAB thing. There is a huge difference between rehab and
acute care. Persons in need of acute care are not in rehab and
such persons are very easily evacuated.----they can be shipped to
just about anywhere with walls and a roof. I did come across something
about the hospital being notified of an impending bomb many days
ago. (sorry---I did not copy) I also came across something about the
hospital holding LOTS of ISM persons as human shields. Sorry---I did not
copy. The whole thing begins to smell of islamo Nazi intrigue. Of all the
places-----why would ISM people feel a need to shield a medical facility which is
storing rehab patients? I am surprised that no one (at least I have not
found anyone) commented on these facts. ISM people are volunteers
over there to HELP-------it seems to me that in the present circumstances----
Gazans have a lot more need than a bunch of young people acting as shields
for------the NOT SICK ------

No they cannot. You cannot target a hospital under any conditions.

It happened. Move on.

 

[Lipush]

God bless the Israeli soldiers and the Israeli people.

Be'ezrat HaShem, we will gain glorious victory over Hamas.

 

[toastman]

Why do you support terrorists who hide behind children and the infirm?

Why don't you prove that has occurred?

BTW, resistance is not terrorism.

Call it whatever you want, but every timee they launch rockets, Israel is going to retaliate.

 

[Hollie]

BTW, Islamic terrorists from Gaza who fire rockets at Israeli cities is what we, in the grown up world, call terrorism. They will be squashed like the maggots they are.

However, you are correct in one instance; resistance, (to Islamic terrorism), is not a crime.

When it comes to what Israel is doing, it's not resistance, it's aggression.

The highest crime a nation could commit.

No different than Hitler going into Poland.

Nonsense.

You islamist terrorist sympathizers / rabid Jooooo haters only understand satiating your own hate. Israel unilateraly withdrew from Gaza, and it became a terrorist staging ground for carrying out attacks against Israel and governed by a militant group that calls for Israel's destruction.

Eight years, thousands of rockets rained upon Israel from Hamas--and the world did nothing.

And when Israel finally said "enough" and fought back, as any nation would do to protect her citizens, Israel is condemned.

Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon (which it again entered to stop attacks against her citizens) and the UN promised to ensure Hezbollah would not rearm. As in 1987, the UN broke its trust, and Hezbollah is now rearmed with missiles that can strike Tel Aviv.

Iran continues to call for the destruction of "the Zionist regime" while enriching uranium for its nuclear program (aka "the bomb"), and the world does nothing.

After 50 years of wars, attacks, suicide bombings, Arab antisemitic media, etc., Israel feels (rightly) that its existence remains in peril in a world either indifferent or outfight antagonistic. The fight for Israeli Independence when the world stood by and watched as 5 Arab armies not only threatened but act to "push the Jews into the Sea" has not faded.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside

The night of the shelling, Alashi asked me to inquire with the IDF why they fired on the hospital. When I told him they said it was fired on because it was within 100 meters of a rocket site, but they knew the hospital itself was clean of munitions he said, “My authority, my control is within my premises, it is my hospital. I cannot control what people do 100 meters from me.” He reiterated, “My control is my hospital, my staff my patients. I have nothing to do with what happens 100 meters from the hospital,” adding “A hospital should not be involved in any conflict according to Geneva law.”

According to*International Humanitarian Law (IHL) hospitals are protected sites.*Article 19 of the Fourth Geneva Convention*also states:*“The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit…acts harmful to the enemy.” The Geneva Convention also requires “a reasonable time limit,” for allowing an evacuation. If a hospital is used to launch weapons, under IHL it can only be targeted when there is an imminent strike originating from the location. Even storing caches of weapons do not meet international law’s stringent threshold for firing on humanitarian sites.

Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside | Mondoweiss

 

[flacaltenn]

Can you tell me why any American would give a shit about the muslims after what happened to us, and by who did it, after 9/11?

Because we are not at war with Muslims?? bin Laden declared war on the US and we ignored that warning. 1200 guys living in caves and recruiting zealots. NOT the family running a market stall in Amman and observing Ramadan..

How would you know if we can't PROFILE them?

You're kidding right? You gonna indict every Muslim because you don't have Jack Bauer interrogating them with a rifle butt? Where is the presumption of innocence in that? Arabs are victimized by the VALUES of their leadership. Not privvy to the basic freedoms that we hold, not motivated by desires for progress and commerce in general. Thus -- they expect very little from government or leadership and dont really care HOW the leadership maintains their power.

The family at the Amman market doesn't need drone surveillance. Save that crap for their "leadership" if they have been observed to violate law and decency..

 

[flacaltenn]

Orders to evacuate were not lawful and attacks on the hospital were war crimes.

Israel keeps showing the world she has no regard for the rules of war, which she keeps blatantly violating.

As for orders to evacuate, they are inadequate when there is nowhere safely to evacuate and do not shield any unlawful attacks from claims of illegality.

We see these principles of law discussed by HRW.


Israel/Palestine: Unlawful Israeli Airstrikes Kill Civilians

Gaza) – Israeli air attacks in Gaza investigated by Human Rights Watch have been targeting apparent civilian structures and killing civilians in violation of the laws of war.*Israel*should end unlawful attacks that do not target military objectives and may be intended as collective punishment or broadly to destroy civilian property. Deliberate or reckless attacks violating the laws of war are war crimes, Human Rights Watch said.

Civilian structures such as residential homes become lawful targets only when they are being used for military purposes. While the laws of war encourage the use of effective advance warnings of attacks to minimize civilian casualties, providing warnings does not make an otherwise unlawful attack lawful.


For warnings to be effective, civilians need adequate time to leave and go to a place of safety before an attack. In several cases Human Rights Watch investigated, Israel gave warnings, but carried out the attack within five minutes or less. Given that Gaza has no bomb shelters, civilians realistically often have no place to flee.

Israel/Palestine: Unlawful Israeli Airstrikes Kill Civilians | Human Rights Watch

Can you tell me why any American would give a shit about the muslims after what happened to us, and by who did it, after 9/11?

Because we are not at war with Muslims?? bin Laden declared war on the US and we ignored that warning. 1200 guys living in caves and recruiting zealots. NOT the family running a market stall in Amman and observing Ramadan.. Israelis generally understand that better than Americans. That's why this rehab facility was warned to evacuate.

That bolded part above begs a question... WHY don't the folks of Gaza have emergency shelters and a "place to flee to" Sherri ???? Where do ISRAELIS "flee to" when they are under attack ???

Why is the IDF finding miles of tunnels under Gaza designed to move militants and weapons, and YET their CITIZENS that they govern --- have no place to flee?

 

[flacaltenn]

You cannot target hospitals for any reason. They are off limits.

It doesn't matter what excuse you make up, targeting them is a war crime.

Of course you can target a hospital if there is an entrance to a military tunnel in the basement. And/Or if there is a missile building operation in the back room.. The hospital staff would not be able to say no to their government. So --- if the Israelis CONTINUE to pound that Rehab facility -- they must KNOW they have a valid reason to make it a military target..

They are not stupid enough to put a SMALL 40 bed Rehab facility on the target list just for spite. Think there aren't forward observers on the streets of Gaza right now?? They know why that facility is on the target list.. They don't HAVE to tell you why right at the moment.

Note the DATE on the Report below...

*Advertisement

Jan. 12, 2009 | 2:22 AM

Senior Hamas officials in Gaza are hiding out in a "bunker" built by Israel, intelligence officials suspect: Many are believed to be in the basements of the Shifa Hospital complex in Gaza City, which was refurbished during Israel's occupation of the Gaza Strip.

Shifa, the coastal strip's largest hospital, was built while Gaza was under Egyptian rule, before 1967.

The Israeli civil administration in the territories constructed the hospital complex's Building Number 2, which has a large cement basement that housed the hospital's laundry and various administrative services.

During a cabinet meeting a week ago, Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin said senior Hamas officials found refuge in the hospital basement because they know Israel would not target it, due to the patients in the upper floors. Palestinian sources told Haaretz that not all the senior Hamas leaders are hiding in one place.

Rather, they have spread out, and some are constantly changing locations. Some of the bunkers they are using were linked by tunnels Hamas built in recent years.

Naaaawwwww.. Hamas leadership wouldn't be hiding out under a HOSPITAL !!! WOULD THEY???

Just like no could understand why FATAH shelled and laid seige to a major UNIVERSITY in Gaza during THEIR bloody struggle in the crowded streets..

Bloody fighting between Hamas and Fatah continues in Gaza | The Electronic Intifada

In addition, sources reported that the presidential security forces and other members of the national security forces, “in addition to other security forces”, broke into the Islamic University in Gaza City on Thursday night.

The sources said that, according to the Palestinian media, “the forces found huge quantities of arms and explosives in the university.” The sources added, “These weapons and explosives were used by the Hamas movement”

You may make all the accusations and excuses you want and PARROT them til you turn blue --- but Hamas is STILL hiding their military leadership under civilian targets at this moment...

 

[proudveteran06]

Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside

The night of the shelling, Alashi asked me to inquire with the IDF why they fired on the hospital. When I told him they said it was fired on because it was within 100 meters of a rocket site, but they knew the hospital itself was clean of munitions he said, “My authority, my control is within my premises, it is my hospital. I cannot control what people do 100 meters from me.” He reiterated, “My control is my hospital, my staff my patients. I have nothing to do with what happens 100 meters from the hospital,” adding “A hospital should not be involved in any conflict according to Geneva law.”

According to*International Humanitarian Law (IHL) hospitals are protected sites.*Article 19 of the Fourth Geneva Convention*also states:*“The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit…acts harmful to the enemy.” The Geneva Convention also requires “a reasonable time limit,” for allowing an evacuation. If a hospital is used to launch weapons, under IHL it can only be targeted when there is an imminent strike originating from the location. Even storing caches of weapons do not meet international law’s stringent threshold for firing on humanitarian sites.

Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside | Mondoweiss

Yawn..... Ask the " Christian" why Hamas didn't accept Egypt's offer for a mutual cease fire and why they resumed immediately after that five hour window and there will be no response.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside

The night of the shelling, Alashi asked me to inquire with the IDF why they fired on the hospital. When I told him they said it was fired on because it was within 100 meters of a rocket site, but they knew the hospital itself was clean of munitions he said, “My authority, my control is within my premises, it is my hospital. I cannot control what people do 100 meters from me.” He reiterated, “My control is my hospital, my staff my patients. I have nothing to do with what happens 100 meters from the hospital,” adding “A hospital should not be involved in any conflict according to Geneva law.”

According to*International Humanitarian Law (IHL) hospitals are protected sites.*Article 19 of the Fourth Geneva Convention*also states:*“The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit…acts harmful to the enemy.” The Geneva Convention also requires “a reasonable time limit,” for allowing an evacuation. If a hospital is used to launch weapons, under IHL it can only be targeted when there is an imminent strike originating from the location. Even storing caches of weapons do not meet international law’s stringent threshold for firing on humanitarian sites.

Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside | Mondoweiss

Yawn..... Ask the " Christian" why Hamas didn't accept Egypt's offer for a mutual cease fire and why they resumed immediately after that five hour window and there will be no response.

A ceasefire requires parties agree on terms and so far there is no ceasefire agreed to by the parties. Egypt is not a party, a ceasefire requires an agreement between Hamas and Israel. Does the Zionist understand now?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

We have the explanation of why the IDF shelled the hospital, they claim rockets were being launched from nearby. But that is not a justification for Israel to deliberately bomb the hospital, it was reportedly attacked on 15 separate occasions. Both forcing the evacuation and bombing the hospital were unlawful acts under The Fourth Geneva Convention.

You cannot target hospitals for any reason. They are off limits.

It doesn't matter what excuse you make up, targeting them is a war crime.

Of course you can target a hospital if there is an entrance to a military tunnel in the basement. And/Or if there is a missile building operation in the back room.. The hospital staff would not be able to say no to their government. So --- if the Israelis CONTINUE to pound that Rehab facility -- they must KNOW they have a valid reason to make it a military target..

They are not stupid enough to put a SMALL 40 bed Rehab facility on the target list just for spite. Think there aren't forward observers on the streets of Gaza right now?? They know why that facility is on the target list.. They don't HAVE to tell you why right at the moment.

Note the DATE on the Report below...

*Advertisement

Jan. 12, 2009 | 2:22 AM

Senior Hamas officials in Gaza are hiding out in a "bunker" built by Israel, intelligence officials suspect: Many are believed to be in the basements of the Shifa Hospital complex in Gaza City, which was refurbished during Israel's occupation of the Gaza Strip.

Shifa, the coastal strip's largest hospital, was built while Gaza was under Egyptian rule, before 1967.

The Israeli civil administration in the territories constructed the hospital complex's Building Number 2, which has a large cement basement that housed the hospital's laundry and various administrative services.

During a cabinet meeting a week ago, Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin said senior Hamas officials found refuge in the hospital basement because they know Israel would not target it, due to the patients in the upper floors. Palestinian sources told Haaretz that not all the senior Hamas leaders are hiding in one place.

Rather, they have spread out, and some are constantly changing locations. Some of the bunkers they are using were linked by tunnels Hamas built in recent years.

Naaaawwwww.. Hamas leadership wouldn't be hiding out under a HOSPITAL !!! WOULD THEY???

Just like no could understand why FATAH shelled and laid seige to a major UNIVERSITY in Gaza during THEIR bloody struggle in the crowded streets..

Bloody fighting between Hamas and Fatah continues in Gaza | The Electronic Intifada

In addition, sources reported that the presidential security forces and other members of the national security forces, “in addition to other security forces”, broke into the Islamic University in Gaza City on Thursday night.

The sources said that, according to the Palestinian media, “the forces found huge quantities of arms and explosives in the university.” The sources added, “These weapons and explosives were used by the Hamas movement”

You may make all the accusations and excuses you want and PARROT them til you turn blue --- but Hamas is STILL hiding their military leadership under civilian targets at this moment...

 

[flacaltenn]

You go sherri... Keep on bellowing that it is "illegal".. It is also illegal to hide a military operation UNDER a hospital as was done PREVIOUSLY by Hamas in 2009..

Don't want to brag any. But I've spent time in what used to be called C3 (Command, Control, Communications) intelligience gathering. Now it's called C4I, but that's just marketing. All advanced military/intelligience communities have this as a priority. Not spelling any beans here, but here's a few simple facts.

It's hard to hide your military communications assets. A skilled technologist can look at antennas on rooftops and make great guesses where they will find those signals in frequency and what it's used for. You HAVE to have them visible -- because they are line of sight propagation.. You can hide them in a dome, but that just adds to the suspicion. And anyways, you can listen and triangulate in on military communications even if you have to break codes to do it. Just 3 points in space and you know within 50 feet or so, the origin of that communication..

99% of people spouting off in public and journalists think that an operation like the IDF is just guessing about the military connection to this rehab center. I assure you --- they are NOT guessing.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

flacaltenn,

There is absolutely no evidence whosoever there was a military operation under the hospital, none.

The article I just provided a link for and provided excerpts of sets forth the reason given by the IDF for bombing the hospital, the claim rockets were being fired from nearby.

Making up your own stories of what you think happened is evidence of absolutely nothing.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=37610]SherriMunnerlyn[/MENTION], et al,

I think you are mistaken here.

We have the explanation of why the IDF shelled the hospital, they claim rockets were being launched from nearby. But that is not a justification for Israel to deliberately bomb the hospital, it was reportedly attacked on 15 separate occasions. Both forcing the evacuation and bombing the hospital were unlawful acts under The Fourth Geneva Convention.

(COMMENT)

Yes, I think you've made a mistake in the interpretation of the Code.

Art. 19. The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit and after such warning has remained unheeded.

Art. 2. No persons residing, in whatever capacity, in a hospital and safety zone shall perform any work, either within or without the zone, directly connected with military operations or the production of war material.

Art. 3. The Power establishing a hospital and safety zone shall take all necessary measures to prohibit access to all persons who have no right of residence or entry therein.

Art. 4. Hospital and safety zones shall fulfil the following conditions:

(a) they shall comprise only a small part of the territory governed by the Power which has established them
(b) they shall be thinly populated in relation to the possibilities of accommodation
(c) they shall be far removed and free from all military objectives, or large industrial or administrative establishments
(d) they shall not be situated in areas which, according to every probability, may become important for the conduct of the war.​

SOURCE: Geneva Code IV and Annex I

HAMAS can not be anywhere near a Hospital or Safety Zone; except unarmed wounded. If they are anywhere near the Hospital, the Israelis can give notice to the ICRC, and the warning to the hospital.

The hospital loses all its protection once HAMAS uses it for military purposes.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

flacaltenn,

There is absolutely no evidence whosoever there was a military operation under the hospital, none.

The article I just provided a link for and provided excerpts of sets forth the reason given by the IDF for bombing the hospital, the claim rockets were being fired from nearby.

Making up your own stories of what you think happened is evidence of absolutely nothing.

the evidence has not been presented "counselor" (its ok I have seen dishonest
and manipulative lawyers)

 

[flacaltenn]

flacaltenn,

There is absolutely no evidence whosoever there was a military operation under the hospital, none.

The article I just provided a link for and provided excerpts of sets forth the reason given by the IDF for bombing the hospital, the claim rockets were being fired from nearby.

Making up your own stories of what you think happened is evidence of absolutely nothing.

No Sherri.. That's not the conclusion from what I said. YOU and I and everybody outside of the IDF intelligence doesn't have any evidence. But within a sophisticated operation like Israeli military it's 100% for CERTAIN that they have evidence of a military connection to that location.. They are not obliged to release that info -- because it might inform Hamas that they may have accessed certain transmissions or broken certain coding.

But I'm CERTAIN that virtually every military HAMAS communication link is known and monitored AND LOCATED. Including satellite, cell and terrestrial.

When you know a bit about how a military operation MAKES a target list. You get a different view of the odds that it wasn't a mistake..

 

[irosie91]

flacaltenn,

There is absolutely no evidence whosoever there was a military operation under the hospital, none.

The article I just provided a link for and provided excerpts of sets forth the reason given by the IDF for bombing the hospital, the claim rockets were being fired from nearby.

Making up your own stories of what you think happened is evidence of absolutely nothing.

No Sherri.. That's not the conclusion from what I said. YOU and I and everybody outside of the IDF intelligence doesn't have any evidence. But within a sophisticated operation like Israeli military it's 100% for CERTAIN that they have evidence of a military connection to that location.. They are not obliged to release that info -- because it might inform Hamas that they may have accessed certain transmissions or broken certain coding.

But I'm CERTAIN that virtually every military HAMAS communication link is known and monitored AND LOCATED. Including satellite, cell and terrestrial.

When you know a bit about how a military operation MAKES a target list. You get a different view of the odds that it wasn't a mistake..

she knows all that------the POINT is ----that it was a HOSPITAL well---actually rehab
meaning it was very easy to evacuate it-----the patients in rehab are not acutely ill and in
no need of complicated nursing care. You are destroying the PATHOS of the situation.
For my part----I am delighted that Hamas had the DECENCY to do their stuff in a rehab
place and not in an intensive care facility for newborns. Give credit where credit is due

 

[Billo_Really]

How embarrassing that the very agency whose sole function it is to administer the welfare fraud that is "the Palestinians" makes such a discovery.

If I were you, I wouldn't be calling others a "fraud".

You and your ilk keep saying these missile strikes are on facilities that have weapons cache's, yet your own link indicated that is a bunch of bullshit!

This incident, which is the first of its kind in Gaza...

If that was "...the first of its kind...", then all those missile strikes were not on weapons' cache's.

 

[Billo_Really]

Of course you can target a hospital if there is an entrance to a military tunnel in the basement. And/Or if there is a missile building operation in the back room.. The hospital staff would not be able to say no to their government. So --- if the Israelis CONTINUE to pound that Rehab facility -- they must KNOW they have a valid reason to make it a military target..

They are not stupid enough to put a SMALL 40 bed Rehab facility on the target list just for spite. Think there aren't forward observers on the streets of Gaza right now?? They know why that facility is on the target list.. They don't HAVE to tell you why right at the moment.

Note the DATE on the Report below...

*Advertisement

Jan. 12, 2009 | 2:22 AM

Senior Hamas officials in Gaza are hiding out in a "bunker" built by Israel, intelligence officials suspect: Many are believed to be in the basements of the Shifa Hospital complex in Gaza City, which was refurbished during Israel's occupation of the Gaza Strip.

Shifa, the coastal strip's largest hospital, was built while Gaza was under Egyptian rule, before 1967.

The Israeli civil administration in the territories constructed the hospital complex's Building Number 2, which has a large cement basement that housed the hospital's laundry and various administrative services.

During a cabinet meeting a week ago, Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin said senior Hamas officials found refuge in the hospital basement because they know Israel would not target it, due to the patients in the upper floors. Palestinian sources told Haaretz that not all the senior Hamas leaders are hiding in one place.

Rather, they have spread out, and some are constantly changing locations. Some of the bunkers they are using were linked by tunnels Hamas built in recent years.

Naaaawwwww.. Hamas leadership wouldn't be hiding out under a HOSPITAL !!! WOULD THEY???

Just like no could understand why FATAH shelled and laid seige to a major UNIVERSITY in Gaza during THEIR bloody struggle in the crowded streets..

Bloody fighting between Hamas and Fatah continues in Gaza | The Electronic Intifada

In addition, sources reported that the presidential security forces and other members of the national security forces, “in addition to other security forces”, broke into the Islamic University in Gaza City on Thursday night.

The sources said that, according to the Palestinian media, “the forces found huge quantities of arms and explosives in the university.” The sources added, “These weapons and explosives were used by the Hamas movement”

You may make all the accusations and excuses you want and PARROT them til you turn blue --- but Hamas is STILL hiding their military leadership under civilian targets at this moment...

That is absolutely and completely wrong!

Targets must be of a "military necessity". The "necessity", must be weighed against the impact (taking it out) it would have to civilian infrastructure. Meaning, it must be greater than the importance the facility has towards civilians and the community. It's pretty hard to argue something is more important than a hospital.

Furthermore, that is the rule regarding the laws of war. It should be noted, this is not a war. This is a belligerent occupation by a foreign force who is obligated to protect civilian infrastructure, not make up bullshit lies to attack it.

 

[Billo_Really]

flacaltenn,

There is absolutely no evidence whosoever there was a military operation under the hospital, none.

The article I just provided a link for and provided excerpts of sets forth the reason given by the IDF for bombing the hospital, the claim rockets were being fired from nearby.

Making up your own stories of what you think happened is evidence of absolutely nothing.

There's also been no evidence showing Hamas was responsible for the kidnapping of the 3 teens, which was the basis for this whole attack.