Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[hadit]

In your altered trinity translations, you are correct. But those spots contradict Jesus to the core.

And there's your trademark phrase, "altered trinity translations". It's bogus, designed only to sound authoritative and shut down discussion. It also doesn't work, in case you haven't noticed.

See, here's your problem. You claim without evidence that the Scriptures we've been using for thousands of years are "altered", and apparently only in 1961 did anyone catch on and write new Scriptures without referring to the original languages. This, despite the plethora of copies we have found in the original languages that are astonishingly accurate in their transmittal of Scripture through the years.

Let's weigh the two. On the one hand, we have thousands of documents and document fragments from thousands of years all agreeing. On the other, we have a group of people in 1961 who can't read the original languages claiming they have "translated" brand new Scripture that contradicts what we have known for thousands of years.

The bottom line is, the only Scripture that's been "altered" is yours. It's not true to the original languages, it's altered.

 

[hadit]

The Father( God) commands Jesus in all things he does and teaches-John 5:30

Did you miss where I said I have a boss at work who can tell me what I am to do and when to do it, yet we are both equally human? I think you are deliberately ignoring inconvenient things.

Gal1--God the Father raised Jesus from the dead--it does not say all 3 did it.

Did you miss the other Scriptures I posted that say the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit were all involved in raising Yeshua from the grave? Did you miss where He said He had the power to not only lay down His own life but take it back up again? I think you are deliberately ignoring inconvenient things. Do NOT quote one part of what I posted and pretend you're digging your way out of a problem. I posted three Scriptures, each one saying one of the persons of God raised Yeshua from the dead, and told you outright that if you insist God is not three in one, they pose a contradiction. You ignored Scripture to avoid that problem. Now, I asked you before and I'm asking you again, post those three verses from YOUR version of the Scriptures so we can see how your guys "translated" them.

In Isaiah YHVH(Jehovah) says--I am YHVH(Jehovah) besides me( not we) there is no other God. But since your translations are altered by satans will to mislead you probably have LORD in that passage. But God inspired YHVH(Jehovah) in that passage-Why? Because God wants his name there.

In Genesis God also says, "Let US make man in OUR image". THEY are ONE. And again you insist that the Scriptures we have been using for thousands of years that are verified against the oldest documents we have are wrong, and guys that don't even read the original languages have "translated" them into something convenient for you only in 1961.

Tell you what, learn how to read Greek and Hebrew, read the original documents, then come back here and tell us again how the writers got it all wrong and your guys figured it out in 1961. Tell us how those very old original documents were altered.

 

[hadit]

All sons are created by their Father.

Human sons are created by their Fathers. Human sons are also equally human with their Fathers. Are you trying to claim that God created someone equal to Himself?

 

[Libby von H]

All who can think for self reasonably will answer-NO to the question.

One greater than Jesus gave him all authority in heaven and on earth- Matt 28:18---Fact-God has always had the authority, none can give it to him.
One greater than Jesus gave him the judging duties-John 5:27--God was already judge.
God was king-1Chron 16:31--One greater than Jesus appointed him to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15)--But then Jesus must hand back the kingdom( 1Cor 15:24-28) to his God and Father and subject himself---God is in subjection to no one.
Jesus and his real teachers teach Jesus has a God=his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3, Eph 1:3, Col 1:3--1Pet 1:3) God does not have a God.
Jesus teaches he can do 0 of his own( John 5:19, 30)--God did all the powerful works-THROUGH-Jesus( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6)--God created all things-99.9% -THROUGH- Jesus( Col 1:16)--He created Jesus first and last direct=The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15) The only begotten son.

There is no capitol G God to the word at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons- The true God called-Ton Theon=God, the word called Theon=god when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon as 2 Cor 4:4 clearly shows, its why there is a difference. translating works the same at both spots.

All being mislead into worshipping a non existent trinity created at the councils of Catholicism are breaking Gods #1 commandment daily. Not somewhere one wants to be standing.---Think about these facts, God warned all-GET OUT OF HER.

Jesus versus an anonymous asshole who has poor grammar and doesn't know that there were no capital letters in Hebrew. WHAT A MORON

 

[Libby von H]

Human sons are created by their Fathers. Human sons are also equally human with their Fathers. Are you trying to claim that God created someone equal to Himself?

Your position is illogical , reads the account wrong,and is self-contradictory
The Father was ALWAYS the Father, the Son was always the Son.

Joseph Ratzinger’s relational personalism consists in surpassing the singular
in the concept of person. The existence of a person points to another person,
somebody else, for a person is someone in relation to another person. Joseph
Ratzinger sees two important periods in the formation of the concept of person in
theology. The first period is the transition from substance to subsistence. The second
one is the transition from subsistence to relation, so that the person is not only
selfhood but relational selfhood.

You see a person as an atom and originaly in relation to nothing in the universe.

It is illogical to say that what Christians believe is that there was a Divine Being , not yet the Father, Who begot a Son.
That is fairy tale creepy. GROW UP

 

[kjw47]

Wrong. Nowhere in Scripture does it say Jesus was created. That's a deliberate mistranslation of Scripture by the Watchtower. Firstborn has nothing to do with being created First. David is called "Firstborn", yet he was the youngest son. It's a Hebrew term that means "preeminence". You've been lied to.

Why does God refer to David as his Firstborn? Psalm 89:27

Psalm 89:20 ,27 NASB 20 “I have found David My servant;With My holy oil I have anointed him,27 “I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. David was not a firstbo...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

Col 1:15--The firstborn of all creation.

 

[kjw47]

And there's your trademark phrase, "altered trinity translations". It's bogus, designed only to sound authoritative and shut down discussion. It also doesn't work, in case you haven't noticed.

See, here's your problem. You claim without evidence that the Scriptures we've been using for thousands of years are "altered", and apparently only in 1961 did anyone catch on and write new Scriptures without referring to the original languages. This, despite the plethora of copies we have found in the original languages that are astonishingly accurate in their transmittal of Scripture through the years.

Let's weigh the two. On the one hand, we have thousands of documents and document fragments from thousands of years all agreeing. On the other, we have a group of people in 1961 who can't read the original languages claiming they have "translated" brand new Scripture that contradicts what we have known for thousands of years.

The bottom line is, the only Scripture that's been "altered" is yours. It's not true to the original languages, it's altered.

It is undeniable fact of life. God willed his name in over 7000 places in his real bible. Wicked men by satan's will removed Gods name against Gods will to mislead. ALL using those translations are being mislead to NOT enter Gods kingdom. You best relook.

 

[kjw47]

Did you miss where I said I have a boss at work who can tell me what I am to do and when to do it, yet we are both equally human? I think you are deliberately ignoring inconvenient things.

Did you miss the other Scriptures I posted that say the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit were all involved in raising Yeshua from the grave? Did you miss where He said He had the power to not only lay down His own life but take it back up again? I think you are deliberately ignoring inconvenient things. Do NOT quote one part of what I posted and pretend you're digging your way out of a problem. I posted three Scriptures, each one saying one of the persons of God raised Yeshua from the dead, and told you outright that if you insist God is not three in one, they pose a contradiction. You ignored Scripture to avoid that problem. Now, I asked you before and I'm asking you again, post those three verses from YOUR version of the Scriptures so we can see how your guys "translated" them.

In Genesis God also says, "Let US make man in OUR image". THEY are ONE. And again you insist that the Scriptures we have been using for thousands of years that are verified against the oldest documents we have are wrong, and guys that don't even read the original languages have "translated" them into something convenient for you only in 1961.

Tell you what, learn how to read Greek and Hebrew, read the original documents, then come back here and tell us again how the writers got it all wrong and your guys figured it out in 1961. Tell us how those very old original documents were altered.

Let us=YHVH(Jehovah) and the one who was beside him during the creation process=Prov 8:30= Gods master worker. He gives God 100% credit for creating at Prov 8.

 

[kjw47]

Human sons are created by their Fathers. Human sons are also equally human with their Fathers. Are you trying to claim that God created someone equal to Himself?

Jesus isn't equal-John 5:30--he can do 0 of his own inititive. He is Gods image, not God( Col 1:15-16)

 

[kjw47]

Jesus versus an anonymous asshole who has poor grammar and doesn't know that there were no capital letters in Hebrew. WHAT A MORON

Name callers are usually about 10 years old. Others have grown up.
I know there weren't capitols in Greek, We dont speak Greek, our translations are in English thus there are capitols. And in the Greek lexicons at John 1:1 the true God called Ton Theon= God when in the same paragraph with Theon=god. It occurs at 2Cor 4:4 as well. Its why there is a difference of what one was called. God is called Theon in many passages=God but all know its God being spoken of.
There have been many translations in history with a god at John 1:1, because its correct. Rejected by all trinity religions because that single error in their translations prove them all false religion. So do facts of history.

 

[BS Filter]

Col 1:15--The firstborn of all creation.

You've been lied to. Firstborn does not mean first created. David was the youngest son, yet scripture calls him God's Firstborn. God told Moses that Israel was His firstborn.

The firstborn of creation means preeminence. You've been lied to.

 

[hadit]

It is undeniable fact of life. God willed his name in over 7000 places in his real bible. Wicked men by satan's will removed Gods name against Gods will to mislead. ALL using those translations are being mislead to NOT enter Gods kingdom. You best relook.

And you apparently believe that God allowed His Word to remain perverted from the time Christ raised Himself from the dead until 1961, when all of a sudden, your handful of guys who don't read the original language set out to "interpret" those original languages to say something completely different. He allowed all those who earnestly sought Him to read only a perverted version of the truth, He allowed His followers to fall into sin and billions of people throughout history to fall into hell because He did not allow them to see the true Scriptures. Only in 1961 did He finally open the Word. This is what you believe? Now, I asked you to post some verses from that version of the Scriptures that you believe. Where are they?

 

[hadit]

Jesus isn't equal-John 5:30--he can do 0 of his own inititive. He is Gods image, not God( Col 1:15-16)

I am not equal to my boss at work. He can tell me what to do and when to do it. We're both equally human. My wife decides the priority of what needs to be cleaned in the house and when it needs to be cleaned. We're both equal partners in our marriage, and we're both equally human. A policeman can make you stop your car, restrain you and place you in a jail cell for the weekend. You're both equally human. Should I go on?

 

[hadit]

Let us=YHVH(Jehovah) and the one who was beside him during the creation process=Prov 8:30= Gods master worker. He gives God 100% credit for creating at Prov 8.

He created everything that was created, the Scriptures are clear on that. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Post the three verses from your version of the Scripture, not just the one that's convenient for you.

 

[BS Filter]

He created everything that was created, the Scriptures are clear on that. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Post the three verses from your version of the Scripture, not just the one that's convenient for you.

JWs don't like the Scripture in John 2 where Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Every time a JW sees Scripture saying God they think Jehovah or the Father. Jesus never said the Father was Jehovah. That's because Jesus is Jehovah. They're blind. The Scriptures can only be understood by the Holy Spirit and JWs don't have the Holy Spirit. I know when I received the Holy Spirit the Scriptures jumped off the pages and came to life.

 

[kjw47]

You've been lied to. Firstborn does not mean first created. David was the youngest son, yet scripture calls him God's Firstborn. God told Moses that Israel was His firstborn.

The firstborn of creation means preeminence. You've been lied to.

I know what it means-He was created direct-first and last, all other things created through him, making him Gods master worker.

 

[kjw47]

And you apparently believe that God allowed His Word to remain perverted from the time Christ raised Himself from the dead until 1961, when all of a sudden, your handful of guys who don't read the original language set out to "interpret" those original languages to say something completely different. He allowed all those who earnestly sought Him to read only a perverted version of the truth, He allowed His followers to fall into sin and billions of people throughout history to fall into hell because He did not allow them to see the true Scriptures. Only in 1961 did He finally open the Word. This is what you believe? Now, I asked you to post some verses from that version of the Scriptures that you believe. Where are they?

God knows the language and uses holy spirit through righteous men to correct matters. They don't need to know languages. In the early days the righteous spoke in tongues( foreign languages) yet did not know them. Holy spirit guidance is all one needs.
Bad teachings started getting in after Jesus died. God warned that the great apostasy would rise up( 2Thess 2:3) = the son of peredition. Lead by satan( 2Cor 11:12-15)--So yes satan screwed up as much as possible. It has been corrected by the JW,s via holy spirit.

 

[kjw47]

I am not equal to my boss at work. He can tell me what to do and when to do it. We're both equally human. My wife decides the priority of what needs to be cleaned in the house and when it needs to be cleaned. We're both equal partners in our marriage, and we're both equally human. A policeman can make you stop your car, restrain you and place you in a jail cell for the weekend. You're both equally human. Should I go on?

twisting matters that mean nothing about God and Jesus= 0

 

[kjw47]

He created everything that was created, the Scriptures are clear on that. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Post the three verses from your version of the Scripture, not just the one that's convenient for you.

Altered trinity translations mislead. Its proven fact. You best relook.

 

[BS Filter]

I know what it means-He was created direct-first and last, all other things created through him, making him Gods master worker.

That's what the Watchtower told you. Think. Why was Israel called "Firstborn"? Why was David called "Firstborn"? Think. Read the Scriptures.