Is "Water" a Human Right?

[Bush92]

There are no "human rights" listed on your birth certificate. We have the "inalienable right" to liberty. People are born free with natural rights not given by government. But free water for your own survival is not one of them. Look at the settlers who moved west beyond the Appalachians. The were in an era of Jacksonian Democracy, but the never wanted "free" anything. They survived through hard work and struggle. That is the foundation of America.

 

[Care4all]

OK...

In economics, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.[1] Economic commodities comprise goods and services
Commodity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any good exchanged during commerce, which includes goods traded on a commodity exchange.
Commodity Definition | Investopedia

an economic good: as
-a product of agriculture or mining
-an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment
--a mass-produced unspecialized product
2a : something useful or valued
Commodity - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1. an article of trade or commerce, especially a product as distinguished from a service.
2. something of use, advantage, or value.
Commodity | Define Commodity at Dictionary.com

As I said: Water is a commodity.

I ask again:
How do you or anyone else have a right to a commodity that you do not pay for?

You can stop avoiding the question any time now.

In the City of Detroit, Water is NOT a commodity. It is not privately owned, it is not traded or sold on a market, there is no private competition...

It is a Public Good in Detroit.... so an answer to your question can not be given...we are talking about this incidence in Detroit, right??? and in Detroit, water is not a commodity.

The commodification of water refers to the process of transforming water from a public good into a tradable commodity also known as an economic good.

whatever you want to call it...it has to be paid for or you stop receiving it.

they are paying their bills, only they are paying them running 2 months in the rears..., but they are STILL PAYING THEM....plus the late fees and penalties for paying them 2 months in the rears.

The City of Detroit should NOT have cut their water off, it was a mistake for the city to do this from the get go...especially with the high financial costs to do such.

NO WHERE did it say in the article, that these people STOPPED PAYING their water bill, it said SPECIFICALLY that they continued paying their bills with late fees and all, they are just on average, running 2 months behind on their bills....

 

[Toro]

No.

 

[Rotagilla]

In the City of Detroit, Water is NOT a commodity. It is not privately owned, it is not traded or sold on a market, there is no private competition...

It is a Public Good in Detroit.... so an answer to your question can not be given...we are talking about this incidence in Detroit, right??? and in Detroit, water is not a commodity.

whatever you want to call it...it has to be paid for or you stop receiving it.

they are paying their bills, only they are paying them running 2 months in the rears..., but they are STILL PAYING THEM....plus the late fees and penalties for paying them 2 months in the rears.

The City of Detroit should NOT have cut their water off, it was a mistake for the city to do this from the get go...especially with the high financial costs to do such.

NO WHERE did it say in the article, that these people STOPPED PAYING their water bill, it said SPECIFICALLY that they continued paying their bills with late fees and all, they are just on average, running 2 months behind on their bills....

You're wrong on every point...again...
From the article;

DWSD has targeted properties that have bills that are at least two months delinquent and owe at least $150.

AT LEAST 2 months in arrears..."AT LEAST"..you understand those 2 words and how they relate to the situstion? Why do you keep lying about it?

Post #257 covers this (again..and debunks all your other lies as well) and we've been over it several times and I've refuted all your claims...
Keep trying to muddy up the issue but I don't think many are fooled by that tactic.

If you can't keep up, excuse yourself...If you're trolling that's a weak effort.

 

[Immanuel]

In the City of Detroit, Water is NOT a commodity. It is not privately owned, it is not traded or sold on a market, there is no private competition...

It is a Public Good in Detroit.... so an answer to your question can not be given...we are talking about this incidence in Detroit, right??? and in Detroit, water is not a commodity.

whatever you want to call it...it has to be paid for or you stop receiving it.

they are paying their bills, only they are paying them running 2 months in the rears..., but they are STILL PAYING THEM....plus the late fees and penalties for paying them 2 months in the rears.

The City of Detroit should NOT have cut their water off, it was a mistake for the city to do this from the get go...especially with the high financial costs to do such.

NO WHERE did it say in the article, that these people STOPPED PAYING their water bill, it said SPECIFICALLY that they continued paying their bills with late fees and all, they are just on average, running 2 months behind on their bills....

While I MIGHT agree with you that the City of Detroit should not have cut their water off it would be for completely different reasons such as health or the necessity of providing for innocent children.

Besides the health reasons and providing for innocent children, why shouldn't the water company use the only teeth they have to compel people who refuse to pay their bills on time to pay their bills? Do you think your cable/internet provider should be compelled to provide you with high speed internet if you don't pay your bill? After all, isn't internet service our right so we can be lied to by politicians? How about the bank you borrowed money to buy your car or house? Should they be prohibited from repossessing or foreclosing?

I would not say that water is a human right, but I would say it is a necessity and quite frankly even though this may not be the conservative view, I am all for doing what I can to assist those in need with acquiring necessities... now, the issue becomes are these people in need or are they simply taking advantage of others? I'm not sure of the answer to that or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I believe there are some who really are in need and then there are some who are taking advantage of others.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

The good folks of Detroit are clearly being discriminated against because of their race....

Oppressed victims of social injustice no doubt...

Lmfao

 

[Bush92]

Former Detroit mayor sentenced to 28 years in prison
Democrat poster child.

 

[Kosh]

Anything we decide is a right, is a right. We can certainly put forth criteria upon which we will base that determination.

Just to repeat the far left mentality on "rights"...

 

[AntiParty]

Water isn't a commodity in Detroit...

Water is a commodity, everywhere. No way to soundly argue otherwise.
So, the question remains: How do you or anyone else have a right to a commodity that you do not pay for?

No it isn't, look up what a commodity is M14....

it's in the process of turning in to one with many governments selling off their public water works to private companies...but as long as the City or municipalities or towns etc operate and own the water facilities, water is NOT A COMMODITY.

It is a fact that some groups want Water, highway, sewer, firefighers and others to be privately owned. They think these groups would do better if they were privately owned.

The small brains that haven't seen monopolies price gouge cry for their freedom to do so. (Note, they have seen it, they just don't understand it yet)

 

[AntiParty]

Anything we decide is a right, is a right. We can certainly put forth criteria upon which we will base that determination.

Just to repeat the far left mentality on "rights"...

Wait, wait, wait..........

You think that We The People can't decide what a Right is?

We can decide what is a Right and that's in the Constitution. We can even change the Constitution if it becomes outdated and doesn't apply to current times, it was written to do so.

Tell me why the people determining what a right is wrong in your opinion. You probably think only GOVERNMENT knows what a Right is. Many Republicans today hate Government but think that it can never be changed because the people are stupid for some reason. This ideology has to change.

 

[Rotagilla]

Yeah, that's all great.
Here's how the real world works;
Pay your water bill or it gets shut off.

negro, white or asian. It doesn't matter

 

[Care4all]

whatever you want to call it...it has to be paid for or you stop receiving it.

they are paying their bills, only they are paying them running 2 months in the rears..., but they are STILL PAYING THEM....plus the late fees and penalties for paying them 2 months in the rears.

The City of Detroit should NOT have cut their water off, it was a mistake for the city to do this from the get go...especially with the high financial costs to do such.

NO WHERE did it say in the article, that these people STOPPED PAYING their water bill, it said SPECIFICALLY that they continued paying their bills with late fees and all, they are just on average, running 2 months behind on their bills....

While I MIGHT agree with you that the City of Detroit should not have cut their water off it would be for completely different reasons such as health or the necessity of providing for innocent children.

and I agree with you, I have mentioned this several times in this thread.

Shoot, Florida has it that if you do not have running water and electricity, going to your house, the city can evict you! Can you believe that story in Cape Coral that "off the Grid" living was against the law?

Court Rules Off-The-Grid Living Is Illegal | Off The Grid News

Besides the health reasons and providing for innocent children, why shouldn't the water company use the only teeth they have to compel people who refuse to pay their bills on time to pay their bills?

Because the residents were continuing to make an effort to catch up and continued to pay their bills, including the late fees and penalties of which the city gvt benefited off of... they didn't STOP paying their bills...and if these people had the money to pay their water bills and be up to date, then they would have, instead of being hit with these astronomical late fees and penalties the Water Works Div. was charging them each month.


Do you think your cable/internet provider should be compelled to provide you with high speed internet if you don't pay your bill? After all, isn't internet service our right so we can be lied to by politicians? How about the bank you borrowed money to buy your car or house? Should they be prohibited from repossessing or foreclosing?

none of the above applies because Detroit water works is NOT a privately held corporation, it is a PUBLIC GOOD.

I would not say that water is a human right, but I would say it is a necessity and quite frankly even though this may not be the conservative view, I am all for doing what I can to assist those in need with acquiring necessities... now, the issue becomes are these people in need or are they simply taking advantage of others? I'm not sure of the answer to that or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I believe there are some who really are in need and then there are some who are taking advantage of others.

Immie, read the initial article in this thread....it is MUCH MORE COMPLICATED....

This is about money and greed,,,,and the government wanting to sell off the City of Detroit's Water Works Facility to a Private investor friend and turning it in to a commodity vs a public good....this isn't about these people not paying or getting things for free.... nothing is free, even freebies!

This is about the asinine decision of a governor appointed worker, to shut off the water to 30-40,000 residents, because they were late on their Bill....and they wanted their water works facility to look more profitable on paper, so they could sell it off... the HUMAN FACTOR was not even considered...the children and sanitary conditions that this would lead to, was never even considered, the costs to Medicaid for their illnesses that this would cause was never even considered, and humans needing clean water to live, was never even considered.

and on top of this 11% of the late bills were from Commercial businesses, and this governor lady friend, did not order their shut off....to get them to pay there bills, they only did this to the poor residents.

And those 11% that were commercial businesses, accounted for 50% of the money owed that was late. 50% of it was these 11% businesses....they could have gotten 50% of their late money immediately, without putting people out of their homes or in unsanitary conditions....no bathing, no flushing toilets, and no clean water to drink...water, the giver of life.

Tell me, do you think the government has the power to just kill or make in-firmed, these tax paying residents, citizens, children...? that's what turning off their water means...it's a slippery slope...what are they going to do next, condemn these folks from their homes for living in unsanitary conditions and then take their homes away from them? As I said in an earlier post, you might as well give the government to just shoot and kill them right now...

 

[Rotagilla]

Part of the reason 83% "black" detroit is bankrupt is people refusing to pay their bills...which forces the (black run) city council to raise water rates to cover the deficit in this case.

Pay your bills or you lose the service...just like everywhere else in the world. Negroes aren't "special"...they have to pay their bills like everyone else.

 

[Care4all]

In the northeast States, and in the Winter, it is ILLEGAL for the electric company or the natural Gas Company, to turn off your heat, even if you are 2-3 months late on your bill....the human factor was considered....

What makes water and sewer work facilities any different?

 

[Rotagilla]

In the northeast States, and in the Winter, it is ILLEGAL for the electric company or the natural Gas Company, to turn off your heat, even if you are 2-3 months late on your bill....the human factor was considered....

What makes water and sewer work facilities any different?

Still desperately flogging the dead horse...looking for an angle
Yes, dear..everything should be free...Free pony rides, balloons and lollipos for everyone.

No one should have to pay for anything, right?

 

[Care4all]

In the northeast States, and in the Winter, it is ILLEGAL for the electric company or the natural Gas Company, to turn off your heat, even if you are 2-3 months late on your bill....the human factor was considered....

What makes water and sewer work facilities any different?

Still desperately flogging the dead horse...looking for an angle
Yes, dear..everything should be free...Free pony rides, balloons and lollipos for everyone.

No one should have to pay for anything, right?

that's such a strawman and you know it!

Being LATE in PAYING your bill is NOT...

NOT PAYING your bill, rotagilla.

and there are means to get the money that our gvt could take, like putting a lien against the homeowner's house maybe? I know they do it if people do not pay their property taxes on time...?

 

[Rotagilla]

In the northeast States, and in the Winter, it is ILLEGAL for the electric company or the natural Gas Company, to turn off your heat, even if you are 2-3 months late on your bill....the human factor was considered....

What makes water and sewer work facilities any different?

Still desperately flogging the dead horse...looking for an angle
Yes, dear..everything should be free...Free pony rides, balloons and lollipos for everyone.

No one should have to pay for anything, right?

that's such a strawman and you know it!

Being LATE in PAYING your bill is NOT...

NOT PAYING your bill, rotagilla.

and there are means to get the money that our gvt could take, like putting a lien against the homeowner's house maybe? I know they do it if people do not pay their property taxes on time...?

We've been over this before.
I debunk your inaccuracies and you come back the next day and say the same things again...
Not all those people are homeowners..therefore you can't put a lien on their property.

The "govt' can't and has no right to spend any tax money on people who refuse to pay their bills.

Do you (or your mom) pay your water bill? What happens if you don't?

 

[Mathbud1]

Anything we decide is a right, is a right. We can certainly put forth criteria upon which we will base that determination.

The founders are dead. The people seem to be having a hard time deciphering what they stated. Just like all old books, everyone tends to decipher them in different ways and all think they are correct.

Exactly. They base their decision on the criteria of how they interpret historical documents. At least on the surface.

It is obvious that they ar basing their interpretation on apriori unstated criteria, even unstated apriori decisions a to what are right. Then they interpret documents to suit their decisions.

You will notice that this process has a unique characteristic in that their definitions always benefit themselve over others.

You can state that as a hypothesis with instrumuntal definitions and measures.

You seem to be misusing the term "A priori." I could be wrong. I may have misunderstood your intention.

All told though, you don't really seem to be saying anything here except something vague about a "they" and how "they" are coloring their interpretation of historical documents based on what they want to see.

Got that right?

 

[M14 Shooter]

No it isn't, look up what a commodity is M14....

OK...

In economics, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.[1] Economic commodities comprise goods and services
Commodity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any good exchanged during commerce, which includes goods traded on a commodity exchange.
Commodity Definition | Investopedia

an economic good: as
-a product of agriculture or mining
-an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment
--a mass-produced unspecialized product
2a : something useful or valued
Commodity - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1. an article of trade or commerce, especially a product as distinguished from a service.
2. something of use, advantage, or value.
Commodity | Define Commodity at Dictionary.com

As I said: Water is a commodity.

I ask again:
How do you or anyone else have a right to a commodity that you do not pay for?

You can stop avoiding the question any time now.

In the City of Detroit, Water is NOT a commodity.

It is a commodity, everywhere.
You can stop avoiding the question any time now

 

[Mathbud1]

Actually, fresh water isn't all that abundant since corporations began buying it up. While desalinization is possible, it's cost-inefficient so only done when there's no other choice. But fresh drinkable water in aquifers and lakes is becomming quite a scarce commodity.

They'll be selling air next.

I went fishing with my brother on his boat yesterday. There was plenty of fresh water where we were.

If you drink that water, will it be in your general welfare to do so?

I have drunk lake water. And stream water. And river water. And puddle water. And spring water.

All it takes is a relatively inexpensive filter and you are good to go.