Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?

[pknopp]

sure it has…have you not been paying attention to the people protesting for a new free govt?

That has nothing to do with anything we've done.

 

[struth]

Sure , by 2019.
But we were not discussing the fact the US has dropped most of the illegal trade sanctions against Cuba since Castro died.
We were discussing how the US used to illegally try to prevent any country from trading with Cuba,

where did you get this idea that the US Govt can’t

That has nothing to do with anything we've done.

sure it has. We haven’t, well, other then obama briefly, bailed out the failing leftist tyrants that run the govt

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sure , by 2019.
But we were not discussing the fact the US has dropped most of the illegal trade sanctions against Cuba since Castro died.
We were discussing how the US used to illegally try to prevent any country from trading with Cuba,

We were discussing how the US used to illegally try to prevent any country from trading with Cuba,

Didn't you say it was illegal, because we signed the 1906 Geneva Conventions? A war crime?

Did you ever admit your error?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You can not legally dictate who anyone does business with in the US,

Why not?
Geneva Conventions?

 

[Donald H]

I don’t think China will make the same gamble Khrushchev made in sending large scale military aid to Cuba before the Cuban Missile Crisis. Also, I am not nearly as enamored of the Chinese leadership as you seem to be. But I agree with some of what you say. I assume you were being facetious when talking about possibly exchanging S. Korea with Cuba in the great powers respective spheres of interest. Even “real politics” can’t pull off such trade-offs. South Korea in the end will probably be far more important than Cuba in the new Cold War. I doubt it will choose to take sides as much as the U.S. wants.

I'm not suggesting that China is going to send large scale military aid. That's not how China operates and you must already know that. Why would they try?

China is sending economic aid and peaceful offers of free and fair trade.

The interesting question is on what the US intends to do about it.

Trading S.K. for Cuba requires some imagination and thinking out of the box. I would suggest that there's little doubt China wants the US and US influence out of the Koreas, and that needs to be considered along with the will of the Korean people to reunite. Maybe a Cuban tradeoff could facilitate much more than is currently imagined.

Think a bit into the future when America loses the ability to extend it's power over the entire globe, and then think of China stepping up to take it's place.

good to discuss the possibilities with a bright American, and no animosity intended.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I would suggest that there's little doubt China wants the US and US influence out of the Koreas,

So what?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Sure , by 2019.
But we were not discussing the fact the US has dropped most of the illegal trade sanctions against Cuba since Castro died.
We were discussing how the US used to illegally try to prevent any country from trading with Cuba,

Rigby, I’m not sure where you got the idea that, or what you mean by, “the U.S. has dropped most of the illegal trade sanctions against Cuba since Castro died.”

Castro died November 2016, and Trump severely intensified sanctions throughout his term. In January 2021 the then “Lame Duck” Trump Administration, with Congressional support, preposterously put Cuba on its “State Terrorist” list, which had immediate effect and made it much more difficult for Biden to return to any of Obama’s relatively enlightened policies toward Cuba. In fact of course it is the U.S. that has long acted as an international terrorist and bully toward Cuba.

An unrelated point is that Trump himself as late as 2015 was sending emissaries to Cuba to investigate the possibility of putting his name on a major hotel in Cuba. Cuban tourism by 2015 had already proven most popular with Europeans and very profitable for Spanish and European investors. Once actively campaigning for President, however, he discovered the importance of anti-Cuban demagogy for winning Florida, and he dumped this plan like a hot potato..

 

[Sunsettommy]

Give me the list of trading partners from 1960 to 2000.

Your goal post moving is blatant, can't you at least try to sneak it in then I would be impressed?

Meanwhile this is what YOU stated to my other link you didn't dispute at all which says you are free of the truth:

Wrong again. The US has effectively prevented much of the world from trading with Cuba. It has also sabotaged their economy in many heinous ways.

Get informed. Please.

Then I post evidence of trade with over 25 nations which explodes your silly claim into dust, then you come back with more stupid stuff.

Cuba has been in trade with many nations since 1975 which is what the article you ignored showed. Here is the evidence that even in year 2000 Cuba was trading with the following nations:

Russia
Spain
Germany
France
Sweden
Italy
UK
Belarus
Netherlands
Belgium
Portugal
Ukraine
Romania
China
S. Korea
Japan
India
Syria
Canada
Mexico
Belize
Bahamas
Haiti
Costa Rica
Brazil
Venezuela
Columbia
Tunisia
Australia
Nigeria
Egypt
Panama
Honduras
Vietnam

and a few more not going to list

LINK

=====

From the 1975 NYT article is this evidence that Cuba has never been fully embargoed:

But the lifting of the embargo will reintroduce a certain amount of uniformity within the O.A.S.

Seven Latin‐American countries have maintained diplomatic and trade relations with Havana in defiance of the sanctions. They are Argentina, Colombia, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago and Venezuela.

===

You have been thoroughly refuted, it is clear you are truly ignorant of the Trade history of Cuba, even after I post hard evidence of it you ignore it.

That is immaturity fella.

 

[gipper]

Your goal post moving is blatant, can't you at least try to sneak it in then I would be impressed?

Meanwhile this is what YOU stated to my other link you didn't dispute at all which says you are free of the truth:



Then I post evidence of trade with over 25 nations which explodes your silly claim into dust, then you come back with more stupid stuff.

Cuba has been in trade with many nations since 1975 which is what the article you ignored showed. Here is the evidence that even in year 2000 Cuba was trading with the following nations:

Russia
Spain
Germany
France
Sweden
Italy
UK
Belarus
Netherlands
Belgium
Portugal
Ukraine
Romania
China
S. Korea
Japan
India
Syria
Canada
Mexico
Belize
Bahamas
Haiti
Costa Rica
Brazil
Venezuela
Columbia
Tunisia
Australia
Nigeria
Egypt
Panama
Honduras
Vietnam

and a few more not going to list

LINK

=====

From the 1975 NYT article is this evidence that Cuba has never been fully embargoed:



===

You have been thoroughly refuted, it is clear you are truly ignorant of the Trade history of Cuba, even after I post hard evidence of it you ignore it.

That is immaturity fella.

You’re ridiculous. You have no understanding of the numerous activities undertaken by the US government to harm the Cuban people. You don’t know that the US has had an embargo in effect since 1960. You don’t know that the US has pressured the world not to trade with Cuba.

Get informed.

 

[Soupnazi630]

What stupid thing to claim since the rest of the world has been trading with Cuba for decades now.

Wrong again. The US has effectively prevented much of the world from trading with Cuba. It has also sabotaged their economy in many heinous ways.

Get informed. Please.

No it hasn't

Youare uninformed

 

[Soupnazi630]

Lol. You failed to watch the Dore vid I posted above. Much of the information you are completely unaware of is discussed there.

That is because it is not a factual video with evidence.

As always you can only post a cheap and low brow video because you are a mental and intellectiuial light weight who can never back up your lame and stupid assertions with evidence.

 

[gipper]

That is because it is not a factual video with evidence.

As always you can only post a cheap and low brow video because you are a mental and intellectiuial light weight who can never back up your lame and stupid assertions with evidence.

As you well know, your grandpa was behind Operation Mongoose and which the CIA doesn’t deny it’s existence. It’s in the fucking National Achives. Dummy!!!

Allen III you really are a terrible disappointment. You don’t have the skills your granddaddy had in lying effectively.

 

[Soupnazi630]

As you well know, your grandpa was behind Operation Mongoose and which the CIA doesn’t deny it’s existence. It’s in the fucking National Achives. Dummy!!!

Allen III you really are a terrible disappointment. You don’t have the skills your granddaddy had in lying effectively.

Mongoose does not even come close to proving all of your idiotic babblings. Bugt you knew that as I have schooled you in the past. But you are too much of an immature little brat to admit when you have been owned by your betters like me.

Im not surprised to see what a fiuckiing moron you are as your grandpa Oswald who murdered Kennedy was equally fucking stupid.

 

[gipper]

Mongoose does not even come close to proving all of your idiotic babblings. Bugt you knew that as I have schooled you in the past. But you are too much of an immature little brat to admit when you have been owned by your betters like me.

Im not surprised to see what a fiuckiing moron you are as your grandpa Oswald who murdered Kennedy was equally fucking stupid.

Admitting that you think Oswald acted alone, proves you’re an idiot and a liar. No one with brain believes that shit.

Do better Allen.

 

[basquebromance]

you know you're in Cuba not Portland when they're waving American flags, not burning them

 

[Soupnazi630]

Admitting that you think Oswald acted alone, proves you’re an idiot and a liar. No one with brain believes that shit.

Do better Allen.

You know he acted alone Ozzie.

I proved this fact to you on endless threads which you ran away from in defeat.

I owned you and every one knows it. ESPECIALLY you

Try harder Lee III

 

[gipper]

You know he acted alone Ozzie.

I proved this fact to you on endless threads which you ran away from in defeat.

I owned you and every one knows it. ESPECIALLY you

Try harder Lee III

No one believes that Allen. Not even you.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No one believes that Allen. Not even you.

I know it for a fact and so do you.

Everyonje saw how you were owned by me Lee III

You never produce evidence on any thread and you KNOW you are my bitch. Now hit the streets and earn some money like a good whore.

 

[Likkmee]

We have been over that already. All of the Cuban people do NOT have quality health care only the elite ruling class..

WHO is repeating propoganda which is issued by the communist regime of Cuba and that propoganda is not open to investigation or verification. When a communist government tells you they have great health care ( or any thing else ) they are lying.

Hawaiians have access to great HC.

You are simply wrong

"ruling class" ? sounds familiar

 

[Donald H]

I can certainly see a competition between America and China for the hearts and minds of the Cuban people.
America has a possible route back into Cuba through co-operation.

But that's fraught with pitfalls due to the American attitude of absolutely no co-operation with a communist government.
Cuban Americans in Florida can demonstrate all they like but it's only blowing smoke up their own asses unless there can be some kind of agreement met between the US and Cuba.
Here's some possibilities:
A US and China competition to win over the Cuban people.
China wins Cuba over by peaceful free and fair trade policy.
US military action against Cuba.
America wins over the Cuban people and they choose democracy over their revolution, thus leading to the Cuban people overthrowing their government and their so far popular revolution.

Are there other possibilities or solutions?

There's no way that America can ignore the impending outcome in which China is welcomed in by the Cuban people. And nobody should be thinking this latest attempt by the US to cause trouble in Cuba is for any other reason. Foreign policy mistakes on Cuba has brought about a situation in which there doesn't appear to be a good solution.

This issue is the news that America's media isn't going to talk about. It can't be admitted that it's become all about China gaining a foothold in Cuba.
What a great opportunity for this forum's posters to upstage the media.