Zone1 is the Vatican in the bible?

[Cougarbear]

I really can't read all of this. I have found Truth... have found Jesus in the Real Presence and there is absolutely NOTHING to compare "it" to... I feel sorry for those who don't know what I'm talking about. I just don't have time for religions or thoughts about them... that are not real to me at all... There is only one Christ and only ONE Church. That Church began to exist from Day One, not in the 18th century w/ mr smith

Matt:9, 14 ¶ Then came to him the disciples of John 9saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Acts 3:21, "“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

Paul taught there would be an apostacy and there was. Amos said that the Lord only speaks and reveals the secrets of God through prophets. Apostles are prophets as well. Without them, the world is in apostacy. People lose the meaning of the doctrine of Christ. For 400 years, the Isrealites were in apostacy while in bondage until the Lord sent the prophet Moses to restore the doctrine and authority through the priesthood of Aaron (who was a Levite and thus the Levitical priesthood or the priesthood after the order of Aaron as in in the book of Hebrews. From time to time, Israel had no prophets and had to have restoration as well. And, 200 years before Christ, there was apostacy until John the Baptist was called and Jesus appeared on earth. Jesus called apostles. After his death, he still communicated with apostles to call new ones. But, then the people stopped listening to the apostles (prophets) and started their own religions with false doctrines and no authority. Thus, Paul's prophecy came true and there were no prophets in the Mediterranian lands for 1700 years. The RCC has no apostles and no prophets and never did. No possibility for holiness or authority. Thus, a restoration was needed and happened when God again called a prophet in 1820, Joseph Smith. He re-established His Church in 1830. The restitution of all things began including the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. The Church could not be in an old wineskin like the RCC as it is being restored. As taught in Matthew chapter 9. Read above.

 

[nomadic5]

do multiple posts and words make one the winner in a disagreement?

nope

 

[nomadic5]

Matt:9, 14 ¶ Then came to him the disciples of John 9saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Acts 3:21, "“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

Paul taught there would be an apostacy and there was. Amos said that the Lord only speaks and reveals the secrets of God through prophets. Apostles are prophets as well. Without them, the world is in apostacy. People lose the meaning of the doctrine of Christ. For 400 years, the Isrealites were in apostacy while in bondage until the Lord sent the prophet Moses to restore the doctrine and authority through the priesthood of Aaron (who was a Levite and thus the Levitical priesthood or the priesthood after the order of Aaron as in in the book of Hebrews. From time to time, Israel had no prophets and had to have restoration as well. And, 200 years before Christ, there was apostacy until John the Baptist was called and Jesus appeared on earth. Jesus called apostles. After his death, he still communicated with apostles to call new ones. But, then the people stopped listening to the apostles (prophets) and started their own religions with false doctrines and no authority. Thus, Paul's prophecy came true and there were no prophets in the Mediterranian lands for 1700 years. The RCC has no apostles and no prophets and never did. No possibility for holiness or authority. Thus, a restoration was needed and happened when God again called a prophet in 1820, Joseph Smith. He re-established His Church in 1830. The restitution of all things began including the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. The Church could not be in an old wineskin like the RCC as it is being restored. As taught in Matthew chapter 9. Read above.

so there was no true church until Smith came along?

please

 

[BackAgain]

I don’t think New York City was in the Bible; and yet, there it is.

 

[Cougarbear]

so there was no true church until Smith came along?

please

That’s correct. There was no authority God was working with that he gave to man. No prophet or apostle, no authority. In Hebrews it is given what the authority is. Melchizedek and Aaronic Priesthood orders. Nothing about Jesuits or Franciscans or other nonsense. I want to be clear though. Everyone always says “true church.” No, “True Gospel of Jesus Christ.” The Church that has the true gospel is the one with the authority to teach and administer with. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has prophets and apostles who are prophets, seers and revelators. They hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and so do I and millions of other men.

 

[Clyde 154]

I like your statement that says if you are in a Celestial state you are in the state needed and baptism would not be required. However, Jesus Christ came to save those who are able to sin and showed the way by being baptized himself. Little children under the age of 8 are not able to sin and thus enter the Celestial Kingdom upon the Resurrection. It's a promise made to Joseph Smith in a vision from God.
John 3:5, " Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, unless a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. The KIngdom of God is often mistaken to be just Heaven. Heaven has three glories as stated in First Corinthians Chapter 15, Celestial (The Kingdom of God), Terrestrial (Not the Kingdom of God but in Heaven for those who were good people but not valiant in the testimonies of Jesus Christ), The Stars (Telestial from Doctrine and Covenants Chapter 76). Those are those who were wicked but did not deny the Holy Ghost).

The KINGDOM OF GOD is the church given to Jesus by the Father as explained in Matthew 16.....when Jesus declared that His kingdom/church would stand against the gates of Hades..........hades, not hell, hades is the grave. Peter was given the "keys to the Kingdom" in the fact that Peter's words would establish the first Doctrine required to enter the Kingdom/church of Christ. Peter exercised the use of these Keys to the Kingdom in Acts 2:38 when he informed the Jews gathered from all regions what they must do to enter the kingdom. The first command required to enter the Kingdom of God, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and you shall receive the "gift of the Holy Spirit". The Christ informed Peter, what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, what you lose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (Matthew 16:19). The first commandment in the New Testament Church............your sins are washed away by water baptism as it represents the death of the old man and the birth of the new man, free from sin. Its water that now saves us......symbolically representing how Noah was saved by water (1 Peter 3:21)

Water baptism is a work that demonstrates the required faith. "........You foolish person do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" -- James 2:20 "Faith without works is dead...." -- James 1:25

Again.........a simple question that requires a simple answer. Can you present the book, chapter and verse of anyone entering the Kingdom of God/the church of Christ.......without the required baptism in water........any single passage. The thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins by God incarnate....before Peter opened the doors to the kingdom (Acts 2) When both Jesus and the thief died.....the Law and the prophets were still in effect, it took the death of the Christ to remove the requirements of the LAW and the prophets.

 

[Clyde 154]

That’s correct. There was no authority God was working with that he gave to man. No prophet or apostle, no authority. In Hebrews it is given what the authority is. Melchizedek and Aaronic Priesthood orders. Nothing about Jesuits or Franciscans or other nonsense. I want to be clear though. Everyone always says “true church.” No, “True Gospel of Jesus Christ.” The Church that has the true gospel is the one with the authority to teach and administer with. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has prophets and apostles who are prophets, seers and revelators. They hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and so do I and millions of other men.

There are no Modern Day Apostles or Prophets...........Mormons are playing 1st century church in pretension they possess these supernatural gifts that failed when their need no longer existed (1 Cor 13)......the Perfect Law of Liberty put an end to age of miracles . Joseph Smith was a con artist. The perfect (complete in Greek) law of liberty existed in the 1st century. (James 1:25) There is no method for any Mormon to go beyond PERFECTION. The Holy Scriptures give the man of God......all that is required in relation to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3-10). The saints of the 1st century delivered THE FAITH......ONCE (Jude 3)

Its simple: Just document any miracle preformed by any supposed Modern day Apostle. Bring back the dead, heal the blind, cure the cripples........if the Mormons do have true Apostles of Christ these Apostles should document the evidence that they are real Apostles........just as the Apostles of the 1st century demonstrated their apostleship through signs and wonders (2 Cor. 12:12)

Document just one sign or wonder from the latter day saints........1 little miracle, that should be no problem. Prove that this miracle can't be explained by the Laws of physics. This will remove all doubt. You will not document any such miracle because YOU CANNOT.

 

[Cougarbear]

The KINGDOM OF GOD is the church given to Jesus by the Father as explained in Matthew 16.....when Jesus declared that His kingdom/church would stand against the gates of Hades..........hades, not hell, hades is the grave. Peter was given the "keys to the Kingdom" in the fact that Peter's words would establish the first Doctrine required to enter the Kingdom/church of Christ. Peter exercised the use of these Keys to the Kingdom in Acts 2:38 when he informed the Jews gathered from all regions what they must do to enter the kingdom. The first command required to enter the Kingdom of God, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and you shall receive the "gift of the Holy Spirit". The Christ informed Peter, what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, what you lose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (Matthew 16:19). The first commandment in the New Testament Church............your sins are washed away by water baptism as it represents the death of the old man and the birth of the new man, free from sin. Its water that now saves us......symbolically representing how Noah was saved by water (1 Peter 3:21)

Water baptism is a work that demonstrates the required faith. "........You foolish person do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" -- James 2:20 "Faith without works is dead...." -- James 1:25

Again.........a simple question that requires a simple answer. Can you present the book, chapter and verse of anyone entering the Kingdom of God/the church of Christ.......without the required baptism in water........any single passage. The thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins by God incarnate....before Peter opened the doors to the kingdom (Acts 2) When both Jesus and the thief died.....the Law and the prophets were still in effect, it took the death of the Christ to remove the requirements of the LAW and the prophets.

You just proved all my points. The RCC baptizes not for remission of sins. That’s why they baptize babies. There’s on doctrine screwed up by the RCC. The other is they have no prophets. So, they have no law of Christ. And no Priesthood established by Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

There are no Modern Day Apostles or Prophets...........Mormons are playing 1st century church in pretension they possess these supernatural gifts that failed when their need no longer existed (1 Cor 13)......the Perfect Law of Liberty put an end to age of miracles . Joseph Smith was a con artist. The perfect (complete in Greek) law of liberty existed in the 1st century. (James 1:25) There is no method for any Mormon to go beyond PERFECTION. The Holy Scriptures give the man of God......all that is required in relation to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3-10). The saints of the 1st century delivered THE FAITH......ONCE (Jude 3)

Its simple: Just document any miracle preformed by any supposed Modern day Apostle. Bring back the dead, heal the blind, cure the cripples........if the Mormons do have true Apostles of Christ these Apostles should document the evidence that they are real Apostles........just as the Apostles of the 1st century demonstrated their apostleship through signs and wonders (2 Cor. 12:12)

Document just one sign or wonder from the latter day saints........1 little miracle, that should be no problem. Prove that this miracle can't be explained by the Laws of physics. This will remove all doubt. You will not document any such miracle because YOU

Wo unto those who seek for a sign. There have been many miracles. The Book of Mormon revealed as the stick of Joseph through Ephraim. In the trek from back East to Utah there were many miracles. Read the journals of many pioneers and you will find them. Joseph and others saw the Lord in the Kirkland Temple along with Elijah who brought the sealing powers of binding marriages and families forever. There’s many. Not tricks you are looking for.

 

[Meriweather]

You just proved all my points. The RCC baptizes not for remission of sins. That’s why they baptize babies. There’s on doctrine screwed up by the RCC. The other is they have no prophets. So, they have no law of Christ. And no Priesthood established by Christ.

You are incorrect. I have explained all of this to you at least twice. I wonder why you cling to your errors and misconceptions. What is it to you?

 

[Clyde 154]

Wo unto those who seek for a sign. There have been many miracles. The Book of Mormon revealed as the stick of Joseph through Ephraim. In the trek from back East to Utah there were many miracles. Read the journals of many pioneers and you will find them. Joseph and others saw the Lord in the Kirkland Temple along with Elijah who brought the sealing powers of binding marriages and families forever. There’s many. Not tricks you are looking for.

Of course.........its the fault of the person that "LOL" seeks confirmation not the FALSE PROPHETS who cannot deliver the signs of a true Apostle of Christ.

"If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, HE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE THINGS I AM WRITING TO YOU ARE A COMMAND OF THE LORD." -- 1 Cor. 14:37

The Apostle was able to give PROOF of his apostleship by the SIGNS GOD GAVE TO ACCOMPANY HIM. "The signs of a true apostle were preformed among you with utmost patience, WITH SIGNS AND WONDERS AND MIGHTY WORKS." -- 2 Cor. 12:12

Wo unto those seeking signs? Once again you are guilty of "cherry picking" a single line of scripture, taking it away from the context of the entire message presented in its totality.

The first line in the chapter begins with the enemies of the Christ demanding that Jesus should give them more signs than those they have already witnessed.......He answered them, charging them with knowing the sings of the elements/weather.....but pretending not to comprehend the signs from heaven provided to them by Jesus. (Matthew 16:1-4) Of course Jesus refuses to act like a dancing monkey on the end of a string for their entertainment........He simply walks away from them knowing that regardless of how many signs they have witnessed it would never be enough.

The Sadducees and Pharisees were not seeking a sign from Jesus. At this point in time they had already witnessed Jesus feeding the masses with the miracle of the loaves and the fishes....where Jesus fed over 4000 people.....they were seeking yet another sign, not because they were wanting to believe......but because they were seeking a reason NOT TO BELIEVE. Jesus refused them and declared the Sadducees and Pharisees were members of an adulterous and evil generation........not those who personally witnessed the signs of an Apostle and believed. Of course the opposite of that which you were attempting...........a GOTCHA moment, inverts and points out that the Mormons are the one's with a membership in an evil and adulterous generation. Tell us one more time how Mormons have a history of Adultery with their doctrine of bigamy. You can't hide from history actual.

In conclusion: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonia, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so." -- Acts 17:11

What do the scriptures declare as far as there being more doctrine delivered to the Faith of Christianity 2000 years removed from the 1st century? "Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about about our common salvation. I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith THAT WAS "ONCE FOR ALL" DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS." -- Jude 3 Jude is writing to warn others about abandoning the FAITH that was once delivered in accepting NEW DOCTRINE that is not authorized by the Holy Spirit of Truth, as the Perfect Law of Liberty already existed (James 1:25) The things required and necessary to enter the kingdom of God/church of Christ already existed........everything that pertains to life and godliness existed in the 1st century because it was delivered by the Holy Spirit of Truth (2 Peter 1:3, 2 Tim. 3:16-17). The Holy Scriptures alone provides everything in relation to righteous doctrine.

Anyone that falls for the false religion of Mormonism............lacks the ability for critical independent thought and reason. Gullible: easily deceived or tricked

"WHEN I WAS A CHILD, I SPAKE AS A CHILD, I UNDERSTOOD AS A CHILD, I THOUGHT AS A CHILD; BUT WHEN I BECAME A MAN I PUT AWAY CHILDISH THINGS."

Mormons are doing nothing but Playing 1st century church like a child pretends.

 

[nomadic5]

I don’t think New York City was in the Bible; and yet, there it is.

It was called Babylon or Sodom back in the day..

lol

 

[nomadic5]

That’s correct. There was no authority God was working with that he gave to man. No prophet or apostle, no authority. In Hebrews it is given what the authority is. Melchizedek and Aaronic Priesthood orders. Nothing about Jesuits or Franciscans or other nonsense. I want to be clear though. Everyone always says “true church.” No, “True Gospel of Jesus Christ.” The Church that has the true gospel is the one with the authority to teach and administer with. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has prophets and apostles who are prophets, seers and revelators. They hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and so do I and millions of other men.

you are one lost person.

You say there was no church until smith came along!

But Jesus clearly said "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" which means it will not fail. If Satan can't destroy it, even Francis can't

mt 16:18

I guess, to you Jesus was just one of those false prophets y'all say he was. Me? I'm going w/ Jesus and HIS Church, not some man made one

 

[nomadic5]

The Holy Scriptures give the man of God......all that is required in relation to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3-10). The saints of the 1st century delivered THE FAITH......ONCE (Jude 3)

I agreed until you said this. The Scriptures themselves do NOT say that Scripture is sufficient all by itself. If that were the case, why did Jesus establish a Church?

mt 16:18

 

[surada]

1,260 days of Revelation 12:6 correlates with the 42 months or time, times and half a time in which the beast waged war on the saints (Rev 13:5-7, Dan 7:25; 12:7-11) fulfilled in the 42 month or three-and-a-half-year military campaign led by Vespasian and Titus which culminated in the fall of Jerusalem in Elul of A.D. 70.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are incorrect. I have explained all of this to you at least twice. I wonder why you cling to your errors and misconceptions. What is it to you?

Sorry but Amos said the secrets or authority is through prophets. You can say all you want about how the RCC teaches and does things. It doesn’t square with the Word of God to begin with. And the RCC has no prophets and Apostles. Funny how he claims because of the atonement and at the atonement prophets were no longer necessary. Yet, Peter was called by Christ before his death to be his prophet after his death. And, for the other prophets (apostles) to continue as he taught. A couple of the apostles were replaced after Christ’s death. But then came the apostasy. Rebellion by the bishops around the region. Doctrines and administration was polluted causing the falling away Paul said would happen. Eventually, there were no more prophets and apostles. So, they eventually compiled what we have as the Bible to be the authority replacing the prophets. But that wasn’t sanctioned by God. And eventually centuries later the RCC was formally organized. But not by God. Not by Christ. The world would suffer a Millennium of dark ages of barbarism, torture and black magic.
Then, when there were enough good that broke away from that great and abominable church, the heavens parted and the Godhead and angels again descended to call a new latter-day prophet, Joseph Smith. The doctrine of the true gospel was restored with the restitution of all things God once established from Adam in down to Christ. And, prophets have been called ever since 1820 and we have one today as well.

 

[nomadic5]

cougarbear is in sad shape. But maybe if he stays faithful to the Lds, they will reward him with success...

and he will end up the next Romney?

 

[Cougarbear]

Of course.........its the fault of the person that "LOL" seeks confirmation not the FALSE PROPHETS who cannot deliver the signs of a true Apostle of Christ.

"If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, HE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE THINGS I AM WRITING TO YOU ARE A COMMAND OF THE LORD." -- 1 Cor. 14:37

The Apostle was able to give PROOF of his apostleship by the SIGNS GOD GAVE TO ACCOMPANY HIM. "The signs of a true apostle were preformed among you with utmost patience, WITH SIGNS AND WONDERS AND MIGHTY WORKS." -- 2 Cor. 12:12

Wo unto those seeking signs? Once again you are guilty of "cherry picking" a single line of scripture, taking it away from the context of the entire message presented in its totality.

The first line in the chapter begins with the enemies of the Christ demanding that Jesus should give them more signs than those they have already witnessed.......He answered them, charging them with knowing the sings of the elements/weather.....but pretending not to comprehend the signs from heaven provided to them by Jesus. (Matthew 16:1-4) Of course Jesus refuses to act like a dancing monkey on the end of a string for their entertainment........He simply walks away from them knowing that regardless of how many signs they have witnessed it would never be enough.

The Sadducees and Pharisees were not seeking a sign from Jesus. At this point in time they had already witnessed Jesus feeding the masses with the miracle of the loaves and the fishes....where Jesus fed over 4000 people.....they were seeking yet another sign, not because they were wanting to believe......but because they were seeking a reason NOT TO BELIEVE. Jesus refused them and declared the Sadducees and Pharisees were members of an adulterous and evil generation........not those who personally witnessed the signs of an Apostle and believed. Of course the opposite of that which you were attempting...........a GOTCHA moment, inverts and points out that the Mormons are the one's with a membership in an evil and adulterous generation. Tell us one more time how Mormons have a history of Adultery with their doctrine of bigamy. You can't hide from history actual.

In conclusion: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonia, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily, whether these things were so." -- Acts 17:11

What do the scriptures declare as far as there being more doctrine delivered to the Faith of Christianity 2000 years removed from the 1st century? "Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about about our common salvation. I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith THAT WAS "ONCE FOR ALL" DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS." -- Jude 3 Jude is writing to warn others about abandoning the FAITH that was once delivered in accepting NEW DOCTRINE that is not authorized by the Holy Spirit of Truth, as the Perfect Law of Liberty already existed (James 1:25) The things required and necessary to enter the kingdom of God/church of Christ already existed........everything that pertains to life and godliness existed in the 1st century because it was delivered by the Holy Spirit of Truth (2 Peter 1:3, 2 Tim. 3:16-17). The Holy Scriptures alone provides everything in relation to righteous doctrine.

Anyone that falls for the false religion of Mormonism............lacks the ability for critical independent thought and reason. Gullible: easily deceived or tricked

"WHEN I WAS A CHILD, I SPAKE AS A CHILD, I UNDERSTOOD AS A CHILD, I THOUGHT AS A CHILD; BUT WHEN I BECAME A MAN I PUT AWAY CHILDISH THINGS."

Mormons are doing nothing but Playing 1st century church like a child pretends.

D&C 124:98 And these signs shall follow him—he shall heal the sick, he shall cast out devils, and shall be delivered from those who would administer unto him deadly poison;

So, you see we believe the same about apostles and prophets. We have tons of examples of miracles from our Apostles and Prophets. You can find these in journals, writings of many, many authors. I’ve been able to give Priesthood blessings that resulted in miracles since I have had the Melchizedek Priesthood conferred upon me just like our Apostles and Prophets. Sorry to see you can only help people through a no one since you have No Apostles and not proper true orders of the Priesthood.

 

[Cougarbear]

you are one lost person.

You say there was no church until smith came along!

But Jesus clearly said "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" which means it will not fail. If Satan can't destroy it, even Francis can't

mt 16:18

I guess, to you Jesus was just one of those false prophets y'all say he was. Me? I'm going w/ Jesus and HIS Church, not some man made one

I did not say there was no church. Jesus Christ established a Church when he was on the earth. He gave authority and responsibility to Peter and the Apostles to spread the gospel and true doctrine to the 4 corners of the earth. They started the process and preached and established many churches with bishops leading them. However, Paul found out that many had begun to apostatize and preach false doctrines and changing doctrines, authority and ordinances. He said there would be a falling away and the word could not be preached during that time period with authority. Churches continued but in apostasy. There were no more apostles and prophets and thus the church was taken from the earth during the apostasy. As Daniel put it, it would be restored to the earth in the latter days and will not be given to another. Thus, the gates of Hell were not able to prevail against it and thus did not fail. It was delayed until these the times of restitution of all things.

 

[Meriweather]

It doesn’t square with the Word of God to begin with. And the RCC has no prophets and Apostles.

Once more you are incorrect. But you don't seem to care about that. Again, I wonder why you are so determined to ignore corrections....but it is what it is.