Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

[zaangalewa]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence. ...

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant. Everything God made is good.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

Only religious fools would think otherwise.

Regards
DL

I am a fundamental Christian and you are an extremist anti-Christian in my eyes.

Protestant?

One truth - One church: God is Catholic.

 

[ding]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence.

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant.

If you are life per se then death per se is evil. Only for dead things nothing is evil.

God made life and death.

God made life - more than this: god is life - whether he made death or not I'm not sure.

So you don't agree with what the Bible states that God numbered the days of man to 120 years?

Evil is like cold or darkness in that they exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Ergo evil is not extant.

That's nonsense, because the bullet, which kills your mother, is a product in a very complex situation of a very complex human made world. It's not absence - it's wrongness.

Everything works for good. Even the things you don't believe do. You don't have perfect knowledge. God does. So just to be clear, you, as a Christian fundamentalist do not believe that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything God created is good?

Everything God made is good.

... but is the devil good? Are we good?

Yes, we are good but sometimes we choose to not do good. Sometimes we do things that are absent of good.

You don't know what I do.

I don't have to know everything you do to know that not everything you do is good. You aren't special.

But the difference between us and the devil is that God has withdrawn his spirit from the devil

He has what? God loves him - and as far as I can see the devil loves god.

God loves all of his creatures, that's why he doesn't destroy them. But he will withdraw his spirit from them and when that happens it is tormenting. The devil is tormented because God withdrew his spirit from him.

so the devil is always absent of good.

I'm not sure whether this is true.

It's the logical conclusion of God being the source of all that is good.

We on the other hand have God's spirit within us and will have his spirit until he removes it from us, usually at our request. God does not destroy what he creates because what he created is good.

Just a moment ago you said we do not good - now we are good. So "we" - whoever your "we" is now - are good evildoers.

Yes, that is correct. We have a choice to do good or not do good. That is the logical conclusion of free will. Just because we have God's spirit within us and just because everything he made is good, doesn't mean we can't choose to not do good. It isn't virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. We literally have to choose it for ourselves.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

I believe you know better than that. You just don't want to admit defeat because you are prideful.

Crazy irreal answer on the very little word "yes" in this context.

English please.

 

[zaangalewa]

...

The original meaning of the fall of man has been lost through time. Man was not punished because he disobeyed God, man punishes himself because he fails to be accountable for when he doesn't do good. If everyone everywhere was honest when they didn't do good and took accountability when they didn't do good, mankind's problems would be solved overnight.

Ancient man understood this.

Ancient man? You? ... No one who is able to know what's good and evil is able to live in paradise. That's the way it is.

 

[ding]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence. ...

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant. Everything God made is good.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

Only religious fools would think otherwise.

Regards
DL

I am a fundamental Christian and you are an extremist anti-Christian in my eyes.

Protestant?

One truth - One church: God is Catholic.

I don't believe the Church teaches God is Catholic.

You will have to read the catechism to see your error.

 

[ding]

...

The original meaning of the fall of man has been lost through time. Man was not punished because he disobeyed God, man punishes himself because he fails to be accountable for when he doesn't do good. If everyone everywhere was honest when they didn't do good and took accountability when they didn't do good, mankind's problems would be solved overnight.

Ancient man understood this.

Ancient man? You? ... No one who is able to know what's good and evil is able to live in paradise. That's the way it is.

I never said I was ancient man. I said The original meaning of the fall of man as understood by ancient man has been lost through time. Why are you being so argumentative?

We can know through human reason that God exists and is the source of reality. From this understanding we can deduce why bad things happen to good people.

You are correct that before Adan was placed on earth that they - had no knowledge of good and evil. Adan chose to leave "heaven" which meant they would surely die and have knowledge of good and evil. The fall of man so to speak isn't disobedience to God's ways. The fall of man, so to speak is failing to take accountability for disobedience to God's ways.

Like I said, the original meaning has been lost to you.

 

[zaangalewa]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence.

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant.

If you are life per se then death per se is evil. Only for dead things nothing is evil.

God made life and death.

God made life - more than this: god is life - whether he made death or not I'm not sure.

So you don't agree with what the Bible states that God numbered the days of man to 120 years?

Death and to die, to end life, are totally different things.

Evil is like cold or darkness in that they exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Ergo evil is not extant.

That's nonsense, because the bullet, which kills your mother, is a product in a very complex situation of a very complex human made world. It's not absence - it's wrongness.

Everything works for good. Even the things you don't believe do. You don't have perfect knowledge. God does. So just to be clear, you, as a Christian fundamentalist do not believe that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything God created is good?

Everything God made is good.

... but is the devil good? Are we good?

Yes, we are good but sometimes we choose to not do good. Sometimes we do things that are absent of good.

You don't know what I do.

I don't have to know everything you do to know that not everything you do is good. You aren't special.

But the difference between us and the devil is that God has withdrawn his spirit from the devil

He has what? God loves him - and as far as I can see the devil loves god.

God loves all of his creatures, that's why he doesn't destroy them. But he will withdraw his spirit from them and when that happens it is tormenting. The devil is tormented because God withdrew his spirit from him.

To be honest: Sounds idiotic in my ears. Without the spirit of god never was anything, never is it or will be.

so the devil is always absent of good.

I'm not sure whether this is true.

It's the logical conclusion of God being the source of all that is good.

God is also the source of the devil.

We on the other hand have God's spirit within us and will have his spirit until he removes it from us, usually at our request. God does not destroy what he creates because what he created is good.

Just a moment ago you said we do not good - now we are good. So "we" - whoever your "we" is now - are good evildoers.

Yes, that is correct.

That's what you think. I know lots of people who are anything else than evildoers

We have a choice to do good or not do good. That is the logical conclusion of free will. Just because we have God's spirit within us and just because everything he made is good, doesn't mean we can't choose to not do good. It isn't virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. We literally have to choose it for ourselves.

I heard this many times in the English speaking world.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

I believe you know better than that. You just don't want to admit defeat because you are prideful.

Crazy irreal answer on the very little word "yes" in this context.

English please.

English is an unimportant language for me, I don't need it in my daily life - and everything what you said after I said here "yes" is just simple stupid bullshit. Enough English to understand it now?

 

[zaangalewa]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence. ...

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant. Everything God made is good.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

Only religious fools would think otherwise.

Regards
DL

I am a fundamental Christian and you are an extremist anti-Christian in my eyes.

Protestant?

One truth - One church: God is Catholic.

I don't believe the Church teaches God is Catholic.

Whatelse should he be?

You will have to read the catechism to see your error.

Funny to think in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is written god is not Catholic.

 

[ding]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence.

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant.

If you are life per se then death per se is evil. Only for dead things nothing is evil.

God made life and death.

God made life - more than this: god is life - whether he made death or not I'm not sure.

So you don't agree with what the Bible states that God numbered the days of man to 120 years?

Death and to die, to end life, are totally different things.

Not really. God does not destroy what he creates, so the only death we will suffer will be when we die. Now if you want to try to split hairs and say we suffer a spiritual death I will point to God not destroying the devil. So my question still stands. Does the Bible state that God numbered the days of man to 120 years? You seem to be unnecessarily argumentative so I will answer it for you... yes. God created death. So your premise is flawed. Everything God created is good.

Evil is like cold or darkness in that they exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Ergo evil is not extant.

That's nonsense, because the bullet, which kills your mother, is a product in a very complex situation of a very complex human made world. It's not absence - it's wrongness.

Everything works for good. Even the things you don't believe do. You don't have perfect knowledge. God does. So just to be clear, you, as a Christian fundamentalist do not believe that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything God created is good?

Are you not going to answer this question? Let me answer it for you. Yes. The Bible tells us that everything God created is good and that everything works for good. Why is it you want to blame God for bad things?

Everything God made is good.

... but is the devil good? Are we good?

Yes, we are good but sometimes we choose to not do good. Sometimes we do things that are absent of good.

You don't know what I do.

I don't have to know everything you do to know that not everything you do is good. You aren't special.

No response to this either?

But the difference between us and the devil is that God has withdrawn his spirit from the devil

He has what? God loves him - and as far as I can see the devil loves god.

God loves all of his creatures, that's why he doesn't destroy them. But he will withdraw his spirit from them and when that happens it is tormenting. The devil is tormented because God withdrew his spirit from him.

To be honest: Sounds idiotic in my ears. Without the spirit of god never was anything, never is it or will be.

Yes, God is existence. That doesn't mean he won't withdraw his spirit from you. That's what it means when Jesus said he will invite to the feast who he wants.

so the devil is always absent of good.

I'm not sure whether this is true.

It's the logical conclusion of God being the source of all that is good.

God is also the source of the devil.

Yes, what's your point? Satan was created good. Supposedly he became jealous of man and disobeyed God and God withdrew his spirit from him but did not destroy him. Some Jews have a different take on this but I digress. I don't see how this proves your point that God is responsible for evil though.

We on the other hand have God's spirit within us and will have his spirit until he removes it from us, usually at our request. God does not destroy what he creates because what he created is good.

Just a moment ago you said we do not good - now we are good. So "we" - whoever your "we" is now - are good evildoers.

Yes, that is correct. We have a choice to do good or not do good. That is the logical conclusion of free will. Just because we have God's spirit within us and just because everything he made is good, doesn't mean we can't choose to not do good. It isn't virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. We literally have to choose it for ourselves.

That's what you think. I know lots of people who are anything else than evildoers. I heard this many times in the English speaking world.

Yes, that is what I believe. If you believe otherwise then you are literally blaming God for creating evil which is preposterous.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

I believe you know better than that. You just don't want to admit defeat because you are prideful.

Crazy irreal answer on the very little word "yes" in this context.

English please.

English is an unimportant language for me, I don't need it in my daily life - and everything what you said after I said here "yes" is just simple stupid bullshit. Enough English to understand it now?

Not really because it didn't explain anything. You seem upset. There's no need for that.

 

[zaangalewa]

...

The original meaning of the fall of man has been lost through time. Man was not punished because he disobeyed God, man punishes himself because he fails to be accountable for when he doesn't do good. If everyone everywhere was honest when they didn't do good and took accountability when they didn't do good, mankind's problems would be solved overnight.

Ancient man understood this.

Ancient man? You? ... No one who is able to know what's good and evil is able to live in paradise. That's the way it is.

I never said I was ancient man. I said The original meaning of the fall of man as understood by ancient man has been lost through time. Why are you being so argumentative?

You said ancient men understood your punishment ideas. I gave you an ¿ancient? interpretation without punishment ideas.

We can know through human reason that God exists

No - perhaps you can, what I doubt - I can not.

and is the source of reality.

Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the creator god.

From this understanding we can deduce why bad things happen to good people.

For example: On no special reason. Shit happens.

You are correct that before Adan was placed on earth that they - had no knowledge of good and evil. Adan chose to leave "heaven" which meant they would surely die and have knowledge of good and evil. The fall of man so to speak isn't disobedience to God's ways. The fall of man, so to speak is failing to take accountability for disobedience to God's ways.

?

Like I said, the original meaning has been lost to you.

Lost to me? I would not say so. But this theme is on the other side not very important for me. When my wife gives my a fruit then I eat it always without any mistrust and with good appetite thinking "An apple a day keeps the docotor away".

 

[ding]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence. ...

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant. Everything God made is good.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

Only religious fools would think otherwise.

Regards
DL

I am a fundamental Christian and you are an extremist anti-Christian in my eyes.

Protestant?

One truth - One church: God is Catholic.

I don't believe the Church teaches God is Catholic.

Whatelse should he be?

You will have to read the catechism to see your error.

Funny to think in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is written god is not Catholic.

There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time. In fact the premise is that God is no thing. That God is a spirit. A spirit is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional being outside of our space time. The closest I can come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

God is more like a verb than a noun. Such that God is existence, reality, truth, love, logic, etc. So for you to infer God is one denomination or another is ridiculous.

The Catechism is written to compile the beliefs of Catholics. So before you throw rocks at it, you might want to actually read it and then compile a list of things you agree with and disagree with. Only then can we have an honest discussion.

 

[zaangalewa]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence.

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant.

If you are life per se then death per se is evil. Only for dead things nothing is evil.

God made life and death.

God made life - more than this: god is life - whether he made death or not I'm not sure.

So you don't agree with what the Bible states that God numbered the days of man to 120 years?

Death and to die, to end life, are totally different things.

Not really. God does not destroy what he creates, so the only death we will suffer will be when we die. Now if you want to try to split hairs and say we suffer a spiritual death I will point to God not destroying the devil. So my question still stands. Does the Bible state that God numbered the days of man to 120 years? You seem to be unnecessarily argumentative so I will answer it for you... yes. God created death. So your premise is flawed. Everything God created is good.

Death is shit.

Evil is like cold or darkness in that they exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Ergo evil is not extant.

That's nonsense, because the bullet, which kills your mother, is a product in a very complex situation of a very complex human made world. It's not absence - it's wrongness.

Everything works for good. Even the things you don't believe do. You don't have perfect knowledge. God does. So just to be clear, you, as a Christian fundamentalist do not believe that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything God created is good?

Are you not going to answer this question? Let me answer it for you. Yes. The Bible tells us that everything God created is good and that everything works for good. Why is it you want to blame God for bad things?

?

Everything God made is good.

... but is the devil good? Are we good?

Yes, we are good but sometimes we choose to not do good. Sometimes we do things that are absent of good.

You don't know what I do.

I don't have to know everything you do to know that not everything you do is good. You aren't special.

No response to this either?

But the difference between us and the devil is that God has withdrawn his spirit from the devil

He has what? God loves him - and as far as I can see the devil loves god.

God loves all of his creatures, that's why he doesn't destroy them. But he will withdraw his spirit from them and when that happens it is tormenting. The devil is tormented because God withdrew his spirit from him.

To be honest: Sounds idiotic in my ears. Without the spirit of god never was anything, never is it or will be.

Yes, God is existence. That doesn't mean he won't withdraw his spirit from you. That's what it means when Jesus said he will invite to the feast who he wants.

so the devil is always absent of good.

I'm not sure whether this is true.

It's the logical conclusion of God being the source of all that is good.

God is also the source of the devil.

Yes, what's your point? Satan was created good. Supposedly he became jealous of man and disobeyed God and God withdrew his spirit from him but did not destroy him. Some Jews have a different take on this but I digress. I don't see how this proves your point that God is responsible for evil though.

We on the other hand have God's spirit within us and will have his spirit until he removes it from us, usually at our request. God does not destroy what he creates because what he created is good.

Just a moment ago you said we do not good - now we are good. So "we" - whoever your "we" is now - are good evildoers.

Yes, that is correct. We have a choice to do good or not do good. That is the logical conclusion of free will. Just because we have God's spirit within us and just because everything he made is good, doesn't mean we can't choose to not do good. It isn't virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. We literally have to choose it for ourselves.

That's what you think. I know lots of people who are anything else than evildoers. I heard this many times in the English speaking world.

Yes, that is what I believe. If you believe otherwise then you are literally blaming God for creating evil which is preposterous.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

I believe you know better than that. You just don't want to admit defeat because you are prideful.

Crazy irreal answer on the very little word "yes" in this context.

English please.

English is an unimportant language for me, I don't need it in my daily life - and everything what you said after I said here "yes" is just simple stupid bullshit. Enough English to understand it now?

Not really because it didn't explain anything. You seem upset. There's no need for that.

 

[zaangalewa]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence. ...

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant. Everything God made is good.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

Only religious fools would think otherwise.

Regards
DL

I am a fundamental Christian and you are an extremist anti-Christian in my eyes.

Protestant?

One truth - One church: God is Catholic.

I don't believe the Church teaches God is Catholic.

Whatelse should he be?

You will have to read the catechism to see your error.

Funny to think in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is written god is not Catholic.

There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time.

What a nonsense. He sits just simple here now.

In fact the premise is that God is no thing. That God is a spirit. A spirit is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional being outside of our space time. The closest I can come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

God is more like a verb than a noun. Such that God is existence, reality, truth, love, logic, etc. So for you to infer God is one denomination or another is ridiculous.

The Catechism is written to compile the beliefs of Catholics. So before you throw rocks at it, you might want to actually read it and then compile a list of things you agree with and disagree with. Only then can we have an honest discussion.

Honest discussion? About what?

 

[ding]

...

The original meaning of the fall of man has been lost through time. Man was not punished because he disobeyed God, man punishes himself because he fails to be accountable for when he doesn't do good. If everyone everywhere was honest when they didn't do good and took accountability when they didn't do good, mankind's problems would be solved overnight. Ancient man understood this.

Ancient man? You? ... No one who is able to know what's good and evil is able to live in paradise. That's the way it is.

I never said I was ancient man. I said The original meaning of the fall of man as understood by ancient man has been lost through time. Why are you being so argumentative?

You said ancient men understood your punishment ideas. I gave you an ¿ancient? interpretation without punishment ideas.

I don't believe you understood what I wrote. God isn't punishing us. We are punishing ourselves.

We can know through human reason that God exists and is the source of reality.

No - perhaps you can, what I doubt - I can not. Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the creator god.

It is the logic of a creator God which is accessible to human reason. Why do you believe God exists if it isn't through the self evident reason and logic of creation?

From this understanding we can deduce why bad things happen to good people.

For example: On no special reason. Shit happens.

So again I will tell you the Bible tells us that everything God created is good and that everything works for good. Why do you want to blame God for bad acts of man? Please tell me that you don't believe that everything must be perfect for God to exist. That would makes you sound like an uninformed atheist.

You are correct that before Adan was placed on earth that they - had no knowledge of good and evil. Adan chose to leave "heaven" which meant they would surely die and have knowledge of good and evil. The fall of man so to speak isn't disobedience to God's ways. The fall of man, so to speak is failing to take accountability for disobedience to God's ways.

?

Like I said before, the original meaning has been lost through time.

Like I said, the original meaning has been lost to you.

Lost to me? I would not say so. But this theme is on the other side not very important for me. When my wife gives my a fruit then I eat it always without any mistrust and with good appetite thinking "An apple a day keeps the docotor away".

You just proved the original meaning was lost on you when you responded with a question mark. There are nuances to the account that you have no idea of their significance.

 

[ding]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence. ...

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant. Everything God made is good.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

Only religious fools would think otherwise.

Regards
DL

I am a fundamental Christian and you are an extremist anti-Christian in my eyes.

Protestant?

One truth - One church: God is Catholic.

I don't believe the Church teaches God is Catholic.

Whatelse should he be?

You will have to read the catechism to see your error.

Funny to think in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is written god is not Catholic.

There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time.

What a nonsense. He sits just simple here now.

In fact the premise is that God is no thing. That God is a spirit. A spirit is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional being outside of our space time. The closest I can come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

God is more like a verb than a noun. Such that God is existence, reality, truth, love, logic, etc. So for you to infer God is one denomination or another is ridiculous.

The Catechism is written to compile the beliefs of Catholics. So before you throw rocks at it, you might want to actually read it and then compile a list of things you agree with and disagree with. Only then can we have an honest discussion.

Honest discussion? About what?

It's only nonsense to you because you parsed it rather than addressing the entire content.

An honest discussion about your biases towards Catholics. It's not a good look on you.

 

[ding]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence.

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant.

If you are life per se then death per se is evil. Only for dead things nothing is evil.

God made life and death.

God made life - more than this: god is life - whether he made death or not I'm not sure.

So you don't agree with what the Bible states that God numbered the days of man to 120 years?

Death and to die, to end life, are totally different things.

Not really. God does not destroy what he creates, so the only death we will suffer will be when we die. Now if you want to try to split hairs and say we suffer a spiritual death I will point to God not destroying the devil. So my question still stands. Does the Bible state that God numbered the days of man to 120 years? You seem to be unnecessarily argumentative so I will answer it for you... yes. God created death. So your premise is flawed. Everything God created is good.

Death is shit.

Evil is like cold or darkness in that they exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Ergo evil is not extant.

That's nonsense, because the bullet, which kills your mother, is a product in a very complex situation of a very complex human made world. It's not absence - it's wrongness.

Everything works for good. Even the things you don't believe do. You don't have perfect knowledge. God does. So just to be clear, you, as a Christian fundamentalist do not believe that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything God created is good?

Are you not going to answer this question? Let me answer it for you. Yes. The Bible tells us that everything God created is good and that everything works for good. Why is it you want to blame God for bad things?

?

Everything God made is good.

... but is the devil good? Are we good?

Yes, we are good but sometimes we choose to not do good. Sometimes we do things that are absent of good.

You don't know what I do.

I don't have to know everything you do to know that not everything you do is good. You aren't special.

No response to this either?

But the difference between us and the devil is that God has withdrawn his spirit from the devil

He has what? God loves him - and as far as I can see the devil loves god.

God loves all of his creatures, that's why he doesn't destroy them. But he will withdraw his spirit from them and when that happens it is tormenting. The devil is tormented because God withdrew his spirit from him.

To be honest: Sounds idiotic in my ears. Without the spirit of god never was anything, never is it or will be.

Yes, God is existence. That doesn't mean he won't withdraw his spirit from you. That's what it means when Jesus said he will invite to the feast who he wants.

so the devil is always absent of good.

I'm not sure whether this is true.

It's the logical conclusion of God being the source of all that is good.

God is also the source of the devil.

Yes, what's your point? Satan was created good. Supposedly he became jealous of man and disobeyed God and God withdrew his spirit from him but did not destroy him. Some Jews have a different take on this but I digress. I don't see how this proves your point that God is responsible for evil though.

We on the other hand have God's spirit within us and will have his spirit until he removes it from us, usually at our request. God does not destroy what he creates because what he created is good.

Just a moment ago you said we do not good - now we are good. So "we" - whoever your "we" is now - are good evildoers.

Yes, that is correct. We have a choice to do good or not do good. That is the logical conclusion of free will. Just because we have God's spirit within us and just because everything he made is good, doesn't mean we can't choose to not do good. It isn't virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. We literally have to choose it for ourselves.

That's what you think. I know lots of people who are anything else than evildoers. I heard this many times in the English speaking world.

Yes, that is what I believe. If you believe otherwise then you are literally blaming God for creating evil which is preposterous.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

I believe you know better than that. You just don't want to admit defeat because you are prideful.

Crazy irreal answer on the very little word "yes" in this context.

English please.

English is an unimportant language for me, I don't need it in my daily life - and everything what you said after I said here "yes" is just simple stupid bullshit. Enough English to understand it now?

Not really because it didn't explain anything. You seem upset. There's no need for that.

Death is a part of life. Just look around you the examples of life from death are literally everywhere.

 

[zaangalewa]

Good and evil is a construct of man. It is an artifact of intelligence.

Good and evil is a construct of life.

Evil is not extant.

If you are life per se then death per se is evil. Only for dead things nothing is evil.

God made life and death.

God made life - more than this: god is life - whether he made death or not I'm not sure.

So you don't agree with what the Bible states that God numbered the days of man to 120 years?

Death and to die, to end life, are totally different things.

Not really. God does not destroy what he creates, so the only death we will suffer will be when we die. Now if you want to try to split hairs and say we suffer a spiritual death I will point to God not destroying the devil. So my question still stands. Does the Bible state that God numbered the days of man to 120 years? You seem to be unnecessarily argumentative so I will answer it for you... yes. God created death. So your premise is flawed. Everything God created is good.

Death is shit.

Evil is like cold or darkness in that they exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of good. Ergo evil is not extant.

That's nonsense, because the bullet, which kills your mother, is a product in a very complex situation of a very complex human made world. It's not absence - it's wrongness.

Everything works for good. Even the things you don't believe do. You don't have perfect knowledge. God does. So just to be clear, you, as a Christian fundamentalist do not believe that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything works for good? Doesn't the Bible tell you that everything God created is good?

Are you not going to answer this question? Let me answer it for you. Yes. The Bible tells us that everything God created is good and that everything works for good. Why is it you want to blame God for bad things?

?

Everything God made is good.

... but is the devil good? Are we good?

Yes, we are good but sometimes we choose to not do good. Sometimes we do things that are absent of good.

You don't know what I do.

I don't have to know everything you do to know that not everything you do is good. You aren't special.

No response to this either?

But the difference between us and the devil is that God has withdrawn his spirit from the devil

He has what? God loves him - and as far as I can see the devil loves god.

God loves all of his creatures, that's why he doesn't destroy them. But he will withdraw his spirit from them and when that happens it is tormenting. The devil is tormented because God withdrew his spirit from him.

To be honest: Sounds idiotic in my ears. Without the spirit of god never was anything, never is it or will be.

Yes, God is existence. That doesn't mean he won't withdraw his spirit from you. That's what it means when Jesus said he will invite to the feast who he wants.

so the devil is always absent of good.

I'm not sure whether this is true.

It's the logical conclusion of God being the source of all that is good.

God is also the source of the devil.

Yes, what's your point? Satan was created good. Supposedly he became jealous of man and disobeyed God and God withdrew his spirit from him but did not destroy him. Some Jews have a different take on this but I digress. I don't see how this proves your point that God is responsible for evil though.

We on the other hand have God's spirit within us and will have his spirit until he removes it from us, usually at our request. God does not destroy what he creates because what he created is good.

Just a moment ago you said we do not good - now we are good. So "we" - whoever your "we" is now - are good evildoers.

Yes, that is correct. We have a choice to do good or not do good. That is the logical conclusion of free will. Just because we have God's spirit within us and just because everything he made is good, doesn't mean we can't choose to not do good. It isn't virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. We literally have to choose it for ourselves.

That's what you think. I know lots of people who are anything else than evildoers. I heard this many times in the English speaking world.

Yes, that is what I believe. If you believe otherwise then you are literally blaming God for creating evil which is preposterous.

Does the sheep see the wolf as evil for eating her lamb?

Yes.

I believe you know better than that. You just don't want to admit defeat because you are prideful.

Crazy irreal answer on the very little word "yes" in this context.

English please.

English is an unimportant language for me, I don't need it in my daily life - and everything what you said after I said here "yes" is just simple stupid bullshit. Enough English to understand it now?

Not really because it didn't explain anything. You seem upset. There's no need for that.

Death is a part of life.

Death is the situation after end of life. So death and life exclude each other. I believe in the magic of life - and not in the power of death. It's never good to fight for death. It's always good to fight for all and every life. “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

Just look around you

What a chaos. I should start to clear this chaos in the next few years ... or not ... or never. I love chaos. Chaos is an extremely complex form of dynamic order ... Chaos is life.

the examples of life from death are literally everywhere.

Hmm. ... Just a moment ago I spoke with my wife about the little bird, which was fallen out of his nest some days ago. We saw now in a film, what professionals are doing in such cases, so we are convinced, it was the best to do nothing - what we did do after a longer discussion. It existed a good chance the parents were able to save their baby. Or a cat got a breakfast. Now we don't know, and never will know, what had happened. But we hope it was the best.

And how are you? Did you fight successfully today in the morning with your breakfast, so you are more evolved now?

 

[zaangalewa]

...
It's only nonsense to you because you parsed it rather than addressing the entire content.

An honest discussion about your biases towards Catholics. It's not a good look on you.

I have biases towards me? Sure - sometimes I call me an idiot - and unfortunatelly I'm not always wrong to do so. That's not nice - but I forgive me.

 

[zaangalewa]

...

The original meaning of the fall of man has been lost through time. Man was not punished because he disobeyed God, man punishes himself because he fails to be accountable for when he doesn't do good. If everyone everywhere was honest when they didn't do good and took accountability when they didn't do good, mankind's problems would be solved overnight. Ancient man understood this.

Ancient man? You? ... No one who is able to know what's good and evil is able to live in paradise. That's the way it is.

I never said I was ancient man. I said The original meaning of the fall of man as understood by ancient man has been lost through time. Why are you being so argumentative?

You said ancient men understood your punishment ideas. I gave you an ¿ancient? interpretation without punishment ideas.

I don't believe you understood what I wrote. God isn't punishing us. We are punishing ourselves.

We can know through human reason that God exists and is the source of reality.

No - perhaps you can, what I doubt - I can not. Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the creator god.

It is the logic of a creator God which is accessible to human reason. Why do you believe God exists if it isn't through the self evident reason and logic of creation?

From this understanding we can deduce why bad things happen to good people.

For example: On no special reason. Shit happens.

So again I will tell you the Bible tells us that everything God created is good and that everything works for good. Why do you want to blame God for bad acts of man? Please tell me that you don't believe that everything must be perfect for God to exist. That would makes you sound like an uninformed atheist.

You are correct that before Adan was placed on earth that they - had no knowledge of good and evil. Adan chose to leave "heaven" which meant they would surely die and have knowledge of good and evil. The fall of man so to speak isn't disobedience to God's ways. The fall of man, so to speak is failing to take accountability for disobedience to God's ways.

?

Like I said before, the original meaning has been lost through time.

Like I said, the original meaning has been lost to you.

Lost to me? I would not say so. But this theme is on the other side not very important for me. When my wife gives my a fruit then I eat it always without any mistrust and with good appetite thinking "An apple a day keeps the docotor away".

You just proved the original meaning was lost on you when you responded with a question mark. There are nuances to the account that you have no idea of their significance.

no comment

 

[ding]

Death is the situation after end of life. So death and life exclude each other. I believe in the magic of life - and not in the power of death. It's never good to fight for death. It's always good to fight for all and every life. “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

And yet every living thing is destined to die.

"...If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it..." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

 

[ding]

What a chaos. I should start to clear this chaos in the next few years ... or not ... or never. I love chaos. Chaos is an extremely complex form of dynamic order ... Chaos is life.

Order from chaos is life. Chaos in and of itself is anarchy. There is nothing noble about anarchy.