Is It Time For Israel To Give Up It's Nukes?

[Liability]

O K. Then it should be a snap for Israel to show the world they have no nukes by providing proof of the enriched plutonium they have made from the type of reactors they use for electrical power. No such thing as a grey area in nukes. Either they have it stored as waste or made into bombs. They should be able to account for all enriched plutonium down to one gram.

Problem solved. Israel has no nukes?... Fine That makes it CLEAR that Iran is the bad actor. Problem defined.

Maybe they DO have nukes.

But, why on Earth they'd want to do or say anything to confirm any such thing for their numerous deadly enemies is kind of an imponderable.

Right...let's not dare do any "pondering". Cuz not pondering is working out so well in the area.

I said zip, zero, zilch about not pondering.

What I said was that there is no valid rational coherent logical intelligent discernible reason for Israel to either confirm or deny the claim that they have nukes.

 

[007]

Israel isn't trying to defend the whole ******* world from assholes like the U S is. Hell!.. they don't even send troops in to help fight the wars that are supposedly fought on thier behalf like our war with Iraq.

Israel didn't send troops because we asked them not to. When Saddam threw scud missiles into Israel, Israel did not respond - because we asked them not to. Israel is a small country, armed to the teeth - because they are surrounded by people like Sunni Man - who would like to see their country cease to exist.

In this thread, you admit you 'don't have all the facts'... none of us do.... which is why it's really not very smart to assert that Israel should disarm. In their situation, would you risk the lives of very single Israeli in the hope that these ******* whackjobs that surround you won't attack you? Particularly when you have a US President who seems to prefer your enemies?

Relax Sugar Tits! Lay back and enjoy it. This is just a discussion...not the real thing.. Silly me... I believe the nuke problem in the mid east has many un answered questions and with that lack of information...no good solutions or outcomes.

If we cannot talk about nuclear annihalation in the mid east...the terrorists have won!

"Sugar tits"...

 

[Dot Com]

Is this true? I remember about a test in the Southern oceans that couldn't be confirmed:
Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons | World news | The Guardian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

 

[Dr.House]

Israel has the right to defend herself. Period.

Some people just can't accept that.

Tough shit.

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

Tough tittie since the cow went dry!

Now what?

I hope they both "defend" each other till the whole area is radioactive glass.

When Iran only wants to defend itself you may have a point...

You currently don't have a point...

 

[editec]

Israel has the right to defend herself. Period.

Some people just can't accept that.

Tough shit.

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

Tough tittie since the cow went dry!

Now what?

I hope they both "defend" each other till the whole area is radioactive glass.

You'll have to remind me -- what nations are surrounding Iran and calling for its destruction because their god told them all Persians must die?

You'll have to remind me...what nations are surrounding the USA and calling for its destruction?

 

[Dr.House]

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

Tough tittie since the cow went dry!

Now what?

I hope they both "defend" each other till the whole area is radioactive glass.

You'll have to remind me -- what nations are surrounding Iran and calling for its destruction because their god told them all Persians must die?

You'll have to remind me...what nations are surrounding the USA and calling for its destruction?

There are nations who have not always been our buddies that don't need to surround us to threaten us...

Ignoring that would be foolish...

 

[HUGGY]

Israel has the right to defend herself. Period.

Some people just can't accept that.

Tough shit.

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

Tough tittie since the cow went dry!

Now what?

I hope they both "defend" each other till the whole area is radioactive glass.

When Iran only wants to defend itself you may have a point...

You currently don't have a point...

Right...Iran, one of the worlds oldest civilizations on the planet, has decided to pre emtively attack Israel with nukes thereby commiting suicide in the process.

And with Irans perpensity to attack it's neighbors...at every opportunity..

Don't you ever enter a thread without playing the stupid card?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Maybe I'm missing something but WHY does Israel have nukes again?

Am I naive in thinking that Iran wants nukes only because Israel is constantly threatening them and THEY have nukes?

Wouldn't it be WAY easier to convince Iran to abandon nuclear weapons if Israel abandoned thiers?

Just WHO does Israel think they can nuke without impunity anyway?

Your thoughts?

If Israel has nukes, it has them for the same reasons other countries have them, as a last line of defense in the event the country is in danger of being overrun and as a possible deterrent to attacks. Arguably, Israel has a greater need for nukies than any of the other nuclear powers, since if the others lost a war they would be unlikely to be overrun by the enemy, but the 7,500,000 Israelis are surrounded by 500,000,000 Arabs and Iranians who would certainly erase the Jewish nation from the map if they could.

Despite the fact that Iran has been carrying out terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians through its Arab proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, for decades, Israel never attacked or threatened to attack Iran because of this. Israel's threats have been exclusively against Iran's nuclear weapons programs because of Iran's frequent threats to destroy the Jewish nation. Without nukes, Iran could not carry out its ambition to destroy the Jewish state, but with nukes and effective missiles, which it already has, it could literally wipe Israel off the map and there is reason to think it would despite that threat of an Israeli retaliatory nuclear strike against Iran.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

Analysts said not only Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani’s speech was the strongest against Israel, but also this is the first time that a prominent leader of the Islamic Republic openly suggests the use of nuclear weapon against the Jewish State.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAL

Before the Islamists took over in 1979, Israel and Iran had friendly relations, and even after the 1979 Islamist takeover, when Iran was in danger of being overrun by Iraq, Israel sold Iran, with US permission, thousands of Tow and Hawk missiles to stop Saddam's tanks and planes at a time when no other country in the world would sell Iran advanced weapons.

But Iran is not a rational actor. Its enmity towards Israel derives entirely from the fact that Israel is a Jewish nation. Given the horrific repression of dissent, or even of independent thinking, that has been going on in Iran since the revolution and the regularity with which Muslim nations in the region carry out atrocities against their own citizens or attack and ravage neighboring countries, it is clear that if Israel were a Muslim country the criticisms Iran and other Islamic extremists level against it would not even raise an Ayatollah's eyebrow.

 

[Dr.House]

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

Tough tittie since the cow went dry!

Now what?

I hope they both "defend" each other till the whole area is radioactive glass.

When Iran only wants to defend itself you may have a point...

You currently don't have a point...

Right...Iran, one of the worlds oldest civilizations on the planet, has decided to pre emtively attack Israel with nukes thereby commiting suicide in the process.

And with Irans perpensity to attack it's neighbors...at every opportunity..

Don't you ever enter a thread without playing the stupid card?

Your low IQ is evident when you post anything other than YouTubez...

You can pretend Iran is just defending it's soil if you want... I cannot stop you from looking like a ******* idiot...

I'd suggest doing some reading to educate yourself, but we both know that your attention span wouldn't allow it...

 

[daveman]

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

Tough tittie since the cow went dry!

Now what?

I hope they both "defend" each other till the whole area is radioactive glass.

You'll have to remind me -- what nations are surrounding Iran and calling for its destruction because their god told them all Persians must die?

You'll have to remind me...what nations are surrounding the USA and calling for its destruction?

Remember the Cold War? It was in all the papers. That's why we developed our nuclear arsenal.

 

[HUGGY]

Maybe they DO have nukes.

But, why on Earth they'd want to do or say anything to confirm any such thing for their numerous deadly enemies is kind of an imponderable.

Right...let's not dare do any "pondering". Cuz not pondering is working out so well in the area.

I said zip, zero, zilch about not pondering.

What I said was that there is no valid rational coherent logical intelligent discernible reason for Israel to either confirm or deny the claim that they have nukes.

Ya..if it not for the obvious fact that Iran is going on the assumtion that Israel HAS nukes irrespective of the fascinating "mind games" put forward by the Jews. Thier "clever" strategy may well get them all cooked into radioactive dust. Iran is reported to be digging deep into the ground to construct nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities well below the ability of any known bombs to penetrate.

Only a total fool ignores where this is heading.

Pre emtive bombing of Iran in hopes of destroying it's capabilities looks like it will only piss them off and give them REAL justification to carry out a threat to nuke Israel. -

And to HouseGimp..I am not "defending" Iran. I could not care less about muslims..Persian or otherwise.

 

[Dr.House]

Dumb Little Diaper Dude...

In your own words...

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

 

[HUGGY]

Dumb Little Diaper Dude...

In your own words...

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

You are an idiot. Try posting the whole post and the whole one I replied to. But that would be honest...which you are not. Or just go away. You add nothing to the conversation.

 

[Dot Com]

Maybe I'm missing something but WHY does Israel have nukes again?

Am I naive in thinking that Iran wants nukes only because Israel is constantly threatening them and THEY have nukes?

Wouldn't it be WAY easier to convince Iran to abandon nuclear weapons if Israel abandoned thiers?

Just WHO does Israel think they can nuke without impunity anyway?

Your thoughts?

If Israel has nukes, it has them for the same reasons other countries have them, as a last line of defense in the event the country is in danger of being overrun and as a possible deterrent to attacks. Arguably, Israel has a greater need for nukies than any of the other nuclear powers, since if the others lost a war they would be unlikely to be overrun by the enemy, but the 7,500,000 Israelis are surrounded by 500,000,000 Arabs and Iranians who would certainly erase the Jewish nation from the map if they could.

Despite the fact that Iran has been carrying out terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians through its Arab proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, for decades, Israel never attacked or threatened to attack Iran because of this. Israel's threats have been exclusively against Iran's nuclear weapons programs because of Iran's frequent threats to destroy the Jewish nation. Without nukes, Iran could not carry out its ambition to destroy the Jewish state, but with nukes and effective missiles, which it already has, it could literally wipe Israel off the map and there is reason to think it would despite that threat of an Israeli retaliatory nuclear strike against Iran.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

Analysts said not only Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani’s speech was the strongest against Israel, but also this is the first time that a prominent leader of the Islamic Republic openly suggests the use of nuclear weapon against the Jewish State.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAL

Before the Islamists took over in 1979, Israel and Iran had friendly relations, and even after the 1979 Islamist takeover, when Iran was in danger of being overrun by Iraq, Israel sold Iran, with US permission, thousands of Tow and Hawk missiles to stop Saddam's tanks and planes at a time when no other country in the world would sell Iran advanced weapons.

But Iran is not a rational actor. Its enmity towards Israel derives entirely from the fact that Israel is a Jewish nation. Given the horrific repression of dissent, or even of independent thinking, that has been going on in Iran since the revolution and the regularity with which Muslim nations in the region carry out atrocities against their own citizens or attack and ravage neighboring countries, it is clear that if Israel were a Muslim country the criticisms Iran and other Islamic extremists level against it would not even raise an Ayatollah's eyebrow.

do you think the Iranians want Palestine to be uninhabitable like Chernobyl Thats what a nuclear strike would do. They want Palestinians and other indigenous peoples to be able to live there side-by-side like they were prior to the "creation" of modern Israel.

 

[Dot Com]

Dumb Little Diaper Dude...

In your own words...

Iran has the right to defend itself..PERIOD!

Some people can't accept that.

You are an idiot. Try posting the whole post and the whole one I replied to. But that would be honest...which you are not. Or just go away. You add nothing to the conversation.

Has HouseGimp ever added anything to a conversation

 

[toomuchtime_]

Maybe I'm missing something but WHY does Israel have nukes again?

Am I naive in thinking that Iran wants nukes only because Israel is constantly threatening them and THEY have nukes?

Wouldn't it be WAY easier to convince Iran to abandon nuclear weapons if Israel abandoned thiers?

Just WHO does Israel think they can nuke without impunity anyway?

Your thoughts?

If Israel has nukes, it has them for the same reasons other countries have them, as a last line of defense in the event the country is in danger of being overrun and as a possible deterrent to attacks. Arguably, Israel has a greater need for nukies than any of the other nuclear powers, since if the others lost a war they would be unlikely to be overrun by the enemy, but the 7,500,000 Israelis are surrounded by 500,000,000 Arabs and Iranians who would certainly erase the Jewish nation from the map if they could.

Despite the fact that Iran has been carrying out terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians through its Arab proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, for decades, Israel never attacked or threatened to attack Iran because of this. Israel's threats have been exclusively against Iran's nuclear weapons programs because of Iran's frequent threats to destroy the Jewish nation. Without nukes, Iran could not carry out its ambition to destroy the Jewish state, but with nukes and effective missiles, which it already has, it could literally wipe Israel off the map and there is reason to think it would despite that threat of an Israeli retaliatory nuclear strike against Iran.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

Analysts said not only Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani’s speech was the strongest against Israel, but also this is the first time that a prominent leader of the Islamic Republic openly suggests the use of nuclear weapon against the Jewish State.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAL

Before the Islamists took over in 1979, Israel and Iran had friendly relations, and even after the 1979 Islamist takeover, when Iran was in danger of being overrun by Iraq, Israel sold Iran, with US permission, thousands of Tow and Hawk missiles to stop Saddam's tanks and planes at a time when no other country in the world would sell Iran advanced weapons.

But Iran is not a rational actor. Its enmity towards Israel derives entirely from the fact that Israel is a Jewish nation. Given the horrific repression of dissent, or even of independent thinking, that has been going on in Iran since the revolution and the regularity with which Muslim nations in the region carry out atrocities against their own citizens or attack and ravage neighboring countries, it is clear that if Israel were a Muslim country the criticisms Iran and other Islamic extremists level against it would not even raise an Ayatollah's eyebrow.

do you think the Iranians want Palestine to be uninhabitable like Chernobyl Thats what a nuclear strike would do. They want Palestinians and other indigenous peoples to be able to live there side-by-side like they were prior to the "creation" of modern Israel.

A nuclear attack on Israel that would be sufficient to wipe it off the map would likely kill many Arabs, too, but it would not make the area uninhabitable. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not uninhabitable after being nuked by the US in WWII. Nuclear bombs are exploded above the target in order to gain the largest lethal zone, so the radiation, deadly at first, is rapidly dispersed. Nuclear explosions at ground level leave more lasting radiation damage.

Martyrdom in the service of holy causes, such as the destruction of the Jewish state, is a core value of the Iranian Islamists, and should, in their view, be considered a privilege by Muslims, so in the eyes of the Iranian zealots, the dead Arabs would either be willing martyrs or unworthy of consideration.

 

[Liability]

Right...let's not dare do any "pondering". Cuz not pondering is working out so well in the area.

I said zip, zero, zilch about not pondering.

What I said was that there is no valid rational coherent logical intelligent discernible reason for Israel to either confirm or deny the claim that they have nukes.

Ya..if it not for the obvious fact that Iran is going on the assumtion that Israel HAS nukes irrespective of the fascinating "mind games" put forward by the Jews. Thier "clever" strategy may well get them all cooked into radioactive dust. Iran is reported to be digging deep into the ground to construct nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities well below the ability of any known bombs to penetrate.

Only a total fool ignores where this is heading.

Pre emtive bombing of Iran in hopes of destroying it's capabilities looks like it will only piss them off and give them REAL justification to carry out a threat to nuke Israel. -

And to HouseGimp..I am not "defending" Iran. I could not care less about muslims..Persian or otherwise.

"Ya?"

Dude, get with the program. It's 2012. The English language has progressed.

Anyway, there is value in having your enemy NOT know how well armed you are -- or the converse.

If they are in the dark about it, the fuckers MIGHT just decide that prudence and caution REQUIRES them to assume the worst. It might cause them to delay or -- better yet -- to stay their own filthy hands.

If Iran has a "right" to defend itself -- as you have suggested -- then you surely must be of the opinion that any nation has that same right.

HOW they choose to proceed along those lines is a matter of their own notions of their own best interests.

IF Israel thinks that leaving their enemies in the dark is the tactic which offers them more advantage than disadvantage, that's their call.

 

[HUGGY]

If Israel has nukes, it has them for the same reasons other countries have them, as a last line of defense in the event the country is in danger of being overrun and as a possible deterrent to attacks. Arguably, Israel has a greater need for nukies than any of the other nuclear powers, since if the others lost a war they would be unlikely to be overrun by the enemy, but the 7,500,000 Israelis are surrounded by 500,000,000 Arabs and Iranians who would certainly erase the Jewish nation from the map if they could.

Despite the fact that Iran has been carrying out terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians through its Arab proxies, Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, for decades, Israel never attacked or threatened to attack Iran because of this. Israel's threats have been exclusively against Iran's nuclear weapons programs because of Iran's frequent threats to destroy the Jewish nation. Without nukes, Iran could not carry out its ambition to destroy the Jewish state, but with nukes and effective missiles, which it already has, it could literally wipe Israel off the map and there is reason to think it would despite that threat of an Israeli retaliatory nuclear strike against Iran.



RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAL

Before the Islamists took over in 1979, Israel and Iran had friendly relations, and even after the 1979 Islamist takeover, when Iran was in danger of being overrun by Iraq, Israel sold Iran, with US permission, thousands of Tow and Hawk missiles to stop Saddam's tanks and planes at a time when no other country in the world would sell Iran advanced weapons.

But Iran is not a rational actor. Its enmity towards Israel derives entirely from the fact that Israel is a Jewish nation. Given the horrific repression of dissent, or even of independent thinking, that has been going on in Iran since the revolution and the regularity with which Muslim nations in the region carry out atrocities against their own citizens or attack and ravage neighboring countries, it is clear that if Israel were a Muslim country the criticisms Iran and other Islamic extremists level against it would not even raise an Ayatollah's eyebrow.

do you think the Iranians want Palestine to be uninhabitable like Chernobyl Thats what a nuclear strike would do. They want Palestinians and other indigenous peoples to be able to live there side-by-side like they were prior to the "creation" of modern Israel.

A nuclear attack on Israel that would be sufficient to wipe it off the map would likely kill many Arabs, too, but it would not make the area uninhabitable. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not uninhabitable after being nuked by the US in WWII. Nuclear bombs are exploded above the target in order to gain the largest lethal zone, so the radiation, deadly at first, is rapidly dispersed. Nuclear explosions at ground level leave more lasting radiation damage.

Martyrdom in the service of holy causes, such as the destruction of the Jewish state, is a core value of the Iranian Islamists, and should, in their view, be considered a privilege by Muslims, so in the eyes of the Iranian zealots, the dead Arabs would either be willing martyrs or unworthy of consideration.

What strikes me as odd is that the perpensities of the Arabs were well established and Israel came into being well AFTER the advent of nuclear weapons. Just WHAT outcome did they expect by plopping thier little country right in the middle of the hornets nest?

It seems Jews are just as willing to die for thier "god given rights" as do Arabs and Persians.

May they ALL get thier god given wishes.

 

[HUGGY]

I said zip, zero, zilch about not pondering.

What I said was that there is no valid rational coherent logical intelligent discernible reason for Israel to either confirm or deny the claim that they have nukes.

Ya..if it not for the obvious fact that Iran is going on the assumtion that Israel HAS nukes irrespective of the fascinating "mind games" put forward by the Jews. Thier "clever" strategy may well get them all cooked into radioactive dust. Iran is reported to be digging deep into the ground to construct nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities well below the ability of any known bombs to penetrate.

Only a total fool ignores where this is heading.

Pre emtive bombing of Iran in hopes of destroying it's capabilities looks like it will only piss them off and give them REAL justification to carry out a threat to nuke Israel. -

And to HouseGimp..I am not "defending" Iran. I could not care less about muslims..Persian or otherwise.

"Ya?"

Dude, get with the program. It's 2012. The English language has progressed.

Anyway, there is value in having your enemy NOT know how well armed you are -- or the converse.

If they are in the dark about it, the fuckers MIGHT just decide that prudence and caution REQUIRES them to assume the worst. It might cause them to delay or -- better yet -- to stay their own filthy hands.

If Iran has a "right" to defend itself -- as you have suggested -- then you surely must be of the opinion that any nation has that same right.

HOW they choose to proceed along those lines is a matter of their own notions of their own best interests.

IF Israel thinks that leaving their enemies in the dark is the tactic which offers them more advantage than disadvantage, that's their call.

It's 2012? Who knew?

Hey! I'm just carrying a conversation, albeit obviously an awkward and undereducated one.

It's an interesting topic. Big explosions and OTHER people dying horrible deaths are ALWAYS interesting!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Israel is not part of the Non Proliferation treaty and is not subject to its rules. Iran is part of the NPT.

For whatever reason, Israel does not confirm or deny nukes. Their first president was part of the Manhattan project. They have a huge nuclear program for energy using reactors that do create bomb components as by products. South Africa allowed Israel to do tests for years. But Israel does not commit either way.

That said, they are in a very scary neighborhood with neighbors like Iran constantly making threats toward them. (Not the way Huggy put it in the OP. Most saber rattling between Israel and Iran is coming from Iran.)

They don't confirm the existence of the nukes, as that would give the Arab world justification for building them. They don't deny them either, as there is very good reason the Arab world should assume they are there and not try anything either. Anyone who wants to try an atom bomb on Israel should be assured that Israel has Hydrogen bombs to retaliate with. They have tested them. Israeli missiles are very accurate and reliable. The best the Iranians have done is 30% reliability and no accuracy at all.

Israel's attitude is they make no threats, but anyone who tries anything will regret it.