Is there secular redemption?

Votto

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Oct 31, 2012
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Since the dawn of time, man has struggled to find redemption from the pain and suffering and death in this present world, and through this struggle, various philosophies have arisen to try and find this redemption. There are religious philosophies that place God at the center of our redemption, and there are secular human philosophies that reject God entirely. Two of the most famous and influential secular philosophies were that of Karl Marx and Frederick Nietzsche. The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche have created their own gospels of redemption.

Marx is by far the most famous and influential secular philosopher. “Marx envisions a society that needs to be transformed from a stratified society to an egalitarian one.” The method of redemption is not a spiritual transformation. Instead, it is a transformation through materialism. The redemption of Marx can only be realized if the proletariat, or workers, provoke a revolution to restructure society in the name of equality and justice. “Julius Carlebach examines the claim that Marx was a ‘secular nineteenth-century version of an Old Testament prophet’, and concludes that Marx’s passionate devotion to the proletariat is a ‘displacement of the chosen people’ and that Communism is nothing more than a reconstruction of Judaism with Marx’s theories: The equality of men as a matter of right and not of grace. Justice as a matter of principle and not convenience. Reason based on learning as a virture and a duty, and this-worldliness which demanded the search for perfection on earth.” In short, the masses became their own deity, and in the glow of their redemption, they are enlightened and ennobled by their own divine purpose. In fact, Marx does not object to the ideals of religion as much as to the manipulations in the hands of the privileged classes, much like Christ standing up to the religious leaders and privileged classes of his day, and later crucified for it. But unlike Christ, Marx completely rejects the need for a God to find redemption from these oppressors. Instead, redemption will be achieved with world-wide socialism where everyone’s equal, but primarily equal through material equality which will bring about societal happiness and utopia. Marx’s redemption must be universal and not merely redemption on an individual basis. Either society as a whole is redeemed, or it is damned to an everlasting hell on earth, thus it must also be world wide. This is unlike Nietzsche who preached that redemption can be found on an individual basis, and is not held hostage by the universal masses.

Like Marx, Nietzsche sought to restore humans to their true divinity. This is because Nietzsche concluded that there are those who are not worthy of his enlightened message, as well as those unable to cognitively even grasp it. “Some human beings, Nietzsche holds, are nobler than others and should serve as models for humanity, and it is these free spirits who are able to overcome themselves and rise above the all-too-human mass”. In other words, redemption comes from a small group of spiritual elites, with Nietzsche, of course, leading the charge.

The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche were influential due to the fact that they helped form the basis of world governments. Two of the most famous world governments heavily influenced by them were the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Marx influenced both Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin as they preached redemption through the Soviet revolution of 1917. Conversely, Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime were heavily influenced by Nietzsche. This can be seen as Hitler and his elites did not come to be by revolution, but through the appointment of Hitler and the democratic votes that later elected other Nazis. They then stood out to the populace as the ideal model to be emulated. Luckily, the Nazi regime was later vanquished after world war 2 due to the evils it inflicted on the entire world, however, the Soviet regime remained and seemed to grow with more world wide Marxist influence.

It is understandable why the Nietzsche influenced Nazi model of government fell out of favor. It was both evil and corrupt and lost a major world war. But why did the Marx counterpart seem to flourish? Was it any less evil and corrupt? No if you consider that Stalin murdered millions more human beings than Hitler, and the fact that Marxism that later spread across the world in places like Red China and Cambodia oppressed and murdered hundreds of millions more. In fact, today those labeled a Nazi are automatically viewed world wide as a villain, however, those who call themselves Marxists seem to be revered the world over as on the cutting edge of enlightenment and social justice. Black Lives matter is one such organization that self identifies as Marxists as corporations all around the world sing their praise and pour millions of dollars into their organization. However, do they know that Marx himself was an ardent racist against blacks? In a letter Marx wrote to his friend Friedrich Engels in 1866, Marx writes that his black acquaintance Tremaux “proved that the common Negro type is the degenerate form of a much higher one”. So are the Marxists of today willing to ignore the pain and misery their ideology has inflicted upon mankind that is steeped in systemic racism so that they can try and attain his long term goal in mind of universal secular redemption, or are they simply unaware of it? It is hard to say. But the question must be asked, can redemption really be found in an ideology of Marxism that has already taken humanity to the lowest depths of hell?
 
Live a good live, a fulfilling life, do no harm, and there is no need to be redeemed.
 
Live a good live, a fulfilling life, do no harm, and there is no need to be redeemed.
The need for redemption is universal, whether you be of faith or not.

That is why we even have government in the first place.

Mankind are like sheep, looking for that one shepherd to save them from all the wolves.

And if one were to look inward and be honest about that assessment, they would come to the conclusion that something is not only amiss with the world around them, but also with themselves because even though we innately know to do no harm, we at times inexplicably do.
 
Live a good live, a fulfilling life, do no harm, and there is no need to be redeemed.
Redemption is restoration. Not many of us can go through a day, much less an entire lifetime without noting that at some time we weren't at our best, that we could have done better.

Christ brought redemption to the world. In secular terms:
  • Turn away from what you did wrong.
  • In the future, replace that wrong act with a right one.
  • Seek the ideal and strive to fulfill it.
  • Sins (missing the ideal mark) are forgiven when one turns from the sin.
  • This opens the way to eternal life.
Christians believe Christ gave up his life and then rose again as a sign of this new covenant/testament with God.

For secular people with no belief in Christ/God, try the above and observe if this can restore you to the person you once were or wish to become. When you begin to feel your life has been restored, you will understand what is meant by redemption, that Jesus paid with his life to bring this message to mankind.
 
Redemption is restoration. Not many of us can go through a day, much less an entire lifetime without noting that at some time we weren't at our best, that we could have done better.

Christ brought redemption to the world. In secular terms:
  • Turn away from what you did wrong.
  • In the future, replace that wrong act with a right one.
  • Seek the ideal and strive to fulfill it.
  • Sins (missing the ideal mark) are forgiven when one turns from the sin.
  • This opens the way to eternal life.
Christians believe Christ gave up his life and then rose again as a sign of this new covenant/testament with God.

For secular people with no belief in Christ/God, try the above and observe if this can restore you to the person you once were or wish to become. When you begin to feel your life has been restored, you will understand what is meant by redemption, that Jesus paid with his life to bring this message to mankind.
It is interesting to note that both Marx and Nietzsche had a Christian background

But for them the Christian redemption was not enough, coupled by hypocrisy they saw in the church.

So they demanded something more, but what they got, made the world much worse.

I'm confident both Marx and Nietzsche would have been horrified at the governments they inspired.

But to be fair, I don't think tyrants are dedicated to either philosophy, rather, they are merely drawn to Marxism because it requires the state to increase its power and scope over the population to even have a chance of working, so that all financial transactions can be monitored, approved, and redistributed by the enlightened elitists Nietzsche spoke of.
 
Since the dawn of time, man has struggled to find redemption from the pain and suffering and death in this present world, and through this struggle, various philosophies have arisen to try and find this redemption. There are religious philosophies that place God at the center of our redemption, and there are secular human philosophies that reject God entirely. Two of the most famous and influential secular philosophies were that of Karl Marx and Frederick Nietzsche. The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche have created their own gospels of redemption.

Marx is by far the most famous and influential secular philosopher. “Marx envisions a society that needs to be transformed from a stratified society to an egalitarian one.” The method of redemption is not a spiritual transformation. Instead, it is a transformation through materialism. The redemption of Marx can only be realized if the proletariat, or workers, provoke a revolution to restructure society in the name of equality and justice. “Julius Carlebach examines the claim that Marx was a ‘secular nineteenth-century version of an Old Testament prophet’, and concludes that Marx’s passionate devotion to the proletariat is a ‘displacement of the chosen people’ and that Communism is nothing more than a reconstruction of Judaism with Marx’s theories: The equality of men as a matter of right and not of grace. Justice as a matter of principle and not convenience. Reason based on learning as a virture and a duty, and this-worldliness which demanded the search for perfection on earth.” In short, the masses became their own deity, and in the glow of their redemption, they are enlightened and ennobled by their own divine purpose. In fact, Marx does not object to the ideals of religion as much as to the manipulations in the hands of the privileged classes, much like Christ standing up to the religious leaders and privileged classes of his day, and later crucified for it. But unlike Christ, Marx completely rejects the need for a God to find redemption from these oppressors. Instead, redemption will be achieved with world-wide socialism where everyone’s equal, but primarily equal through material equality which will bring about societal happiness and utopia. Marx’s redemption must be universal and not merely redemption on an individual basis. Either society as a whole is redeemed, or it is damned to an everlasting hell on earth, thus it must also be world wide. This is unlike Nietzsche who preached that redemption can be found on an individual basis, and is not held hostage by the universal masses.

Like Marx, Nietzsche sought to restore humans to their true divinity. This is because Nietzsche concluded that there are those who are not worthy of his enlightened message, as well as those unable to cognitively even grasp it. “Some human beings, Nietzsche holds, are nobler than others and should serve as models for humanity, and it is these free spirits who are able to overcome themselves and rise above the all-too-human mass”. In other words, redemption comes from a small group of spiritual elites, with Nietzsche, of course, leading the charge.

The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche were influential due to the fact that they helped form the basis of world governments. Two of the most famous world governments heavily influenced by them were the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Marx influenced both Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin as they preached redemption through the Soviet revolution of 1917. Conversely, Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime were heavily influenced by Nietzsche. This can be seen as Hitler and his elites did not come to be by revolution, but through the appointment of Hitler and the democratic votes that later elected other Nazis. They then stood out to the populace as the ideal model to be emulated. Luckily, the Nazi regime was later vanquished after world war 2 due to the evils it inflicted on the entire world, however, the Soviet regime remained and seemed to grow with more world wide Marxist influence.

It is understandable why the Nietzsche influenced Nazi model of government fell out of favor. It was both evil and corrupt and lost a major world war. But why did the Marx counterpart seem to flourish? Was it any less evil and corrupt? No if you consider that Stalin murdered millions more human beings than Hitler, and the fact that Marxism that later spread across the world in places like Red China and Cambodia oppressed and murdered hundreds of millions more. In fact, today those labeled a Nazi are automatically viewed world wide as a villain, however, those who call themselves Marxists seem to be revered the world over as on the cutting edge of enlightenment and social justice. Black Lives matter is one such organization that self identifies as Marxists as corporations all around the world sing their praise and pour millions of dollars into their organization. However, do they know that Marx himself was an ardent racist against blacks? In a letter Marx wrote to his friend Friedrich Engels in 1866, Marx writes that his black acquaintance Tremaux “proved that the common Negro type is the degenerate form of a much higher one”. So are the Marxists of today willing to ignore the pain and misery their ideology has inflicted upon mankind that is steeped in systemic racism so that they can try and attain his long term goal in mind of universal secular redemption, or are they simply unaware of it? It is hard to say. But the question must be asked, can redemption really be found in an ideology of Marxism that has already taken humanity to the lowest depths of hell?
Please define "redemption" as used in your post.
 
It is interesting to note that both Marx and Nietzsche had a Christian background

But for them the Christian redemption was not enough, coupled by hypocrisy they saw in the church.

So they demanded something more, but what they got, made the world much worse.

I'm confident both Marx and Nietzsche would have been horrified at the governments they inspired.

But to be fair, I don't think tyrants are dedicated to either philosophy, rather, they are merely drawn to Marxism because it requires the state to increase its power and scope over the population to even have a chance of working, so that all financial transactions can be monitored, approved, and redistributed by the enlightened elitists Nietzsche spoke of.
Ideology Is a Spitball Fight at a Prep School

A Marxist gets his sense of being one of the elite guardians solely because of his Daddy's Money. Eliminate birth privileges and we won't be ruled by such spoiled, sheltered, conceited, and bossy Affluenzists.
 
Since the dawn of time, man has struggled to find redemption from the pain and suffering and death in this present world, and through this struggle, various philosophies have arisen to try and find this redemption. There are religious philosophies that place God at the center of our redemption, and there are secular human philosophies that reject God entirely. Two of the most famous and influential secular philosophies were that of Karl Marx and Frederick Nietzsche. The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche have created their own gospels of redemption.

Marx is by far the most famous and influential secular philosopher. “Marx envisions a society that needs to be transformed from a stratified society to an egalitarian one.” The method of redemption is not a spiritual transformation. Instead, it is a transformation through materialism. The redemption of Marx can only be realized if the proletariat, or workers, provoke a revolution to restructure society in the name of equality and justice. “Julius Carlebach examines the claim that Marx was a ‘secular nineteenth-century version of an Old Testament prophet’, and concludes that Marx’s passionate devotion to the proletariat is a ‘displacement of the chosen people’ and that Communism is nothing more than a reconstruction of Judaism with Marx’s theories: The equality of men as a matter of right and not of grace. Justice as a matter of principle and not convenience. Reason based on learning as a virture and a duty, and this-worldliness which demanded the search for perfection on earth.” In short, the masses became their own deity, and in the glow of their redemption, they are enlightened and ennobled by their own divine purpose. In fact, Marx does not object to the ideals of religion as much as to the manipulations in the hands of the privileged classes, much like Christ standing up to the religious leaders and privileged classes of his day, and later crucified for it. But unlike Christ, Marx completely rejects the need for a God to find redemption from these oppressors. Instead, redemption will be achieved with world-wide socialism where everyone’s equal, but primarily equal through material equality which will bring about societal happiness and utopia. Marx’s redemption must be universal and not merely redemption on an individual basis. Either society as a whole is redeemed, or it is damned to an everlasting hell on earth, thus it must also be world wide. This is unlike Nietzsche who preached that redemption can be found on an individual basis, and is not held hostage by the universal masses.

Like Marx, Nietzsche sought to restore humans to their true divinity. This is because Nietzsche concluded that there are those who are not worthy of his enlightened message, as well as those unable to cognitively even grasp it. “Some human beings, Nietzsche holds, are nobler than others and should serve as models for humanity, and it is these free spirits who are able to overcome themselves and rise above the all-too-human mass”. In other words, redemption comes from a small group of spiritual elites, with Nietzsche, of course, leading the charge.

The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche were influential due to the fact that they helped form the basis of world governments. Two of the most famous world governments heavily influenced by them were the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Marx influenced both Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin as they preached redemption through the Soviet revolution of 1917. Conversely, Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime were heavily influenced by Nietzsche. This can be seen as Hitler and his elites did not come to be by revolution, but through the appointment of Hitler and the democratic votes that later elected other Nazis. They then stood out to the populace as the ideal model to be emulated. Luckily, the Nazi regime was later vanquished after world war 2 due to the evils it inflicted on the entire world, however, the Soviet regime remained and seemed to grow with more world wide Marxist influence.

It is understandable why the Nietzsche influenced Nazi model of government fell out of favor. It was both evil and corrupt and lost a major world war. But why did the Marx counterpart seem to flourish? Was it any less evil and corrupt? No if you consider that Stalin murdered millions more human beings than Hitler, and the fact that Marxism that later spread across the world in places like Red China and Cambodia oppressed and murdered hundreds of millions more. In fact, today those labeled a Nazi are automatically viewed world wide as a villain, however, those who call themselves Marxists seem to be revered the world over as on the cutting edge of enlightenment and social justice. Black Lives matter is one such organization that self identifies as Marxists as corporations all around the world sing their praise and pour millions of dollars into their organization. However, do they know that Marx himself was an ardent racist against blacks? In a letter Marx wrote to his friend Friedrich Engels in 1866, Marx writes that his black acquaintance Tremaux “proved that the common Negro type is the degenerate form of a much higher one”. So are the Marxists of today willing to ignore the pain and misery their ideology has inflicted upon mankind that is steeped in systemic racism so that they can try and attain his long term goal in mind of universal secular redemption, or are they simply unaware of it? It is hard to say. But the question must be asked, can redemption really be found in an ideology of Marxism that has already taken humanity to the lowest depths of hell?
Its simple: Ideologies separate us............pain, suffering, life in general bring us together. God has no respect of person. Ideologies differ and bring dishonor toward opposing ideologies. We are told to Honor everyone (1 Peter 2:17), regardless of ideology.........we do this by obeying the greatest commandment from God........Love God.

We show our love toward God through the simplicity of TRUTH. What is truth? The word of God is truth (John 17:17)


To address the topic of this thread with Honor, Love and "TRUTH"...........God's truth (found in the Word of God). There is only one path to salvation. What are we being saved from? From a wicked world (Acts 2:40). We are all dead in our sin, but made alive through Jesus Christ. By the grace of God we are saved from the ultimate outcome of this wicked world (eternal death.......separation from from God)..........we all are born with an expiration date (no one will leave this realm called reality.....alive). Jesus came to earth to save us (1 Tim. 1:15). The very (literal) name Jesus means Savior. (Matt. 1:21). The effect that sin has on everyone is death (Rom. 6:23).

"I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (Jesus)." -- John 14:6
 
There's no election fraud and no, you ain't gonna get your little bullshit, bubble-gum civil war! Stop crying and blaming others because YOU have nothing to offer the country!
 
The need for redemption is universal, whether you be of faith or not.

That is why we even have government in the first place.

Mankind are like sheep, looking for that one shepherd to save them from all the wolves.

And if one were to look inward and be honest about that assessment, they would come to the conclusion that something is not only amiss with the world around them, but also with themselves because even though we innately know to do no harm, we at times inexplicably do.

redemption from what - if there is something needing to be redeemed that would come first, the goal irregardless is to free one's spirit from the passing of their finite physiology.

essentially the point made by marx, there is not a need for church and religious encumbrances (votto - redemption) in living a wholesome life and individuals would be more apt to succeed without them.
 
Live a good live, a fulfilling life, do no harm, and there is no need to be redeemed.
It might be that rejecting Father in Heaven and his plan of salvation is doing harm to those you influence. The fact is, you can live a good life based on your own definition of a "good life." But, it may be contrary to what Father in Heaven says is a good life. So, maybe it's better to realize that we all sin and transgress the law of Heaven every day and simply repent of those things we do wrong and for those things we don't know are wrong...
 
Since the dawn of time, man has struggled to find redemption from the pain and suffering and death in this present world, and through this struggle, various philosophies have arisen to try and find this redemption. There are religious philosophies that place God at the center of our redemption, and there are secular human philosophies that reject God entirely. Two of the most famous and influential secular philosophies were that of Karl Marx and Frederick Nietzsche. The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche have created their own gospels of redemption.

Marx is by far the most famous and influential secular philosopher. “Marx envisions a society that needs to be transformed from a stratified society to an egalitarian one.” The method of redemption is not a spiritual transformation. Instead, it is a transformation through materialism. The redemption of Marx can only be realized if the proletariat, or workers, provoke a revolution to restructure society in the name of equality and justice. “Julius Carlebach examines the claim that Marx was a ‘secular nineteenth-century version of an Old Testament prophet’, and concludes that Marx’s passionate devotion to the proletariat is a ‘displacement of the chosen people’ and that Communism is nothing more than a reconstruction of Judaism with Marx’s theories: The equality of men as a matter of right and not of grace. Justice as a matter of principle and not convenience. Reason based on learning as a virture and a duty, and this-worldliness which demanded the search for perfection on earth.” In short, the masses became their own deity, and in the glow of their redemption, they are enlightened and ennobled by their own divine purpose. In fact, Marx does not object to the ideals of religion as much as to the manipulations in the hands of the privileged classes, much like Christ standing up to the religious leaders and privileged classes of his day, and later crucified for it. But unlike Christ, Marx completely rejects the need for a God to find redemption from these oppressors. Instead, redemption will be achieved with world-wide socialism where everyone’s equal, but primarily equal through material equality which will bring about societal happiness and utopia. Marx’s redemption must be universal and not merely redemption on an individual basis. Either society as a whole is redeemed, or it is damned to an everlasting hell on earth, thus it must also be world wide. This is unlike Nietzsche who preached that redemption can be found on an individual basis, and is not held hostage by the universal masses.

Like Marx, Nietzsche sought to restore humans to their true divinity. This is because Nietzsche concluded that there are those who are not worthy of his enlightened message, as well as those unable to cognitively even grasp it. “Some human beings, Nietzsche holds, are nobler than others and should serve as models for humanity, and it is these free spirits who are able to overcome themselves and rise above the all-too-human mass”. In other words, redemption comes from a small group of spiritual elites, with Nietzsche, of course, leading the charge.

The philosophies of both Marx and Nietzsche were influential due to the fact that they helped form the basis of world governments. Two of the most famous world governments heavily influenced by them were the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Marx influenced both Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin as they preached redemption through the Soviet revolution of 1917. Conversely, Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime were heavily influenced by Nietzsche. This can be seen as Hitler and his elites did not come to be by revolution, but through the appointment of Hitler and the democratic votes that later elected other Nazis. They then stood out to the populace as the ideal model to be emulated. Luckily, the Nazi regime was later vanquished after world war 2 due to the evils it inflicted on the entire world, however, the Soviet regime remained and seemed to grow with more world wide Marxist influence.

It is understandable why the Nietzsche influenced Nazi model of government fell out of favor. It was both evil and corrupt and lost a major world war. But why did the Marx counterpart seem to flourish? Was it any less evil and corrupt? No if you consider that Stalin murdered millions more human beings than Hitler, and the fact that Marxism that later spread across the world in places like Red China and Cambodia oppressed and murdered hundreds of millions more. In fact, today those labeled a Nazi are automatically viewed world wide as a villain, however, those who call themselves Marxists seem to be revered the world over as on the cutting edge of enlightenment and social justice. Black Lives matter is one such organization that self identifies as Marxists as corporations all around the world sing their praise and pour millions of dollars into their organization. However, do they know that Marx himself was an ardent racist against blacks? In a letter Marx wrote to his friend Friedrich Engels in 1866, Marx writes that his black acquaintance Tremaux “proved that the common Negro type is the degenerate form of a much higher one”. So are the Marxists of today willing to ignore the pain and misery their ideology has inflicted upon mankind that is steeped in systemic racism so that they can try and attain his long term goal in mind of universal secular redemption, or are they simply unaware of it? It is hard to say. But the question must be asked, can redemption really be found in an ideology of Marxism that has already taken humanity to the lowest depths of hell?

Marxist philosophy has nothing to do with redemption, it simply critiques capitalism and offers a better solution for producing the goods that we consume and organizing a society in a way that increases human solidarity, happiness, and freedom. According to Marx, communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. This type of society can only exist under very primitive conditions as we once had when we were hunter-gatherers, during the stone age:

Paleolithic-Age-Lifestyle.jpg


2022-11-16_6-27-37.png

...or in a very technologically advanced society where the products that we consume are produced quickly without much labor if any at all.


2022-11-16_5-39-43.png


maxresdefault.jpg


121434169_wb98369bf-60fb-42ee-ab97-94dd4f91d9c0.gif


Communism is categorized as "primitive communism" and later-stage "high communism".

In between primitive and high communism, there is socialism. Socialism is the process that leads to high-communism.

As far as religion and its idea of a deity, that has nothing to do with Marxist socialism or communism. One can be a Christian socialist or communist, a Muslim communist, a Buddhist or Hindu communist, and of course, one can be a communist that has no religion or belief in a deity. Most communists are atheists but that isn't a requirement for being a communist or agreeing with the Marxist critique of capitalism.
 
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Marxist philosophy has nothing to do with redemption, it simply critiques capitalism and offers a better solution for producing the goods that we consume and organizing a society in a way that increases human solidarity, happiness, and freedom. According to Marx, communism is a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. This type of society can only exist under very primitive conditions as we once had when we were hunter-gatherers, during the stone age:


...or in a very technologically advanced society where the products that we consume are produced quickly without much labor if any at all.


Communism is categorized as "primitive communism" and later-stage "high communism".

In between primitive and high communism, there is socialism. Socialism is the process that leads to high-communism.

As far as religion and its idea of a deity, that has nothing to do with Marxist socialism or communism. One can be a Christian socialist or communist, a Muslim communist, a Buddhist or Hindu communist, and of course, one can be a communist that has no religion or belief in a deity. Most communists are atheists but that isn't a requirement for being a communist or agreeing with the Marxist critique of capitalism.

As far as religion and its idea of a deity, that has nothing to do with Marxist socialism or communism. One can be a Christian socialist or communist, a Muslim communist ...
Most communists are atheists but that isn't a requirement for being a communist or agreeing with the Marxist critique of capitalism.

that's a fine line -

not having to be an atheist to be a communist - and the desert religions being communist are not simultaneously the same.

the desert religions are based on servitude subliminally to monarchical rule without self determination ...

self determination they accuse communism of abandoning for the state when that is what they themselves require w/ zero tolerance for an indeterminant existance they base on publications and commandments written for them they force onto suceeding generations without the liest amount of verification for any of their beliefs.
 
that's a fine line -

not having to be an atheist to be a communist - and the desert religions being communist are not simultaneously the same.

the desert religions are based on servitude subliminally to monarchical rule without self determination ...

self determination they accuse communism of abandoning for the state when that is what they themselves require w/ zero tolerance for an indeterminant existance they base on publications and commandments written for them they force onto suceeding generations without the liest amount of verification for any of their beliefs.
Religion can mislead people and create a lot of problems. Unnecessary complications.
 
Religion can also guide people and both solve/prevent problems.
It can, but at what cost? Is it worth it? In the long-term, I believe it's detrimental but nonetheless, I believe people should have the freedom to practice their religion, whatever that might be.
 
It can, but at what cost? Is it worth it? In the long-term, I believe it's detrimental but nonetheless, I believe people should have the freedom to practice their religion, whatever that might be.
Are you against alcohol consumption and fire because of all the damage they have caused down through the ages? Think of all the diabetes and health problems sugar has caused. Shall we ban that as well?
 

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