Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?

[Divine Wind]

...But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists. It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science. Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us. The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.

More directly, you've given an opinion on why the Universe exists. There is no evidence on why it does exist.

But there is. Creation itself is the evidence.

Creation obviously exists. Now prove what created Creation.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I didn't support Gay Marriage because I don't believe governments should be in the business of defining what IS or ISN'T a marriage between two consenting adults. I think it sets a very dangerous precedent to establish legal marriage, sanctioned by government, on the basis of sexual proclivities..

I don't quite get that- since the government has been in the business of defining marriage for quite a long time before same sex couples wanted to be legally married too.

If you just oppose state controlled legal marriage- then oppose that- not just when it includes same gender couples.

I believe there is a difference between 'legal marriage' and 'religious marriage'. Some people just want the benefits from marriage (economic) while others want to make a vow to each other, their families, and their God if they so believe or choose AND have the legal advantages of marriage.

To me they can be two different things. The government doesn't care if you love each other or anything like that.... it's just a job to do.... another paper to file....

Yes, I want gays to have the same RIGHTS as a husband and wife but not under Gods law of man and woman SPIRITUALLY. Give them rights with MANS law so they are not cut off from those they love with things they bought and shared together as a couple. Just don't call it marriage. It isn't. Its a civil RIGHT. And should be. But also not force people of different faiths to be pc and say oh sure its ok when to them..its not.

That probably didn't make sense. It's the wee hours and my brain is shutting down. It made sense to me, so....there ya go!

Secular law is all we can, and should, give anyone. Let God judge from there. The whole "render unto Caesar...." thing.

I believe in God and I am frequently telling fellow believers to let secular society be secular. If Adam wants to "marry" Steve at the local courthouse, it's ok with me.

I will add that supposedly free people should be free to discriminate. If a bakery doesn't want to make a wedding cake, it should be free to deny service.

Merrily, Life Is But a Dream


"Homophobia" is a secular virtue, too. Gayists and fairyphiles know that the majority of people are not very strictly religious. Taking advantage of that, the devious deviants and their permissive enablers spin it as a Bible-banger issue. The main stream of discussion here is headed for a waterfall as the doomed canoeists smirk at those standing off on firm ground.

 

[ding]

...But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists. It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science. Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us. The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.

More directly, you've given an opinion on why the Universe exists. There is no evidence on why it does exist.

But there is. Creation itself is the evidence.

Creation obviously exists. Now prove what created Creation.

That's not what you asked. You said, there's no evidence on why it does exist. I said there is. Now you are changing it to what created Creation.

Can I use something you create as evidence? If so, what are the things I could learn from it?

 

[danielpalos]

What do you think?

If you believe you have a right to believe this, and you are offended, is it OK to voice this?

If it is about morals, then the abomination of hypocrisy, is also a sin, especially for known "and registered in a Bible, Original Sinners."

Our social Contract is about secular and temporal morals.

What is not covered by our Ten Amendments.

Consider this:

True Gamorrans and True Sodomites, make better Citizens, than False Christians.

 

[Syriusly]

Okay- i believe you are not a christian dumb ass.

Tell me more about how this progressive scum- and the millions he murdered- or wanted to murder.

View attachment 146573

You are apparently a 'partisan' student of history who has read a carefully filtered history certain not to upset your delicate sensibilities.

I actually like most of what Teddy was doing, it is his authoritarian bent that bothers me. As in all things there are progressives who are murderous swine, and there are progressives who are not. The problem is when the reasonable progressives get pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way. Those are the first people to be killed because so long as they are around they are a threat to the truly evil ones, just look at what happened to Trotsky.

Progressivism as a movement has always ended in mass murder. Not all progressives are bad, nor did I ever say that, but the philosophy is inherently authoritarian, it just needs the scumbags to get into power for the murder to begin. It doesn't always happen, but the potential is always there.

You ignore that very well known historical fact at your peril. The fascists have always used the gay community as tools as well. They use them because they are the social outcasts. Then, when they no longer have need of them they kill them. That too is well documented history, and one that I take great pains to educate my sister on. She's a lesbian you see, and like me a liberal, but she tends more towards the progressive side because she likes what they say. I have spent a great deal of time educating her to look beyond that, and to focus in on what they do..

Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians.

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.

All I can say is read some history, preferably some that is in an actual book.

The history book I am currently reading is "The Line upon a Wind"- a history of the naval war during the Napoleonic Wars.

Oddly enough this book doesn't mention Teddy Roosevelt or the mass murders that his progressivism 'inevitably' led to.

I'm reading "Six Frigates", among others, also set during the Napoleonic era and it is remarkable that the government back then, was every bit as petty and ignorant as the government today. You should read it.

Oh I am never surprised by pettiness and ignorance of men.

 

[Syriusly]

I do love it when Christians like to proclaim "But we didn't murder as many millions as you did!"

I'm not a christian dumb ass. If anything I'm a pagan seeing's how my wife is Wiccan. I am however a student of history so have read far more about what scum, like the progressives, have done compared to the religious nutters of old. Like I said cupcake, you know so little it is truly amazing.

Okay- i believe you are not a christian dumb ass.

Tell me more about how this progressive scum- and the millions he murdered- or wanted to murder.

View attachment 146573

You are apparently a 'partisan' student of history who has read a carefully filtered history certain not to upset your delicate sensibilities.

I actually like most of what Teddy was doing, it is his authoritarian bent that bothers me. As in all things there are progressives who are murderous swine, and there are progressives who are not. The problem is when the reasonable progressives get pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way. Those are the first people to be killed because so long as they are around they are a threat to the truly evil ones, just look at what happened to Trotsky.

Progressivism as a movement has always ended in mass murder. Not all progressives are bad, nor did I ever say that, but the philosophy is inherently authoritarian, it just needs the scumbags to get into power for the murder to begin. It doesn't always happen, but the potential is always there.

You ignore that very well known historical fact at your peril. The fascists have always used the gay community as tools as well. They use them because they are the social outcasts. Then, when they no longer have need of them they kill them. That too is well documented history, and one that I take great pains to educate my sister on. She's a lesbian you see, and like me a liberal, but she tends more towards the progressive side because she likes what they say. I have spent a great deal of time educating her to look beyond that, and to focus in on what they do..

Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians.

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.

No It has been that way for the last 2000 years. Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state. Every socialist movement has had a free love movement going all the way back to the Cathars and beyond.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

Wow- an obscure publication from 1975.

And pointing out the Cathars- victims of a genocidal campaign by the Catholic church- which murdered men, women and children in order to stamp it out.

Particularly fascinating that you selected a religious movement as an example of a 'socialist' movement that 'sought to subordinate religion'

It was not the socialists who moved to criminalize homosexuality in America. It was Christians.

 

[Syriusly]

I am not confused.

There are tons of posters here at USMB who have posted their hatred of people because they are gay- hell Tipsy has even applauded ISIS for killing gay people.

You've cited one poster but the fact remains you are still confused; your own postings throughout are a testament to that fact.

Your reading comprehension problem is not the result of any confusion on my part.

It is not my reading comprehension. You believe that as an atheist you can tell another who is a believer what they believe in according to 'your' precepts. In that alone you are the one that is confused.

No- again your reading comprehension is the problem.

As I said- and I am glad to stand by it- It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

For being gay.

Prove me wrong if you can.

And again I have read many of your other posts and you talk about something you know nothing about when it comes to your precepts. You have the gall to tell other people what you perceive about the written word of God without knowledge as you base your opinions on your personal precepts.

If they despise your lifestyle because they believe it is wrong that is their prerogative. That still doesn't mean it is hatred that fuels their emotions or beliefs. It is your problem if you are an atheist and a gay not theirs.

LOL. How is it my 'problem' that I am an atheist? I am fine with not believing in any fairies in the sky.

Tell me more about my 'lifestyle'......because you have read so many of my other posts and think you know so much about me.....lol

 

[Syriusly]

...But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists. It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science. Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us. The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.

More directly, you've given an opinion on why the Universe exists. There is no evidence on why it does exist.

But there is. Creation itself is the evidence.

LOL

 

[ding]

I'm not a christian dumb ass. If anything I'm a pagan seeing's how my wife is Wiccan. I am however a student of history so have read far more about what scum, like the progressives, have done compared to the religious nutters of old. Like I said cupcake, you know so little it is truly amazing.

Okay- i believe you are not a christian dumb ass.

Tell me more about how this progressive scum- and the millions he murdered- or wanted to murder.

View attachment 146573

You are apparently a 'partisan' student of history who has read a carefully filtered history certain not to upset your delicate sensibilities.

I actually like most of what Teddy was doing, it is his authoritarian bent that bothers me. As in all things there are progressives who are murderous swine, and there are progressives who are not. The problem is when the reasonable progressives get pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way. Those are the first people to be killed because so long as they are around they are a threat to the truly evil ones, just look at what happened to Trotsky.

Progressivism as a movement has always ended in mass murder. Not all progressives are bad, nor did I ever say that, but the philosophy is inherently authoritarian, it just needs the scumbags to get into power for the murder to begin. It doesn't always happen, but the potential is always there.

You ignore that very well known historical fact at your peril. The fascists have always used the gay community as tools as well. They use them because they are the social outcasts. Then, when they no longer have need of them they kill them. That too is well documented history, and one that I take great pains to educate my sister on. She's a lesbian you see, and like me a liberal, but she tends more towards the progressive side because she likes what they say. I have spent a great deal of time educating her to look beyond that, and to focus in on what they do..

Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians.

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.

No It has been that way for the last 2000 years. Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state. Every socialist movement has had a free love movement going all the way back to the Cathars and beyond.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

Wow- an obscure publication from 1975.

And pointing out the Cathars- victims of a genocidal campaign by the Catholic church- which murdered men, women and children in order to stamp it out.

Particularly fascinating that you selected a religious movement as an example of a 'socialist' movement that 'sought to subordinate religion'

It was not the socialists who moved to criminalize homosexuality in America. It was Christians.

Nope. The most thorough and comprehensive analysis of the calculus of socialism that has ever been done. One that has never been refuted.

Absolutely, religions which were based on socialism attempted to subordinate the dominant religion of the day. No different than today except it is the religion of atheism which is doing it.

 

[ding]

...But to answer your question more directly, I have given you an explanation for why the universe exists. It is a philosophical answer based on philosophy and science. Specifically, the science around the evolution of matter and what that tells us. The answer to why the universe had a beginning is because that is what was required by the laws of nature for a universe to exist and serve its purpose which is to create intelligence.

More directly, you've given an opinion on why the Universe exists. There is no evidence on why it does exist.

But there is. Creation itself is the evidence.

LOL

Can I take something you have created and use it as evidence? If so, what can I learn from it?

 

[Syriusly]

I am not confused.

There are tons of posters here at USMB who have posted their hatred of people because they are gay- hell Tipsy has even applauded ISIS for killing gay people.

You've cited one poster but the fact remains you are still confused; your own postings throughout are a testament to that fact.

Your reading comprehension problem is not the result of any confusion on my part.

It is not my reading comprehension. You believe that as an atheist you can tell another who is a believer what they believe in according to 'your' precepts. In that alone you are the one that is confused.

No- again your reading comprehension is the problem.

As I said- and I am glad to stand by it- It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

For being gay.

Prove me wrong if you can.

Prove most posters who post negatively against gays despise gays. I'll give you a few days to collect your thoughts.....then never see you post any evidence. .

Please- if you want to challenge me- at least try to be honest enough to use my actual words- rather than make up things I have said.

Here is what I said:
It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

I challenged all of you to prove me wrong.

Off the top of my head- without evening straining- that includes Stevie the Racist, Tipsy- but I will be glad to share some of the posts of the members of USMB who have cheered the deaths of gays on, or who have suggested that the proper course for gays is to hope that they all die, or are killed- see my signature for that lovely sentiment from Tipsy.

 

[Syriusly]

Okay- i believe you are not a christian dumb ass.

Tell me more about how this progressive scum- and the millions he murdered- or wanted to murder.

View attachment 146573

You are apparently a 'partisan' student of history who has read a carefully filtered history certain not to upset your delicate sensibilities.

I actually like most of what Teddy was doing, it is his authoritarian bent that bothers me. As in all things there are progressives who are murderous swine, and there are progressives who are not. The problem is when the reasonable progressives get pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way. Those are the first people to be killed because so long as they are around they are a threat to the truly evil ones, just look at what happened to Trotsky.

Progressivism as a movement has always ended in mass murder. Not all progressives are bad, nor did I ever say that, but the philosophy is inherently authoritarian, it just needs the scumbags to get into power for the murder to begin. It doesn't always happen, but the potential is always there.

You ignore that very well known historical fact at your peril. The fascists have always used the gay community as tools as well. They use them because they are the social outcasts. Then, when they no longer have need of them they kill them. That too is well documented history, and one that I take great pains to educate my sister on. She's a lesbian you see, and like me a liberal, but she tends more towards the progressive side because she likes what they say. I have spent a great deal of time educating her to look beyond that, and to focus in on what they do..

Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians.

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.

No It has been that way for the last 2000 years. Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state. Every socialist movement has had a free love movement going all the way back to the Cathars and beyond.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

Wow- an obscure publication from 1975.

And pointing out the Cathars- victims of a genocidal campaign by the Catholic church- which murdered men, women and children in order to stamp it out.

Particularly fascinating that you selected a religious movement as an example of a 'socialist' movement that 'sought to subordinate religion'

It was not the socialists who moved to criminalize homosexuality in America. It was Christians.

Nope. The most thorough and comprehensive analysis of the calculus of socialism that has ever been done. One that has never been refuted.

Absolutely, religions which were based on socialism attempted to subordinate the dominant religion of the day. No different than today except it is the religion of atheism which is doing it.

'dominant religion of the day'- lol

This is what you claimed;
Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state.

The Cathars rejected Catholicism- not religion. They put loyalty to God before loyalty to the Catholic Church- and remember the Catholic Church demanded loyalty to it before country or family.

The Cathars put loyalty to god before any state- which is why so many Cathars died rather than accept the imposition by the Catholic Death squads on the Cathar communities.

That you choice the Cathars as an example of the supposed proof of socialism objection to god.......when the Cathars were wiped out- slaughtered by Christians because of the Cathars religious beliefs....well just shows your own ignorance.

By the way- the author of your volume on Socialism rather glosses over how Catharism ended- not mentioning even one of the massacres of the Cathars by the Christian death squads.

Almost like he has an agenda.

 

[ding]

I actually like most of what Teddy was doing, it is his authoritarian bent that bothers me. As in all things there are progressives who are murderous swine, and there are progressives who are not. The problem is when the reasonable progressives get pushed out so that the real assholes can get their way. Those are the first people to be killed because so long as they are around they are a threat to the truly evil ones, just look at what happened to Trotsky.

Progressivism as a movement has always ended in mass murder. Not all progressives are bad, nor did I ever say that, but the philosophy is inherently authoritarian, it just needs the scumbags to get into power for the murder to begin. It doesn't always happen, but the potential is always there.

You ignore that very well known historical fact at your peril. The fascists have always used the gay community as tools as well. They use them because they are the social outcasts. Then, when they no longer have need of them they kill them. That too is well documented history, and one that I take great pains to educate my sister on. She's a lesbian you see, and like me a liberal, but she tends more towards the progressive side because she likes what they say. I have spent a great deal of time educating her to look beyond that, and to focus in on what they do..

Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians.

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.

No It has been that way for the last 2000 years. Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state. Every socialist movement has had a free love movement going all the way back to the Cathars and beyond.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

Wow- an obscure publication from 1975.

And pointing out the Cathars- victims of a genocidal campaign by the Catholic church- which murdered men, women and children in order to stamp it out.

Particularly fascinating that you selected a religious movement as an example of a 'socialist' movement that 'sought to subordinate religion'

It was not the socialists who moved to criminalize homosexuality in America. It was Christians.

Nope. The most thorough and comprehensive analysis of the calculus of socialism that has ever been done. One that has never been refuted.

Absolutely, religions which were based on socialism attempted to subordinate the dominant religion of the day. No different than today except it is the religion of atheism which is doing it.

'dominant religion of the day'- lol

This is what you claimed;
Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state.

The Cathars rejected Catholicism- not religion. They put loyalty to God before loyalty to the Catholic Church- and remember the Catholic Church demanded loyalty to it before country or family.

The Cathars put loyalty to god before any state- which is why so many Cathars died rather than accept the imposition by the Catholic Death squads on the Cathar communities.

That you choice the Cathars as an example of the supposed proof of socialism objection to god.......when the Cathars were wiped out- slaughtered by Christians because of the Cathars religious beliefs....well just shows your own ignorance.

Obviously, you don't know anything about the Cathars.

 

[K9Buck]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm not a socialist and I'm not religious. I'm actually quite conservative with many of my beliefs and I would never EVER vote for a leftist, so I don't fall into your little "boxes." Suckers are ones who fall for cons and lies and make believe fantasies. I find religion to be just as convincing as transgenderism.

 

[BreezeWood]

All we know is that space and time began at the Big Bang. Current evidence points strongly to a "Big Chill" end to the Universe, death by entropy, not a "Big Crunch" AKA Oscillating Universe as previously postulated.

there are other options for compaction, matter in unison will return to its origin, the previous Singularity, without ever changing direction traversing in expansion at a finite angle trajectory, to recompact creating a new Singularity proving BB a cyclical event not related to time.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't understand why religious people are not more outraged by infidelity/adultery. That is one sin that is included in the Ten Commandments, makes a "mockery" out of marriage, and is breaking an actual vow or oath to your God.

 

[westwall]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

Not at all. There is neither evidence for, nor against a "creator". That's why it is called "faith".

 

[Moonglow]

Please tell me more about how the 'fascists' use the gay community as tools as well.

Because looking at the history of the United States- the ones who made the laws that criminalized homosexuality were Christians- elected Christians.

So far your 'well documented' history is pretty much just you saying it is.

No It has been that way for the last 2000 years. Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state. Every socialist movement has had a free love movement going all the way back to the Cathars and beyond.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

Wow- an obscure publication from 1975.

And pointing out the Cathars- victims of a genocidal campaign by the Catholic church- which murdered men, women and children in order to stamp it out.

Particularly fascinating that you selected a religious movement as an example of a 'socialist' movement that 'sought to subordinate religion'

It was not the socialists who moved to criminalize homosexuality in America. It was Christians.

Nope. The most thorough and comprehensive analysis of the calculus of socialism that has ever been done. One that has never been refuted.

Absolutely, religions which were based on socialism attempted to subordinate the dominant religion of the day. No different than today except it is the religion of atheism which is doing it.

'dominant religion of the day'- lol

This is what you claimed;
Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion. They seek to replace loyalty to God, Country and Family with loyalty to state.

The Cathars rejected Catholicism- not religion. They put loyalty to God before loyalty to the Catholic Church- and remember the Catholic Church demanded loyalty to it before country or family.

The Cathars put loyalty to god before any state- which is why so many Cathars died rather than accept the imposition by the Catholic Death squads on the Cathar communities.

That you choice the Cathars as an example of the supposed proof of socialism objection to god.......when the Cathars were wiped out- slaughtered by Christians because of the Cathars religious beliefs....well just shows your own ignorance.

Obviously, you don't know anything about the Cathars.

You are aware of what gnostic is in the Christian religion and how the papacy spent hundreds of years destroying any competition to their realm of control?

 

[Moonglow]

Did Gods place the bacteria on Mars that have been found too? Or did it just appear there naturally? Diamonds are created out of coal, all natural processes. No Gods are involved. I'm sure at one time people probably thought that Gods created diamonds.

Education has likely worked against religion: all these fantastic stories of arks and whales and burning bushes and miracles sold much better to the uneducated.

Actually, and as this thread demonstrates, the preponderance of the evidence is for a creator. It is the uneducated and willfully ignorant atheists that are the suckers.

The question resonates on which kind of creator since more than one is on the books...