Is There A God?

[Spare_change]

As an add-on ...

Buck, I've noticed a constant theme in your posts that God is vindictive, that he is cruel, that he is mean. You say that God says if we don't do what he says, we will be barred from Heaven.

I wonder two things:

1) What are you angry with God?

2) What makes you think he is mean and vindictive? It is quite the contrary. God has taught us that there is a path to eternal life. He sacrificed his son so that we could use that path. If WE wander off that path, then we will reap the consequences. It isn't Him making the decision - passing judgement, if you will - it is US who decide whether we go to Heaven or not. Think of it as a set of guidelines ... we know the consequences of following the guidelines - and we know the consequences of not following the guidelines. HE doesn't decide if we go to heaven - WE do.

 

[yiostheoy]

I appreciate your concern for my "soul". Thank you. Now, please tell me what a "soul" is.

I am the originator of this thread - my position was the purpose of this threads creation.

How many gods are there and why does your god allow the other gods to exist? If he is the strongest god and a jealous god, why hasn't he destroyed the other gods? Why doesn't everybody in the world know about your god? How long is "eternity" and why should your god have mercy on my soul if I am not to his liking? Why would you even ask his mercy for me to me instead of praying for that mercy?

This is also yet another topic of Philosophy, not so much of Religion.

Religion tells you how to "save your soul" but never really defines it.

For a study of what the soul is you must delve into Modern Philosophy.

Again you are mixing apples and oranges.

 

[Buck111]

Since posting my original post in this thread, I have come to a conclusion.

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

To those who belong to something, whatever it is - it is what they belong to that is important; what they belong to is better than what anybody else belongs to. A strange phenomenon. Especially when you consider the following:

When you belong to something, you are owned by it - It is your master, and you, its slave. When people surrender their freedom to slavery based solely on beliefs, they surrender their responsibility for their own actions. They believe they are not accountable for the things they do as long as the things they do fall within the beliefs of that which they belong to. The jihadi believes it is his duty to blow himself and other people up because the religion he belongs to tells him it is the right thing to do; the air force pilot blows up the village filled with women and children because he believes the country he belongs to says it is the right thing to do; the abortion doctor aborts unborn children because the government he belongs to says it is legal to do so, and the AMA, which he also belongs to, says it is okay to do; the judge puts the person in jail for life for possessing a plant the government he belongs to says that is what he should do.

People do immoral things because the whatever they belong to takes the responsibility for the acts. It is like the slave who ties his fellow slave to a post and whips him for stealing a slice of bread. Morally it is not right, yet the plantation he belongs to says it is his duty. So he performs his duty and lays the blame at the feet of master, relieving his conscience of guilt. And his fellow slaves, who belong to the same plantation, accept it and absolve him from guilt.

I will no longer be looking for something to believe in. Instead I will spend my life looking at those things I know to be real, and live my life accordingly. A free human being cannot live on their knees believing a master he has never met is going to save his soul or feed him or care for his children. A free man knows that if he plants a seed and cares for it, that seed will bare fruit. From that seed he can feed his family and care for his children. Even believing in a god, he still has to plant his own seeds, so what good is believing in a god?

First of all -- this thread had nothing to do with your position. You were already close-minded when you started it. You were only looking for a soap box from which to pontificate.

As for the rest ---- it will definitely help the plants grow.

I congratulate you on your firm position - it's good that a man stands up for what he believes in -- even if it's for all eternity. I fo not. however, congratulate you on the substance of your position - you have missed, and will continue to miss, so much - for all of eternity.

May God have mercy on your soul.

I appreciate your concern for my "soul". Thank you. Now, please tell me what a "soul" is.

I am the originator of this thread - my position was the purpose of this threads creation.

How many gods are there and why does your god allow the other gods to exist? If he is the strongest god and a jealous god, why hasn't he destroyed the other gods? Why doesn't everybody in the world know about your god? How long is "eternity" and why should your god have mercy on my soul if I am not to his liking? Why would you even ask his mercy for me to me instead of praying for that mercy?

Why do you think other gods exist? My God is the one true god. All the rest of your questions become moot. There are those who think that Jesus has appeared several times - maybe as Mohammed, maybe as Buddha, maybe as something else. It is not for us to know. But, given the decided similarities of religious teaching, it is not outside the realm of possibility.

Everybody in the world DOES know about my God, but everybody in the world is given free will. They decide their future, not God. He only decides the result of your actions. If they decide not to follow Him, then their future is determined, and their path to Heaven is blocked.

As for your soul, I did not say that God WOULD have mercy on your soul, only that I'm asking. He makes the final decision - but you make it a slam dunk decision.

I'm not sure what you're asking in your last sentence, but I would hope that it would bring you some comfort to know that somebody is trying to intercede in your behalf.

Regarding the thread, you asked a question - clearly, not to hear the answer, but in order to pontificate your own beliefs. I wonder why you thought it necessary to ask others' opinions, when you really weren't the least bit interested in them. Then, to claim that this thread led you to a conclusion is, simply, a lie. And, we know where you go when you lie, don't we?

If you can't understand my very last question, how can you understand your religion and its many books? My question was simple.

I never said other gods exist. I ask why your god is not killing the other gods people believe in.

If 'Jesus' (whose name you obviously don't know or you would not be calling him "Jesus". Deja vu?) came as Buddha or Mohammad, why would he have taught differently than he did as "Jesus"? Logic.

Reread my first and my last post (30 pages apart), I did NOT ask for opinions, I gave my opinions. I took the time to THINK about what was logical between those many pages before concluding as I have. Hence, the 30 pages of separation. I made no claim this thread led me to my conclusion. None. My own reasoning and intelligence brought me to my conclusion. I read the bickerings and insults of posters attempting to justify their BELIEFS and, yes, that might have influenced my conclusion to some degree; maybe it sparked something in my brain...but those bickerings and insults were not the decider in what I have concluded.

I was indoctrinated into believing there is only one true god and I should please him. I defended that belief up until a couple of weeks ago. I was just as adamant in my beliefs as you are (difference being, I actually studied the bible and questioned my religious beliefs).

Instead of attacking me like a suicide bomber - tell me what is so great about your god and how does he show his love for the world? Tell me how your god is better than the god of Muslims or Jews or any religion? Tell me how your god condones the killing of Christians by ISIS and children in far way lands by American Christians and Jews? Tell me how your god is any better than your devil?

 

[Buck111]

I am mixing nothing. You can call it philosophy, I can call it pondering. Basically we are on the same page, you just wish to make it more intellectual than it actually is.

 

[Buck111]

As an add-on ...

Buck, I've noticed a constant theme in your posts that God is vindictive, that he is cruel, that he is mean. You say that God says if we don't do what he says, we will be barred from Heaven.

I wonder two things:

1) What are you angry with God

2) What makes you think he is mean and vindictive? It is quite the contrary. God has taught us that there is a path to eternal life. He sacrificed his son so that we could use that path. If WE wander off that path, then we will reap the consequences. It isn't Him making the decision - passing judgement, if you will - it is US who decide whether we go to Heaven or not. Think of it as a set of guidelines ... we know the consequences of following the guidelines - and we know the consequences of not following the guidelines. HE doesn't decide if we go to heaven - WE do.

1. How can I be angry at a being you believe in and I have my doubts of even existing?

2. How can I say YOUR god is mean and vindictive when you only identify him as "god". I gave you the name your "god" says to call him and you don't. If I don't know who your "god" is, how can I say anything about him? The Christian god, Yahweh, according to the bible will rot your ass in hell for not knowing his name. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty damned mean.

How's about you pull the log out of your own eye?

 

[Mudda]

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

He's not agnostic. He is militant atheist. He has elevated atheism to a religion.

You're just jealous because I'm agnostic, the thinking person's position.

Oh, yes, you are the most impressive person I abuse on these forums.

Admitting to abusing people surely will get you into heaven.

And I impress you, good to hear.

 

[Mudda]

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

You have no proof any gates will be closed.

Yes, I do. God told me so.

Obviously, you didn't get the Word.

Ok, you have nothing. Got it.

 

[ding]

I appreciate your concern for my "soul". Thank you. Now, please tell me what a "soul" is...

I don't know exactly what a soul is, but what I do know is that all matter and energy was created when space and time were created. So a soul - whatever it is - has been around for over 14 billion years. Every molecule in your body existed as energy at the time of the big bang.

 

[ding]

Admitting to abusing people surely will get you into heaven.

I never claimed to be a saint. Just trying to become one.

And I impress you, good to hear.

Everything is relative.

 

[Mudda]

Admitting to abusing people surely will get you into heaven.

I never claimed to be a saint. Just trying to become one.

And I impress you, good to hear.

Everything is relative.

So you believe in heaven? And that there's a god sitting around picking and choosing who curried favour with him during their lives?

 

[ding]

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

You have made a very astute observation. This is not only true today, but it is true since the beginning of mankind. Therefore, we can only conclude it is a part of man's nature. So the question becomes, why? The simplest answer is that man is compulsive. Think of it like height... some of us are tall and some of us are short but we all have some degree of height, right. Same thing for compulsion, we all have some degree of it. Some more than others. That's why some of us are alcoholics or drug addicts or workaholics or sex addicts, etc. Most of us though choose to worship ourselves. And therein lies the problem. When we worship ourselves we become self centric and are unable to see reality because we keep skewing it with our self centric bias.

So... in effect we all worship something because it is in our nature to do so. Most of us worship ourselves, most of us only see what we want to see and few of us see things for how they really are. The only choice we have is in choosing what we will worship. We should all choose wisely.

 

[ding]

Admitting to abusing people surely will get you into heaven.

I never claimed to be a saint. Just trying to become one.

And I impress you, good to hear.

Everything is relative.

So you believe in heaven? And that there's a god sitting around picking and choosing who curried favour with him during their lives?

What do you believe Heaven is? I can't answer your question unless I understand what you think it means.

 

[Mudda]

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

You have made a very astute observation. This is not only true today, but it is true since the beginning of mankind. Therefore, we can only conclude it is a part of man's nature. So the question becomes, why? The simplest answer is that man is compulsive. Think of it like height... some of us are tall and some of us are short but we all have some degree of height, right. Same thing for compulsion, we all have some degree of it. Some more than others. That's why some of us are alcoholics or drug addicts or workaholics or sex addicts, etc. Most of us though choose to worship ourselves. And therein lies the problem. When we worship ourselves we become self centric and are unable to see reality because we keep skewing it with our self centric bias.

So... in effect we all worship something because it is in our nature to do so. Most of us worship ourselves, most of us only see what we want to see and few of us see things for how they really are. The only choice we have is in choosing what we will worship. Choose wisely.

What a huge load of fartsmoke. YOU have the need to worship something and to follow a random set of rules.

 

[Mudda]

Admitting to abusing people surely will get you into heaven.

I never claimed to be a saint. Just trying to become one.

And I impress you, good to hear.

Everything is relative.

So you believe in heaven? And that there's a god sitting around picking and choosing who curried favour with him during their lives?

What do you believe Heaven is? I can't answer your question unless I understand what you think it means.

No such thing has yet to be proven. Not even a very appealing theory.

So, you really think that there's an invisible being picking and choosing who's going to get into his club and who is going to the oven?

 

[ding]

When you belong to something, you are owned by it - It is your master, and you, its slave. When people surrender their freedom to slavery based solely on beliefs, they surrender their responsibility for their own actions. They believe they are not accountable for the things they do as long as the things they do fall within the beliefs of that which they belong to. The jihadi believes it is his duty to blow himself and other people up because the religion he belongs to tells him it is the right thing to do; the air force pilot blows up the village filled with women and children because he believes the country he belongs to says it is the right thing to do; the abortion doctor aborts unborn children because the government he belongs to says it is legal to do so, and the AMA, which he also belongs to, says it is okay to do; the judge puts the person in jail for life for possessing a plant the government he belongs to says that is what he should do.

Yet another astute observation, Buck. Yes, to a degree. It all depends upon the individual though. What you are describing is the ability of one to do the right thing despite the letter of the law or consequences to one's self. Just because few of us do this, that doesn't mean we all do this. Some of us do actually do the right thing.

Here's the thing though... we were told we were rebels from the get go. We were told not to be of this world.

 

[ding]

No such thing has yet to be proven. Not even a very appealing theory.

So then my answer would have no meaning to you and therefore, your question is illogical.

So, you really think that there's an invisible being picking and choosing who's going to get into his club and who is going to the oven?

No. I believe that is our decision.

 

[ding]

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

You have made a very astute observation. This is not only true today, but it is true since the beginning of mankind. Therefore, we can only conclude it is a part of man's nature. So the question becomes, why? The simplest answer is that man is compulsive. Think of it like height... some of us are tall and some of us are short but we all have some degree of height, right. Same thing for compulsion, we all have some degree of it. Some more than others. That's why some of us are alcoholics or drug addicts or workaholics or sex addicts, etc. Most of us though choose to worship ourselves. And therein lies the problem. When we worship ourselves we become self centric and are unable to see reality because we keep skewing it with our self centric bias.

So... in effect we all worship something because it is in our nature to do so. Most of us worship ourselves, most of us only see what we want to see and few of us see things for how they really are. The only choice we have is in choosing what we will worship. Choose wisely.

What a huge load of fartsmoke. YOU have the need to worship something and to follow a random set of rules.

I'm not trying to convince you. I couldn't care less what you think, say or do. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. You live your life your way and I'll live my life my way. Fair enough?

 

[ding]

People do immoral things because the whatever they belong to takes the responsibility for the acts. It is like the slave who ties his fellow slave to a post and whips him for stealing a slice of bread. Morally it is not right, yet the plantation he belongs to says it is his duty. So he performs his duty and lays the blame at the feet of master, relieving his conscience of guilt. And his fellow slaves, who belong to the same plantation, accept it and absolve him from guilt.

Blaming others for our actions is a sign of an external locus of control. Basically, that means we transfer our control to an external source. In effect, we are "claiming" we had no control of what we did. I see this behavior in our society a lot. The problem with it is that it prevents people from accomplishing results and it prevents them from learning from their mistakes. We can't learn a lesson from something we don't acknowledge was in our control to prevent.

Like I already said before, we are rebels. We are literally at war with God. I don't believe most understand what this actually means. There are many who pay lip service to God. That's not God's fault. That's ours.

 

[ding]

I will no longer be looking for something to believe in. Instead I will spend my life looking at those things I know to be real, and live my life accordingly. A free human being cannot live on their knees believing a master he has never met is going to save his soul or feed him or care for his children. A free man knows that if he plants a seed and cares for it, that seed will bare fruit. From that seed he can feed his family and care for his children. Even believing in a god, he still has to plant his own seeds, so what good is believing in a god?

Ok, good luck. I hope you well on your journey. Although I believe you have that last part backwards, we are rebels, we are at war with God. The solution is to surrender to God and by doing so, stop acting like the rest of the world.

 

[Mudda]

No such thing has yet to be proven. Not even a very appealing theory.

So then my answer would have no meaning to you and therefore, your question is illogical.

So, you really think that there's an invisible being picking and choosing who's going to get into his club and who is going to the oven?

No. I believe that is our decision.

So you're afraid to answer because you know you can't logically justify it. Like a lot of other times. Got it.