Islam = religion of peace ?

[Munin]

Or is this just bullshit?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...KR1vm8Cw&q=Islam:+What+the+West+Needs+to+Know

 

[Gunny]

Or is this just bullshit?

Islam: What the West Needs to Know -- Dutch subtitles

Is there a reason you put this in the Flame Zone instead of Religion? Trying to save me some trouble later on, or what?

 

[Munin]

Or is this just bullshit?

Islam: What the West Needs to Know -- Dutch subtitles

Is there a reason you put this in the Flame Zone instead of Religion? Trying to save me some trouble later on, or what?

Yeah, I m trying to save you work ( I got a feeling this might turn ugly )

 

[Modbert]

Is there a reason you put this in the Flame Zone instead of Religion? Trying to save me some trouble later on, or what?

Haven't you thought about just saving yourself years of trouble and limit Sunni/David/Abiker all to the same thread?

 

[Munin]

Is there a reason you put this in the Flame Zone instead of Religion? Trying to save me some trouble later on, or what?

Haven't you thought about just saving yourself years of trouble and limit Sunni/David/Abiker all to the same thread?

I don't know, if it ends that way well I guess then it will end that way. BTW, I m not typing that: that is too long .

I found some shorter videos, little bit more controversial. Of a video made by a man that is now seriously threatened by death, some recent information about him (happened only a couple of days ago: this should be in current news, but it is kind of controversial so I ve put it here too):

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imLzaUK0haw[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5YgxWn3lYA&NR=1[/ame]

The movie that he made:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kcev1K-NOc&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdLMFs4fv4E&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Gunny]

Or is this just bullshit?

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION

I would say it depends on your perspective. Are you taking the Koran verbatim? Or are you referring to Islam as it is practiced?

The same arguments are made for and against Christians all the time. Radical Islam makes up less than 10% of Muslims worldwide. For the most part, Islam is just a beleif/religion for Muslims, but they realize that Man wrote the Koran even as Man wrote the Holy Bible.

Sadly, the two religions are presented by the nonreligious from the perspective and/or deeds of the whacko 10%. Most Mulsims I know feel the same as I do ... they could care less what you believe.

There will always be those extremists that misrepresent everything and anything they can. I no more believe OBL represents islam than I do Jerry Falwell or Jim Bakker represented Christianity.

 

[Dr. T. Sanchez]

The Bible's greatest advocate wasn't a pedophile.

 

[Dr. T. Sanchez]

And before anyone brings up Catholic Priests, yeah, some were guilty, too. However, the difference between an adherent and a "Prophet" must be recognized before attempting to impugn anyone. In fact, since mohammed was a pedophile, the Catholic Priest argument only reinforces the argument for the old man's perversion.

Both are wrong, and neither is a valid argument for the other.

 

[Munin]

Or is this just bullshit?

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION

I would say it depends on your perspective. Are you taking the Koran verbatim? Or are you referring to Islam as it is practiced?

The same arguments are made for and against Christians all the time. Radical Islam makes up less than 10% of Muslims worldwide. For the most part, Islam is just a beleif/religion for Muslims, but they realize that Man wrote the Koran even as Man wrote the Holy Bible.

Sadly, the two religions are presented by the nonreligious from the perspective and/or deeds of the whacko 10%. Most Mulsims I know feel the same as I do ... they could care less what you believe.

There will always be those extremists that misrepresent everything and anything they can. I no more believe OBL represents islam than I do Jerry Falwell or Jim Bakker represented Christianity.

I d say how it is represented in the Koran and how the most influential people from this religion interpret it, like with the Bible you also have the Catholic church that is the highest level of authority on the Bible for Catholics. The bible is also studied at Universities where the right historical interpretation of it is given to it. Islam also has these important authority figures (but they are not as visible): Recognized Universities (there are 4 big schools of Islam) that study Islam and make the books that give an interpretation of the Koran. These books that are red by a very large number of muslims around the world are one of the highest authorities of the Islamic religion. These books also "make" the laws about Islam. The interpretation of one of those books is also given in one the first link in the OP (the long video).


Also their is the other question: Can you compare Islam with any other religion?

Is Islam not a religion that often is interpreted as laws? As a political instrument? Sharia law? And that this is the reason why countries with a large muslim population often have these unofficial laws from this religion? (Turkey the "secular" state is an interesting example for this because the official laws from the state and the unofficial laws from religion)

The other thing is the consequences of Islam as law, it means that everything in the Koran can be taken as law. That is why sharia law is so important.


I have never been sure what exactly what the proportion of radical islam, the 10% is somehow doubtful if you can believe certain polls: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001493.php

Edit: Also this quote is interesting

A lot of people forget that Islam not only religion but also a culture, a social system, law, political system, military system, ... and that it difficult to separate those from each other.

 

[manifold]

I actually don't know any Muslims personally. Don't know any Jehovahs Witnesses , Scientologists or Buddhists either. But based on history, no religion is to be trusted to govern, least of all Islam.

 

[xsited1]

It looks peaceful enough to me:

 

[Dr. T. Sanchez]

It looks peaceful enough to me:

View attachment 6859

YOU are a bigot. Just because someone cuts someone's head off with a knife, records it and broadcasts it on the internet doesn't mean that they're bad. They probably just didn't get enough love from their mommy.

When a kid grows up where his mom wears the drapes instead of hanging them from the curtain rack, how could he turn out normal?

Think about it: Did your Mom wear the curtains? Probably not. A kid who's mom wore the drapes is likely to be screwed up.

 

[manifold]

It looks peaceful enough to me:

View attachment 6859

YOU are a bigot. Just because someone cuts someone's head off with a knife, records it and broadcasts it on the internet doesn't mean that they're bad. They probably just didn't get enough love from their mommy.

When a kid grows up where his mom wears the drapes instead of hanging them from the curtain rack, how could he turn out normal?

Think about it: Did your Mom wear the curtains? Probably not. A kid who's mom wore the drapes is likely to be screwed up.

Hey Derr Tee Sanchez, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I detect a tiny hint of sarcasm in your tone.

 

[Shooter1/1]

Or is this just bullshit?

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION

I would say it depends on your perspective. Are you taking the Koran verbatim? Or are you referring to Islam as it is practiced?

The same arguments are made for and against Christians all the time. Radical Islam makes up less than 10% of Muslims worldwide. For the most part, Islam is just a beleif/religion for Muslims, but they realize that Man wrote the Koran even as Man wrote the Holy Bible.

Sadly, the two religions are presented by the nonreligious from the perspective and/or deeds of the whacko 10%. Most Mulsims I know feel the same as I do ... they could care less what you believe.

There will always be those extremists that misrepresent everything and anything they can. I no more believe OBL represents islam than I do Jerry Falwell or Jim Bakker represented Christianity.

Guns,
I have to disagree with you on this one. though I will start by saying that durring the recent elections here I did have a conversation with an Iraqi school teacher who seemed to understand that nothing is good when taken to an extreem. but here is the argument...
when other extremist groups from other religions get out of hand, the moderates and leaders of those religions sound off. I think the number of extremist Muslims is a little higher than 10% and if that is not true the where are all these "moderate muslims"? why are they not stomping and pounding all over the world telling these imams that what they preaching is wrong and is an impropper interpretation of the Koran and islam?
as for it being a religion of peace...
Right, demanding that the whole world submit to your views or face death as a founding pillar of your religion so says that you are all about giving hugs!

 

[Mission-Reality]

I would have to say that 10% seems to be an extremely low estimate. I mean look at the war in Iraq for one. What faith does the Taliban or alquida. Then look at Geert Wilders situation. The amount of muslims holding up "violent" protest signs is insane. I would have to agree wtih SHOOTER. If there was only 10% mirepresenting thier faith. Why don't other 90% put a stop to it? I will not be the man that will stand and say that all muslims are evil. What I have read though....If you get over a 2% population of muslims in a country......They are not peaceful....!

 

[KittenKoder]

I would have to say that 10% seems to be an extremely low estimate. I mean look at the war in Iraq for one. What faith does the Taliban or alquida. Then look at Geert Wilders situation. The amount of muslims holding up "violent" protest signs is insane. I would have to agree wtih SHOOTER. If there was only 10% mirepresenting thier faith. Why don't other 90% put a stop to it? I will not be the man that will stand and say that all muslims are evil. What I have read though....If you get over a 2% population of muslims in a country......They are not peaceful....!

Same can be asked of many groups and religions, even in the US.

I would say more like 75% of them are though.

 

[manifold]

If you get over a 2% population of muslims in a country......They are not peaceful....!

Yeah, those slims get all uppity and shit when they got numbers on their side.

 

[Shooter1/1]

If you get over a 2% population of muslims in a country......They are not peaceful....!

Yeah, those slims get all uppity and shit when they got numbers on their side.

Never a truer word was spoken! and as funny as it is, look at France and England if you think it is not the truth. get a large group of military aged Muslim Males with little prospect of work and a socio/economic background that makes them think they are entitled to something, cause sharia law says so, and you will have the Paris riots on your hands. it's all fun and games to us till it happens in Deerborn. think about it, even with the sweet tax breaks they get in Mich, with the auto industry folding and these kids unemployed with no prospect of work how long do you think it will take? My only question then will be since they are not US cits (most of them anyway) can we treat them as terrorists under the War on Terror laws?

 

[Gunny]

Or is this just bullshit?

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION

I would say it depends on your perspective. Are you taking the Koran verbatim? Or are you referring to Islam as it is practiced?

The same arguments are made for and against Christians all the time. Radical Islam makes up less than 10% of Muslims worldwide. For the most part, Islam is just a beleif/religion for Muslims, but they realize that Man wrote the Koran even as Man wrote the Holy Bible.

Sadly, the two religions are presented by the nonreligious from the perspective and/or deeds of the whacko 10%. Most Mulsims I know feel the same as I do ... they could care less what you believe.

There will always be those extremists that misrepresent everything and anything they can. I no more believe OBL represents islam than I do Jerry Falwell or Jim Bakker represented Christianity.

Guns,
I have to disagree with you on this one. though I will start by saying that durring the recent elections here I did have a conversation with an Iraqi school teacher who seemed to understand that nothing is good when taken to an extreem. but here is the argument...
when other extremist groups from other religions get out of hand, the moderates and leaders of those religions sound off. I think the number of extremist Muslims is a little higher than 10% and if that is not true the where are all these "moderate muslims"? why are they not stomping and pounding all over the world telling these imams that what they preaching is wrong and is an impropper interpretation of the Koran and islam?
as for it being a religion of peace...
Right, demanding that the whole world submit to your views or face death as a founding pillar of your religion so says that you are all about giving hugs!

I did not make the claim it was a religion of peace.

I don't agree with your numbers. I'll see if I can't dredge something up off the net.

I am not defending radical Islam, nor am I defending the Koran. I am stating my opinion based on observation.

Beats me why moderate muslims don't sound off. Maybe they don't want to be labelled "infidel" and beheaded on youtube?

A fundamental difference between the two groups would be Arab society is steeped in Islam. Our society is based in freedom of speech. Our society also affords a LOT more protection than Arab society does.

 

[Gunny]

I would have to say that 10% seems to be an extremely low estimate. I mean look at the war in Iraq for one. What faith does the Taliban or alquida. Then look at Geert Wilders situation. The amount of muslims holding up "violent" protest signs is insane. I would have to agree wtih SHOOTER. If there was only 10% mirepresenting thier faith. Why don't other 90% put a stop to it? I will not be the man that will stand and say that all muslims are evil. What I have read though....If you get over a 2% population of muslims in a country......They are not peaceful....!

Okay, if I look at the war in Iraq, what does it have to do with the Taliban or al Qaeda?

Universal Western Mistake Number 1: Assuming Arabs think/reason the same as we do. They don't. If a few people would grasp that reality, it sure would make dealing with them a lot easier.

We have Muslims in the US. I don't know the percentage, but I don't really see them making a whole lot of noise. Arabs on the other hand, will shoot each other over a sand dune they believe falls into their ancestral fiefdoms. They've been doing it for thousands of years. Some, like al Qaeda and the Taliban, use Islam as a facade for their xenophobia and twist it to suit their agendas.