Is obama a socilist, or a fascist?

[editec]

Is obama a socilist, or a fascist?

Does it really matter?

Either way the people get fucked.

Socialism is elitst authoritarianism under the guise of government.

Fascism is elitst authoritarianism under the guise of corporations running government.

The end game in both cases is elitst authoritarianism.

 

[kaz]

Fascism is elitst authoritarianism under the guise of corporations running government

Yes, clearly Hitler shook in his boots when his secretary told him an industrialist was in his waiting room demanding to see him.

Socialism and fascism are both centrally planned economies. Only government can centrally plan an economy. The only difference is that fascism is when companies are technically in private hands but they must operate to serve government's economic agenda and their decisions must be approved by government. What Obama is doing now. Socialism is just when you take it a step further and government actually owns the means of production directly. Where Obama wants to go. Fascism is a step removed from socialism.

In the 30s, fascists were racists and murdered people and other bad things like that. It is true fascists did that, but it wasn't fascism when they were doing it, fascism is an economic system. Yet the connection is made in people's minds.

When liberals like the way words sound just redefine words on the fly, like you did, Ed. Fascism is a centrally planned economy where government controls the means of production. But that's not good, you don't want that, so you turn it around. No, fascism is when companies control government. And then you get the hate and racism implications along with it. Now your enemies are "fascists." Even though they are not, your leaders are. Though only as a step on their way to socialism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Got it backwards, kaz. Obama is doing what the corporations tell him to do: look at ACA for an example.

Not a great situation either way.

Our lives would be far worse under the guise of libertarianism, the guise of a society of equals, in which the reality is that the masses are dominated by elitists.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama is a Neo-Marxist.

He uses Marxist code words: Redistribute, 1%, the rich, fair share, Progress, Forward, etc. (we made a list which I can repost) but he only occasionally steps out of his Marxist closets and embraces his Inner Mao in broad daylight.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's opinion with some examples. Give definitions, political narrative, and objective sources, Frank.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Neo-Marxism is not unique to Obama either, it's the whole Democrat Party. You cannot tell the difference between the Democrat Party page and the Communist Party USA page, they say the exact same things.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Kaz and NeoTroll in their chicken suits kluck kluck klux kluxing again.

No sane person worries what is going on in the heads of those truly weird reactionaries beyond the far right and the worse sorts of libertarians. They are broken in their heads. Nothing will change.

Just mock them when they come out in the open.

Still sitting there in a puddle of piss?

You're pathetic, Jakematters.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Does it really matter?

Either way the people get fucked.

Socialism is elitst authoritarianism under the guise of government.

Fascism is elitst authoritarianism under the guise of corporations running government.

The end game in both cases is elitst authoritarianism.



[/B]

Understanding the foundational principles of a person can help one gauge how that person will act in various circumstances.

D'Souza illustrating that Obama is driven by anti-Colonial leftism offers a road map to the decisions Obama has and continues to make.

So yes, it is very important.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That's opinion with some examples. Give definitions, political narrative, and objective sources, Frank.

That's not an opinion, that's what Obama has said Dear.

You should pay closer attention to current events starting with his "Spread the wealth" comment to Joe the Plumber By know it's common knowledge and does not need to be sourced because you were reading "Audacity of Hope" at the time

 

[kaz]

Got it backwards, kaz. Obama is doing what the corporations tell him to do: look at ACA for an example.

Not a great situation either way.

Our lives would be far worse under the guise of libertarianism, the guise of a society of equals, in which the reality is that the masses are dominated by elitists.

Since you endlessly make claims then run and hide when asked to back them up, I'll pass on addressing this nonsense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Another one runs and hides because they will not (1) define socialism and marxism and (2) tell us how Obama is either.

Your opinions mean nothing until you support them with evidence and documentation from reputable sources.

Got it backwards, kaz. Obama is doing what the corporations tell him to do: look at ACA for an example.

Not a great situation either way.

Our lives would be far worse under the guise of libertarianism, the guise of a society of equals, in which the reality is that the masses are dominated by elitists.

Since you endlessly make claims then run and hide when asked to back them up, I'll pass on addressing this nonsense.

 

[kaz]

Another one runs and hides because they will not (1) define socialism and marxism and (2) tell us how Obama is either.

Actually I've REPEATEDLY stated my standard, the planks of the Communist Manifesto.

 

[Foxfyre]

Obama is a Neo-Marxist.

He uses Marxist code words: Redistribute, 1%, the rich, fair share, Progress, Forward, etc. (we made a list which I can repost) but he only occasionally steps out of his Marxist closets and embraces his Inner Mao in broad daylight.

Mao is an excellent example of Marxism right up to the point that resistance has been eliminated and the government controlled everything. And then Marx's vision was that the government would equally distribute the wealth among all the people, the government would dissolve itself, and the people would live happily ever after with no need for government.

As history has thus far demonstrated, however, in no nation that has embraced Marxist principles, once the government has total control, it never moves into the final phase where the people are all equal and live happily ever after. Once the government has all the power and control, it keeps it. Fascism is just one of the phases that it passes through to get to dictatorship/totalitarianism and total control.

And the critical part in every case is that the people are persuaded to look to the government as the solution to their problems, their savior, their protector, and their benefactor so that they support the process and do not resist or interfere.

How did Mao do it?
- He encouraged popular participation
- The government controlled all means of production
- The government controlled all means of communication
- He promised to wrest the wealth from the wealthy and improve the lot of everybody and therefore encouraged adoration of himself and eliminated popular resistance to increasing government control.
- He systematically discouraged and by various means took control of and then systematically ordered the destruction of the national religious institutions, cultural symbols, relics, and culture and change the psyche of the nation to one mind appreciative, submissive, and defensive of the government authority.
- Private/parochial education was discouraged or forbidden and the schools were utilized as indocrination centers where children were steered away from celebration of their old culture and taught appreciation for and dedication to the State.

And on the surface he did provide more healthcare to at least those in the cities, improved the status of women at least to those in thecities, improved literacy at least to those in the cities, ushered iin an industrial revolution, and some. who refuse to acknowledge the downside, laud him to this day. He remains one of the most influential figures of the 20th Century.

The downside, of course was the ultimate death, torture, executiion, and murder by some estimates of as many as 70 million people who openly or had the potential to oppose him. That included any opposition from business owners and property owners. The feudal landlords were routinely killed, their land seized, and divided up into communes. Rather than equalization of the haves and have nots, there was widespread famine among the have nots, and those in government or favored by the government prospered mightily while poverty among the have nots increased.

The phrase "We all belong to the government" from the DNC Convention has been taken somewhat out of context and is being used slightly dishonestly by the GOP by not putting it into its full context, but nevertheless, it is a phrase no freedom loving person would ever use. It is the kind of phrase that is used to lull the people into allowing government to take more and more power until one day we wake up, and the govenrment can do anything it wants with impunity. That is how Marxism is accomplished.

 

[JakeStarkey]

blah blah blah

Show me how and where Obama (or Bush, for that matter) is a neo-Marxist.

Evidence, stats, analsysis, and cited to objective documentation.

None of you do that.

 

[grunt11b]

.

Here we go...

And in your answer, please include how the 39.6% top marginal tax rate he wants would constitute "socialism" or "fascism". Thanks.

.

Taking what one person has earned to give to another person is indeed socialist. Obamacare is socialist, you dont have to like it, but that my friend is a fact.
Taking over industry or means of production is a part of communism, you dont have to like that one either, but when Obama decided to take over GM, that was communism.
Fascism Goes along with the taking over of GM as well, because that could be considered public ownership of property.
Even if those of you supporters on the left choose not to see it, Obama is a threat to everything this country has ever stood for that is good in this world. And you are nothing more to him than pawns in his little game. He doesn't care about you, only your votes.
I believe Obama is a mixed bag of every ideology that has ever destroyed good countries, he is a little bit of everything bad ideologically, which explains why we know so little about his background, because if you had a background like that, it would be worth millions to keep it a secret.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Mao is an excellent example of Marxism right up to the point that resistance has been eliminated and the government controlled everything. And then Marx's vision was that the government would equally distribute the wealth among all the people, the government would dissolve itself, and the people would live happily ever after with no need for government.

As history has thus far demonstrated, however, in no nation that has embraced Marxist principles, once the government has total control, it never moves into the final phase where the people are all equal and live happily ever after.

I respectfully disagree.

Lenin gave true Marxism a valid run through. In the winter of 22-23, Lenin segregated Petrograd and outlawed all currency. Housing, food, and work assignments were determined by the Soviets, the peoples congresses, which were elected on a block by block basis with the NKVD at their disposal to shoot dissenters. The problem was that these wonderful proletarians often decided that bourgeois families should work 24 hour days and had no need of food or shelter from the sub-arctic St. Petersburg winter.

It was of course, and utter disaster, after which Lenin instituted the NEP. I honestly believe that Lenin would have again tried real Marxism, had he lived longer.

 

[Foxfyre]

.

Here we go...

And in your answer, please include how the 39.6% top marginal tax rate he wants would constitute "socialism" or "fascism". Thanks.

.

Taking what one person has earned to give to another person is indeed socialist. Obamacare is socialist, you dont have to like it, but that my friend is a fact.
Taking over industry or means of production is a part of communism, you dont have to like that one either, but when Obama decided to take over GM, that was communism.
Fascism Goes along with the taking over of GM as well, because that could be considered public ownership of property.
Even if those of you supporters on the left choose not to see it, Obama is a threat to everything this country has ever stood for that is good in this world. And you are nothing more to him than pawns in his little game. He doesn't care about you, only your votes.
I believe Obama is a mixed bag of every ideology that has ever destroyed good countries, he is a little bit of everything bad ideologically, which explains why we know so little about his background, because if you had a background like that, it would be worth millions to keep it a secret.

It was easier for nations like Russia and China to implement the worst of Marxism as those nations had never ever recognied the unalienable rights of the people and had always had authoritarian government. It has been more difficult and a slower process in the U.S.A., as the remnants of freedom as the Founders defined freedom, and the basic human yearning for self governance remains strong in our culture. So the process of breaking that down and installing acceptance of more government control has been somewhat slower.

I think most of our national leaders who have pushed for greater government control have done so out of their own craving for more personal power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. Their ability to use the government to do that has been destructive enough.

But lately you see something even more insidious creeping in. The use of political correctness to destroy values and culture has been under the radar but insidious and effective. You now see an Obama who is infusing government into large corporations--the auto industry, financial institutions, etc.--with hardly a murmur of protest from the people. You have school children singing praises to Obama--that should send cold chills down the backs of freedom loving people. It is slow creep, but in the hands of one who has been schooled and groomed in Marxist liberation theology, it is not only not resisted, but encouraged.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your belief is not fact at all, grunt11b.

Grunt11b would argue then, just as wrong as below, that when the 1st National Bank (1791) was organized with 5 of 25 directors on the board from the government and 20% of capitalization, that was communist.

Grunt11b is seriously brain damaged.

.

Here we go...

And in your answer, please include how the 39.6% top marginal tax rate he wants would constitute "socialism" or "fascism". Thanks.

.

Taking what one person has earned to give to another person is indeed socialist. Obamacare is socialist, you dont have to like it, but that my friend is a fact.
Taking over industry or means of production is a part of communism, you dont have to like that one either, but when Obama decided to take over GM, that was communism.
Fascism Goes along with the taking over of GM as well, because that could be considered public ownership of property.
Even if those of you supporters on the left choose not to see it, Obama is a threat to everything this country has ever stood for that is good in this world. And you are nothing more to him than pawns in his little game. He doesn't care about you, only your votes.
I believe Obama is a mixed bag of every ideology that has ever destroyed good countries, he is a little bit of everything bad ideologically, which explains why we know so little about his background, because if you had a background like that, it would be worth millions to keep it a secret.

 

[grunt11b]

Your belief is not fact at all, grunt11b.

Grunt11b would argue then, just as wrong as below, that when the 1st National Bank (1791) was organized with 5 of 25 directors on the board from the government and 20% of capitalization, that was communist.

Grunt11b is seriously brain damaged.

.

Here we go...

And in your answer, please include how the 39.6% top marginal tax rate he wants would constitute "socialism" or "fascism". Thanks.

.

Taking what one person has earned to give to another person is indeed socialist. Obamacare is socialist, you dont have to like it, but that my friend is a fact.
Taking over industry or means of production is a part of communism, you dont have to like that one either, but when Obama decided to take over GM, that was communism.
Fascism Goes along with the taking over of GM as well, because that could be considered public ownership of property.
Even if those of you supporters on the left choose not to see it, Obama is a threat to everything this country has ever stood for that is good in this world. And you are nothing more to him than pawns in his little game. He doesn't care about you, only your votes.
I believe Obama is a mixed bag of every ideology that has ever destroyed good countries, he is a little bit of everything bad ideologically, which explains why we know so little about his background, because if you had a background like that, it would be worth millions to keep it a secret.

Was that a federal Bank or a private bank? There's a big difference here, although I dont expect you to notice it.

 

[grunt11b]

You see, if the bank began as a federal entity then it doesn't matter how much the federal government toiled in it. GM was a private company, which the federal government has no business meddling in. Big difference.