Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?

[Sixties Fan]

Your post amounts to:

Principle #1 -- If you are attacked you are an idiot not to shoot back.

Principle #2 -- Only direct threats to your life permit lethal force.

Principle #3 -- Israel has a policy of shooting all Palestinians based solely on their "Palestinianness".


I agree with your Principle #1. It is the foundation of the moral and legal idea of self-defense. If someone attacks you, you are an idiot not to shoot back. So the dispute we would have is whether or not Israel is "really" being attacked.

You are not being attacked if no one is hurt, injured or killed. You are not being attacked if your border fence is on someone else's property. You are not being attacked, if you have a buffer zone that is on someone else's property. Burning a tire, is not an attack. A peaceful protest, is not an attack. Throwing a rock, is not a threat to your life, or your fence.

Snipers shooting people in cold blood, is an attack. Drones dropping fire bombs on tents, is an attack. Shooting tear gas at babies, is an attack. Shooting people fishing and farming, is an attack. Collectively punishing 1.5 million people, is an attack.

I agree somewhat less in your Principle #2. I believe it is permissible to use force to protect not only direct, immediate threats to one's own life, but also to protect and defend other's lives and against threats to other's lives. So the dispute we would have is whether there is a credible threat to Israeli lives.

Wrong! It has to be an imminent threat to your life, before deadly force is permissible. Making up bullshit reasons to kill people, is just pure evil. You make such a fine German.

There is also the argument that it is legally and morally permissible to defend one's sovereign territory from an invader. You seem to believe that Gaza has every right to not only defend itself from an invader ("occupier"). Israel should have the same rights, but you persist in saying that "occupiers" have no right to defend themselves. Which is bullshit.

You are not defending yourself when you occupy someone else's property. You are initiating the violence.

Your Principle #3 is just an immoral demonization of Israel. And a blatant rejection of reality. Israel has done an exceptional job of being extremely precise (not perfect) of only killing those who pose an immediate threat to life or to sovereignty.

Is a guy in a wheel chair a threat to your life, or Israeli sovereignty? Is an 8 month old baby, a threat to your life, or Israeli sovereignty? Is someone fishing or farming, a threat to your life, or Israeli sovereignty?

Just shut up. You are so full of crap. We've pointed out a dozen times, if you are stupid enough to bring a child into a military area, where people are throwing pipe bombs, then it's you. No excuses. Sorry, keep talking and keep being wrong.

Even rodents take their young away from danger, not towards it. If you have less morals than a rodent, then you deserve to die.

Let us all just ignore him. Nothing better when dealing with a bully.

 

[Billo_Really]

Keep dreaming up your excuses, Billo.

They work only in your mind.

Are you saying there is no buffer zone?

 

[Billo_Really]

That’s pretty darn funny. Embracing American values is defined by embracing Islamic terrorist values.

Otherwise, there’s nothing undefined about the Israeli border. It’s defended by a military force which would not allow your Islamic terrorist heroes to breach.

It’s really remarkable how you internet gee-had wannabes are so quick to emulate your hamas terrorist “leadership”. You’re very quick to urge the vacant-minded minions to “take one for your man-god, Muhammud”, but both you and the Hamas leadership are nowhere to be seen when the in-coming starts.

How much jihad are you facing in the Valley............Girl?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Keep dreaming up your excuses, Billo.

They work only in your mind.

Are you saying there is no buffer zone?

You are so cute at playing your games. They are meaningless.

You say nothing. And is deserving of no more answers.

Your games are empty.

Delegitimizing anything that Israel does to protect its territory and population is all you and Tinmore are about.

You dream your dreams, Israel continues to defend its reality.



Am Israel Chai !

 

[Billo_Really]

Your empty words continue to be meaningless. You live in an alternative world and that is your business, not Israel's.

Israel will continue to do what it needs to protect all of its population from those who want to kill them.

Here is why the added buffer zone exists. Ask Egypt why they had to add a buffer zone and even increase it later.
-----

The barrier was largely torn down by Palestinians at the beginning of the Al-Aqsa Intifada in September 2000, followed by many terror attacks.[6] The barrier was rebuilt between December 2000 and June 2001. A one-kilometer buffer zone was added, in addition to new high technology observation posts. Soldiers were also given new rules of engagement,[6] which, according to Ha'aretz, allow soldiers to fire at anyone seen crawling there at night illegally into Israeli territory.[7] Palestinians attempting to cross the barrier into Israel by stealth have been shot and killed.[8]

The barrier's effectiveness prompted a shift in the tactics of Palestinian militants who commenced firing Qassam rockets and mortars over the barrier.[6][9]

The barrier has been effective in preventing terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.[10][11] From 1994 until 2004 a suicide bomber originating from within the Gaza Strip successfully carried out an attack in Israel (the March 14, 2004 attack in Ashdod).[12]

Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia

You just got done saying the buffer zone was just my imagination, running away with me?

Man, you waffle more than IHOP!

 

[Hollie]

Keep dreaming up your excuses, Billo.

They work only in your mind.

Are you saying there is no buffer zone?

It’s actually an Islamic terrorist get-some zone.

Grab your Korans and a Molotov cocktail and be the zone.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

Undefined border.... and yet there is a big fence.... which seems to define a border.

You realize of course, the whole reason there is a border, is because the Gaza people were killing Isrealis.

Let me give your tiny little brain, a theoretical..... do you think if Mexicans were rushing into the US, killing people, that we'd have a wall along the border years, if not decades ago?

Yes we would. And we'd be shooting people who tried to breach the border. Guarantee it.

So why do you have a problem with Israel taking a much more restrained approach? Because your a dirty terrorist supporting trash of a human being. Simple as that.

Americans believe in the rule of law, Israel does not.

 

[Billo_Really]

You have the right to be an ignorant fool who is consistently wrong.

As for trying to shoot me, come try it. Fool. If this is the best argument you have for supporting terrorist, then you have no argument. Keep talking fool.

I'll put it another way, if you are shooting someone else, do they have a right to kill you?

 

[Hollie]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

Undefined border.... and yet there is a big fence.... which seems to define a border.

You realize of course, the whole reason there is a border, is because the Gaza people were killing Isrealis.

Let me give your tiny little brain, a theoretical..... do you think if Mexicans were rushing into the US, killing people, that we'd have a wall along the border years, if not decades ago?

Yes we would. And we'd be shooting people who tried to breach the border. Guarantee it.

So why do you have a problem with Israel taking a much more restrained approach? Because your a dirty terrorist supporting trash of a human being. Simple as that.

Americans believe in the rule of law, Israel does not.

I can go 2/5 for pointless melodrama.

 

[Billo_Really]

Just shut up. You are so full of crap. We've pointed out a dozen times, if you are stupid enough to bring a child into a military area, where people are throwing pipe bombs, then it's you. No excuses. Sorry, keep talking and keep being wrong.

Even rodents take their young away from danger, not towards it. If you have less morals than a rodent, then you deserve to die.

Americans believe in freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Values you apparently eschew.

 

[Billo_Really]

You are a nutcase who only repeats the Hamas side of it.

You have proven that you do not care who these people are, why they went to the protest, how they came to die, etc.

You can bring up the wheelchair bound man who wanted to die for martyrdom (Islam is all about keeping land or becoming a Martyr, at least the Palestinians have been since the Jews recreated their ancient homeland Nation. Never did it against the Ottoman Turkish Muslims. One wonders why ),
or the 8 month old, who should not have been brought to the protest and Gaza doctors themselves say they do not know what it died of, as it had a health issue to begin with......ALL you want.

You are totally against any Israel defense against anyone attacking its sovereignty, so you latch on to all of these excuses of people who are not doing what they have been doing as first announced. Protest peacefully.


Peaceful protest do not require the police or army to do anything, because the people are just marching, singing, dancing, holding signs, etc.


Violent protests (which is what Hamas planned as they took over the March) is hurling rocks, molotov cocktails, plant explosives, breach the fence and enter a country's sovereign territory carrying machetes and other weapons.

Play all of the cards you like.

Israel will continue to protect its borders the best way it knows how. And all the decent people in the world know that Israeli soldiers to not shoot at will.

These people didn't just "die". They were murdered in cold blood by the most immoral army in the world.

 

[Billo_Really]

Let us all just ignore him. Nothing better when dealing with a bully.

I'm told I "deserve to die", yet you call me the bully?

 

[Sixties Fan]

You are a nutcase who only repeats the Hamas side of it.

You have proven that you do not care who these people are, why they went to the protest, how they came to die, etc.

You can bring up the wheelchair bound man who wanted to die for martyrdom (Islam is all about keeping land or becoming a Martyr, at least the Palestinians have been since the Jews recreated their ancient homeland Nation. Never did it against the Ottoman Turkish Muslims. One wonders why ),
or the 8 month old, who should not have been brought to the protest and Gaza doctors themselves say they do not know what it died of, as it had a health issue to begin with......ALL you want.

You are totally against any Israel defense against anyone attacking its sovereignty, so you latch on to all of these excuses of people who are not doing what they have been doing as first announced. Protest peacefully.


Peaceful protest do not require the police or army to do anything, because the people are just marching, singing, dancing, holding signs, etc.


Violent protests (which is what Hamas planned as they took over the March) is hurling rocks, molotov cocktails, plant explosives, breach the fence and enter a country's sovereign territory carrying machetes and other weapons.

Play all of the cards you like.

Israel will continue to protect its borders the best way it knows how. And all the decent people in the world know that Israeli soldiers to not shoot at will.

These people didn't just "die". They were murdered in cold blood by the most immoral army in the world.

While planting explosives at the fence, shooting AK-47 rifles into Israel, throwing molotov cocktails, sending incendiary kites, and kite-bombs into Israeli territory.

Sure....The UK, USA, Canada, even Mexico would just allow all of these things to happen and simply call it "Peaceful demonstration.

 

[Billo_Really]

You are so cute at playing your games. They are meaningless.

You say nothing. And is deserving of no more answers.

Your games are empty.

Delegitimizing anything that Israel does to protect its territory and population is all you and Tinmore are about.

You dream your dreams, Israel continues to defend its reality.



Am Israel Chai !

You are not protecting your property, when on someone else's land.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Just shut up. You are so full of crap. We've pointed out a dozen times, if you are stupid enough to bring a child into a military area, where people are throwing pipe bombs, then it's you. No excuses. Sorry, keep talking and keep being wrong.

Even rodents take their young away from danger, not towards it. If you have less morals than a rodent, then you deserve to die.

Let us all just ignore him. Nothing better when dealing with a bully.

I'm told I "deserve to die", yet you call me the bully?[/QUOTE]
Pathetic Billo, who said YOU deserve to die on this thread?

We have witnessed many times how you change what people have said to suit what you want people to believe.

Give me the post where anyone said YOU deserved to die.

tick tock

 

[Billo_Really]

It’s actually an Islamic terrorist get-some zone.

Grab your Korans and a Molotov cocktail and be the zone.

I like it. You get one half point for creativity.

 

[Hollie]

You are a nutcase who only repeats the Hamas side of it.

You have proven that you do not care who these people are, why they went to the protest, how they came to die, etc.

You can bring up the wheelchair bound man who wanted to die for martyrdom (Islam is all about keeping land or becoming a Martyr, at least the Palestinians have been since the Jews recreated their ancient homeland Nation. Never did it against the Ottoman Turkish Muslims. One wonders why ),
or the 8 month old, who should not have been brought to the protest and Gaza doctors themselves say they do not know what it died of, as it had a health issue to begin with......ALL you want.

You are totally against any Israel defense against anyone attacking its sovereignty, so you latch on to all of these excuses of people who are not doing what they have been doing as first announced. Protest peacefully.


Peaceful protest do not require the police or army to do anything, because the people are just marching, singing, dancing, holding signs, etc.


Violent protests (which is what Hamas planned as they took over the March) is hurling rocks, molotov cocktails, plant explosives, breach the fence and enter a country's sovereign territory carrying machetes and other weapons.

Play all of the cards you like.

Israel will continue to protect its borders the best way it knows how. And all the decent people in the world know that Israeli soldiers to not shoot at will.

These people didn't just "die". They were murdered in cold blood by the most immoral army in the world.

Actually, there is nothing to indicate any Islamics were killed in cold blood.

You’re getting rather frantic and have been reduced to hurling some rather nonsensical claims.

Maybe a nice hot cup of tea and a relaxing coma?

 

[Billo_Really]

I can go 2/5 for pointless melodrama.

I thought you were ignoring me? So you even lied about that?

 

[Sixties Fan]

You are so cute at playing your games. They are meaningless.

You say nothing. And is deserving of no more answers.

Your games are empty.

Delegitimizing anything that Israel does to protect its territory and population is all you and Tinmore are about.

You dream your dreams, Israel continues to defend its reality.



Am Israel Chai !

You are not protecting your property, when on someone else's land.

The soldiers are on the Israeli side. The Fence is on the Israeli side.

Try another delusion of yours as to what Israeli, and only Israeli soldiers are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do to defend any invasion by those who want to kill Israelis.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I can go 2/5 for pointless melodrama.

I thought you were ignoring me? So you even lied about that?

More drama from the "Lover of Israel "