Is the GOP intentionally preventing a recovery?

[kaz]

Liberals simply cannot admit to themselves that a large majority of people reject their agenda.

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

People believing that conservatives should advance a conservative agenda on their own rather then through government force and that liberals should advance a liberal agenda on their own rather then through government force.

We are called libertarians. A true conservative or a true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they are actually free to pursue their goals

 

[daveman]

What a load of crap. I guess you don't remember calling people anti-american for not supporting Bush' little trip to Iraq. I will never forget it. Obviously you want to forget it because we were right. We shouldn't have gone into Iraq.

Are you saying I personally called people anti-American for not supporting the invasion of Iraq?

Wow. I'd like to see some proof of that claim.

Of course, you don't have any. And yes, there are idiots who claim that criticizing Obama is un-American and traitorous:

MSNBC Whacko: UnAmerican to Criticize Obama! How Dare Palin Call Obama UnAmerican! | The Lonely Conservative

Stewart: Limbaugh 'Arguably Treasonous' Wanting Obama To Fail | NewsBusters.org

So, it looks like you're full of crap.

I don't have to wait for Obama to find any al Qaeda...He already did, in Pakistan, and killed the MF. Your side couldn't find him in 7 yrs. Of course as Bush says himself, he didn't concern himself with OBL. But there were a whole hell of a lot of us that did care and there were kids that never knew life without that boogy man.

You can mock the president all you want, but he took a big, black cloud off of our backs with the assination of OBL. And while you might try and spin the facts there are little kids going to bed tonight that know they don't have to be afraid of that boogy man anymore.

Obama is ever so dreamy. He's the bestest President ever!!

 

[Provocateur]

Liberals simply cannot admit to themselves that a large majority of people reject their agenda.

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

And you base this "large majority" on what factual information?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Liberals simply cannot admit to themselves that a large majority of people reject their agenda.

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

People believing that conservatives should advance a conservative agenda on their own rather then through government force and that liberals should advance a liberal agenda on their own rather then through government force.

We are called libertarians. A true conservative or a true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they are actually free to pursue their goals

great then you 2 should hook up and start this 3rd party everyone seems to be waiting for........

 

[Too Tall]

Yes they are. And this isn't the first time or even the worst thing they've done. Remember how they responded to the terrorists attacks on Clinton's watch? Did you see them rushing out all sorts of anti terrorism legislation back then? No, you didn't, because for the Republicans us being attacked while a Democrat was in the White House was a political plus

I am sure you were 100% behind the Patriot Act that Bush signed into law.

Do you really think that Clinton's response to the terrorist attacks while he was in office warranted anti-terrorist legislation? Clinton considered the first attack on the World Trade Center a law enforcement problem. He had a Democrat majority in the House and the Senate at the time and I didn't see any rush for anti-terrorist legislation from them.

As I recall, Clinton wouldn't even acknowledge that the attack on the USS Cole was a terrorist act, and he damned well didn't ask for any legislation.

There are actually two reasons why you believe that Clinton didn't do very much. First was because he was under attack that that was pretty much all the media fixated on. After all we wouldn't want to miss a good sex scandal would we?

But the second is that congress did all they could to prevent him from doing anything. Did you know that Clinton issued an executive order seizing OBL's bank accounts? Yep, and informed congress after he did it.

TEXT: CLINTON LETTER TO CONGRESS ON FREEZING BIN LADIN ASSETS
News from the USIA Washington File

He also tried to get an anti-terrorism bill passed. From 1995

Clinton Urges Fast Action on Terrorism Bill
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/09/us/clinton-urges-fast-action-on-terrorism-bill.htm

WHITE HOUSE FACT SHEET ON COUNTER-TERRORISM MEASURES
White House Counter-Terrorism Fact Sheet

I wasn't living in the US during most of the 90's so after 9/11 when the right was blaming Clinton for the attack I started doing some research. What I found was that the right was going after Clinton on every front. I still have a little more info, but sadly as time goes on more links are becoming inactive.

Clinton signs anti-terrorism bill

Praises bipartisan support
April 24, 1996
Web posted at: 4:00 p.m. EDT

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton signed legislation Wednesday that "strikes a mighty blow" against terrorism, giving the government many of the anti-terrorist powers he proposed a year ago after the Oklahoma City bombing. The law makes it easier for the United States to deport non-citizens suspected of terrorism links and bans fund-raising in the U.S. by terrorist groups.

Families of victims and survivors from the Oklahoma City blast and 1993 World Trade Center bombing in New York looked on as Clinton signed the measure on the south lawn of the White House. "This is a good day because our police officers are now going to be better prepared to stop terrorists, our prosecutors better prepared to punish them and our people are going to be better protected from their designs," Clinton said.

CNN - Clinton signs anti-terrorism bill - April 24, 1996

What I believe is that Clinton is a bottom-feeding low-life and the ultimate confidence man. He took advantage of a star struck intern and then, not only lied about it to the entire world, but sent his cabinet members out to the media to repeat his lies. And, not a single one of them resigned when the truth was outed.

The question is what else did he lie about? The honorable thing to do would have been to resign and turn the Presidency over to Al Gore. But then, Clinton does not know the meaning of the word honorable.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Liberals simply cannot admit to themselves that a large majority of people reject their agenda.

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

And you base this "large majority" on what factual information?

the same information that Bri used......how come you did not ask him the same question?............half this Country just does not seem to want to play ball with the other half.....thats my "factual" information.....

 

[Chris]

You still haven't explained how the government is entitled to take my money. It's a moral question. I know that makes it difficult for a lib to answer.

Because paying taxes is good for America.

But modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

No, paying taxes is not good for America. Furthermore, that doesn't explain how the government is entitled to take my money. All it says is that you approve.

Like I said, modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfshness.

It is patriotic to pay taxes.

 

[Chris]

Some people are saying no, see the 'argument' against, here:

Schumer's conspiracy theory: GOP sabotaging recovery | David Freddoso | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner

The evidence suggests Schumer's on to something. The House of Representatives has offered no debate on the issue of unemployment and has passed only 18 bills since taking control in January. 15 of those bills were passed to name federal buildings after someone. This do-nothing congress sees no urgency as millions of Americans are out of work, work one or two or three part time jobs simply to pay rent or the morgage on a home underwater.

The GOP leadership in both houses of congress has opposed all efforts by the president, and even turned down an offer by President Obama to reduce the payroll tax for businees. It seems ideology is only an excuse, the real reason is their lust for power.

The Republicans created 93% of the National Debt, allowed Wall Street to run a $516 trillion dollar derivative Ponzi scheme, got us into two useless wars, and now they want to wreck the economy again, force women to have unwanted children, kill Medicare, and kill Social Security.

The are evil.

I'd ask you why we should care about $516 trillion in derivatives, but you've already shown your inability to do simple math.

Are you really this stupid?

It was the derivative bubble that brought down our economy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Republicans created 93% of the National Debt, allowed Wall Street to run a $516 trillion dollar derivative Ponzi scheme, got us into two useless wars, and now they want to wreck the economy again, force women to have unwanted children, kill Medicare, and kill Social Security.

The are evil.

I'd ask you why we should care about $516 trillion in derivatives, but you've already shown your inability to do simple math.

Are you really this stupid?

It was the derivative bubble that brought down our economy.

Our economy was brought down when homeowners started defaulting on their mortgages.
Derivatives had nothing to do with it.
It's okay for you to admit you don't understand derivatives. Not many people do.

 

[Trajan]

My earning the money in the United States makes it the government's money? I thought the government was for the benefit of the people, not the other way around. Then again I'm not a Marxist like you are.

you seem to be a rational guy here, so let me throw a Q out there....is it perhaps better to determine how much money via taxes it is reasonable to part from someone before the amount changes behavior to the extent it becomes counter productive?

Personally I think that number is around 33-38 %.

Depends.

Taxes and work « Consider the Evidence

from the link-


A good recent study of work hours among those who have a job concludes that taxes seem to have an effect for women but not for men,

easy, thats because they want more shoes...


in all seriousness that was an interesting article and food for thought. It appears to me though that this being a consumer market and we all buy way much more shit than we need the pursuit of hours is to pay for it AND the leveled up life style that we are used to at almost all levels of income...a guy at 100k a year has more expensive toys there fore he/she requires a higher income.


Remember that the 16 th. amend. was levied and sold as a nationalized soak the rich/ millionaires tax. However the gov. broke its word eventually......In the period in between 1925 and say 1980 the huge tax burden meant for the "rich" was completely intact.

In 1960 however, there after as the country became ‘wealthier’ we decided to spend a a very great deal on transfer payments, plain and simple and back ourselves into several ponzi schemes……

the biggest mistake was allowing it to get started to begin with.

They learned what de Tocqueville warned against and feared, to paraphrase; once the political class discovers they can bribe the people with their own money, its heading for the shitter....



"The courts have ruled that the Sixteenth Amendment allows a direct tax on "wages, salaries, commissions, etc. without apportionment."

once the court battles were over and that genie was out of the bottle, this was all preordained.


My particular take and sense of/on people is; they will sit still for 30 to maybe 40%, once it gets to 40-50 range, they start thinking on it as it becomes apparent they work literally half the year for the state and/or federal gov., there is only so much people will allow to be taken from them for so long.

Add in the concomitant mismanagement of the public fisc which just adds to peoples feelings of frustration, you hit a tipping point where in it does stifle energy, ambition, motivation, even greed. *shrugs*


lastly....take a look at theese rates charts 1913- to present……the story of the sociological HENCE financial ups and downs for the last 90 odd years, is right there.....

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011

notice anything peculiar in the rate(s) ‘waves’ thru the years?

 

[Trajan]

My earning the money in the United States makes it the government's money? I thought the government was for the benefit of the people, not the other way around. Then again I'm not a Marxist like you are.

you seem to be a rational guy here, so let me throw a Q out there....is it perhaps better to determine how much money via taxes it is reasonable to part from someone before the amount changes behavior to the extent it becomes counter productive?

Personally I think that number is around 33-38 %.

I personally don't think government should ever take more then 10% of a dollar earned. Though I realize that's not the question you asked. I think you're still a bit high, but if that includes all taxes and not just Federal Income it's probably not that far off.

I personally support the Fair Tax. Perfect, no. But the best proposal I've seen. The reality is that all taxes are in the end baked into the price of products we buy (except the death tax). By taxing it directly we benefit from the removal of government using taxes to further it's power, redundant tax collection systems, waste in calculating taxes and disincentives to the free pursuit of earnings and investment.

agreed....see my response to Toro.....

 

[Synthaholic]

Synth.....yes or no.....are their Liberals here who do the same thing day in and day out?.....

Yes.

thank you for being honest .....there a few "Libs" here that when i ask them that......they go into a big song and dance.....but never answer the question.....same with the overly Right Righties here......

Well, I would say there are more Righties who do it on this site, but if you went over to DemocraticUnderground.com, you would find many more Lefties who do it.

It's just the nature of the boards' orientations.

 

[Trajan]

Since when is someone wishing for a President to fail considered a traitorous act? Does the term 'the loyal opposition' ring a bell for you?

Now that Obama has bombed six sovereign nations, which is an act of war by any definition, we can't afford for him to get another term.

I can hardly wait for this community organizer to discover an al queda operative in Russia or China. They will not put up with his aggression and you just thought Bush was a cowboy.

Now, it's treason.

What a load of crap. I guess you don't remember calling people anti-american for not supporting Bush' little trip to Iraq. I will never forget it. Obviously you want to forget it because we were right. We shouldn't have gone into Iraq.

I don't have to wait for Obama to find any al Qaeda...He already did, in Pakistan, and killed the MF. Your side couldn't find him in 7 yrs. Of course as Bush says himself, he didn't concern himself with OBL. But there were a whole hell of a lot of us that did care and there were kids that never knew life without that boogy man.

You can mock the president all you want, but he took a big, black cloud off of our backs with the assination of OBL. And while you might try and spin the facts there are little kids going to bed tonight that know they don't have to be afraid of that boogy man anymore.

the jury is still out on the iraq invasion susan.

 

[EriktheRed]

Is the GOP intentionally preventing a recovery?

Yup.

 

[daveman]

Because paying taxes is good for America.

But modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

No, paying taxes is not good for America. Furthermore, that doesn't explain how the government is entitled to take my money. All it says is that you approve.

Like I said, modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfshness.

It is patriotic to pay taxes.

Modern day liberalism is the political codification of covetousness.

It is patriotic to want what you haven't earned.

 

[Susan45]

Liberals simply cannot admit to themselves that a large majority of people reject their agenda.

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

People believing that conservatives should advance a conservative agenda on their own rather then through government force and that liberals should advance a liberal agenda on their own rather then through government force.

We are called libertarians. A true conservative or a true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they are actually free to pursue their goals

I am a liberal and have been a liberal for 50 years. I am not a libertarian of any kind and heaven only knows I don't need them for anything, especially my freedom. I don't need that bunch of pantywaists to be free. In fact since they are totally against single payer healthcare insurance I don't think they actually promote freedom for anyone, except the insurance company profits of course. They choose money over people. No "true" liberal would ever do that. So please, stop this crap because it kind of makes me feel ill.

True freedom is being healthy and having the money to get well if sick. And those pantywaists would support the status quo to make sure that the insurance companies make maximum profits. This is nothing esoteric, not smart words. But real living. I'm an old lady now and I have watched with despair as people have lost everything because they got sick.

And you bring up libertarianism and freedom in the same sentence? What a crock.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It is patriotic to pay taxes.

no it isnt......if that were true then i guess some of us are much more Patriotic than than others......and some things are taxed that are uncalled for...is that Patriotic?.....some people pay taxes for things that they cant use......is that Patriotic?.....maybe you should write a book on what it means to be Patriotic....

 

[Susan45]

Now, it's treason.

What a load of crap. I guess you don't remember calling people anti-american for not supporting Bush' little trip to Iraq. I will never forget it. Obviously you want to forget it because we were right. We shouldn't have gone into Iraq.

I don't have to wait for Obama to find any al Qaeda...He already did, in Pakistan, and killed the MF. Your side couldn't find him in 7 yrs. Of course as Bush says himself, he didn't concern himself with OBL. But there were a whole hell of a lot of us that did care and there were kids that never knew life without that boogy man.

You can mock the president all you want, but he took a big, black cloud off of our backs with the assination of OBL. And while you might try and spin the facts there are little kids going to bed tonight that know they don't have to be afraid of that boogy man anymore.

the jury is still out on the iraq invasion susan.

Maybe the jury is still out for you. But I was against the invasion from the beginning. When I first started hearing about it, the TH's were all over the media saying how we'd be greeted with flowers, they would be happy we invaded. And I knew with every nerve in my body they were wrong. I knew that the women in Iraq didn't have it as bad as some middle east countries and I knew they did not want us to come. And I was right. While we were told we would be there 6 months tops, I knew they were lying. When they said they didn't have to have a war tax because it would pay for itself, I knew they were lying.

For some reason one of the interviews about Iraq was with Thomas Friedman and I was so ******* mad at his sanctimony. I am stlll mad at him...I'm a very good grudge holder. I don't see myself outliving this grudge.

Personally I don't know how you can think that the jury is still out, it was a lie from beginning to end. But please feel free think whatever you choose as will I.

 

[xsited1]

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

People believing that conservatives should advance a conservative agenda on their own rather then through government force and that liberals should advance a liberal agenda on their own rather then through government force.

We are called libertarians. A true conservative or a true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they are actually free to pursue their goals

I am a liberal and have been a liberal for 50 years. I am not a libertarian of any kind and heaven only knows I don't need them for anything, especially my freedom. I don't need that bunch of pantywaists to be free. In fact since they are totally against single payer healthcare insurance I don't think they actually promote freedom for anyone, except the insurance company profits of course. They choose money over people. No "true" liberal would ever do that. So please, stop this crap because it kind of makes me feel ill.

True freedom is being healthy and having the money to get well if sick. And those pantywaists would support the status quo to make sure that the insurance companies make maximum profits. This is nothing esoteric, not smart words. But real living. I'm an old lady now and I have watched with despair as people have lost everything because they got sick.

And you bring up libertarianism and freedom in the same sentence? What a crock.

True freedom is being healthy and having the money to get well if sick?

Do you mind if I quote you on that?

 

[Trajan]

a large majority of people reject the Conservative agenda too......so whats left?.....

People believing that conservatives should advance a conservative agenda on their own rather then through government force and that liberals should advance a liberal agenda on their own rather then through government force.

We are called libertarians. A true conservative or a true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they are actually free to pursue their goals

I am a liberal and have been a liberal for 50 years. I am not a libertarian of any kind and heaven only knows I don't need them for anything, especially my freedom. I don't need that bunch of pantywaists to be free. In fact since they are totally against single payer healthcare insurance I don't think they actually promote freedom for anyone, except the insurance company profits of course. They choose money over people. No "true" liberal would ever do that. So please, stop this crap because it kind of makes me feel ill.

True freedom is being healthy and having the money to get well if sick. And those pantywaists would support the status quo to make sure that the insurance companies make maximum profits. This is nothing esoteric, not smart words. But real living. I'm an old lady now and I have watched with despair as people have lost everything because they got sick.

And you bring up libertarianism and freedom in the same sentence? What a crock.

you have got to be kidding.... sources I have a feeling you'll appreciate;



NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option

For months I've been reporting in The Huffington Post that President Obama made a backroom deal last summer with the for-profit hospital lobby that he would make sure there would be no national public option in the final health reform legislation.

Miles Mogulescu: NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option


and-

Wendell Potter Says 'The Fat Cats Are Winning,' This is A 'Pig of a Bill.'


Former CIGNA PR chief Wendell Potter is very, very angry over Obama's movement away from true healthcare reform..

Wendell Potter Says 'The Fat Cats Are Winning,' This is A 'Pig of a Bill.' | Crooks and Liars