Islam in Australia: Living and dying for the flag of Allah

[Coyote]

February 5, 2014 | By Michael Sandler, UNICEF USA

The U.N. has released a harrowing new report that documents the extent of the suffering experienced by Syria’s children during three years of conflict. Children have endured “acts of terror” and “grave violations,” the report states. They have been sexually abused and tortured, used as human shields and recruited as child soldiers. More than 10,000 children have been killed.

The report comes amid accounts of new......

^Since February. The men killed, the women raped and the children used for whatever purposes whoever grabs them want.

I know that this link isn't where information often comes, but it is where some of my money goes.

Does anyone think that by giving ISIS Half of Iraq and Syria that they will stop?

We can't stop them leaving here to fight there but we can enact legislation that removes their citizenship so that what they've learned there?

They can't bring back here.

We've already got Omar Khadr almost set free.

Omar Khadr wins appeal, ordered transferred to provincial jail - Politics - CBC News

I don't actually disagree with you on this. UNICEF is a source I support also. And I'm not "minimizing" this sort of stuff.

The only thing that makes ISIS able to get as far as it has is lack of any effective goverment in Syria for some time and in Iraq (and some of that blame lies on Malikki's head for his alienation of the Sunni's and Kurds). Stopping them is absolutely necessary.

Removing citizenship? I don't know. For what reason? Fighting in a foreign army?

 

[Ropey]

The only thing that makes ISIS able to get as far as it has is lack of any effective goverment in Syria for some time and in Iraq (and some of that blame lies on Malikki's head for his alienation of the Sunni's and Kurds). Stopping them is absolutely necessary.

Removing citizenship? I don't know. For what reason? Fighting in a foreign army?

So, you consider ISIS an army.

Without a country.

So does Islam. There shall be no borders to the Ummah.

 

[bianco]

Then in 2012 Sydney had the "Muslim Riots"...Muslim rioters invaded Sydney's CBD trying to gain acces to the US Consulate.
The cops and the govt man were taken by surpise...many say "as usual'.



Rioting Muslims now hit Sydney Australia - 15th Sept 2012

 

[bianco]

A message to the jihadists;

The Spirit of Oz - National - smh.com.au

 

[Ropey]

^ The Aussies have a toughness that we Canadians seem to have misplaced along the way. I don't understand why. You're even more Liberal than we are. We would wait for the police.

You guys took it to them.

Too right!

 

[Coyote]

The only thing that makes ISIS able to get as far as it has is lack of any effective goverment in Syria for some time and in Iraq (and some of that blame lies on Malikki's head for his alienation of the Sunni's and Kurds). Stopping them is absolutely necessary.

Removing citizenship? I don't know. For what reason? Fighting in a foreign army?

So, you consider ISIS an army.

Only in the sense that Ghengis Kahn's horde was an "army".

The point is - on what basis do you revoke citizenship? Engaging in terrorist activites? Ok, yes that I could agree with.

Without a country.

So does Islam. There shall be no borders to the Ummah.

Well, unfortunately for your "theory" - Islam, in the main, does not consider them to be "Islamic".

 

[Ropey]

There is no main.

Ghengis Khan's horde was a horde for that reason.

 

[Coyote]

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

 

[Ropey]

You speak for the majority of Muslims. You know what the majority of Muslims worldwide say about this.

OK.

 

[Coyote]

You speak for the majority of Muslims. You know what the majority of Muslims worldwide say about this.

OK.

Never claimed that.

Nice deflection.

 

[Ropey]

You speak for the majority of Muslims. You know what the majority of Muslims worldwide say about this.

OK.

Never claimed that.

Nice deflection.

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

You say that the majority of Muslims denounce ISIS and I say that you can't know this unless you speak for them.

Since you don't speak for them and you admit that, then you don't know it. How could you?

But you talk like you do.

 

[Coyote]

You speak for the majority of Muslims. You know what the majority of Muslims worldwide say about this.

OK.

Never claimed that.

Nice deflection.

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

You say that the majority of Muslims denounce ISIS and I say that you can't know this unless you speak for them.

Balony. You don't have to "speak for them" to know something. You can read. There are tons of repudiations and expressions of disgust with what ISIS has done from the Muslim world. There are very few "approvals". Don't know if there are any polls.

Since you don't speak for them and you admit that, then you don't know it. How could you?

See above.

But you talk like you do.

No more than anyone else who is capable of reading and critical thinking.

 

[Ropey]

You said you know what the majority of Muslims think.

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

Backpedal all you want.

 

[Coyote]

You said you know what the majority of Muslims think.

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

Backpedal all you want.

Whatever you say Ropey.

I'm not into playing word games.

 

[Ropey]

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

You said you know what the majority of Muslims think.

Backpedal all you want.

Whatever you say Ropey.

I'm not into playing word games.

Sheesh!

 

[Vikrant]

...

There have been a large number of well done public opinion polls on Muslims in Europe, in particular in the UK where it was found that they were by far well integrated, very British and quite assimilated. I won't bother posting a link, because I've posted these many times and they get routinely ignored.

I completely agree with Coyote on this one. Muslim immigrants to UK have done wonders for UK. It will be very beneficial for UK to increase the inward flow of Muslim migrants. British government should reach out to countries like India who have large Muslim population to facilitate easy migration of Muslims into UK.

 

[Sally]

Why are you so interested in my job Sally? Frankly, that is kind of creepy. Maybe you need to get out more. Or get a job.

No you don't.

I just posted an article where they strongly condemned that action. You pick out the one whacko. Is that to somehow diminish it? Rather makes my point - there is nothing the Musllim community can do that would be "enough" because there are always going to be whackos.

What has that to do with anything?

If you think so...

OK, so you want to go there with the head.

Is ISIS just Wackos?

Yes, they are - along with Boko Haran. NPR had an interesting interview with the author of a book called "The Hunt for Boko Haram" in which he talked about Boko Haran, and also similar groups such as ISIS.

Nigeria's Boko Haram 'More Extreme Than Al-Qaida,' Journalist Says : NPR

Why is this group abusing, selling off girls, kidnapping them? Why is it killing boys? Why is [it] killing any children? Why is it beheading people left, right and center? Why is it wiping out villages and showing this capacity for extreme and merciless violence? It's quite a difficult question to answer. ...


What it is ... is heavily armed playground thuggery in an area of absolutely no government control, of [complete] lawlessness and impunity where they're allowed to do what they want, so the baddest guy wins.​

The transcript is only partial, but in the interview he talks about how these groups are very uneducated and ignorant even of their own religion. For example, the emphasis on beheading people with a sword - which they took from an obscure scholar's text translated by yet another obscure scholar. Whackos. And relgious whackos can be quite dangerous when there is no law and order to stop them. They have no mainstream Muslim suppoort and quite a lot of condemnation.

The Palestinians are also joining them and in marked numbers.

and...?

Where do you think they will come back to once they are done slaughtering their own bretren there? Who do you think they will bring with them?

Uneducated or not. They kniw what they are doing.

Yiu sure minimize that sid3.

Im done for now. You continue on in your vein.

That's fine with me. Every murderer knows what they are doing. Labeling them for what they are - extremists, whackos, doesn't minimize what they are doing, it just annoys those who would prefer to label an entire religion.

Did you take time off your busy messageboard trolling schedule to note that Muslim leaders and communities around the world condemned the attacks on Iraqi Christians? Or...did that slip under your radar?

Frankly I find it creepy that someone who was given the responsibility of reading so many of these forums finds it apropos to do so while hold down a job. I am willing to bet that I am on the Internet less than you are and it is quite dishonest of you to say that I am trolling these message boards when you know that I am not hopping all over the place but basically am only on one forum, but it is quite obvious that you can't stand to see anything derogatory about Muslims no matter how many innocents they are killing. Would I even be on this particular forum at the moment if my article wasn't moved over to here.

Sally, you really are a silly woman. It makes no difference whether you obsess about one forum or hop around many. Your concern about what other's do is what I find creepy since you invariably start in on their jobs, which have nothing to do with anything and which, I might add - you are as clueless about as you are about the location of Australia.

The reason it was on the forum where I basically post is because these radical Muslims are traveling from many different locations into certain areas of the Middle East to take over and establish their version of a worldwide Caliphate.

Which radical Muslims are traveling to establish their version of a "worldwide" Caliphate Sally? As far as I have heard, the only "Caliphate" is ISIS' self-proclaimed state and as far as I've seen no major Muslim groups have recognized it. In fact most denounce it as heretical.

Perhaps you can give us your opinion as to why those in the countries these nuts came from are worried that when they go bacl they will start up in these countries.

Sure, I'll give you (not "us") my opinion. I think they have good reason to be concerned and to want to keep an eye on those people when they return given that they've been exposed to radicalism and involved in mercenary fighting.

Maybe you would tell them that they have nothing to worry about, that all Muslims are just angels.

Who claimed that?

God forbifd any of us is near them if they start up in America, but Coyote will yell -- it wasn't the Muslims, it was the Hindus or the Buddhists or the Christians.

Well Sally, they've all had their share of bloody religious violence (which you would know if you bothered to read). However, in the US, it's far more likely that they will be the victims of violence than the perpetrators of violence. Remember the mass murder at the Sikh Temple? All because some whacko thought they were Muslim and hated Muslims.

However, your obsession with Muslims is duly noted.

I think that many of us realize that there are peaceful Muslims who are appalled by what these nuts are doing. However, all we seem to hear about is all those Muslim protests happening in Europe and the U.S. against Israel and nothing about the Muslims gathering en masse in any country to protest what is happening by their fellow Muslims in certain areas of the Middle East. Maybe you can start up a group in your area to start up a protest. Surely they must be sickened by all the beheadings so let them gather together and start protesting.

Who's "us" Sally? Is there more than one person inhabiting your head?

Have you ever considered, Sally,, that the reason that's all you hear in the media is:
1 - blood and violence sells in the media, peace doesn't
2 - it's all you look for

And, if you could bother to maneuver your bumm from your computer chair you would find that they certainly are sickened by all the beheadings and have been protesting and denouncing (links have previously been supplied and duly ignored by you).

Perhaps you can answer a question.

Why is it that you demand Muslims protest enmasse around the world against the behavior of extremists but you don't of Christians (who have enacted barbaric laws in Uganda, or the Lords Resistence Army in the Congo) or Buddhists (who are attacking Muslims in Myanmar). Why is it only one religion is required to do so as a world-wide entity (despite the fact that it isn't) and the others given a free pass?

You said you know what the majority of Muslims think.

The majority of Muslims denounce ISIS. That's the main. ISIS is not considered Islam.

Backpedal all you want.

Ropey, you are just banging your head against the wall. She doesn't want to hear anything being said derogatory about Muslims, no matter how many innocents they kill. Many governments are worried now about these Jihadists and wonder what will happen if they are able to sneak back into the countries from which they originally left. Will they start murdering their civilians the same way the Jihadists are doing in the Middle East in order to continue establishing a new worldwide Caliphate?

 

[hipeter924]

Ropey, you are just banging your head against the wall. She doesn't want to hear anything being said derogatory about Muslims, no matter how many innocents they kill. Many governments are worried now about these Jihadists and wonder what will happen if they are able to sneak back into the countries from which they originally left. Will they start murdering their civilians the same way the Jihadists are doing in the Middle East in order to continue establishing a new worldwide Caliphate?

I have read about this 'Islam is a religion of peace' and these people that would argue 'Islam is not the enemy', in the case of Progressive Muslim movements that allow women and gay people to pray in their Mosques that might be true - but in the case of mainstream Islam it is the enemy of human rights and democracy.

I would be happy to tolerate mainstream Islam, if it didn't want me put in prison, decapitated, or put to death for being bisexual, like happens in Iran, Saudi Arabia and other 'Islamic states'.

I would be happy to tolerate mainstream Islam if those Muslims in their hearts didn't look forward to seeing me in a gas chamber, in prison, or otherwise dead for being a bisexual, atheist or heretic. Unlike even the most extreme Christians they want me to suffer hell on Earth, and today.

I would tolerate mainstream Islam, if the only country in the Middle East I could visit without being put in jail or put to death wasn't Israel or Christian majority parts of Lebanon.

I would tolerate mainstream Islam, if it didn't want to round up and massacre people of minority faiths, like it did to my Armenian Christian ancestors, and is now doing to the minorities of Iraq.

I would tolerate mainstream Islam, if it didn't hold political rallies in streets of many counties calling for the death of democracy, the death of Jews, and an Islamic theocracy.

I would tolerate mainstream Islam, if it stopped endorsing marrying underage girls to men, slavery, second-class status for women, and honor killings.

I would tolerate mainstream Islam, if it really acted like a 'religion of peace', put down its arms, stopped firing rockets, and started loving Jews, Christians and gay people - not calling for their deaths, imprisonment or persecution.

When that day comes, I will tolerate mainstream Islam. Till then I cannot tolerate them, only treat them as I would anyone else I don't know, as a human being - until they call for death or suffering to be inflicted on me or others, which is when they become the enemy.

Anyone that is put to death, put in prison, or persecuted by mainstream Islam* is a hero of individualism against the collectivist terror of the Islamist movement, that would see everyone it disagrees with dead before their feet or put in chains.

*Mainstream Islam in this case refers to Muslims in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Malaysia, in Iraq (under ISIS) and so on - though the 'mainstream Muslims' in most western nations still hate gay people,view women as beneath men rather than equal to them, and engage in honor killings.

 

[irosie91]

Everything the OP says is one 100% correct !

There is no other immigrant group in Australia as troublesome as some Muslims.

You all should be aware of the shocking photos regarding the Islamic States beheadings and one 7 year old child holding up a severed head with a beaming father all recently arrived from Australia,looking on.

Unfortunately quite a few of the local Muslims were in approval and there were many public demonstrations and TV appearances which demonstrated their allegiance is not with Australia at all but rather with radical Islam.

There is no doubt that the acts commited by some local Muslims are the most aggressive and troublesome and a lot of them are fanatics who are guided by the principle of Jihad.

getting back to the **** OP **** I have a hard time ---
thinking up any people--------IMMIGRANT GROUP------that held a rally in which an announcement was made-----and met
with approval--------- "I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE STARS AND STRIPES----- I RECOGNIZE, ONLY.....uhm-------the flag
of an ideology with totalitarian supremacist ambition......and
generally opposed to the ideological principles of the USA....

I cannot think of even one instance---------not by any
IMMIGRANT GROUPS------I can think of some single
nuts------waving THE BONNIE BLUE FLAG OF THE
CONFEDERACY-----or the other Islamic flat-----the
SWATSTIKA

The only thing that makes ISIS able to get as far as it has is lack of any effective goverment in Syria for some time and in Iraq (and some of that blame lies on Malikki's head for his alienation of the Sunni's and Kurds). Stopping them is absolutely necessary.

Removing citizenship? I don't know. For what reason? Fighting in a foreign army?

So, you consider ISIS an army.

Without a country.

So does Islam. There shall be no borders to the Ummah.

Ropey----you are preaching to the choir. All people who know anything about the Islamic ethos understand the
Islamic concept of "no borders for the ummah" Coyoto
understands but DENIES-----caliphate denial is something
like holocaust denial. Holocaust denial began circa 1935.
The system is easy to understand if one understands that
CALIPHATE = REICH. "none of us knew---none of us
wanted it" ~~~~ but somehow it happened

a theory is tested by its efficacy in PREDICTING-------I have
been predicting the agenda of THE CALIPHATE for the
more than 3 years since the onset of the "ARAB SPRING".
I have no crystal ball-----I simply believe what muslims have been telling me about ISLAMIC TRUTH for about the past 50 years, Osama bin Laden's agenda was caliphate----
Coyote doppelgangers insisted that "muslims repudiate
Osama" and "hate the Taliban" and some people have
been stupid enough to believe it. No doubt there are lots of
muslims who repudiate CALIPH BAGHDADI-----nothing
surprising there-------fights over WHO SHOULD BE THE
CALIPH began before the carcass of muhummad had cooled almost 1400 years ago. To simplify for the dim among us------repudiating ISIS is not equivalent to repudiating the vile and disgusting CONCEPT OF CALIPHATE any more than a negative comment about
THE REPUBLICAN PARY -----is a democrat party repudiation of Democracy

 

[Coyote]

Everything the OP says is one 100% correct !

There is no other immigrant group in Australia as troublesome as some Muslims.

You all should be aware of the shocking photos regarding the Islamic States beheadings and one 7 year old child holding up a severed head with a beaming father all recently arrived from Australia,looking on.

Unfortunately quite a few of the local Muslims were in approval and there were many public demonstrations and TV appearances which demonstrated their allegiance is not with Australia at all but rather with radical Islam.

Which "quite a few"? I posted a link and most expressed anger and disgust at this action and a great deal of anger at the man who took his child there. Who are your "quite a few".

There is no doubt that the acts commited by some local Muslims are the most aggressive and troublesome and a lot of them are fanatics who are guided by the principle of Jihad.

Religious fanatics and extremists are always a problem and unfortunately groups like ISIL and Boko Haram are among the most brutal and in the news right now - not just because of their brutality but because of the fact that they haven't been stopped. Yet they aren't alone and atrocities by other groups, such as the Lords Resistance Army get largely ignored by the media despite committing acts of horrific brutality.