Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[TruthNotBS]

That's what the Watchtower told you. Think. Why was Israel called "Firstborn"? Why was David called "Firstborn"? Think. Read the Scriptures.

1. Colossians 1:15 - "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;" (Colossians 1:15)
2. Revelation 3:14 - "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation." (Revelation 3:14)
3. John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God. It is the only begotten god, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known." (John 1:18)
4. Romans 8:29 - "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family." (Romans 8:29)
5. Colossians 1:18 - "He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything." (Colossians 1:18)

Jesus is referred to as both the beginning and the "firstborn" in a context that suggests both preeminence and an actual chronological primacy in God's creative and redemptive acts. The designation of "firstborn" in the context of Jesus involves both leadership and a unique ontological status, aligning with the fact that Jesus is distinctively the beginning of God’s creation and hence holds a special status in relation to both creation and redemption.

Jesus before his incarnation was an immortal god, with an angelic form or morphe, and despite that he chose to empty himself and adopt the mortal form of an earthly man.

Philippians 2:6-8 - "who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he found himself in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a cross." (Philippians 2:6-8, NWT)

 

[Libby von H]

Name callers are usually about 10 years old. Others have grown up.
I know there weren't capitols in Greek, We dont speak Greek, our translations are in English thus there are capitols. And in the Greek lexicons at John 1:1 the true God called Ton Theon= God when in the same paragraph with Theon=god. It occurs at 2Cor 4:4 as well. Its why there is a difference of what one was called. God is called Theon in many passages=God but all know its God being spoken of.
There have been many translations in history with a god at John 1:1, because its correct. Rejected by all trinity religions because that single error in their translations prove them all false religion. So do facts of history.

THe only major traslation to use 'a god' was Jehonvahs Witness

 

[Libby von H]

All who can think for self reasonably will answer-NO to the question.

One greater than Jesus gave him all authority in heaven and on earth- Matt 28:18---Fact-God has always had the authority, none can give it to him.
One greater than Jesus gave him the judging duties-John 5:27--God was already judge.
God was king-1Chron 16:31--One greater than Jesus appointed him to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15)--But then Jesus must hand back the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) to his God and Father and subject himself---God is in subjection to no one.
Jesus and his real teachers teach Jesus has a God=his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3, Eph 1:3, Col 1:3--1Pet 1:3) God does not have a God.
Jesus teaches he can do 0 of his own( John 5:19, 30)--God did all the powerful works-THROUGH-Jesus( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6)--God created all things-99.9% -THROUGH- Jesus( Col 1:16)--He created Jesus first and last direct=The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15) The only begotten son.

There is no capitol G God to the word at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons- The true God called-Ton Theon=God, the word called Theon=god when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon as 2 Cor 4:4 clearly shows, its why there is a difference. translating works the same at both spots.

All being mislead into worshipping a non existent trinity created at the councils of Catholicism are breaking Gods #1 commandment daily. Not somewhere one wants to be standing.---Think about these facts, God warned all-GET OUT OF HER.

It is what people who hated Him more than you concluded.
You are some little teen pervert trying to impress some fat girl, I understand

 

[TruthNotBS]

THe only major traslation to use 'a god' was Jehonvahs Witness

Yeah? Most translators, if not all of them, are Trinitarians. The Greek grammar and the context makes "god" with a small g the most reasonable translation of "theos" (Greek for divine, divinity). Christ, the Logos and the only begotten god, was the archangel Michael, commander of YHWH's armies or hosts. He is the "Sar Gadol" or High Prince/Archangel described in Danel 12:1-2. The heavenly king who raises the dead, both the righteous and the wicked. He is the only begotten god or angel because before him an angel had never been begotten. John 1:18 can be understood within the context of incarnation. He is the only begotten god.

The Greek words "μονογενὴς Θεός" (monogenēs Theos) translated as "only begotten god" are in the majority of earlier manuscripts, including the influential Papyrus 66 and Papyrus 75 (dating from around 200 AD), contain "only begotten god." Later manuscripts tend to have "only begotten son." I generally, go with the earliest manuscripts, closer to the original.

 

[BS Filter]

1. Colossians 1:15 - "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;" (Colossians 1:15)
2. Revelation 3:14 - "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation." (Revelation 3:14)
3. John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God. It is the only begotten god, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known." (John 1:18)
4. Romans 8:29 - "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family." (Romans 8:29)
5. Colossians 1:18 - "He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything." (Colossians 1:18)

Jesus is referred to as both the beginning and the "firstborn" in a context that suggests both preeminence and an actual chronological primacy in God's creative and redemptive acts. The designation of "firstborn" in the context of Jesus involves both leadership and a unique ontological status, aligning with the fact that Jesus is distinctively the beginning of God’s creation and hence holds a special status in relation to both creation and redemption.

Jesus before his incarnation was an immortal god, with an angelic form or morphe, and despite that he chose to empty himself and adopt the mortal form of an earthly man.

Philippians 2:6-8 - "who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he found himself in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a cross." (Philippians 2:6-8, NWT)

What translation is that?

 

[TruthNotBS]

What translation is that?

What do you disagree with in the translations that I used?

 

[BS Filter]

What do you disagree with in the translations that I used?

I'm curious because at the end of the quote from Phillipians 2:6-8 it says "cross". Then it says "NWT". What is NWT?

 

[BS Filter]

Yeah? Most translators, if not all of them, are Trinitarians. The Greek grammar and the context makes "god" with a small g the most reasonable translation of "theos" (Greek for divine, divinity). Christ, the Logos and the only begotten god, was the archangel Michael, commander of YHWH's armies or hosts. He is the "Sar Gadol" or High Prince/Archangel described in Danel 12:1-2. The heavenly king who raises the dead, both the righteous and the wicked. He is the only begotten god or angel because before him an angel had never been begotten. John 1:18 can be understood within the context of incarnation. He is the only begotten god.

The Greek words "μονογενὴς Θεός" (monogenēs Theos) translated as "only begotten god" are in the majority of earlier manuscripts, including the influential Papyrus 66 and Papyrus 75 (dating from around 200 AD), contain "only begotten god." Later manuscripts tend to have "only begotten son." I generally, go with the earliest manuscripts, closer to the original.

In Daniel 10, Michael is called "one of the chief princes". That means he is not unique.

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

 

[forkintheroad7]

JWs don't like the Scripture in John 2 where Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Every time a JW sees Scripture saying God they think Jehovah or the Father. Jesus never said the Father was Jehovah. That's because Jesus is Jehovah. They're blind. The Scriptures can only be understood by the Holy Spirit and JWs don't have the Holy Spirit. I know when I received the Holy Spirit the Scriptures jumped off the pages and came to life.

well, I would tend to think that everyone has a smidgen of the Holy Spirit because he/she is made in God's image. But I know what you mean here. When I was young, b4 I had an experience with Jesus, I didn't even have an interest in the Bible. Afterward, I did.

 

[TruthNotBS]

In Daniel 10, Michael is called "one of the chief princes". That means he is not unique.

The term "Rishonim" (ראשונים), in Daniel 10, translates as "first ones" or "foremost," and doesn't typically imply a structured hierarchy with a specific leader within the context of the Hebrew Bible. Instead, it denotes a group or category of entities that are considered preeminent or primary in some aspect. In the book of Revelations, we read about the seven spirits of YHWH. that are near His throne.

However, in Daniel 12:1, Michael is identified as "Sar Gadol" (שַׂר גָּדוֹל - High/Great Prince) of Israel, which is a different term, similar to the "Cohen Gadol" (כֹּהֵן גָּדוֹל - High/Great Priest), hence can signify his headship over the heavenly "Rishonim" (שַׂר גָּדוֹל). He has a unique position, that's why the NT identifies Michael and only him, as the Archangel. Just as Israel is head of the nations, its Sar Gadol is head of all of the heavenly holy spirits or angels (a heavenly Israel).

Jos 5:13-15 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? (14) And he said, Nay; but as SAR/PRINCE of the host of YHWH am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? (15) And the SAR/PRINCE of YHWH's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

THE GREAT PRINCE/SAR GADOL - In both Daniel 12:1 and several hundred years earlier, standing before Joshua.

Michael - Who Is Like God? That's the meaning of his glorious name, asking the rhetorical question to all of the hosts of heaven and human beings alike - WHO IS LIKE GOD? It's not Satan, the usurper angel, who tried to take his place, to become LIKE GOD, but there is one who is like God, it is the Son of God, THE FIRSTBORN IN HEAVEN/SAR GADOL, he asks you and me, and all of the hosts of heaven - WHO IS LIKE GOD? The answer to that question is to throw your crown before him and fall on your face - YOU MY LORD ARE LIKE GOD - YOU ARE GOD TO US.

He is the SAR GADOL of Israel.The very name of Israel, can be translated as "Prince of God". The meaning of Sara's name, the mother of Israel, is "princes". Michael stands up in Daniel 12:1 as a king, at the end of the age, after Israel has suffered its greatest tribulation to save Israel, resulting in the resurrection:

Dan 12:1-4 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the SAR GADOL which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (3) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (4) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

A directly comparable usage of the word "stand" or יַעֲמֹד (ya'amod) involving a king can be seen in Daniel 11:2-3. Here, the text prophesies about a series of Persian kings and a mighty king who will stand to rule:

"And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will."

Zechariah 12:8 from the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible:

"In that day shall YHWH defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of YHWH before them."

The Angel of YHWH is LIKE GOD = MICHAEL'S NAME IS "WHO IS LIKE GOD?", THE ANSWER IS = YOU, NOT SATAN. I WILL STAND WITH YOU, NOT THE USURPER REBEL. He is the Sar Gadol.

We can have a more formal debate if you wish here on the thread on this topic. I've already written enough on this post.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I'm curious because at the end of the quote from Phillipians 2:6-8 it says "cross". Then it says "NWT". What is NWT.

I don't agree with the NWT or Jehovah's Witnesses about Jesus being impaled on a "torture stake", although if I get more evidence, I might change my mind. Right now I believe Joshua/"Jesus" was crucified. I agree with the NWT or New World Translation on many difficult-to-translate passages. I also like the RSV and ASV. But people here on the forum sometimes demand the KJV, so I also cite from that. If I believe the translation is wrong, I will apply my own translation to it, based upon my knowledge of Biblical Hebrew and Greek.

 

[BS Filter]

I don't agree with the NWT or Jehovah's Witnesses about Jesus being impaled on a "torture stake", although if I get more evidence, I might change my mind. Right now I believe Joshua/"Jesus" was crucified. I agree with the NWT or New World Translation on many difficult-to-translate passages. I also like the RSV and ASV. But people here on the forum sometimes demand the KJV, so I also cite from that. If I believe the translation is wrong, I will apply my own translation to it, based upon my knowledge of Biblical Hebrew and Greek.

So for the most part you believe that the New World Translation is a credible Translation?

 

[kjw47]

That's what the Watchtower told you. Think. Why was Israel called "Firstborn"? Why was David called "Firstborn"? Think. Read the Scriptures.

Both of those have 0 to do with Jesus being firstborn. All creation occurred at the beginning, at no other time were things created after that. God rested. Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation.

 

[kjw47]

THe only major traslation to use 'a god' was Jehonvahs Witness

Actually there have been many in history with a god at John 1:1--Rejected by trinity religions because that fact exposes them as false religion. the word is not called God in the Greek lexicons at John 1:1
In 1822 a Greek scholar-Abner Kneeland translated the NT from the Greek lexicons, he compared Greek to English side by side in his translation to prove to the world a god is correct.

 

[BS Filter]

Both of those have 0 to do with Jesus being firstborn. All creation occurred at the beginning, at no other time were things created after that. God rested. Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation.

The term "Firstborn" does not mean first created. You've been lied to. It means "Preeminence".

 

[TruthNotBS]

So for the most part you believe that the New World Translation is a credible Translation?

It translates the Greek better in many passages than the KJV and other Trinitarian translations. But it's not perfect, I don't agree with the translation of some passages, like Psalms 45:5-7 and a few others.

 

[BS Filter]

Actually there have been many in history with a god at John 1:1--Rejected by trinity religions because that fact exposes them as false religion. the word is not called God in the Greek lexicons at John 1:1
In 1822 a Greek scholar-Abner Kneeland translated the NT from the Greek lexicons, he compared Greek to English side by side in his translation to prove to the world a god is correct.

Yet, none of the NWT translators were Greek or Hebrew scholars. You believe a lie.

 

[kjw47]

It is what people who hated Him more than you concluded.
You are some little teen pervert trying to impress some fat girl, I understand

Wow you sound demented. Maybe the darkness does that to one. Was Paul a little pervert to-1Cor 8:6--he tells all who the true God is=The Father---not Father, son and holy spirit. And since you know it all, how do you get by recorded history that no trinity god was ever served prior to the council of Constantinople in 381 ce? Thats when Catholicism( 2 Thess 2:3) added the holy spirit to a godhead=recorded fact of history. That means Israel, Jesus and every bible writer knew 0 of a trinity god as the true God. Catholicisms own encyclopedia says no trinity was served prior to the end of the 4th century and the apostolic fathers knew nothing of God as being a trinity.
You need to know facts before discussing a matter, correct?

 

[BS Filter]

It translates the Greek better in many passages than the KJV and other Trinitarian translations. But it's not perfect, I don't agree with the translation of some passages, like Psalms 45:5-7 and a few others.

Not really. Do you know how many Greek and Hebrew scholars were involved in the translation? None. It was translated by a group of Jehovah Witnesses called the Governing Body who had no degrees in Hebrew or Greek.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The term "Firstborn" does not mean first created. You've been lied to. It means "Preeminence".

Christ is the beginning of YHWH's creation and the only begotten god (the only one of YHWH's angels, who was begotten of a woman and born fully human). YHWH created everything ex-nihilo, then the Firstborn with his angels, organized it, put it all together, and then sustained it.

The archangel, or Angel of YHWH is the beginning of YHWH's creative works. Wisdom is an expression of YHWH's archangel and Son. If you deny this, then who was God's real firstborn? The first being created by Him?