Debate Now Is Liberalism Exhausted?

Foxfyre

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Okay I'll wade in and offer the first post in the new Structured Debate zone.

In his column today Jonah Goldberg proposes a thesis that liberalism as it is defined and practiced in modern day America has worn itself out. It's proponents in the media have lost their luster and are no longer able to gain much if any traction in popular appeal. The 2014 election suggested people are looking for something different. President Obama has been able to move his party far to the left, but has been unable to attract recruits to join them.

The article: Is Liberalism Exhausted RealClearPolitics

Rules for this debate:
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1. No ad hominem. Address the member's post and make no comment on the character or motive or intent of the member himself or herself.

2. No mention of Republicans or Democrats or any other political party. Keep the focus on liberalism and whether it has or has not run its course in America.

3. Please keep criticism of specific media, political, or other personalities to a minimum.


THE QUESTION TO BE ANSWERED:

Is liberalism exhausted, i.e. has it run its course in America and will fade into the background in coming years?
 

80zephyr

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Liberals have been winning...forever. And since they have been, each "hot button" issue has become more and more obscure.

They remind me of unions. Unions fought for workers rights, safety on the job, etc. What do the unions fight for today? Superfluous items that for the most part make no difference to most of the membership.

I think the liberals may have reached that point.

Mark
 
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Foxfyre

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Liberals have been winning...forever. And since they have been, each "hot button" issue has become more and more obscure.

They remind me of unions. Unions fought for workers rights, safety on the job, etc. What do the unions fight for today? Superfluous items that for the most part make no difference to most of the membership.

I think the liberals may have reached that point.

Mark
Hi Mark. That was pretty much Goldberg's point I think. From the article:

". . .Meanwhile, the cultural left has disengaged from mainstream political arguments, preferring instead the comforts of identity-politics argy-bargy. You judge political movements not by their manifestos but by where they put their passion. And on the left these days, the only things that arouse passion are arguments about race and gender. . . ."​

And 'gender' of course includes the whole gay scene.
 

B. Kidd

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
 

Mac1958

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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
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No, not at all.

I think we've passed the tipping point, and we're on our way towards what the Left wants, some version of a Euro-social democracy.

What I don't (can't) know is whether it will end up looking more like Germany, France or Greece.

The de facto collapse of our southern border will ultimately be the last straw, as the Left will able to flood the electorate with those who are much more inclined to support such a system, a far more powerful, centralized federal government presiding over a populace heavily divided into the various identity groups.

That's been the goal all along.

It is what it is.

.
 
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Blackrook

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Liberalism will never be exhausted because each of them is like the electric bunny on the TV commercial who never stops moving. Conservatives have businesses, jobs, family, church, charity and other commitments that prevent them from putting in that kind of work towards conservativism. Your typical liberal is far more dedicated towards liberalism, and more willing to put other things on the back burner.

Communists are even more dedicated, and they work within the liberal movement to get their own agenda items accomplished. Liberals don't care that they are infiltrated by Communists, because the don't see Communists as an enemy.
 

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
I think this will become a harder sell, especially if the victimization psychology starts to break down.
 

mamooth

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Of course liberalism isn't exhausted. The runaway victory of liberal ideas in nearly every field demonstrates that.

Goldberg's rant was hilariously pathetic. It was a mess of disjointed crying, reminiscent of the Unibomber's manifesto. That's one of the intellectual champions of the right, the guy whining about Obama the Marxist dictator and Al Sharpton the eeeeeevil feminists? Way to pack together the nutty strawmen. Kook bloggers usually put together more sensible rants than that.

Clearly, someone is intellectually exhausted. It's just not the liberals.

By the way, if you ever want to know what Goldberg believes himself, simply look at what he accuses liberals of. Goldberg has long been a champion of victimhood politics and identity politics and political correctness, so of course he accuses everyone else of such things. He thinks that way, so he simply can't imagine that anyone else doesn't think that way.
 

B. Kidd

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
I think this will become a harder sell, especially if the victimization psychology starts to break down.
I hope you are right, but identity politics is extremely powerful and firmly entrenched.
 
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Foxfyre

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
.

No, not at all.

I think we've passed the tipping point, and we're on our way towards what the Left wants, some version of a Euro-social democracy.

What I don't (can't) know is whether it will end up looking more like Germany, France or Greece.

The de facto collapse of our southern border will ultimately be the last straw, as the Left will able to flood the electorate with those who are much more inclined to support such a system, a far more powerful, centralized federal government presiding over a populace heavily divided into the various identity groups.

That's been the goal all along.

It is what it is.

.
LOL. You guys aren't giving me a great deal of hope here. I read an article like Goldberg's today and think maybe there is hope. Maybe the American people are less sheeplike than I've given them credit for. Maybe they are able to figure out some things for themselves and the worm really is turning.

He is right that leftwing (aka liberal) media has a really dismal track record. Despite massive funding, Air America couldn't make it. MSNBC has a tiny fraction of the audience of Fox News who continues to out pull all the other cable news networks combined in ratings. NPR and PBS are less partisan than most others, but they are accused of being at least somewhat left of center. I have been reading where they are struggling financially, though I'm not sure that is due to loss of audience. Both are completely funded of course and don't have to make it on popularity. But why is their funding falling behind?

And it seems that fewer people are willing to identify themselves as 'liberal'.

So in all due respect, while I fear you might be right, I hope you are wrong. :)
 
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Foxfyre

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There are liberal republicans...being a liberal does not mean you are attached to one party....
Please read the thread rules Moonglow. Not objecting to your post here--just to violation of the rules. :)
 
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Foxfyre

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Liberalism will never be exhausted because each of them is like the electric bunny on the TV commercial who never stops moving. Conservatives have businesses, jobs, family, church, charity and other commitments that prevent them from putting in that kind of work towards conservativism. Your typical liberal is far more dedicated towards liberalism, and more willing to put other things on the back burner.

Communists are even more dedicated, and they work within the liberal movement to get their own agenda items accomplished. Liberals don't care that they are infiltrated by Communists, because the don't see Communists as an enemy.
I think the point that Goldberg is making, however, is that the diehard liberals aren't gaining converts and their views are losing traction in appeal. With no new converts, any movement becomes less and less relevent.
 

koshergrl

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
I think this will become a harder sell, especially if the victimization psychology starts to break down.
It doesn't matter if it's sold at this point or not. The progressives are holding the reins, they won't give them up.
 

Dogmaphobe

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The word I would use is "supplanted".

Liberalism has been supplanted by identity politics/multiculturalism as the governing ideology of the left.
 

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I disagree. Liberalism, particularly populist Liberalism remains a potent political force. Many folks are disillusioned after the civil war within the GOP. Radical Conservatism is not everyone's cup of tea.

Issues like wage disparity, civil rights, America's place on the international stage and out propensity to wage war first, ask questions later are turning folks away from the hard core stances offered from the political opposition to Liberalism.

Folks are starting to understand that the policies offered from the Conservatives are actually against their self interests. That's why a Tea Party type cannot and will not win the nomination from the GOP in 2016.

Political trends come and go. But once the hard working American family realizes that their rights to collective bargaining and the programs that favor the wealthy in some magical attempt to have wealth 'trickle down' upon them are mere pipedreams in a rigged game, watch the public scorn radical Conservatism.
 
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Foxfyre

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
I think this will become a harder sell, especially if the victimization psychology starts to break down.
Just spitballing here, but don't you think that even those made most dependent on the charity of 'liberal' programs are beginning to see that what they get isn't all that great? That those the 'liberals' most presume to be advocates are beginning to realize that nothing is really doing anything constructive for them and they aren't any better off? There might be a better way?
 
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Foxfyre

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The word I would use is "supplanted".

Liberalism has been supplanted by identity politics/multiculturalism as the governing ideology of the left.
Of course you are right, but for the purposes of this thread, let's go with the definition of 'liberalism' and, as necessary 'conservatism' as it is most usually understood and defined in modern day America.
 
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Foxfyre

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
I think this will become a harder sell, especially if the victimization psychology starts to break down.
I so hope you are right. I was one of the fatalists who was feeling more and more that we had reached the critical tipping point and the republic as it was intended was doomed. But Goldberg's article made me back up and rethink some things. And your post supports his theory.
 
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Foxfyre

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The axis of indoctrination (academia, media, Hollywood) has achieved its goal. We are going to see liberalism on steroids in the future.
I think this will become a harder sell, especially if the victimization psychology starts to break down.
It doesn't matter if it's sold at this point or not. The progressives are holding the reins, they won't give them up.
But if they can't gain new recruits, can we at least hope they will lose by attrition?
 

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