Is "Water" a Human Right?

[Redfish]

They can walk down to the Detroit river with a bucket and get all the water they want or can carry, and its FREE.

your water bill is for the piping and pumps and filters that bring it into your house, not the water itself.

 

[Care4all]

Instead they should give the water away.

Even though providing the water costs money and the DWSD is already $5 billion in debt.

Oh and we can't have them raising water prices either because that would disadvantage even more poor folk.

So where exactly are we going to get the money to keep the water treatment facilities running again?

I would suggest, that their 5 billion in debt that Detroit's Water Facility is purportedly in, (even with Detroit having the HIGHEST COST FOR WATER IN THE NATION), is due to the City's mismanagement and NOT due to these citizens who are having trouble paying the highest prices for water in the Nation.

The article said that the Detroit water works facility fairly recently, laid off 600 WORKERS, and they seem to be doing just fine without them....they were over bloated....I'd say that's mismanagement.

And then there is this:

In Detroit, where 35 billion gallons of water leak from the city’s decaying water system each year, residents pay about $25 million annually for
water that never reaches homes or businesses.
14
With an unemployment rate of
20 percent and facing a $47 million budget shortfall by June 2012, the Motor
City is even less in a position to confront its water infrastructure needs.
15
Indeed,
in economically depressed cities such as Detroit, the burden for upgrading
municipal water systems will fall disproportionately on people living on fixed
incomes, low incomes, and the unemployed

Just think about it...in order to survive and live in today's society, we each use about the same amount of water a day...we need to all drink X amount, we all use the toilet about the same, we all take showers every day, we all cook with water occasionally....

But for those poorest among us, that water bill in Detroit that is super high, HITS them disproportionately in relation to their income....it would be harder for them to keep up with paying these high water bills compared with an average middle class family or a family that is wealthier....

So, mismanagement of the Detroit government, for decades, is what has put the Water Works Division of Detroit and IS THE ROOT of the problem....and yes, it was Democrats running the show there and they are at fault, at least for most of it, imo....and I am a Liberal, from birth, from head to toe, always have been and always will be!

=============================

As far as your other post regarding leaving businesses with running water while disconnecting 35000 or so Families.

I thought about the things you mentioned, before you even mentioned them! And the points are fuel for thought!

but I put a pencil to it, the best that I could without knowing all of the details regarding these businesses that were delinquent...so I used what I did know....

and what I did know is that 11% of all late bills, came from commercial businesses....and a figure of 40,000 was thrown out in the article about people being late....

11% of the 40k, is 4400 accounts, 4400 business accounts that were late, that accounted for 50% of the money past due.

The gvt decided, to get 50% of their money due, they would send hundreds of UNIONIZED, (meaning very high paying workers, and I have nothing against Union workers, but this is noted, due to knowing they get paid better than the average Joe out there) Waterworks Facility workers, out in to the city, to shut off 35,000 homes all at once, from receiving water and the use of their toilets....

When they could have sent dozens of workers out to shut off 4400 businesses, that owed the same amount of money.

Now as a Business person myself, I'd call that mismanagement of funds, when you are paying for 35000 shut offs, vs paying employees to shut off 4400 businesses, for the same amount of money recouped in return. And, my guess is that the Businesses, have more resources to borrow money and get money to pay their water bill than those that are poor and struggling, with no resources for extra money.

Let alone putting residents in risk of Cholera, and other disgusting and dangerous diseases....that the city would have to pay for and the federal government with medicaid or visits to the ER for the uninsured....let alone possible death....

In the 20th century, in the USA, the average life span for people grew by 35 years....30 of those added years to our lives, come from the government getting us clean water, and good sanitation....I just heard that this morning on a program I was watching on the history channel...(it was kind of Twilite zone-ish that the channel I was on was even talking about clean water )

fascinating attempt to distract;Nevertheless;

Either pay your water bill (or in your case your mom pays it) or your water gets shut off.

Simple.

Better than your 1 or 2 lines saying the exact same thing, over and over again in every post, as if you were programmed to say such, without an inkling of thought or reason!

 

[Mathbud1]

Anything we decide is a right, is a right. We can certainly put forth criteria upon which we will base that determination.

Just to repeat the far left mentality on "rights"...

Wait, wait, wait..........

You think that We The People can't decide what a Right is?

We can decide what is a Right and that's in the Constitution. We can even change the Constitution if it becomes outdated and doesn't apply to current times, it was written to do so.

Tell me why the people determining what a right is wrong in your opinion. You probably think only GOVERNMENT knows what a Right is. Many Republicans today hate Government but think that it can never be changed because the people are stupid for some reason. This ideology has to change.

If we can arbitrarily decide what is a right, we can arbitrarily decide what isn't a right. Do you want us stripping rights away as well?

 

[Care4all]

They can walk down to the Detroit river with a bucket and get all the water they want or can carry, and its FREE.

your water bill is for the piping and pumps and filters that bring it into your house, not the water itself.

That comment was devoid of thought or reason...Redfish

can you imagine 40,000 people down at this place on the river that they can get water that you claim, all at once? And water is very heavy...and they need a lot of it to be able to flush their toilets, wash up and drink....if they have cars they would probably use their car to load the water in...is there a parking lot by 'the river' to hold 20,000 cars driving in and out of it?

 

[Care4all]

Just to repeat the far left mentality on "rights"...

Wait, wait, wait..........

You think that We The People can't decide what a Right is?

We can decide what is a Right and that's in the Constitution. We can even change the Constitution if it becomes outdated and doesn't apply to current times, it was written to do so.

Tell me why the people determining what a right is wrong in your opinion. You probably think only GOVERNMENT knows what a Right is. Many Republicans today hate Government but think that it can never be changed because the people are stupid for some reason. This ideology has to change.

If we can arbitrarily decide what is a right, we can arbitrarily decide what isn't a right. Do you want us stripping rights away as well?

The Bill Of Rights,

Was RIGHTS written by Men, and our founding fathers specifically gave men the right to add to or modify these Rights.

It would take 2/3's of both houses in Congress, and 2/3 of the States, to amend it...so it it a pretty hard thing to do, but as is history, it can be done and like I said, has been done...

We have inalienable rights, that can not be taken away by men...but that is not what we are talking about amending or adding to...

 

[Mathbud1]

Why is it you folks always take the most inhumane fucked up position on any issue?

Shutting off the water for people is despicable and patently stupid.

Those pipes are made to have water flowing through them all the time. Shutting the water off is crazy. Aside from drying up the seals? The pipes function best at a certain temperature which needs to be maintained.

I remember when I worked in a warehouse and the bosses got the brilliant idea of shutting off the heat. Kept it off all winter. Froze up the pipes.

Which all exploded and caused millions in damage.

That was a dumbfuck thing to do then..and it's a dumbfuck thing to do in Detroit.

Instead they should give the water away.

Even though providing the water costs money and the DWSD is already $5 billion in debt.

Oh and we can't have them raising water prices either because that would disadvantage even more poor folk.

So where exactly are we going to get the money to keep the water treatment facilities running again?

I would suggest, that their 5 billion in debt that Detroit's Water Facility is purportedly in, (even with Detroit having the HIGHEST COST FOR WATER IN THE NATION), is due to the City's mismanagement and NOT due to these citizens who are having trouble paying the highest prices for water in the Nation.

The article said that the Detroit water works facility fairly recently, laid off 600 WORKERS, and they seem to be doing just fine without them....they were over bloated....I'd say that's mismanagement.

And then there is this:

In Detroit, where 35 billion gallons of water leak from the city’s decaying water system each year, residents pay about $25 million annually for
water that never reaches homes or businesses.
14
With an unemployment rate of
20 percent and facing a $47 million budget shortfall by June 2012, the Motor
City is even less in a position to confront its water infrastructure needs.
15
Indeed,
in economically depressed cities such as Detroit, the burden for upgrading
municipal water systems will fall disproportionately on people living on fixed
incomes, low incomes, and the unemployed

Just think about it...in order to survive and live in today's society, we each use about the same amount of water a day...we need to all drink X amount, we all use the toilet about the same, we all take showers every day, we all cook with water occasionally....

But for those poorest among us, that water bill in Detroit that is super high, HITS them disproportionately in relation to their income....it would be harder for them to keep up with paying these high water bills compared with an average middle class family or a family that is wealthier....

So, mismanagement of the Detroit government, for decades, is what has put the Water Works Division of Detroit and IS THE ROOT of the problem....and yes, it was Democrats running the show there and they are at fault, at least for most of it, imo....and I am a Liberal, from birth, from head to toe, always have been and always will be!

=============================

As far as your other post regarding leaving businesses with running water while disconnecting 35000 or so Families.

I thought about the things you mentioned, before you even mentioned them! And the points are fuel for thought!

but I put a pencil to it, the best that I could without knowing all of the details regarding these businesses that were delinquent...so I used what I did know....

and what I did know is that 11% of all late bills, came from commercial businesses....and a figure of 40,000 was thrown out in the article about people being late....

11% of the 40k, is 4400 accounts, 4400 business accounts that were late, that accounted for 50% of the money past due.

The gvt decided, to get 50% of their money due, they would send hundreds of UNIONIZED, (meaning very high paying workers, and I have nothing against Union workers, but this is noted, due to knowing they get paid better than the average Joe out there) Waterworks Facility workers, out in to the city, to shut off 35,000 homes all at once, from receiving water and the use of their toilets....

When they could have sent dozens of workers out to shut off 4400 businesses, that owed the same amount of money.

Now as a Business person myself, I'd call that mismanagement of funds, when you are paying for 35000 shut offs, vs paying employees to shut off 4400 businesses, for the same amount of money recouped in return. And, my guess is that the Businesses, have more resources to borrow money and get money to pay their water bill than those that are poor and struggling, with no resources for extra money.

Let alone putting residents in risk of Cholera, and other disgusting and dangerous diseases....that the city would have to pay for and the federal government with medicaid or visits to the ER for the uninsured....let alone possible death....

In the 20th century, in the USA, the average life span for people grew by 35 years....30 of those added years to our lives, come from the government getting us clean water, and good sanitation....I just heard that this morning on a program I was watching on the history channel...(it was kind of Twilite zone-ish that the channel I was on was even talking about clean water )

"to shut off 35,000 homes all at once" - they didn't shut off the water to 35,000 homes all at once:

As part of that plan, in April and May the department shut off water service at a total of 7,556 locations. In June, the department redoubled those efforts, shutting off service at 7,210 locations in one month alone.

followed by:

The department also says that the majority of customers who have their water shut off experience a disruption in service for less than a day, because most people pay their bill soon after the shutoff begins.

The point I was trying to make is that shutting off water to a business affects more people directly than shutting off water to a residence. It is entirely possible (I don't know it for a fact) that shutting off water to the 11,000 delinquent businesses would affect more people than shutting off water to the entire 80,000 delinquent residents depending on the size of businesses.

Greg Eno, public affairs specialist with the DWSD, told RH Reality Check in an email that currently there is $89 million owed on some 91,000 delinquent accounts. Of those accounts, 80,000 are residential and 11,000 are commercial.

If a business is without water for even a day, they can be shut down for code violations because they can't provide water and facilities to their employees.

I'm not there, so I don't know the specifics of what businesses are late. I'm merely positing an opinion on why they might have chosen as they did.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The thing about rights...

If someone else has to provide the means to exercise a certain "right", especially if they are forced by the state to do so, the right in question is a privilege, not a right.

You have no more right to water than you do a Mercedes.

 

[Mathbud1]

This lady that the governor appointed for the Detroit Bankruptcy is insane...imo, and btw.

Let me get this straight, paying your bill 2 months late is equivalent to not paying your bill and getting "free stuff"?

And you all are worried that YOUR tax dollars are going to have to be used to pay for this "free stuff" these Black people get, even though this is CLEARLY the city of Detroit's Municipal taxes along with recipients bills paying for THEIR water system and it does not involve YOU at all?

And know that 78% I believe I read, of the citizens in Detroit ARE African American/Black, and it's their tax dollars that would go towards this, IF ANY CITY TAX DOLLARS AT ALL actually ever goes to pay for the water bills AT ALL!

....running 2 months behind on their bills, MEANS JUST THAT....they are running behind on paying them, BUT THEY ARE PAYING THEM,

NOT YOU
NOT the city of DETROIT

THESE PEOPLE ARE PAYING their OWN water bills, PLUS HUGE PENALTIES for them paying late that MORE than recoup's the city's loss on not getting paid on time.

What the city has chosen to do, because of the governor's appointee is a DISGRACE, and IS ONLY BEING DONE, because they want to sell their water responsibilities off to one lucky and friendly to them, Private Company/Corporation.

I CALL BULL CRUD!

You use 12 months of water. You pay for 10 months of water. You're not getting 2 months of water for free?

Not if you are continuing to pay your water bill....you are just behind on the bill, like you would be 2 months behind on an Auto loan, it all catches up in the end, and they are paying the late fees/penalties every single month since they are running behind, so it is not like the gvt doesn't have a good cash cow scam going there... it's not like they are going to move to another apartment and try to skip out on the bill...these ARE homeowners....many of them may even qualify for gvt help paying the water bills the article said, but there are some huge misunderstandings and hoops to jump through and the city office workers in charge of giving this help on water bills is dysfunctional, disorganized and have uninformed workers that have thrown these poor people asking for help in to a conundrum with disinformation...



For the most part, these people ARE NOT welfare people...these are the working poor, who own homes, not living in the projects or renting...

If they were welfare people or citizens on Public Assistance, they would AUTOMATICALLY qualify for the government help for water bills....and there would be no hoops to jump through to get some kind of help....is what the article also said.

They are not skipping 2 months of water bills for every year they have lived in their home....if they lived there for 20 years, these homeowners are behind 2 months out of 240 months of paying their bill.

Which all boils down to they still recieved 2 months of water that they have not yet paid for i.e. free water. That they are trying to pay for the water or intend to pay for the water doesn't mean anything yet. They have not paid for water that they used.

 

[Mathbud1]

Wait, wait, wait..........

You think that We The People can't decide what a Right is?

We can decide what is a Right and that's in the Constitution. We can even change the Constitution if it becomes outdated and doesn't apply to current times, it was written to do so.

Tell me why the people determining what a right is wrong in your opinion. You probably think only GOVERNMENT knows what a Right is. Many Republicans today hate Government but think that it can never be changed because the people are stupid for some reason. This ideology has to change.

If we can arbitrarily decide what is a right, we can arbitrarily decide what isn't a right. Do you want us stripping rights away as well?

The Bill Of Rights,

Was RIGHTS written by Men, and our founding fathers specifically gave men the right to add to or modify these Rights.

It would take 2/3's of both houses in Congress, and 2/3 of the States, to amend it...so it it a pretty hard thing to do, but as is history, it can be done and like I said, has been done...

We have inalienable rights, that can not be taken away by men...but that is not what we are talking about amending or adding to...

My point was, if we are hasty and arbitrary in adding rights, what is to stop us from taking a right away just as hastily. It should take great care and thought before calling something a "RIGHT."

 

[Care4all]

You use 12 months of water. You pay for 10 months of water. You're not getting 2 months of water for free?

Not if you are continuing to pay your water bill....you are just behind on the bill, like you would be 2 months behind on an Auto loan, it all catches up in the end, and they are paying the late fees/penalties every single month since they are running behind, so it is not like the gvt doesn't have a good cash cow scam going there... it's not like they are going to move to another apartment and try to skip out on the bill...these ARE homeowners....many of them may even qualify for gvt help paying the water bills the article said, but there are some huge misunderstandings and hoops to jump through and the city office workers in charge of giving this help on water bills is dysfunctional, disorganized and have uninformed workers that have thrown these poor people asking for help in to a conundrum with disinformation...



For the most part, these people ARE NOT welfare people...these are the working poor, who own homes, not living in the projects or renting...

If they were welfare people or citizens on Public Assistance, they would AUTOMATICALLY qualify for the government help for water bills....and there would be no hoops to jump through to get some kind of help....is what the article also said.

They are not skipping 2 months of water bills for every year they have lived in their home....if they lived there for 20 years, these homeowners are behind 2 months out of 240 months of paying their bill.

Which all boils down to they still recieved 2 months of water that they have not yet paid for i.e. free water. That they are trying to pay for the water or intend to pay for the water doesn't mean anything yet. They have not paid for water that they used.

yes, of course they should receive water, just as they have received water the past 20 years, while paying for it late....but that's never been a question in my mind...if they want to secure this 2 months worth, the gvt should put a lien on their home....so if they ever decide to leave and skip town without paying the 2 months in the rears, the gvt can get it upon sale of their home.

 

[Mathbud1]

The thing about rights...

If someone else has to provide the means to exercise a certain "right", especially if they are forced by the state to do so, the right in question is a privilege, not a right.

You have no more right to water than you do a Mercedes.

Here is a good discussion of rights:

Rights (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

It is uber complex.

Any right that does require someone to act for you imposes a duty on the other person. I would think to impose any duty on another person you would have to show compelling reasons why your right to have them perform the duty is more important than their right not to be forced to perform the duty.

In essence, can your right make me a slave?

 

[Mathbud1]

Not if you are continuing to pay your water bill....you are just behind on the bill, like you would be 2 months behind on an Auto loan, it all catches up in the end, and they are paying the late fees/penalties every single month since they are running behind, so it is not like the gvt doesn't have a good cash cow scam going there... it's not like they are going to move to another apartment and try to skip out on the bill...these ARE homeowners....many of them may even qualify for gvt help paying the water bills the article said, but there are some huge misunderstandings and hoops to jump through and the city office workers in charge of giving this help on water bills is dysfunctional, disorganized and have uninformed workers that have thrown these poor people asking for help in to a conundrum with disinformation...



For the most part, these people ARE NOT welfare people...these are the working poor, who own homes, not living in the projects or renting...

If they were welfare people or citizens on Public Assistance, they would AUTOMATICALLY qualify for the government help for water bills....and there would be no hoops to jump through to get some kind of help....is what the article also said.

They are not skipping 2 months of water bills for every year they have lived in their home....if they lived there for 20 years, these homeowners are behind 2 months out of 240 months of paying their bill.

Which all boils down to they still recieved 2 months of water that they have not yet paid for i.e. free water. That they are trying to pay for the water or intend to pay for the water doesn't mean anything yet. They have not paid for water that they used.

yes, of course they should receive water, just as they have received water the past 20 years, while paying for it late....but that's never been a question in my mind...if they want to secure this 2 months worth, the gvt should put a lien on their home....so if they ever decide to leave and skip town without paying the 2 months in the rears, the gvt can get it upon sale of their home.

You can live in a single family home and rent. I do. There is no evidence that I have seen that would lead me to believe that all of these people are homeowners. There is no evidence that I have seen that would necessarily mean that any of them are homeowners.

If liens are your answer, how do you maintain the water delivery system NOW, with money that you may get years down the road or never at all? They are massively in debt. Whatever the reasons for that debt, they have to have money to keep the facilities running.

 

[Care4all]

If we can arbitrarily decide what is a right, we can arbitrarily decide what isn't a right. Do you want us stripping rights away as well?

The Bill Of Rights,

Was RIGHTS written by Men, and our founding fathers specifically gave men the right to add to or modify these Rights.

It would take 2/3's of both houses in Congress, and 2/3 of the States, to amend it...so it it a pretty hard thing to do, but as is history, it can be done and like I said, has been done...

We have inalienable rights, that can not be taken away by men...but that is not what we are talking about amending or adding to...

My point was, if we are hasty and arbitrary in adding rights, what is to stop us from taking a right away just as hastily. It should take great care and thought before calling something a "RIGHT."

yes, very true...

But we can throw any words we want out there and call them what we want, but in actuality, it would take a near act of God, to amend the constitution with the 2/3's congress, Senate and States hurdle....and with the polar opposites the right and the left have become...

 

[FascismNOW]

I assert that superior humans should have the "right" to decide the line of work, privileges and general lifestyle of inferior humans.

Rights, as we understand the (mythical) concept, seem to be nothing more than naked assertions from ideologues, and as such my "right" deserves just as much consideration as any list of alleged rights from anyone else.

Superiors (with a capitol S, as defined in my A Cure For Societal Plague thread) have the right to restrict breeding to only those who will produce desirable offspring. A Superior has the right to "rape" (defined colloquially, as Inferiors will not have any notion of consent) any servant or sex-slave.

 

[Care4all]

Which all boils down to they still recieved 2 months of water that they have not yet paid for i.e. free water. That they are trying to pay for the water or intend to pay for the water doesn't mean anything yet. They have not paid for water that they used.

yes, of course they should receive water, just as they have received water the past 20 years, while paying for it late....but that's never been a question in my mind...if they want to secure this 2 months worth, the gvt should put a lien on their home....so if they ever decide to leave and skip town without paying the 2 months in the rears, the gvt can get it upon sale of their home.

You can live in a single family home and rent. I do. There is no evidence that I have seen that would lead me to believe that all of these people are homeowners. There is no evidence that I have seen that would necessarily mean that any of them are homeowners.

If liens are your answer, how do you maintain the water delivery system NOW, with money that you may get years down the road or never at all? They are massively in debt. Whatever the reasons for that debt, they have to have money to keep the facilities running.

you don't get a water bill if you rent, it is included in the rent....

*but let me go and do the research

 

[Desperado]

They can walk down to the Detroit river with a bucket and get all the water they want or can carry, and its FREE.

your water bill is for the piping and pumps and filters that bring it into your house, not the water itself.

That comment was devoid of thought or reason...Redfish

can you imagine 40,000 people down at this place on the river that they can get water that you claim, all at once? And water is very heavy...and they need a lot of it to be able to flush their toilets, wash up and drink....if they have cars they would probably use their car to load the water in...is there a parking lot by 'the river' to hold 20,000 cars driving in and out of it?

Redfish got it right, the charges are for water treatment and the infrastructure to get it to your home. If push came to shove, there are other ways for a home owner to get water.
A well for instance would work, even a catching rain water and storing it in a cistern as they did in early Key West would work. Demanding water for free then playing the victim card does not work.

 

[Mathbud1]

yes, of course they should receive water, just as they have received water the past 20 years, while paying for it late....but that's never been a question in my mind...if they want to secure this 2 months worth, the gvt should put a lien on their home....so if they ever decide to leave and skip town without paying the 2 months in the rears, the gvt can get it upon sale of their home.

You can live in a single family home and rent. I do. There is no evidence that I have seen that would lead me to believe that all of these people are homeowners. There is no evidence that I have seen that would necessarily mean that any of them are homeowners.

If liens are your answer, how do you maintain the water delivery system NOW, with money that you may get years down the road or never at all? They are massively in debt. Whatever the reasons for that debt, they have to have money to keep the facilities running.

you don't get a water bill if you rent, it is included in the rent.

That's not true in every case, and therefore not necessarily true in any given case.

I rent and I receive (and pay) a water bill separate from my rent. I also pay for power, natural gas, sewer, and trash. I do not pay the HOA fee as I am not the Home Owner and do not therefore belong to the Home Owners Association.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The thing about rights...

If someone else has to provide the means to exercise a certain "right", especially if they are forced by the state to do so, the right in question is a privilege, not a right.

You have no more right to water than you do a Mercedes.

Here is a good discussion of rights:

Rights (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

It is uber complex.

Any right that does require someone to act for you imposes a duty on the other person. I would think to impose any duty on another person you would have to show compelling reasons why your right to have them perform the duty is more important than their right not to be forced to perform the duty.

In essence, can your right make me a slave?

Forcing people to provide goods and services to others w/ compensation is involuntary servitude.
The state forcing people into involuntary servitude is tyranny.

 

[BluesMistress]

This is very interesting topic as I live in a state that owns all water rights. If I put a bucket in my backyard and rain drops falls into my bucket on my own property I have NO Right to that water. I don't agree. It came from heaven and fell into My Bucket...It should be my right to do what ever i want to do with that water. NOT SO it belongs to the state. I think if it's falling from the sky into my bucket without the need for it to be delivered from pipes into my home It's Mine.

I like to flush my toilet and take a hot shower. I turn the handle and conveniently water pours out on demand. I also pay a gas bill to heat the water stored in my water heater so I can take a hot shower any time I choose. If I want those service's I need to pay for them as I could not possibly collect that much water or heat that water for my hot shower.

If I don't want to pay for these "services" I can grab my tent and head for the hills. I've camped Many times in my life and I enjoy it. It's also a lot of work as I have to haul my own water then put it on the fire that I made after collecting wood to burn to heat my water. I have to cook on an open fire & Lucky for me, I brought some food or I would need to go hunt if I were hungry. I also have to poop in the woods that's Totally Not my fav....

I do these things for fun. It's a great get away weekend adventure but I do not want to live that way year round. So I have contracted with my city that I want water & gas year round provided I pay them a fee for the service. Do I have a right for these comforts..NO...You talk water right now but what is water if not heated. I can live on water for a while but at some point I'm going to get hungry also. After I eat I want to poop. I like the idea of going into my nice clean bathroom instead of my backyard..My dog has No problem with it. These are all Comforts Not Rights.

If I choose to live in a city & I want water I need to pay the bill as there is No other way to provide such services. I have no right to any service provided me for free Just as I get paid for the Job I do. I have no right to expect anyone to provide me anything...I have the Freedom to Pursue my Happiness but my happiness is not provided to me at other's expense. I need to work hard if I want to live in a nice place. There are many that live in small trailers and are very Happy & there are others that live in Large mansions. We are not all equal...We are born with inalienable rights but from there it's up to each individual to pursue their own happiness. If you need a drink of water I can be charitable & give you water but I am under no obligation or threat of persecution if i choose not to. I'm under no obligation to provide you the things you need to survive. That's up to each individual ~ It's called survival of the fittest.

Weird...I've had my water turned off when I didn't pay the bill. Never once did I ever expect anyone to pay my bill or think I have a Right to that water flowing into my home. Funny thing is when they turned it off I worked overtime and found a way to pay that bill. I like the water flowing or I can pitch a tent next to a stream and live off the land. It's My Right to Choose how I pursue my happiness but no one is obligated to provide me my happiness.

 

[Mathbud1]

This is very interesting topic as I live in a state that owns all water rights. If I put a bucket in my backyard and rain drops falls into my bucket on my own property I have NO Right to that water. I don't agree. It came from heaven and fell into My Bucket...It should be my right to do what ever i want to do with that water. NOT SO it belongs to the state. I think if it's falling from the sky into my bucket without the need for it to be delivered from pipes into my home It's Mine.

I like to flush my toilet and take a hot shower. I turn the handle and conveniently water pours out on demand. I also pay a gas bill to heat the water stored in my water heater so I can take a hot shower any time I choose. If I want those service's I need to pay for them as I could not possibly collect that much water or heat that water for my hot shower.

If I don't want to pay for these "services" I can grab my tent and head for the hills. I've camped Many times in my life and I enjoy it. It's also a lot of work as I have to haul my own water then put it on the fire that I made after collecting wood to burn to heat my water. I have to cook on an open fire & Lucky for me, I brought some food or I would need to go hunt if I were hungry. I also have to poop in the woods that's Totally Not my fav....

I do these things for fun. It's a great get away weekend adventure but I do not want to live that way year round. So I have contracted with my city that I want water & gas year round provided I pay them a fee for the service. Do I have a right for these comforts..NO...You talk water right now but what is water if not heated. I can live on water for a while but at some point I'm going to get hungry also. After I eat I want to poop. I like the idea of going into my nice clean bathroom instead of my backyard..My dog has No problem with it. These are all Comforts Not Rights.

If I choose to live in a city & I want water I need to pay the bill as there is No other way to provide such services. I have no right to any service provided me for free Just as I get paid for the Job I do. I have no right to expect anyone to provide me anything...I have the Freedom to Pursue my Happiness but my happiness is not provided to me at other's expense. I need to work hard if I want to live in a nice place. There are many that live in small trailers and are very Happy & there are others that live in Large mansions. We are not all equal...We are born with inalienable rights but from there it's up to each individual to pursue their own happiness. If you need a drink of water I can be charitable & give you water but I am under no obligation or threat of persecution if i choose not to. I'm under no obligation to provide you the things you need to survive. That's up to each individual ~ It's called survival of the fittest.

Weird...I've had my water turned off when I didn't pay the bill. Never once did I ever expect anyone to pay my bill or think I have a Right to that water flowing into my home. Funny thing is when they turned it off I worked overtime and found a way to pay that bill. I like the water flowing or I can pitch a tent next to a stream and live off the land. It's My Right to Choose how I pursue my happiness but no one is obligated to provide me my happiness.

I lived for almost two years in an environment where I, luckily, had running water most of the time, but where most people did not. Virtually nobody had heated water, including me. Power was spotty at best. Garbage was collected by a guy pushing a cart by hand. There was no such thing as natural gas piped into homes. Toilets were almost never tied into the water supply. The water, when it did run, was not safe to drink without running it through a 3-stage filter first. When the water didn't run we had to pay a guy who drove a tanker truck of water around to fill up a barrel in the house (which is what the majority of people had to do all the time.) All of this in a city of millions.

I'm WELL aware of what we can and cannot live without. I am WELL aware of the privilege it is to live in this country, and have the things we take for granted. The first hot shower after years of nothing but cold water was heaven on earth.