Is LeBron James the GOAT?

[Ridgerunner]

It's hard to argue against Bird, but Durant is the one I'd take and certainly before Mullin although I liked Mullin also. I really think that people need to look at the players and their games instead of overrating players just because you need something.

I choose Bird and Mullin not only for their ability to play ball, but because of their passion and heart for the game... In my guesstimation Mullin had more natural ability for the game than Bird… Bird worked and worked hard at playing ball... Those two and Reggie Miller are my all time favorites...

 

[IM2]

It's hard to argue against Bird, but Durant is the one I'd take and certainly before Mullin although I liked Mullin also. I really think that people need to look at the players and their games instead of overrating players just because you need something.

I choose Bird and Mullin not only for their ability to play ball, but because of their passion and heart for the game... In my guesstimation Mullin had more natural ability for the game than Bird… Bird worked and worked hard at playing ball... Those two and Reggie Miller are my all time favorites...

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

 

[Rocko]

The argument can be made that Lebron is the GOAT
You can also make a case for Jordan

But Lebron still has several years to play

I make my case for Jordan based on the fact that he was scoring an average of over 30 points per game for at least the 6 years he won championships. He led the league in scoring those years and I think in steal for several years with it and made the all defensive team as well. James has not had years scoring 30 ppg, consecutively if he has had one. James has never approached the 37 ppg average Jordan had one year. James is one of the greats for certain but the greatest of all time? Not IMO.

Good point

But scoring is not the only aspect of the game.

Jordan won defensive player of the year, lebron never has. Lebron is a better rebounder and passer however

 

[Rocko]

Physically lebron is better, skill wise Jordan was better

 

[IM2]

Physically lebron is better, skill wise Jordan was better

Physically Lebron is bigger. But he is not as quick.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

Oh please believe me I know that none of my picks are ever going to be athletic GOAT's... Larry Bird just did not have the Natural Athletic Ability the great ones have... Let's just say the coaches were not beating down the door to watch Larry Bird play ball... I am not trying to say the MJ did not have to work and work hard to become the player he become (GOAT as far as I am concerned)… I am saying Bird more than likely put in more time than a very large % of College and NBA players to become the level of Player he was... Passion & Heart...


“I couldn’t wait for school to let out for the summer so I could play ball. I would duck into the gym in between classes to get a few shots up and play again after school into the early hours of the next morning, feeling that sleep was a rude intrusion on my practice time.” Larry Bird

The senior year

Former Sycamore coach Bill Hodges, an assistant at Tennessee Tech at the time, recalls seeing Bird play as a junior when he was recruiting the 6-7 Gilstrap. Hodges was among the majority of programs that weren’t interested in Bird’s potential … yet.

“He was a good player — he was a ‘tweener’ — but you don’t jump out and start recruiting a 6-3 wing player,” Hodges recalled. “I liked their [point guard] Danny King [and] eventually ended up recruiting him to Indiana State [from junior college].”

The Bird Years: Small-town beginnings

 

[IM2]

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

Oh please believe me I know that none of my picks are ever going to be athletic GOAT's... Larry Bird just did not have the Natural Athletic Ability the great ones have... Let's just say the coaches were not beating down the door to watch Larry Bird play ball... I am not trying to say the MJ did not have to work and work hard to become the player he become (GOAT as far as I am concerned)… I am saying Bird more than likely put in more time than a very large % of College and NBA players to become the level of Player he was... Passion & Heart...


“I couldn’t wait for school to let out for the summer so I could play ball. I would duck into the gym in between classes to get a few shots up and play again after school into the early hours of the next morning, feeling that sleep was a rude intrusion on my practice time.” Larry Bird

The senior year

Former Sycamore coach Bill Hodges, an assistant at Tennessee Tech at the time, recalls seeing Bird play as a junior when he was recruiting the 6-7 Gilstrap. Hodges was among the majority of programs that weren’t interested in Bird’s potential … yet.

“He was a good player — he was a ‘tweener’ — but you don’t jump out and start recruiting a 6-3 wing player,” Hodges recalled. “I liked their [point guard] Danny King [and] eventually ended up recruiting him to Indiana State [from junior college].”

The Bird Years: Small-town beginnings

But somehow he ended up playing for Bobby Knight on scholarship as a freshman.

Bird didn't work harder than anyone else in the NBA. He had no more passion and heart than anyone else. You could post the same statement you quoted from Bird to almost any of the NBA players and certainly to the all time greats. Kids from the inner city who would wake up go to the park and play until dark. Nothing against you, but I get tired of how certain types are always portrayed as not having things and how they just outsmarted or worked harder than everyone. Magic wasn't the greatest athlete either but he won 5 championships and went to 9 finals. Yet he never got credit for outworking or outsmarting anyone. Bird was an all time great. He's in the HOF. It doesn't get much better than that.

 

[sealybobo]

If he wins a championship this year he will be the greatest. He’ll, I wouldn’t argue too hard even though I still sort of go with Jordan just because he was such a competitor I think mentally Michael would have owned lebron but damn it’s hard to say anyone was greater than lebron.

Even Jordan would have been in awe of lebron while he was beating him.

Actually it's not that hard IMO. LeBron is no Jordan. Not even close. And LeBron is great but not like that. I really think people have forgotten just how dominant Jordan truly was. He was in his 30's the same age as Lebron, his teams had 2 consecutive 70 win seasons and he averaged over 30 point per game while winning 2 championships.

He won his last title on a 70 -12 team at age 35 averaging over 30 points per game.

So he had a better team. Lebron did everything he could last night. The cavs should be up 1 to 0.

Lebron is now the goat in my mind. He won that game last night if not for jr Smith.

That's your opinion. Lebron ran players out of town so if he has to score like that and has to do everything it's his fault. But he's no Jordan. Not even close.

Jordan is benefitting from his teams success.

You know who I have lost a little respecct for? Durant. He may win another championship this year but he’s not impressing me like he did last year and years before.

Lebron ran players out of town. So if he has to carry a team of scrubs it's his fault. Jordan carried the Bulls and Jordan is simply better than Lebron. All of a sudden we are going to make excuses for Lebrons team when for much of his career he's been surrounded by All stars. If Jordan played by todays rules, he'd average 50 points a game. No hand checks, no hard fouls in the lane, Jordan would have a field day.

Hard to argue. I go back and forth. You’ve made good points.

But then what about the Jordan rule? And they would always call fouls on Jordan’s defender. He was protected like Gretzky.

Imagine if jr Smith didn’t screw up and the Cavs went on to win the series. That almost happened last night. The sucky Cavs almost beat green curry Durant and the rest of that crew. Lebron is pretty damn good. Maybe the best. Hard to compare but I know why you think Jordan is the greatest because I agree. But I’m also open to the idea lebron has done more with less

 

[sealybobo]

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

Oh please believe me I know that none of my picks are ever going to be athletic GOAT's... Larry Bird just did not have the Natural Athletic Ability the great ones have... Let's just say the coaches were not beating down the door to watch Larry Bird play ball... I am not trying to say the MJ did not have to work and work hard to become the player he become (GOAT as far as I am concerned)… I am saying Bird more than likely put in more time than a very large % of College and NBA players to become the level of Player he was... Passion & Heart...


“I couldn’t wait for school to let out for the summer so I could play ball. I would duck into the gym in between classes to get a few shots up and play again after school into the early hours of the next morning, feeling that sleep was a rude intrusion on my practice time.” Larry Bird

The senior year

Former Sycamore coach Bill Hodges, an assistant at Tennessee Tech at the time, recalls seeing Bird play as a junior when he was recruiting the 6-7 Gilstrap. Hodges was among the majority of programs that weren’t interested in Bird’s potential … yet.

“He was a good player — he was a ‘tweener’ — but you don’t jump out and start recruiting a 6-3 wing player,” Hodges recalled. “I liked their [point guard] Danny King [and] eventually ended up recruiting him to Indiana State [from junior college].”

The Bird Years: Small-town beginnings

But somehow he ended up playing for Bobby Knight on scholarship as a freshman.

Bird didn't work harder than anyone else in the NBA. He had no more passion and heart than anyone else. You could post the same statement you quoted from Bird to almost any of the NBA players and certainly to the all time greats. Kids from the inner city who would wake up go to the park and play until dark. Nothing against you, but I get tired of how certain types are always portrayed as not having things and how they just outsmarted or worked harder than everyone. Magic wasn't the greatest athlete either but he won 5 championships and went to 9 finals. Yet he never got credit for outworking or outsmarting anyone. Bird was an all time great. He's in the HOF. It doesn't get much better than that.

Bird probably had to put extra hours in because he wasn’t as naturally gifted.

It’d be nice if Andre Drummond practiced free throws

 

[Ridgerunner]

But somehow he ended up playing for Bobby Knight on scholarship as a freshman.

Bird signed a letter of intent with IU... Never played one game for The General...

 

[sealybobo]

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

Oh please believe me I know that none of my picks are ever going to be athletic GOAT's... Larry Bird just did not have the Natural Athletic Ability the great ones have... Let's just say the coaches were not beating down the door to watch Larry Bird play ball... I am not trying to say the MJ did not have to work and work hard to become the player he become (GOAT as far as I am concerned)… I am saying Bird more than likely put in more time than a very large % of College and NBA players to become the level of Player he was... Passion & Heart...


“I couldn’t wait for school to let out for the summer so I could play ball. I would duck into the gym in between classes to get a few shots up and play again after school into the early hours of the next morning, feeling that sleep was a rude intrusion on my practice time.” Larry Bird

The senior year

Former Sycamore coach Bill Hodges, an assistant at Tennessee Tech at the time, recalls seeing Bird play as a junior when he was recruiting the 6-7 Gilstrap. Hodges was among the majority of programs that weren’t interested in Bird’s potential … yet.

“He was a good player — he was a ‘tweener’ — but you don’t jump out and start recruiting a 6-3 wing player,” Hodges recalled. “I liked their [point guard] Danny King [and] eventually ended up recruiting him to Indiana State [from junior college].”

The Bird Years: Small-town beginnings

But somehow he ended up playing for Bobby Knight on scholarship as a freshman.

Bird didn't work harder than anyone else in the NBA. He had no more passion and heart than anyone else. You could post the same statement you quoted from Bird to almost any of the NBA players and certainly to the all time greats. Kids from the inner city who would wake up go to the park and play until dark. Nothing against you, but I get tired of how certain types are always portrayed as not having things and how they just outsmarted or worked harder than everyone. Magic wasn't the greatest athlete either but he won 5 championships and went to 9 finals. Yet he never got credit for outworking or outsmarting anyone. Bird was an all time great. He's in the HOF. It doesn't get much better than that.

You guys hate it when a guy like Elvis, Eminem bird or Justin Timberlake comes along and white people start saying they’re the greatest of all time.

He’s only the greatest white. Then dirk nowitski. And Walton. Not too many whites in the top 20

 

[Rocko]

Physically lebron is better, skill wise Jordan was better

Physically Lebron is bigger. But he is not as quick.

That’s debatable

 

[IM2]

Physically lebron is better, skill wise Jordan was better

Physically Lebron is bigger. But he is not as quick.

That’s debatable

Not really. Lebron has great straight ahead speed but he's at a deficit compared to Jordan when it comes to cutting and shifting. Most of LeBrons attacks to the basket are him going straight ahead. On top of that if you look real close he gives a stiff arm to defenders to begin his move.

 

[IM2]

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

Oh please believe me I know that none of my picks are ever going to be athletic GOAT's... Larry Bird just did not have the Natural Athletic Ability the great ones have... Let's just say the coaches were not beating down the door to watch Larry Bird play ball... I am not trying to say the MJ did not have to work and work hard to become the player he become (GOAT as far as I am concerned)… I am saying Bird more than likely put in more time than a very large % of College and NBA players to become the level of Player he was... Passion & Heart...


“I couldn’t wait for school to let out for the summer so I could play ball. I would duck into the gym in between classes to get a few shots up and play again after school into the early hours of the next morning, feeling that sleep was a rude intrusion on my practice time.” Larry Bird

The senior year

Former Sycamore coach Bill Hodges, an assistant at Tennessee Tech at the time, recalls seeing Bird play as a junior when he was recruiting the 6-7 Gilstrap. Hodges was among the majority of programs that weren’t interested in Bird’s potential … yet.

“He was a good player — he was a ‘tweener’ — but you don’t jump out and start recruiting a 6-3 wing player,” Hodges recalled. “I liked their [point guard] Danny King [and] eventually ended up recruiting him to Indiana State [from junior college].”

The Bird Years: Small-town beginnings

But somehow he ended up playing for Bobby Knight on scholarship as a freshman.

Bird didn't work harder than anyone else in the NBA. He had no more passion and heart than anyone else. You could post the same statement you quoted from Bird to almost any of the NBA players and certainly to the all time greats. Kids from the inner city who would wake up go to the park and play until dark. Nothing against you, but I get tired of how certain types are always portrayed as not having things and how they just outsmarted or worked harder than everyone. Magic wasn't the greatest athlete either but he won 5 championships and went to 9 finals. Yet he never got credit for outworking or outsmarting anyone. Bird was an all time great. He's in the HOF. It doesn't get much better than that.

You guys hate it when a guy like Elvis, Eminem bird or Justin Timberlake comes along and white people start saying they’re the greatest of all time.

He’s only the greatest white. Then dirk nowitski. And Walton. Not too many whites in the top 20

No, you're wrong. What I dislike is how whites get credit for their minds and hard work while blacks never do. In sports blacks are just lucky and born with superior athletic ability whereby the whites are hard workers who out think everybody. That's what I don't like. And don't get me started on white musicians because the politics of race is even worse there.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

 

[dblack]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

I don't follow basketball, especially pro. But I happened to catch a game the other day and James execute a behind the back pass that was utterly amazing - and it played like an afterthought.

 

[Ridgerunner]

No, you're wrong. What I dislike is how whites get credit for their minds and hard work while blacks never do. In sports blacks are just lucky and born with superior athletic ability whereby the whites are hard workers who out think everybody. That's what I don't like. And don't get me started on white musicians because the politics of race is even worse there.

Color me gone if you turn this into a racial discussion... It is not about race and never has been for me... I thought we were having a civil discourse re: Basket Ball and the Players that make the game great... If everything in your life is about race, my deepest consolation...

 

[IM2]

My thing is that every player playing in the NBA or any other sport worked extremely hard to get there and works harder to stay here. Jordan didn't just wake up one day with those skills. Bird didn't work harder than anyone else. And I liked Bird and Mullin, but I recognize that others existed that were better. Bird was an assassin of the highest order but I'd take Durant over him almost every time.

Oh please believe me I know that none of my picks are ever going to be athletic GOAT's... Larry Bird just did not have the Natural Athletic Ability the great ones have... Let's just say the coaches were not beating down the door to watch Larry Bird play ball... I am not trying to say the MJ did not have to work and work hard to become the player he become (GOAT as far as I am concerned)… I am saying Bird more than likely put in more time than a very large % of College and NBA players to become the level of Player he was... Passion & Heart...


“I couldn’t wait for school to let out for the summer so I could play ball. I would duck into the gym in between classes to get a few shots up and play again after school into the early hours of the next morning, feeling that sleep was a rude intrusion on my practice time.” Larry Bird

The senior year

Former Sycamore coach Bill Hodges, an assistant at Tennessee Tech at the time, recalls seeing Bird play as a junior when he was recruiting the 6-7 Gilstrap. Hodges was among the majority of programs that weren’t interested in Bird’s potential … yet.

“He was a good player — he was a ‘tweener’ — but you don’t jump out and start recruiting a 6-3 wing player,” Hodges recalled. “I liked their [point guard] Danny King [and] eventually ended up recruiting him to Indiana State [from junior college].”

The Bird Years: Small-town beginnings

But somehow he ended up playing for Bobby Knight on scholarship as a freshman.

Bird didn't work harder than anyone else in the NBA. He had no more passion and heart than anyone else. You could post the same statement you quoted from Bird to almost any of the NBA players and certainly to the all time greats. Kids from the inner city who would wake up go to the park and play until dark. Nothing against you, but I get tired of how certain types are always portrayed as not having things and how they just outsmarted or worked harder than everyone. Magic wasn't the greatest athlete either but he won 5 championships and went to 9 finals. Yet he never got credit for outworking or outsmarting anyone. Bird was an all time great. He's in the HOF. It doesn't get much better than that.

You guys hate it when a guy like Elvis, Eminem bird or Justin Timberlake comes along and white people start saying they’re the greatest of all time.

He’s only the greatest white. Then dirk nowitski. And Walton. Not too many whites in the top 20

No, you're wrong. What I dislike is how whites get credit for their minds and hard work while blacks never do. In sports blacks are just lucky and born with superior athletic ability whereby the whites are hard workers who out think everybody. That's what I don't like. And don't get me started on white musicians because the politics of race is even worse there.

Color me gone if you turn this into a racial discussion... It is not about race and never has been for me... I thought we were having a civil discourse re: Basket Ball and the Players that make the game great... If everything in your life is about race, my deepest consolation...

Then be gone if you can't say that to the person who bought up race.

 

[IM2]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

 

[sealybobo]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit