Is Putin’s best policy to simply wait?Indeed?

Baron

Platinum Member
Sep 19, 2008
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Is it indeed a good policy as the author claims?
Putin has waited too much, twenty years too long, NATO's nukes are direct at Russian border ( transport by F-35) and threats WWIII
The best policy would be if Russia takes Novorossia back, cuts all ties with the West ( including closing of all embassies) and goes East.
Sanctions and WWIII are almost unavoidable unimportant what Russia does.
The West wants to have Russian commodities, not Russian people, so, Russia shall be defeated and its people eliminated.
Hopefully Putin will finally grasp, what to do rightly, otherwise the world will perish in the nuclear Armageddon.
By the way: Russia shall sell all its gas to China, which pays more as Europeans and stop any relation with any organisation of EU because it's simple wasting of time and money only.

Russia has recently set out its list of demands for a resetting of the position of the United States in Europe. The Americans have reacted cautiously, promising to give the Russians an answer “shortly”. It would be unwise to hold one’s breath awaiting a positive response from the Americans. Even in the highly unlikely event they respond positively to the Russian proposals, there must always remain the fundamental question: Can they be trusted?

There is a single characteristic that marks United States foreign policy conduct since the end of the Second World War and it is that any agreement they enter into lasts only as long as they consider desirable or in their interests to do so. The classic illustration of that point, and one that no doubt featured heavily in Putin’s assessment of the situation and the making of Russia’s demands, has been a steady movement Eastward of the NATO alliance.

It needs to be remembered that at the time of the reunification of Germany, Soviet acquiescence of the deal was bought with a promise by the Americans that NATO would not expand “one inch” to the East. It took very little time for that promise to be broken. NATO’s Eastward expansion to Russia’s borders has been the dominant political military phenomena of the intervening 30 years.

There is no doubt that Putin is deadly serious about Russia’s desire to see an end to this relentless expansion. The expansion has been made with one objective uppermost in mind, and that has been the United States desire to “confront” Russia. The purpose of this confrontation is blindingly obvious. It is to provoke Russia into doing something that will lead to an immediate expansion of the level of sanctions imposed upon it. Further sanctions are clearly the objective and the Americans and their allies will stop at nothing to provoke a Russian reaction that can be used as a justification of the long-desired increase in sanctions.

For reasons that I will come to, an increase in sanctions are unlucky to trouble the Russians very much. A more immediate problem for them will be the appropriate reaction to NATO’s expansion to include Ukraine. There is little doubt that such an expansion is part of the American plan. It has been ever since the United States inspired coup in 2014 that over- threw the legitimate Ukrainian government and replaced it with what can only be described as a Neo Nazi horror show.

On an economic level, the coup has been disastrous. The Ukrainian economy has been receding ever since, with a steady loss of population equalling the economic downturn. There is no reasonable prospect of the Ukrainian economy improving in the foreseeable future. The decline in the economy has been matched by a political decline. The current leader Volodymyr Zelensky has been engaged in a war of attrition with his political rivals.

The Kiev government has also refused to implement the terms of the Minsk accord that they signed in 2015. That agreement was designed to end the political deadlock caused by the effect of removal of the two Donbass republics from Ukraine following the United States inspired coup. Not only has Ukraine failed to meet its obligations under the Minsk accord, it has in effect waged war on the two breakaway regions, killing thousands of people, including women and children.

Part of the major reason for Ukrainian recalcitrance has been the tacit support of Germany and France who have consistently failed to insist that Ukraine comply with the terms of the Minsk accord. Since the recent German election, the attitude of the Germans has deteriorated in respect of Russia. The new German foreign minister Annalena Baerbock is a blatantly pro United States Green. She has spent her brief time in office thus far in going out of her way to present an anti-Russia line. Given the variety of problems currently facing Germany including a grave shortage of energy to keep their population warm in the coming winter, her attitude is, frankly, remarkably stupid.

The new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has made some recent comments designed to ease the tension, but he really needs to give his foreign minister a sharp reminder of the nature of geopolitical reality. German industry takes a more realistic line and is dismayed at the deterioration in German – Russian relations since the election. It will be interesting to see how much longer Baerbock can survive in the face of the twin pressures from a dismayed business elite and a population growing colder by the day.

Putin has remained remarkably quiet about the obvious stalling by the European Union over approving the pipeline. He could usefully point out that the pipeline was a major project of now retired German Chancellor Angela Merkel who resisted enormous United States pressure to cancel the project. It is extremely disappointing to see the German government apparently capitulating to the Americans and go cold over approving the pipeline coming into action. That has apparently been the case since September.

One reason for Putin not making a major fuss over the German apparent capitulation to United States pressure is that he has alternative markets for the energy. That market is to the east, where China is willing to take as much of the Russian supplies as they are able to provide. Russia has recently announced that massive supplies of natural gas will be provided through a new pipeline laid through Mongolia, which will enhance substantially Mongolia’s royalties.

The availability of the giant Chinese market greatly reduces the economic pressure upon Putin, as indeed it would in the event of further western sanctions. The political support of China is also a major factor in Putin’s response to any further United States pressure on Ukraine.

There is little doubt that at least some members of the United States establishment would like to integrate Ukraine into NATO. That this has not yet happened is due to two major reasons. The first is that, as already noted, Ukraine is an economic basket case and will provide no useful economic benefit for the European Union, and will probably be an enormous drain on the European Union.

The second reason is that despite United States bluster about further sanctions on Russia should Russia choose to intervene directly in Ukraine, the reality is that United States sanctions have a limited effect, and that effect gets less by the day as Russia developed a range of non-western defence mechanisms, including an alternative to SWIFT developed with China, and its growing trade with nations to the East who are less enthralled to the United States line than the Europeans.

United States behaviour is highly unlikely to change, with their weapons sales to Ukraine being but one example of their reluctance to engage in real reform in the region. It may be that Putin’s best policy with Ukraine is to simply wait. The country is facing enormous social and economic problems. It may only be a matter of time before the population rises up against the present grossly incompetent and illegitimate government. Putin’s best policy may simply be therefore, one of patience.

 
Depends on what kind of nation Putin wants Russia to be

Is expanding your borders worth isolating yourself from the international community?

We have a global economy right now. China has prospered by exploiting the global economy. Meanwhile, Russia has declined in economic influence
 
Depends on what kind of nation Putin wants Russia to be
Is expanding your borders worth isolating yourself from the international community?
We have a global economy right now. China has prospered by exploiting the global economy. Meanwhile, Russia has declined in economic influence

Only Russian people decides, not Putin & Co.
More as 90% of Russians want neither to became a 'democracy' nor to be in any relationship with the West.
 
Only Russian people decides, not Putin & Co.
More as 90% of Russians want neither to became a 'democracy' nor to be in any relationship with the West.

In the 20 years since Putin took over your nation, China has prospered and become a dominant economy in the world.

Russia is stagnant.

Difference is China has embraced their trade with the Western World while Russia remains isolated
 
My bet is the Russians are waiting for the 2024 elections. The Russians played a big part in getting Trump elected and they will do whatever they can to get Trump back in office. Trump in infatuated with Putin and will not interfere in Putin’s expansionist ideas.
 
The U.S. has been led by the nose by Western European Conservatives since WWII.

They have been trying to conquer Russia since the beginning of time.

Ukraine has been Russian since the beginning of time - most non-Russian Ukrainian are descended from people who immigrated to Ukraine during the time of Katherine the Great.

The 2015 revolt that installed the current Ukrainian government was nothing but an armed mob overthrowing a freely elected (if corrupt) government - primarily to stop the Ukraine from forming an economic alliance with Russia.

The current confrontation was started by the Ukrainian army indiscriminately bombing civilian area in the break away regions of Eastern Ukraine. That forced Putin to build up a massive Russian invasion force on the Ukrainian border.
 
Only Russian people decides, not Putin & Co.
More as 90% of Russians want neither to became a 'democracy' nor to be in any relationship with the West.

The people I get info from in Russia, who are average working Russians, would very much like to have friendly relationships with the West, and believe that the do have a Democracy.

Putin is overwhelmingly popular in Russia. After Yeltsin destroyed Russia, Putin rebuilt it.
 
Putin is overwhelmingly popular in Russia. After Yeltsin destroyed Russia, Putin rebuilt it.
I can’t see why

The Russian economy is limited in scope and mostly stagnant.
Look at the growth China has seen since 1990 compared to Russia.

Putin has retrenched and isolated Russia
 
Is it indeed a good policy as the author claims?
Putin has waited too much, twenty years too long, NATO's nukes are direct at Russian border ( transport by F-35) and threats WWIII
The best policy would be if Russia takes Novorossia back, cuts all ties with the West ( including closing of all embassies) and goes East.
Sanctions and WWIII are almost unavoidable unimportant what Russia does.
The West wants to have Russian commodities, not Russian people, so, Russia shall be defeated and its people eliminated.
Hopefully Putin will finally grasp, what to do rightly, otherwise the world will perish in the nuclear Armageddon.
By the way: Russia shall sell all its gas to China, which pays more as Europeans and stop any relation with any organisation of EU because it's simple wasting of time and money only.

Russia has recently set out its list of demands for a resetting of the position of the United States in Europe. The Americans have reacted cautiously, promising to give the Russians an answer “shortly”. It would be unwise to hold one’s breath awaiting a positive response from the Americans. Even in the highly unlikely event they respond positively to the Russian proposals, there must always remain the fundamental question: Can they be trusted?

There is a single characteristic that marks United States foreign policy conduct since the end of the Second World War and it is that any agreement they enter into lasts only as long as they consider desirable or in their interests to do so. The classic illustration of that point, and one that no doubt featured heavily in Putin’s assessment of the situation and the making of Russia’s demands, has been a steady movement Eastward of the NATO alliance.

It needs to be remembered that at the time of the reunification of Germany, Soviet acquiescence of the deal was bought with a promise by the Americans that NATO would not expand “one inch” to the East. It took very little time for that promise to be broken. NATO’s Eastward expansion to Russia’s borders has been the dominant political military phenomena of the intervening 30 years.

There is no doubt that Putin is deadly serious about Russia’s desire to see an end to this relentless expansion. The expansion has been made with one objective uppermost in mind, and that has been the United States desire to “confront” Russia. The purpose of this confrontation is blindingly obvious. It is to provoke Russia into doing something that will lead to an immediate expansion of the level of sanctions imposed upon it. Further sanctions are clearly the objective and the Americans and their allies will stop at nothing to provoke a Russian reaction that can be used as a justification of the long-desired increase in sanctions.

For reasons that I will come to, an increase in sanctions are unlucky to trouble the Russians very much. A more immediate problem for them will be the appropriate reaction to NATO’s expansion to include Ukraine. There is little doubt that such an expansion is part of the American plan. It has been ever since the United States inspired coup in 2014 that over- threw the legitimate Ukrainian government and replaced it with what can only be described as a Neo Nazi horror show.

On an economic level, the coup has been disastrous. The Ukrainian economy has been receding ever since, with a steady loss of population equalling the economic downturn. There is no reasonable prospect of the Ukrainian economy improving in the foreseeable future. The decline in the economy has been matched by a political decline. The current leader Volodymyr Zelensky has been engaged in a war of attrition with his political rivals.

The Kiev government has also refused to implement the terms of the Minsk accord that they signed in 2015. That agreement was designed to end the political deadlock caused by the effect of removal of the two Donbass republics from Ukraine following the United States inspired coup. Not only has Ukraine failed to meet its obligations under the Minsk accord, it has in effect waged war on the two breakaway regions, killing thousands of people, including women and children.

Part of the major reason for Ukrainian recalcitrance has been the tacit support of Germany and France who have consistently failed to insist that Ukraine comply with the terms of the Minsk accord. Since the recent German election, the attitude of the Germans has deteriorated in respect of Russia. The new German foreign minister Annalena Baerbock is a blatantly pro United States Green. She has spent her brief time in office thus far in going out of her way to present an anti-Russia line. Given the variety of problems currently facing Germany including a grave shortage of energy to keep their population warm in the coming winter, her attitude is, frankly, remarkably stupid.

The new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has made some recent comments designed to ease the tension, but he really needs to give his foreign minister a sharp reminder of the nature of geopolitical reality. German industry takes a more realistic line and is dismayed at the deterioration in German – Russian relations since the election. It will be interesting to see how much longer Baerbock can survive in the face of the twin pressures from a dismayed business elite and a population growing colder by the day.

Putin has remained remarkably quiet about the obvious stalling by the European Union over approving the pipeline. He could usefully point out that the pipeline was a major project of now retired German Chancellor Angela Merkel who resisted enormous United States pressure to cancel the project. It is extremely disappointing to see the German government apparently capitulating to the Americans and go cold over approving the pipeline coming into action. That has apparently been the case since September.

One reason for Putin not making a major fuss over the German apparent capitulation to United States pressure is that he has alternative markets for the energy. That market is to the east, where China is willing to take as much of the Russian supplies as they are able to provide. Russia has recently announced that massive supplies of natural gas will be provided through a new pipeline laid through Mongolia, which will enhance substantially Mongolia’s royalties.

The availability of the giant Chinese market greatly reduces the economic pressure upon Putin, as indeed it would in the event of further western sanctions. The political support of China is also a major factor in Putin’s response to any further United States pressure on Ukraine.

There is little doubt that at least some members of the United States establishment would like to integrate Ukraine into NATO. That this has not yet happened is due to two major reasons. The first is that, as already noted, Ukraine is an economic basket case and will provide no useful economic benefit for the European Union, and will probably be an enormous drain on the European Union.

The second reason is that despite United States bluster about further sanctions on Russia should Russia choose to intervene directly in Ukraine, the reality is that United States sanctions have a limited effect, and that effect gets less by the day as Russia developed a range of non-western defence mechanisms, including an alternative to SWIFT developed with China, and its growing trade with nations to the East who are less enthralled to the United States line than the Europeans.

United States behaviour is highly unlikely to change, with their weapons sales to Ukraine being but one example of their reluctance to engage in real reform in the region. It may be that Putin’s best policy with Ukraine is to simply wait. The country is facing enormous social and economic problems. It may only be a matter of time before the population rises up against the present grossly incompetent and illegitimate government. Putin’s best policy may simply be therefore, one of patience.

All the BS aside, a possible scenario could be that Putin waits till after Beijing's Olympics and then simultaneously China attacks Taiwan and Russia Ukraine, thus taking advantage of a very weak US president and western Europe.

Again, just a possibility.
 
I can’t see why

The Russian economy is limited in scope and mostly stagnant.
Look at the growth China has seen since 1990 compared to Russia.

Putin has retrenched and isolated Russia
Not too many Russians are running between China and Russia to do a comparative analysis.

What Russians do know is that life is 1000% better under Putin than it was under Yeltsin.

Russians are used to being isolated from the west - the Soviet Union was isolated for 70+ years. It means nothing to them.

The fact is that Russia has massive natural resources and can easily go on forever in isolation from the west. What they don't have, they can buy from China.

The only people who are affected by sanctions are the tiny, tiny number of super-wealthy Russians who engage in international business. Most Russians couldn't care less about them - they're mostly gangsters - and they're scared shitless of Putin.
 
Putin doesn't meed a shooting war. His present course is driving wedges between "the Western powers". Europe understands it'll freeze in the dark without Russian gas exports. Germany is moving closer to Russia and further from outdated "alliances" (translation, America is tired of paying the bills).

Why put any effort into a battle when the gullible west is so busy fucking itself up.
 
Biden: In case of an Russia's attack to Ukraine, "Nord Stream 2" will not be launched.

Wow, what a threat! And most importantly, the price of the whole of Ukraine is clearly indicated: the supply of American liquefied gas to Europe.
Hello, Bandera people, who adore the USA!
 
Putin doesn't meed a shooting war. His present course is driving wedges between "the Western powers". Europe understands it'll freeze in the dark without Russian gas exports. Germany is moving closer to Russia and further from outdated "alliances" (translation, America is tired of paying the bills).

Why put any effort into a battle when the gullible west is so busy fucking itself up.
Maybe that was Putin’s plan

But the Western powers seem very United.
 
But the Western powers seem very United.
One barbarian leader told the romans, who threatened him that the entire population of Rome would rise up to fight him: "The thicker the grass, the easier it is to mow it."
Don't fill your heads with the stupid and dangerous idea of war with Russia, please.
 
One barbarian leader told the romans, who threatened him that the entire population of Rome would rise up to fight him: "The thicker the grass, the easier it is to mow it."
Don't fill your heads with the stupid and dangerous idea of war with Russia, please.

I don’t think we will go to war with Russia if they invade

I think we will invoke crippling sanctions that will turn Russia into N Korea
 
I don’t think we will go to war with Russia if they invade
I think we will invoke crippling sanctions that will turn Russia into N Korea
Wake up! North Korea now looks better then some parts of US... And they know a LOT about sanctions.
 
Wake up! North Korea now looks better then some parts of US... And they know a LOT about sanctions.
Sure it does Skippy

Most of the country doesn’t have running water and electricity
 
Putin rebuilt it.
Screen shot 2017-04-02 at 3.14.03 PM.png
 

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