Is Violence Against Women EVER Justified?

[TrinityPower]

You just never know and let's be honest....the world is getting to be a scary place. When we were kids and someone said "I'm going to kill you" it meant "I might punch you". Today...they just might ******* kill you.

It's a real dilemma because there is justifiably a social stigma about a man hitting a woman, but there are those occasions...rare as they may be....where I think to myself "this is an exception...a rare exception....but an exception nonetheless."

When I was a kid and my older sister said "I'm going to kill you" she really meant she "will try to ******* kill you.

I sat down to eat what the sitter cooked & sissy got pissed because I ate what she said was her plate. She grabbed the hot skillet off the stove whacked me over the head with it from behind while I was sitting there eating. She immediately ran outside & I took off after her. She ran to the rifle my dad had left propped up against the swing set, grabbed it, took aim & pulled the trigger. I heard the click as I was staring down the barrel. Lucky for me it rained on it the day before so the firing pin was a bit rusty. It only slightly dimpled the chambered round.

I also saw her electrocute my brother with the cattle prod. The ***** is mean. I learned young not to let a crazy ***** attack you. Most people think women fighting is funny. It may look funny, but many of the aggressors will kill you if they had the chance.

Yikes! And I thought me daughter was bad when she was 4. She ran to the busy street at the end of our cul de sac and I said nope your wold just got smaller you are inside for the rest of the day. I went to the bathroom came out and during that brief time she had gotten a steak knife and was cutting my screen door open. Well I was not going to wrestle the knife from her that would be unsafe so I commanded she put it down but instead she threw it at me. I was not hurt but I was home alone with her and i am disabled so it was quite disturbing. Also one other time I had to take a mummy's time out so went to my room for a few moments to catch my breath. She got a butter knife and began to scratch my door all to crap. She will be 11 tomorrow and has since learned how to deal with her rage better but some people do not do so and grow up to be very violent people.

 

[BluePhantom]

I also saw her electrocute my brother with the cattle prod. The ***** is mean. I learned young not to let a crazy ***** attack you. Most people think women fighting is funny. It may look funny, but many of the aggressors will kill you if they had the chance.

My father was an oral surgeon and during his practice he had three women and one man that he was constantly having to put back together. I worked in his office as a kid and I remember him saying to them things like "this is the third time I have had to piece what's left of your face back together. I appreciate the business but this is money I would rather not have to make. How many more times am I going to be standing over you with a mask on? Next time it might be Dr. Stabenow" (who was a pathologist).

There's some crazy people in the world man

 

[BluePhantom]

You see, you're assuming that 'popping' someone would be the better choice if they had you cornered with a knife, a gun, or an axe or something. More than likely it would not be the better choice, just as in the example of your friend. You say she is trained in Krav Maga, which involves a lot of flurries of strikes and generally going batshit. Standing there and trying to 'pop' her would, unless you are a highly trained striker yourself, be giving her the best opportunity to use what she does well against you. On the other hand, controlling her would involve using the physics of the situation to your advantage given your greater size and (likely) strength. It's not necessarily a matter of being "gentle" about it, but rather taking the best approach to a given situation. And, you avoid the issues involved in actually striking a woman as this thread has concerned itself with.

Generally speaking I would agree, but how are you going to "control" a woman who is that highly trained in combat? Grab her? Good luck. You will never get your hands on her. Wrestle her to the floor? I tried that when we were just playing around....bad idea. She made it painfully obvious that she could have broken my arm at will. I tried using my weight advantage against her....she turned it right around on me and made it her advantage.

Now certainly someday she will run into a dog she can't take and she'll take one hell of a beating because there is always someone who is better. Perhaps you could take her...I don't know your training, your skills, your attributes, etc. But it's really not all that important whether you specifically could or could not. The vast majority of men would lose that particular fight.

So like I said...she's the exception and if I saw a guy fight with her the same way they would fight with another man, I would hold no negative opinion about that person because I know very well what kind of a situation they would be in. That's just me though and everyone is, of course, entitled to a different opinion.

 

[MikeK]

even when i was young and much stronger....most men could simply wrap one hand around both of my wrists...and hold my hands still.....i had a b/f who would do that....and call me 'girly' till i would want to kill him...most men can control the situation without going physical or punching a woman...

[...]

Exactly.

 

[Gadawg73]

Basically..a man who is attacked should be able to use enough force to stop the attack..and no more. Men are much stronger then women.

The least necessary amount of force, I agree, Sallow.

Along with teaching boys not to hit girls, we need to stress girls that punching boys is wrong also. "They can take it" is a stupid excuse and reveals the girl saying considers herself not his equal.

Speaking from experience here. My ex-wife tried to kill herself with a butcher knife on one occassion..and I had to wrestle the knife away from here. That wasn't easy. On another occassion she cold cocked me with a heavy stone statue and began pounding it into my cranium.

Good times.

Ex wife?
You mean "crazy, psycho *****".

 

[Unkotare]

Generally speaking I would agree, but how are you going to "control" a woman who is that highly trained in combat? Grab her?

Yes

Good luck. You will never get your hands on her.

Don't be ridiculous

Wrestle her to the floor?

Yes




If you (again, in general, not specifically you) are a man and you are walking around with so little idea of what to do with yourself that you cannot at least put your hands on a 100lbs woman if you absolutely have to, then you are being irresponsible.

 

[BDBoop]

Good point, and works with gender reversal as well (as stated earlier in the thread).

 

[BluePhantom]

If you (again, in general, not specifically you) are a man and you are walking around with so little idea of what to do with yourself that you cannot at least put your hands on a 100lbs woman if you absolutely have to, then you are being irresponsible.

Well I can tell you this. When I sparred with her I actually made three passes at her. Now keep in mind my earlier posts. I know how to handle myself and I am significantly bigger than she is. The first two times she didn't use Krav Maga (and in fact I had to almost beg her to use it the third time because she had refused...it being too dangerous), she used something else; judo or kickboxing...I don't know. The second attempt I made I tried to simply grab her and wrestle her to the ground as you suggest...ridiculous my ass, she threw me flat on my face and I was completely at her mercy.

The third attempt I got her to agree to use Krav Maga because I really wanted to experience it...let me tell you. I have been in a lot of fights in my life and I have never been hit and kicked that many times, that many places, and that fast in my life. I got in one swing (which didn't even connect) and within seconds I was face first on the ground (I hit so hard it gave me a black eye), I couldn't breathe, I felt like I was going to puke, my knee was screaming in agony, and she was on top of me with her knee in my head, my arm twisted behind me, one hand holding my wrist and the other hand against the back of my elbow. I was in a word..."fucked" and my body ached the entire next day.

Now I wasn't there to see what happened that night between Connie and her boyfriend. The story was that he hit her and she let loose on him. But I don't know whether he was so drunk he couldn't see straight, or what the exact circumstances were. But Connie's boyfriend was well over six feet tall and over 200 lbs. When I picked her up from jail (sigh) she had a split lip and he was in the hospital.

Now again....I realize that she is the exception. That kind of shit is not what your average woman can do...or man for that matter and so I would say that in 99% of the situations a man would run into, you would be absolutely correct. It's that 1% that can be the *****. Just because you are more physically imposing doesn't mean you are necessarily guaranteed to be able to protect yourself, especially if your opponent knows what they are doing...or in Connie's case is an "expert".

We have kind of beaten this angle to death so I am not going to get much more into it except to say "I understand your opinion and respectfully disagree"

 

[Unkotare]

If you (again, in general, not specifically you) are a man and you are walking around with so little idea of what to do with yourself that you cannot at least put your hands on a 100lbs woman if you absolutely have to, then you are being irresponsible.

Well I can tell you this. When I sparred with her I actually made three passes at her. Now keep in mind my earlier posts. I know how to handle myself and I am significantly bigger than she is. The first two times she didn't use Krav Maga (and in fact I had to almost beg her to use it the third time because she had refused...it being too dangerous), she used something else; judo or kickboxing...I don't know. The second attempt I made I tried to simply grab her and wrestle her to the ground as you suggest...ridiculous my ass, she threw me flat on my face and I was completely at her mercy.

The third attempt I got her to agree to use Krav Maga because I really wanted to experience it...let me tell you. I have been in a lot of fights in my life and I have never been hit and kicked that many times, that many places, and that fast in my life. I got in one swing (which didn't even connect) and within seconds I was face first on the ground (I hit so hard it gave me a black eye), I couldn't breathe, I felt like I was going to puke, my knee was screaming in agony, and she was on top of me with her knee in my head, my arm twisted behind me, one hand holding my wrist and the other hand against the back of my elbow. I was in a word..."fucked" and my body ached the entire next day.

With all due respect, you need to consider that this says as much about you as it does her. But, I can see you don't want to discuss it further so that's fine.

 

[BDBoop]

If you (again, in general, not specifically you) are a man and you are walking around with so little idea of what to do with yourself that you cannot at least put your hands on a 100lbs woman if you absolutely have to, then you are being irresponsible.

Well I can tell you this. When I sparred with her I actually made three passes at her. Now keep in mind my earlier posts. I know how to handle myself and I am significantly bigger than she is. The first two times she didn't use Krav Maga (and in fact I had to almost beg her to use it the third time because she had refused...it being too dangerous), she used something else; judo or kickboxing...I don't know. The second attempt I made I tried to simply grab her and wrestle her to the ground as you suggest...ridiculous my ass, she threw me flat on my face and I was completely at her mercy.

The third attempt I got her to agree to use Krav Maga because I really wanted to experience it...let me tell you. I have been in a lot of fights in my life and I have never been hit and kicked that many times, that many places, and that fast in my life. I got in one swing (which didn't even connect) and within seconds I was face first on the ground (I hit so hard it gave me a black eye), I couldn't breathe, I felt like I was going to puke, my knee was screaming in agony, and she was on top of me with her knee in my head, my arm twisted behind me, one hand holding my wrist and the other hand against the back of my elbow. I was in a word..."fucked" and my body ached the entire next day.

Now I wasn't there to see what happened that night between Connie and her boyfriend. The story was that he hit her and she let loose on him. But I don't know whether he was so drunk he couldn't see straight, or what the exact circumstances were. But Connie's boyfriend was well over six feet tall and over 200 lbs. When I picked her up from jail (sigh) she had a split lip and he was in the hospital.

Now again....I realize that she is the exception. That kind of shit is not what your average woman can do...or man for that matter and so I would say that in 99% of the situations a man would run into, you would be absolutely correct. It's that 1% that can be the *****. Just because you are more physically imposing doesn't mean you are necessarily guaranteed to be able to protect yourself, especially if your opponent knows what they are doing...or in Connie's case is an "expert".

We have kind of beaten this angle to death so I am not going to get much more into it except to say "I understand your opinion and respectfully disagree"

Anybody who has ever been clawed by a cat knows what kind of hurt a woman can inflict in a 'cat fight'. It's ridiculous to assume that she can't unleash some serious damage if she puts her mind to it, training or no training.

 

[BluePhantom]

With all due respect, you need to consider that this says as much about you as it does her. But, I can see you don't want to discuss it further so that's fine.

You can certainly look at it that way if you wish, but considering that she made mincemeat out of a guy much bigger than me as well and several others to boot (the girl likes to fight when she drinks and that wasn't the first time I had to go pull her out of the clink), I feel no threat to my sense of manliness admitting that the girl whipped my ass. If I was the only man she had done it to, I might feel shame.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I know two women (one 5'5", the other 5'3") who would clean a guy's clock if he were not aware of what they were capable of doing. Unkotare, no matter how good, would stand a good chance of being spun on his leg a top by these girls if he were not aware of their abilities.

 

[BluePhantom]

Anybody who has ever been clawed by a cat knows what kind of hurt a woman can inflict in a 'cat fight'. It's ridiculous to assume that she can't unleash some serious damage if she puts her mind to it, training or no training.

There was one guy who really caused her some problems. It's actually how Connie and I met. She was a student of mine and her boyfriend was in the same class with her so i saw them both a couple times a week. Both of them would come in battered over and over and of course it was the typical "walked into the door" bullshit excuses and it didn't take long for me to pull her aside and say "quit lying to me, you have to get out of that situation before one of you ends up dead". So I helped her get away from the guy and after she graduated we developed a friendship.

Yeah that guy gave her quite a run for her money, but he was an ex-Marine so he was pretty highly trained himself and from what I saw of the two of them it looked to me like he usually got the worst of it. She was a piece of work though...I have never known a girl that loved to fight like her....and frankly I hope I never meet another one.

 

[Unkotare]

I know two women (one 5'5", the other 5'3") who would clean a guy's clock if he were not aware of what they were capable of doing. Unkotare, no matter how good, would stand a good chance of being spun on his leg a top by these girls if he were not aware of their abilities.

Are they cute?

 

[BluePhantom]

Well I think this thread has gone as far as it's going to go. Seems to me we have pretty much covered all the angles so I suppose I will sum up my position on the question. This is just the way I look at it and certainly not everyone will endorse my position.

1) I think any person (man or woman) has the right to defend themselves against an attack, whether the attacker be male or female, using "necessary and appropriate" force in order to ensure their safety or the safety of others.

2) What exactly is "necessary and appropriate" depends on the situation. I agree that if it's possible to restrain a woman or simply defend yourself rather than hit her directly that's the best way to go, but I do recognize that there are those rare situations (and I want to emphasize the word "rare") when, despite my distaste for such actions, it may become necessary to clock her.

3) In regard to example #1 in the OP, I applaud my friend for his course of actions. It's a little easier for me to judge it as I witnessed it and had a better understanding of the nuances of the situation.

4) In regards to examples #2 and #3 in the OP...it's a tough one for me. Did those men do "the right thing"? No. Were they "justified"? Probably not. Do I understand why they did it? Absolutely. Did the women deserve it? I don't think "deserve" is the right word. I would have to say: "probably not but neither do I have any sympathy for them whatsoever". I think BDBoop made a great point about rattlesnakes and scorpions. If you **** with a rattlesnake you can't act all shocked when you get bit. I think it's a shitty way to learn it and I can't endore the actions of the men in question, but I have no doubt that those women will think twice the next time they are tempted to engage in verbal abuse or using their gender to bully someone.

5) Lastly....it's a crazy, dangerous world and you just never know who you are dealing with. We see stories on the news every day in every city about someone getting beaten within an inch of their life or beyond. If I am the one being attacked, I would err on the side of my own self-preservation and the safety of my family rather than make assumptions about my attacker that turn out to be false and a member of my family or I end up dead.


If anything else interesting comes up I will chime in but I think we've covered all the bases at this point.

 

[KissMy]

Anybody who has ever been clawed by a cat knows what kind of hurt a woman can inflict in a 'cat fight'. It's ridiculous to assume that she can't unleash some serious damage if she puts her mind to it, training or no training.

Yup! - Most fights are just macho sparing matches. But if someone is really out to inflict major damage or kill you, you had best be prepared to fight back. (ie: jam a finger into your eye, kick you hard in the knee, stab or club you from behind, bite off a body part, shoot you, poison) I could go on & on.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Anybody who has ever been clawed by a cat knows what kind of hurt a woman can inflict in a 'cat fight'. It's ridiculous to assume that she can't unleash some serious damage if she puts her mind to it, training or no training.

Yup! - Most fights are just macho sparing matches. But if someone is really out to inflict major damage or kill you, you had best be prepared to fight back. (ie: jam a finger into your eye, kick you hard in the knee, stab or club you from behind, bite off a body part, shoot you, poison) I could go on & on.

Two of my favorite moves if I'm ever confronted...................

If the person grabs you around the neck from the front? Simple, flatten your hands, move your arms in curves up through the space between their arms and push out, then returning with your hands to clap them on the ears.

If they grab you around the neck from the back? Use the arm opposite the attackers arm and grab the elbow, dropping to your knee on whichever side the attacker grabs you from.

 

[BluePhantom]

Anybody who has ever been clawed by a cat knows what kind of hurt a woman can inflict in a 'cat fight'. It's ridiculous to assume that she can't unleash some serious damage if she puts her mind to it, training or no training.

Yup! - Most fights are just macho sparing matches. But if someone is really out to inflict major damage or kill you, you had best be prepared to fight back. (ie: jam a finger into your eye, kick you hard in the knee, stab or club you from behind, bite off a body part, shoot you, poison) I could go on & on.

I made reference to this earlier in the thread and I was talking to Trinity about it this morning. I have noticed there's big differences in how people fight from place to place. For example in Idaho where I grew up it's very much a "nose to nose, mano a mano" thing between two people. If there's a group of people, usually only two will actually fight and the rest will stand there and cheer and encourage their friend. It would be considered cowardly for more than one person to jump in on a single guy. It's pretty rare that beer bottles and pool cues get involved although it does happen...it's almost "gentlemanly" in a way.....i.e: "let's step outside and settle this like men". BUT fights happen a lot...I mean very frequently.

Now I realized when I lived in Phoenix, it's totally different. There's a lot of bitching at each other but an actual fight is far more rare....but they are also far more brutal. Everyone will jump in whether it's three to one or ten to one and it's a race to see who will get to the beer bottles and pool cues first. I theorize that it's because in Arizona there's a real possibility that the person you are messing with or one of his friends will just pull out a gun and shoot you where in Idaho that's almost unheard of. So in Phoenix it's far more important to get your opponent down and out for the count as fast as possible because in reality it's a far far more dangerous situation than in Idaho. In Idaho you might take an ass whipping but it's pretty doubtful that you are going to die because once someone gets to the point that they are defenseless everyone else will jump in and stop the fight and the guy who won is usually content to leave it at that because "it's been settled". That's frequently not the case in Phoenix.

I think it's interesting to note those differences

 

[Unkotare]

Two of my favorite moves if I'm ever confronted...................

If the person grabs you around the neck from the front? Simple, flatten your hands, move your arms in curves up through the space between their arms and push out, then returning with your hands to clap them on the ears.

If they grab you around the neck from the back? Use the arm opposite the attackers arm and grab the elbow, dropping to your knee on whichever side the attacker grabs you from.

...............................................................

 

[KissMy]

Yup! - Most fights are just macho sparing matches. But if someone is really out to inflict major damage or kill you, you had best be prepared to fight back. (ie: jam a finger into your eye, kick you hard in the knee, stab or club you from behind, bite off a body part, shoot you, poison) I could go on & on.

Two of my favorite moves if I'm ever confronted...................

If the person grabs you around the neck from the front? Simple, flatten your hands, move your arms in curves up through the space between their arms and push out, then returning with your hands to clap them on the ears.

If they grab you around the neck from the back? Use the arm opposite the attackers arm and grab the elbow, dropping to your knee on whichever side the attacker grabs you from.

This is the right way to do a choke hold that someone can't easily get out of. I do this to irrational people to make them pass out so I don't have to kill them or cause major damage. I rare back holding them with their feet off the ground out away from me to keep them from kicking me before they are out.