Is religion really so bad?

[ding]

'Religion' creates nothing; people created religion and they are responsible for what works and does not. Unfortunately, most of mankind's religions have served to control the mind and spirit of mankind.

Karl Marx had that exact same belief.

 

[Taz]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

 

[ding]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

 

[Taz]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

 

[ding]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

 

[Taz]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

Do you make this shit up as you go along?

 

[ding]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

Do you make this shit up as you go along?

No. It is public record.

 

[Taz]

Religion creates dependance. Waiting for someone to tell you what to think.

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

Do you make this shit up as you go along?

No. It is public record.

Then either provide a link, or stfu.

 

[ding]

America's Founding Fathers believed that it taught the exact opposite and that liberty and freedom could not exist without morality, virtue and religion.

And they are right too. The founding fathers of communism believed that communism is naturalized humanism.

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

Do you make this shit up as you go along?

No. It is public record.

Then either provide a link, or stfu.

Every single communist nation proves it, Taz.

Atheism and communism - Conservapedia

 

[OldLady]

Religion does what no government can do. Teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government.

Religion is part of our culture, and culture is what teaches us right from wrong. I believe we can be "good" without signing on to an established faith system, although major religions all set forth the basics of a functioning, "good" society. Without those guidelines, whether they come from religion or from secular tradition, no society can prosper. There would be chaos and anarchy.
I agree with you that government cannot "teach" morality. But it never has. Government only enforces what society has already declared as right and wrong.

So is it your belief that if we never had religion we would still have the same "guidelines?"

Religion is too much a part of our culture, historically, to ever answer that question. Going forward, it is not necessary imo to rely on religion alone for moral imperatives.

uh huh. It takes two generations to forget. That's been our problem.

Do you know anything about Chinese history?

Cultural tradition is far slower to change than laws or even drastic external changes. What do you suggest we have "forgotten" in two generations?
I know a very little about Chinese history. To what are you referring?

 

[task0778]

Religion does what no government can do. Teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government.

Religion is part of our culture, and culture is what teaches us right from wrong. I believe we can be "good" without signing on to an established faith system, although major religions all set forth the basics of a functioning, "good" society. Without those guidelines, whether they come from religion or from secular tradition, no society can prosper. There would be chaos and anarchy.
I agree with you that government cannot "teach" morality. But it never has. Government only enforces what society has already declared as right and wrong.

So is it your belief that if we never had religion we would still have the same "guidelines?"

Religion is too much a part of our culture, historically, to ever answer that question. Going forward, it is not necessary imo to rely on religion alone for moral imperatives.

Where else are moral imperatives going to come from? Some would say science, but I got my doubts about that.

 

[ding]

Religion does what no government can do. Teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government.

Religion is part of our culture, and culture is what teaches us right from wrong. I believe we can be "good" without signing on to an established faith system, although major religions all set forth the basics of a functioning, "good" society. Without those guidelines, whether they come from religion or from secular tradition, no society can prosper. There would be chaos and anarchy.
I agree with you that government cannot "teach" morality. But it never has. Government only enforces what society has already declared as right and wrong.

So is it your belief that if we never had religion we would still have the same "guidelines?"

Religion is too much a part of our culture, historically, to ever answer that question. Going forward, it is not necessary imo to rely on religion alone for moral imperatives.

uh huh. It takes two generations to forget. That's been our problem.

Do you know anything about Chinese history?

Cultural tradition is far slower to change than laws or even drastic external changes. What do you suggest we have "forgotten" in two generations?
I know a very little about Chinese history. To what are you referring?

Suffering. Values. Morals. You're not familiar with the saeculum cycle. You should read the 4th Turning. You'd like it. Totally secular, so you won't see the parallels I see, so you will be fat dumb and happy about what they say.

 

[ding]

I know a very little about Chinese history. To what are you referring?

The history that shows what relying on culture and government will get you.

 

[Taz]

The FFs were wrong, just look at what a mess the 2nd Amendment caused.

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

Do you make this shit up as you go along?

No. It is public record.

Then either provide a link, or stfu.

Every single communist nation proves it, Taz.

Atheism and communism - Conservapedia

You must be hallucinating.

 

[OldLady]

Religion does what no government can do. Teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government.

Religion is part of our culture, and culture is what teaches us right from wrong. I believe we can be "good" without signing on to an established faith system, although major religions all set forth the basics of a functioning, "good" society. Without those guidelines, whether they come from religion or from secular tradition, no society can prosper. There would be chaos and anarchy.
I agree with you that government cannot "teach" morality. But it never has. Government only enforces what society has already declared as right and wrong.

So is it your belief that if we never had religion we would still have the same "guidelines?"

Religion is too much a part of our culture, historically, to ever answer that question. Going forward, it is not necessary imo to rely on religion alone for moral imperatives.

Where else are moral imperatives going to come from? Some would say science, but I got my doubts about that.

Morals are what is right and wrong, correct?
Ding believes the only ideas of what is "right" or "wrong" come from our religion.
I think the culture actually informs the religion about what is right and wrong and the religion communicates it to the people in an official fiat. Was there anything in the Ten Commandments that was a real jaw dropper, you think? It codified what was already the common practice. So the two are completely, inextricably interwoven in our history.

 

[OldLady]

Religion is part of our culture, and culture is what teaches us right from wrong. I believe we can be "good" without signing on to an established faith system, although major religions all set forth the basics of a functioning, "good" society. Without those guidelines, whether they come from religion or from secular tradition, no society can prosper. There would be chaos and anarchy.
I agree with you that government cannot "teach" morality. But it never has. Government only enforces what society has already declared as right and wrong.

So is it your belief that if we never had religion we would still have the same "guidelines?"

Religion is too much a part of our culture, historically, to ever answer that question. Going forward, it is not necessary imo to rely on religion alone for moral imperatives.

uh huh. It takes two generations to forget. That's been our problem.

Do you know anything about Chinese history?

Cultural tradition is far slower to change than laws or even drastic external changes. What do you suggest we have "forgotten" in two generations?
I know a very little about Chinese history. To what are you referring?

Suffering. Values. Morals. You're not familiar with the saeculum cycle. You should read the 4th Turning. You'd like it. Totally secular, so you won't see the parallels I see, so you will be fat dumb and happy about what they say.

If you would be a little more specific--what values have we forgotten? Specifically, what morals have we let go of that bother you?

 

[OldLady]

I know a very little about Chinese history. To what are you referring?

The history that shows what relying on culture and government will get you.

Pretty fuzzy response, there, Ding. Be specific.

 

[ding]

Ding believes the only ideas of what is "right" or "wrong" come from our religion.

That would be wrong. You'll need to start over as the foundation for your belief is wrong.

 

[ding]

I know a very little about Chinese history. To what are you referring?

The history that shows what relying on culture and government will get you.

Pretty fuzzy response, there, Ding. Be specific.

Just setting the table.

Do you know anything about Confucius? And what his observations were?

 

[ding]

That communism is naturalized humanism?

No. History pretty much proves that.

That religion, morality and virtue are needed for liberty and freedom?

No. History proves that too.

Do you make this shit up as you go along?

No. It is public record.

Then either provide a link, or stfu.

Every single communist nation proves it, Taz.

Atheism and communism - Conservapedia

You must be hallucinating.

Not at all. Each and everyone of them was led by someone like you.