Is the extreme rights opposition to Ukraine support based on hatred of Biden ?

[Tommy Tainant]

So the US gets a free hand to execute 2 coups in Ukraine? Ukraine doesn't have to payback USSR debts? And Ukraine gets to bomb ethnic Russians?

This is the argument you're going with?

Ukraine is a sovereign nation that has been invaded by barbarians.That is the argument I am going with. Lovers of freedom understand that.

 

[Mac1958]

Biden crime family, my left nut! You need new material.

I doubt that the GQP actually gives two shits about Biden per se. They're just doing what they're conditioned to do.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Ukrainian Nazis are allowed free reign to kill Russian nationals?

Propoganda. All the fighting has taken place on Ukranian soil. Russia is the guilty party.

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation that has been invaded by barbarians.That is the argument I am going with. Lovers of freedom understand that.

So Ukraine should be allowed to kill ethnic Russians for 8 years straight, should be able to default on money owed to Russia and everyone should ignore the 2014 coup that ousted the Democratically elected President in favor of a pro NATO one who btw bombed and killed ethnic Russians.

You sound like Hitler not Putin

 

[SweetTea]

I doubt that the GQP actually gives two shits about Biden per se. They're just doing what they're conditioned to do.

Yes, we are conditioned to oppose pure idiocy. The vast majority of Biden's policies qualify.

 

[Couchpotato]

MTG Calls For Biden’s Impeachment Over Surprise Kyiv Visit

She was also upset that Zelensky didn’t wear a tie for the occasion.

www.thedailybeast.com

I know that the mainstream GOP is generally supportive and I do not include them in this..

But some of the reaction seems to be absurd. They offer no solutions to the problem,just criticism of every action that the President takes.

Biden has enough problems in rebuilding the US without the bother of Ukraine.This is a problem that has been forced on him.

There are several detractors on here. Perhaps you could share your thoughts on the war.

What would you have done differently.

The opposition is the blank check. The opposition is to the lack of accounting for the money and weapons. The opposition is to the US not examining how we factor into this coming about and hitting the easy "blame Putin" button for the entire debacle.

 

[Doug1943]

People on the Right, like me, have one problem re. Ukraine: Putin fired the first shot. And no matter how much you may have been provoked by your opponent, if you fire the first shot, you lose a lot of moral authority.

It's why we worked to make the Japanese fire the first shot before WWII.

Plus, like the fellow in the Irish joke responding to a request for directions to Dublin, we have to say, Well, we wouldn't have started from here.

American policy re. Russia in general and Ukraine in particular has a thirty-year history, and a bad one. No time to go into it all over again here. For a short briefing, look here:
[ The First US Onslaught to “Weaken” Post-Cold War Russia. ]

So, now we're like people who have been kibbitizing a bad chess player ... "No, no ... don't put your rook in front of your queen! ... Look, move there and fork him! No , no ..." and at the 11th move, when he's three pieces down and his opponent controls the center of the board, the exasperated bad player turns to us and says, "Okay, smart guy ... you take over!"

But ... regardless of the rights and wrongs of the war in Ukraine, there are indeed people on the Right who have, or had, some admiration for Vladimir Putin.

Not because they're fascist/authoritarians and so is he -- that's just an idiot-liberal mind-fart -- but because he is resisting what they see as unacceptable New World Order/Globalism in general, and the cultural destruction of his country in particular. (There is a close analogy with the Old Left here: the Old Left, in its majority, admired Stalin and Mao. Not because they were a ruthless authoritarians -- there were plenty of those on the Right, as well, whom they did not admire -- , but because they saw them using their ruthless authoritarianism in the service of socialism and national liberation, something they supported.)

This case is made in more detail here, in the negative: the real reason liberals got angry at Putin: [ https:// richardhanania.substack.com/p/russia-as-the-great-satan-in-the ]

And of course there is the 'payback-time' factor: you called Trump a Russian agent, so we'll call Biden a Ukrainian agent ... and raise you one by saying he's also bought by China. (I think all such accusations were/are largely garbage, but each had enough truth to them to give them traction among the partisan.)

Another strain of thinking -- sort of 'thinking' -- on the Right is: why give our money to Ukraine, we need it here. Not an entirely wrong reflex, but the basic principle implied is: it is never ever right to spend money supporting one side in a war abroad. So we shouldn't have given 50 destroyers to the British when they -- but not yet us -- were fighting Hitler, or supported the Chinese Nationalists against the Japanese militarists.

And, finally, there is indeed a small, but coherent, tendency -- on the 'Right' in some sense, although not welcomed by us -- which does indeed like the authoritarian character of the current Russian government as such, likes its nationalism, likes its supposed Christianity, etc.

However, these people have one little problem: Russia is justifying its war in ANTI-fascist terms. The most open, self-avowed fascists in this conflict are the extreme Ukrainian nationalists, like the swastika-admiring Azov Batallion. A dilemma for them.

These are the people you see slyly referring to the 'Khazarian Mafia', or a 'genetically-related group', etc (ie, the Jews), as behind the whole thing. They are to us as those people -- if they're still any left -- who held up Hoxha's ultra-Stalinist Albania
[ which was a kind of socialist Haiti ] as the very peak of social progress, are to the Left.

 

[SweetTea]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation that has been invaded by barbarians.That is the argument I am going with. Lovers of freedom understand that.

Democrats want more and more government control and more and more regulation. They are opposed to any speech with which they don't agree. Why on earth would anyone listen to them opining on the tenants of being free?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So Ukraine should be allowed to kill ethnic Russians for 8 years straight, should be able to default on money owed to Russia and everyone should ignore the 2014 coup that ousted the Democratically elected President in favor of a pro NATO one who btw bombed and killed ethnic Russians.

You sound like Hitler not Putin

Democrats want more and more government control and more and more regulation. They are opposed to any speech with which they don't agree. Why on earth would anyone listen to them opining on the tenants of being free?

Mainstream republicans agree with them. Only the crazies seem to be bothered.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

People on the Right, like me, have one problem re. Ukraine: Putin fired the first shot. And no matter how much you may have been provoked by your opponent, if you fire the first shot, you lose a lot of moral authority.

It's why we worked to make the Japanese fire the first shot before WWII.

Plus, like the fellow in the Irish joke responding to a request for directions to Dublin, we have to say, Well, we wouldn't have started from here.

American policy re. Russia in general and Ukraine in particular has a thirty-year history, and a bad one. No time to go into it all over again here. For a short briefing, look here:
[ The First US Onslaught to “Weaken” Post-Cold War Russia. ]

So, now we're like people who have been kibbitizing a bad chess player ... "No, no ... don't put your rook in front of your queen! ... Look, move there and fork him! No , no ..." and at the 11th move, when he's three pieces down and his opponent controls the center of the board, the exasperated bad player turns to us and says, "Okay, smart guy ... you take over!"

But ... regardless of the rights and wrongs of the war in Ukraine, there are indeed people on the Right who have, or had, some admiration for Vladimir Putin.

Not because they're fascist/authoritarians and so is he -- that's just an idiot-liberal mind-fart -- but because he is resisting what they see as unacceptable New World Order/Globalism in general, and the cultural destruction of his country in particular. (There is a close analogy with the Old Left here: the Old Left, in its majority, admired Stalin and Mao. Not because they were a ruthless authoritarians -- there were plenty of those on the Right, as well, whom they did not admire -- , but because they saw them using their ruthless authoritarianism in the service of socialism and national liberation, something they supported.)

This case is made in more detail here, in the negative: the real reason liberals got angry at Putin: [ https:// richardhanania.substack.com/p/russia-as-the-great-satan-in-the ]

And of course there is the 'payback-time' factor: you called Trump a Russian agent, so we'll call Biden a Ukrainian agent ... and raise you one by saying he's also bought by China. (I think all such accusations were/are largely garbage, but each had enough truth to them to give them traction among the partisan.)

Another strain of thinking -- sort of 'thinking' -- on the Right is: why give our money to Ukraine, we need it here. Not an entirely wrong reflex, but the basic principle implied is: it is never ever right to spend money supporting one side in a war abroad. So we shouldn't have given 50 destroyers to the British when they -- but not yet us -- were fighting Hitler, or supported the Chinese Nationalists against the Japanese militarists.

And, finally, there is indeed a small, but coherent, tendency -- on the 'Right' in some sense, although not welcomed by us -- which does indeed like the authoritarian character of the current Russian government as such, likes its nationalism, likes its supposed Christianity, etc.

However, these people have one little problem: Russia is justifying its war in ANTI-fascist terms. The most open, self-avowed fascists in this conflict are the extreme Ukrainian nationalists, like the swastika-admiring Azov Batallion. A dilemma for them.

These are the people you see slyly referring to the 'Khazarian Mafia', or a 'genetically-related group', etc (ie, the Jews), as behind the whole thing. They are to us as those people -- if they're still any left -- who held up Hoxha's ultra-Stalinist Albania
[ which was a kind of socialist Haiti ] as the very peak of social progress, are to the Left.

Putin wants to rebuild the soviet empire. This is a part of that. He has history in other former soviet countries. he wasnt engineered into this, he dived in head first.

See Georgia, Moldova.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The opposition is the blank check. The opposition is to the lack of accounting for the money and weapons. The opposition is to the US not examining how we factor into this coming about and hitting the easy "blame Putin" button for the entire debacle.

Putin is the problem. Its all on him.

 

[Couchpotato]

Putin is the problem. Its all on him.

That simplistic way of thinking is what got us into this mess.

 

[Doug1943]

Putin wants to rebuild the soviet empire. This is a part of that. He has history in other former soviet countries. he wasnt engineered into this, he dived in head first.

See Georgia, Moldova.

Okay, what is it that we should see in Georgia and Moldova?

 

[Papageorgio]

Give them what they need.

Let Europe give them what they need, we have given Ukraine over twice as much aid as all other countries in the world combined. Let Europe sacrifice, we have our own issues. I hate Russia but I hate the evil in Ukraine as well. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

 

[Couchpotato]

Putin wants to rebuild the soviet empire. This is a part of that. He has history in other former soviet countries. he wasnt engineered into this, he dived in head first.

See Georgia, Moldova.

And you dont think the US and NATO's advancement toward their borders has anything to do with that desire? You don't think the US orchestrating a coup in Ukraine to get the pro-Russian government ousted and a pro-Western government elected has anything to do with that? You don't think the US's adversarial relationship with Russia plays a part? These things dont absolve Putin or Russia for the actions but to act like they didnt play a part in getting us to where we are currently is fantasy. It also leads us to keep doing the stupid shit that causes these things to come about.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Putin is the problem. Its all on him.

Takes two to tango and no one else. The Ukrainians don't hate or blame the Russians in general and vice-versa. This is an extremely complex, limited dispute directly involving no NATO members. Biden (the MIC) deliberately aggravated the situation by obviously bombing the pipeline -- a war crime that neither he nor any U.S. leader will ever cop to -- even though all know no one else could have possibly done it.

As I've stated, other than continually urging them to seek a diplomatic solution we should get TF out, let them get it sorted, and simply accept whatever the ultimate outcome may be. Same for Vietnam, Cambodia, etc., etc., etc. War solves nothing. The survivors still need to discover a mutually agreeable way to live together, regardless of what the supposed "Winner" may or may not dictate later.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Propoganda. All the fighting has taken place on Ukranian soil. Russia is the guilty party.

Yes! But the fighting started when Ukranian Nazis, but I repeat myself, chose to disregard the Minsk accords and started killing Russian Nationals in Ukraine.

If Ukranian Nazi were killing British Nationals in Ukraine, would you want your government to take any actions?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Russian propaganda.

^ Uninformed ignoramus

 

[jwoodie]

we have the blind partisan right who in knee-jerk fashion will oppose anything President Biden does.

What has Biden done that warrants bipartisan support?

 

[j-mac]

Tommy Tainant

Is the extreme rights opposition to Ukraine support based on hatred of Biden ?

I think the first question to the premise of your title has to be what do you define as "extreme right"? Is that just anyone who opposes your leftist views?

Second would be in you defining "Hatred for Biden".... Is that anything that opposes what President Biden is doing while in office?