Zone1 is the Vatican in the bible?

[Cougarbear]

So you attacked the Holy Catholic Church and now you know agina why you do so: Because you are the dciontrine of the true gospel from the true holy spirit of the true dead superman Joseph Smith?

Nevertheless if I take a look at this 51 women ( List of Joseph Smith's wives - Wikipedia ) I ask myselve how the anti-European and anti-Christian lifestyle of this man was possible with what form of "spirit".

Joseph Smith, Jr. and five others organized the Church of Christ, the first formally-organized church of the Latter Day Saint movement, in upstate New York (6 April 1830). In 1830 the USA had 24 states with 12,866,020 inhabitants, 2.009.043 of them had been slaves. I guess women still had been rare in 1830 in the USA. ... In 1857 Mormons caused the mountain meadow massacre ... and the Utah-war from 1857-1858 had been even a kind of civil war of the Mormons against the USA. ... Strange ... very strange ... And also no idea what to say to your strange lies which you try to tell me now in the year 2023. And absoltelly not any idea why you try to do so. ... What is your real problem? ...

There’s nothing holy about the RCC.

 

[zaangalewa]

There’s nothing holy about the RCC.

You follow the unbiblical rule "As long as we have a self defined enemy we are always right with every bullshit we'll say and with every nonsense we'll do". What'll be your full name in a future world? Hamas Mormon? It makes for example not any sense to babptize dead people. This is ugly and perverts baptism. Never any Christians in history did do so. So why do you do such a nonsense? Do you like to make money with a break of the god given sacrament baptism? You are not able to ask dead people anything about their future. Their future is in the very best hand - the hand of god - and what he decided, decides and will decide is what it is and what will be always the very best of all possible decisions. So let dead people rest in peace. Care for the living - not for the dead.

... leave the dead to bury their own dead ...
Jesus, the Christ

Here by the way a nice song for "all souls day" which has also the name "Halloween" - what's not only a Celtic celebration for children to learn how not to live in fear.

 

[ding]

You follow the unbiblical rule "As long as we have a self defined enemy we are always right with every bullshit we'll say and with every nonsense we'll do". What'll be your full name in a future world? Hamas Mormon? It makes for example not any sense to babptize dead people. This is ugly and perverts baptism. Never any Christians in history did do so. So why do you do such a nonsense? Do you like to make money with a break of the god given sacrament baptism? You are not able to ask dead people anything about their future. Their future is in the very best hand - the hand of god - and what he decided, decides and will decide is what it is and what will be always the very best of all possible decisions. So let dead people rest in peace. Care for the living - not for the dead.

... leave the dead to bury their own dead ...
Jesus, the Christ

Here by the way a nice song for "all souls day" which has also the name "Halloween" - what's not only a Celtic celebration for children to learn how not to live in fear.

Have you never prayed for the souls of the dead?

 

[zaangalewa]

Have you never prayed for the souls of the dead?

What do you call "to pray for the souls of the dead"? I'm a totally normal Catholic like all others and I follow if possible all of our traditions. But do you think the dead have a problem? Or do you think god has a problem? Sometimes I feel that something is not always going the way it should - but I feel also this is not a big problem after a short time. And no one is able to fall deeper than in the hand of god - and this is the very best of all possible hands.

 

[ding]

do you think the dead have a problem? Or do you think god has a problem? Sometimes I feel that something is not always going the way it should - but I feel also this is not a big problem after a short time. And no one is able to fall deeper than in the hand of god - and this is the very best of all possible hands.

I think neither. I think God experiences time all at once so praying for their souls after they have passed is for them and for us. I only asked my question because it seemed you were saying there is no benefit from praying for the dead.

 

[zaangalewa]

I think neither. I think God experiences time all at once so praying for their souls after they have passed is for them and for us. I only asked my question because it seemed you were saying there is no benefit from praying for the dead.

And this I did not say?

 

[ding]

And this I did not say?

Which is why I asked the question in the first post and used the word "seemed" in the second post. Stop being so difficult.

 

[zaangalewa]

Which is why I asked the question in the first post and used the word "seemed" in the second post. Stop being so difficult.

I am not difficult. I said not the one and not the other. You are difficult. When soemone will ask me: "Do you think human beings have a soul or no soul" then I will just simple answer "yes". It is enough for me to believe that god loves all human beings - more than anything else.



If you do not understand what Meister Eckhart says, don't worry. God loves you more than anything else.

 

[there4eyeM]

If praying for the dead makes one feel better, then we have to admit that it does something.
Baptism is a conscious act made by an adult, a choice made out of personal conviction. Otherwise it is meaningless and not true baptism.
The common understanding of "God" and Jesus' message is woefully meager. How can our limited languages have any more than metaphorical application to the "Creator of All and Everything"? People should be very careful when speaking for "God", or even about "God". In fact, the noun has been so overused and so misused for so long that I put it in quotation marks in order to underline its exceptional status. It has almost no commonly agreed meaning.

 

[zaangalewa]

I am not difficult. I said not the one and not the other. You are difficult. When soemone will ask me: "Do you think human beings have a soul or no soul" then I will just simple answer "yes". It is enough for me to believe that god loves all human beings - more than anything else.



If you do not understand what Meister Eckhart says, don't worry. God loves you more than anything else.

With what do you disagree, ding ? And what changes your agreement or disagreement in the reality of all this what's around us and in us in all visible and unvisible ways? "Allahu akbar". I heard this very short sentence means not only "god is great" but "god is greater". God is really always greater than anyone is able to think. But then suddenly someone cries "allahu akbar" and kills human beings. Someone who knows that one of the 10 commandements is "thou shalt not kill". ... This is a perfect disagreement, isn't it? ...

 

[ding]

With what do you disagree, ding ? And what changes your agreement or disagreement in the reality of all this what's around us and in us in all visible and unvisible ways?

That you aren't difficult to converse with. You are.

 

[nomadic5]

The word Bible is not in the Bible either and there were NO Bibles with a New T until after the printing press was invented in 1440

So yeh... not being in the Bible is ... moot

 

[zaangalewa]

That you aren't difficult to converse with. You are.

?
...

Much more easy: When we say god is love does this mean god loves? Short answer - believe it or not - "No"! - not necessarily. !!! We believe this - but we don't know this in sense of a philosophy or a science. Nevertheless god is still doing what he/she/it/they is doing and he is being what he is being and not being what not being. And he is not only since ever the same - he is also always new. This "ideas" make no picture out of god. But ... and this is a very very big "but" ... when we love we are in god or nearer to god or however you like to express this ... and you can be sure god loves you - because we (including I) say so to you. "Believe" has many faces and we Catholics do not bind our beliefs and faith to any concrete face but to an unknown face: the face of god which never anyone had seen. In god we trust. And in Jesus we see him. And his Spirit might enlighten us.



A little correction to this song: The dividing of the Red Sea is an Hollywood idea. The book of the bible which reports about says that the Israelites had to flee the soldiers of the word breaking pharao over a reed sea (not red sea). To do so needs light luggage. But the "tanks" - the war charriots - of the Pharao did sink in this reed sea. The most mighty weapon human beings knew at this time of history did not help at all the most mighty man - the pharao.

 

[nomadic5]

There’s nothing holy about the RCC.

absolutely absurd. One of the times in my life when I was almost knocked down by the holiness in the Catholic Church was... after I had been gone a long time.. came back because of... well, that's a LONG story I don't have time for but in any case, I went to a Mass after years of being away and I had this immediate thought/feeling "I can't stay in this Church. It is too holy."

Of course that sounds like the devil whispering in my ear and I somehow overcame that weird thought...

I had thought those people at Mass were likely WAY too holy for me... Otherwise, why would I feel that way? But no, I found out soon enough they were sinners just like me. The holiness came from Christ, not people (though those who live by His Ways are holy to one degree or another...)

The priest at that Mass eventually told me (in confession) about the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

So that splains things...

 

[Cougarbear]

absolutely absurd. One of the times in my life when I was almost knocked down by the holiness in the Catholic Church was... after I had been gone a long time.. came back because of... well, that's a LONG story I don't have time for but in any case, I went to a Mass after years of being away and I had this immediate thought/feeling "I can't stay in this Church. It is too holy."

Of course that sounds like the devil whispering in my ear and I somehow overcame that weird thought...

I had thought those people at Mass were likely WAY too holy for me... Otherwise, why would I feel that way? But no, I found out soon enough they were sinners just like me. The holiness came from Christ, not people (though those who live by His Ways are holy to one degree or another...)

The priest at that Mass eventually told me (in confession) about the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

So that splains things...

Hey, same thing that happens at my church as well. People think that the church is for the spiritually healthy only. But, it's not. It's also for the spiritually sick as well. It's for all for we all fall short the glory of God. Thus, even the people who seem to have it all together need improvement as well.

Your feelings are on that often occurs in many larger churches across the U.S. All Christian Churches teach Christ. The way Christ is taught differs. Many Christian churches teach a lot of fire and damnation. It's been my experience working for 16 years at a Catholic high school that both The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the RCC do not preach in this manner. We simply seek the best possible outcome of our lives in the eternities and teach about the positive things we can do to get there. The reason that Paul taught about 3 levels or glories of heaven is because not all will receive the saving ordinances from those who have actual authority from Jesus Christ to be performing those ordinances like baptism. That's where we differ, greatly.

Just take the connection of the Sacraments (Eucharist) and baptism by water. The RCC has no connection between the two from what I can see. The LDS church does. A close connection in that we recommit every Sunday to our baptismal covenants we made at baptism by partaking the Sacrament. The Sacrament is to remember our commitment and covenants to the Lord. There's no need for bread to turn to living flesh and wine (we use water so all get to partake of that sacrament) to actual drinking of blood. Here is our baptismal prayers for the bread and water:

Bread: O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

Water: O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

The Bread is that we are "willing" to do the Lord's work and the Water is that we "do" his work with authority. Both are in "remembrance" of the body and blood that was shed for our atonement with Christ.

The way I understand the RCC version of the Sacraments at Mass is that the Lord is pulled down off his throne by the priest to die again and again and again draining his blood and killing his flesh. The priests think they actually have the power to tell God to get off his throne and die over and over is not something I'd agree with.

 

[nomadic5]

You follow the unbiblical rule "As long as we have a self defined enemy we are always right with every bullshit we'll say and with every nonsense we'll do". What'll be your full name in a future world? Hamas Mormon?

LOL

 

[nomadic5]

Hey, same thing that happens at my church as well. People think that the church is for the spiritually healthy only. But, it's not. It's also for the spiritually sick as well. It's for all for we all fall short the glory of God. Thus, even the people who seem to have it all together need improvement as well.

I read this far...

No, you can not relate to what I said about the Real Presence and the Holiness in the Catholic Church. You have never been Catholic or if you were, you weren't taught what I know.. didn't experience the Real Presence. The only thing Catholics & others have in common is we are sinners

hooray.

 

[nomadic5]

Hey, same thing that happens at my church as well. People think that the church is for the spiritually healthy only. But, it's not. It's also for the spiritually sick as well. It's for all for we all fall short the glory of God. Thus, even the people who seem to have it all together need improvement as well.

Your feelings are on that often occurs in many larger churches across the U.S. All Christian Churches teach Christ. The way Christ is taught differs. Many Christian churches teach a lot of fire and damnation. It's been my experience working for 16 years at a Catholic high school that both The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the RCC do not preach in this manner. We simply seek the best possible outcome of our lives in the eternities and teach about the positive things we can do to get there. The reason that Paul taught about 3 levels or glories of heaven is because not all will receive the saving ordinances from those who have actual authority from Jesus Christ to be performing those ordinances like baptism. That's where we differ, greatly.

Just take the connection of the Sacraments (Eucharist) and baptism by water. The RCC has no connection between the two from what I can see. The LDS church does. A close connection in that we recommit every Sunday to our baptismal covenants we made at baptism by partaking the Sacrament. The Sacrament is to remember our commitment and covenants to the Lord. There's no need for bread to turn to living flesh and wine (we use water so all get to partake of that sacrament) to actual drinking of blood. Here is our baptismal prayers for the bread and water:

Bread: O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

Water: O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

The Bread is that we are "willing" to do the Lord's work and the Water is that we "do" his work with authority. Both are in "remembrance" of the body and blood that was shed for our atonement with Christ.

The way I understand the RCC version of the Sacraments at Mass is that the Lord is pulled down off his throne by the priest to die again and again and again draining his blood and killing his flesh. The priests think they actually have the power to tell God to get off his throne and die over and over is not something I'd agree with.

I really can't read all of this. I have found Truth... have found Jesus in the Real Presence and there is absolutely NOTHING to compare "it" to... I feel sorry for those who don't know what I'm talking about. I just don't have time for religions or thoughts about them... that are not real to me at all... There is only one Christ and only ONE Church. That Church began to exist from Day One, not in the 18th century w/ mr smith

 

[Cougarbear]

I read this far...

No, you can not relate to what I said about the Real Presence and the Holiness in the Catholic Church. You have never been Catholic or if you were, you weren't taught what I know.. didn't experience the Real Presence. The only thing Catholics & others have in common is we are sinners

hooray.

You have a complex that is known as being "Holier then thou." You will never be able to relate your experience to anyone else for any good. I have had a real presence of the Holy Ghost. Not only did I receive the Holy Ghost, the veil over my mind lifted off for me to know Jesus is the Christ. A real presence in a situation that required real faith when a friend attempted suicide and I covenanted with Father in Heaven, that if he were to help my friend, I would follow His Son, Jesus Christ. I was Jewish at the time. So, you can stick it in your ear your holier than thouness.

I've also been in the presence of true Apostles and Prophets in these latter days. In my opinion, all the pomp and circumstance of your Masses is for show and control over others. How come you cannot partake of the wine? Why only the priest? There is no real presence in that nor any holiness either. Don't know the concept of either.

 

[nomadic5]

You have a complex that is known as being "Holier then thou."

You have a complex known as thinking you know everything -- about someone else's life, someone you haven't even met.

Ignore is looking good